I Would Do Anything for Love (But I Won't Do That)

[Lose Remerswaal]

How far would you go in pursuit of Kevin Love via trade prior to the draft?
 
 
I know you want to throw in Jeff Green or someone else in the mix, but no one cares about Jeff Green, so don't make it more complicated than it already is

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

First off, great thread title.
 
I put down the #6/#17 plus Olynyk or Sullinger...but the math changes if Embiid (or somebody wholly unexpected like Exum) is there for the taking at #6.
 
Think I'd prefer Olynyk and Sullinger and the #17 and another first if Embiid could be taken at #6.

 

[teddykgb]

Thread title deserves kudos. Just perfect.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Thanks for the kind words.
 
Re: Embiid, that's why I mentioned (in passing) "before the draft".  Once the names start coming off the board, it makes these decisions even tougher, so I was hoping to avoid those permutations.

 

[ALiveH]

great thread title +1
they would have zero interest in rondo b/c they already have rubio
i would probably do any of the above but not more than any of the options you've listed.

 

[Buckner's Boots]

I am irrationally anti-Rondo. 

 

[BlackJack]

Nitpick:
 
Won't, not Wouldn't
 
/nitpick

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Great thread title too.
 
I picked #6 and Sullinger or Olynyk (would do Rondo too - shouldn't this poll allow for multiple choices?) but in reality, there's nothing I'd given up that the Wolves would take so I should have just voted "I don't want him."
 
I suspect if you eliminated all of the choices that are highway robbery for the Cs, the majority would end up "I don't want him."

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I was going to vote I don't want him, but for the 17th and Oly or Sully... I do it all day.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

I went with "more than that" but it's really just a different, not listed mix of assets:
 
#6
#17
Sully or Olynyk, and
Green (for the money, plus he's usable for MN) or a future, lower #1.
 
I don't give up Rondo if I'm getting Love.

 

[beezer]

I voted #6 and Sully or Olynyk, but I'd also throw in an additional future first rounder (would like to hold onto 17 if Love is on his way)

 

[Brickowski]

Of course I'm in the 5.26% The nuns told me that purgatory is just as bad as hell, except that if you pray really hard for two or three thousand years, God might reconsider. Unfortunately, Mormons don't believe in purgatory. There's a place where everyone goes before final resurrection, but there's no suffering until then.

 

[Reardon's Beard]

6, 17, and Sullinger can probably get it done.
 
Much rather send 6, 17, Olynyk and/or another future first.
 
If you can end up with Rondo, Green, Love, and Sullinger in Boston I'm quite happy to build on that.
 
EDIT: Then beg and plead for Pierce and Garnett to come back on vet minimum deals, send the trade exception to Houston so they can clear Lin and take LeBron out of the East, then mortgage the future for Anthony. I'll bet the numbers don't work but I can dream, right?

 

[ALiveH]

well that confirms brick's irrational bias against love if he won't even give up the #17 for him.

 

[Brickowski]

well that confirms brick's irrational bias against love if he won't even give up the #17 for him.

LOL, let's put it this way: I would not give up anything for Love that is close to what MN might actually be willing to take.

 

[ifmanis5]

Bulpett today saying Danny has cooled on Love quite a bit. Concerns on health is a big factor as well as overall fit. This is good news, I don't think he's a fit for what Boston is trying to do and watching the Cavs without him has been a revelation. His price/age/health equation has tipped to another direction and I'm glad Danny has re-evaluated him.
 

And from all indications, Love is not seen as a foundational player upon whom to build. Further, sources say his knee issues are bound to have an impact on his basketball longevity and effectiveness.

 
LINK: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2015/06/bulpett_why_celtics_pursuit_of_kevin_love_is_unlikely_to

 

[LoneWarrior1]

Bulpett today saying Danny has cooled on Love quite a bit. Concerns on health is a big factor as well as overall fit. This is good news, I don't think he's a fit for what Boston is trying to do and watching the Cavs without him has been a revelation. His price/age/health equation has tipped to another direction and I'm glad Danny has re-evaluated him.
 
 
 
 
LINK: http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/celtics_nba/boston_celtics/2015/06/bulpett_why_celtics_pursuit_of_kevin_love_is_unlikely_to

 
 
Do you think Danny is being candid or is he trying to drive down the price? Boston's stable full of assets could cause Cleveland to overreach in trade negotiations, especially after what they gave up to get Love into a Cavs uni.

 

[Cellar-Door]

 
 
Do you think Danny is being candid or is he trying to drive down the price? Boston's stable full of assets could cause Cleveland to overreach in trade negotiations, especially after what they gave up to get Love into a Cavs uni.

Stable full of assets is a bit generous. There probably isn't anything we have worth even 1/4 of what they gave up to get him.

 

[dabombdig]

Stable full of assets is a bit generous. There probably isn't anything we have worth even 1/4 of what they gave up to get him.

 
That's true.  It's also true that Cleveland under any circumstance will not be getting anywhere near the amount back for Love that they gave up.  There are a couple of scenarios at play where the C could (although unlikely) land Love.  
 

1. Love opts out and C's sign him to the max.  in this scenario the Cavs get zilch.
2. Sign and trade between the C's and Cavs.  The Cavs get maybe 50 cents on the dollar in this scenario.

 
Unless Cleveland truly believes that losing Love is addition by subtraction - the only winning play here for the Cavs is convincing him to pick up his option. 

 

[Devizier]

 
That's true.  It's also true that Cleveland under any circumstance will not be getting anywhere near the amount back for Love that they gave up.  There are a couple of scenarios at play where the C could (although unlikely) land Love.  
 

1. Love opts out and C's sign him to the max.  in this scenario the Cavs get zilch.
2. Sign and trade between the C's and Cavs.  The Cavs get maybe 50 cents on the dollar in this scenario.

 
Unless Cleveland truly believes that losing Love is addition by subtraction - the only winning play here for the Cavs is convincing him to pick up his option. 

 
Love can also opt-in, taking advantage of the escalating cap next year. In which case, the Cavaliers-Celtics deal would involve something like Wallace (ballast), Sullinger, and Turner. Or some combination of Wallace + role players to match Love's salary, plus a bunch of draft picks.
 
Honestly, the Lakers make a ton of more sense for Love than the Celtics, both financially and competitively.

 

[nighthob]

That's true.  It's also true that Cleveland under any circumstance will not be getting anywhere near the amount back for Love that they gave up.  There are a couple of scenarios at play where the C could (although unlikely) land Love.

• 
  
• Love opts out and C's sign him to the max.  in this scenario the Cavs get zilch.
• Sign and trade between the C's and Cavs.  The Cavs get maybe 50 cents on the dollar in this scenario.

Unless Cleveland truly believes that losing Love is addition by subtraction - the only winning play here for the Cavs is convincing him to pick up his option.

Or just resigning him to a max deal, which preserves his Bird Rights, making him happier and easier to trade next season if they decide to move him and not Kyrie (and given that Irving's contract is a giant bargain I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him traded to Philly or LA on draft night).

 

[dabombdig]

I am not sure there is any scenario in which he can be traded on draft night.  If opts out he is a free agent and if he opts in that means he is resigned and can't be traded for sometime (I think).  I am no CBA expert, but Love's situation does not give the Cavs much control at all.  He can really do whatever he wants.

 

[nighthob]

If Love picks up his option he can be traded at any time, including draft night. But if you reread what I actually wrote, I was talking about Irving. He's locked in for four years at bargain rates, so even with the impact injury he's still going to have a lot of trade value and I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him LA or Philly bound on draft night.

 

[dabombdig]

Thanks for the clarification on Love and sorry for my inept reading skillz.

 

[lexrageorge]

If Love picks up his option he can be traded at any time, including draft night. But if you reread what I actually wrote, I was talking about Irving. He's locked in for four years at bargain rates, so even with the impact injury he's still going to have a lot of trade value and I wouldn't be at all shocked to see him LA or Philly bound on draft night.

Why would the Cavs give up the guy that's signed for a bargain deal and has more upside in his future?  Makes zero sense. 

 

[nighthob]

Because after four years in the NBA he probably doesn't have a lot of upside left and there aren't enough FGA for Love and Irving, meaning one of them is going to be outbound eventually. And one of them has significantly more trade value and is easier to replace in the lineup because of the position he plays.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Because after four years in the NBA he probably doesn't have a lot of upside left and there aren't enough FGA for Love and Irving, meaning one of them is going to be outbound eventually. And one of them has significantly more trade value and is easier to replace in the lineup because of the position he plays.

I agree with this. The PG position in the NBA is by definition a complementary role and when LeBron is on your team handling the majority of playmaking responsibilities an individual talent such as Kyrie is rendered virtually worthless. The Cavs are what, 5-0 in the playoffs with Kyrie sidelined? I wouldn't stoop to a Dellanadova level for big minutes over 82 games but you can certainly survive with someone like Jarrett Jack replacing Kyrie on this particular team over 82 games and the results wouldn't be negatively affected. This is coming from someone who feels Kyrie is one of the leagues most dominant offensive players.

 

[Swedgin]

I agree with this. The PG position in the NBA is by definition a complementary role and when LeBron is on your team handling the majority of playmaking responsibilities an individual talent such as Kyrie is rendered virtually worthless. The Cavs are what, 5-0 in the playoffs with Kyrie sidelined? I wouldn't stoop to a Dellanadova level for big minutes over 82 games but you can certainly survive with someone like Jarrett Jack replacing Kyrie on this particular team over 82 games and the results wouldn't be negatively affected. This is coming from someone who feels Kyrie is one of the leagues most dominant offensive players.

I think the CAVs would be nuts to pick Love over Kryie, absent insight into/concerns about his future play given his injury history.   Kyrie is a PG only in the sense that he defends (to the extent that he defends anyone) other PGs.    Kyrie is a scorer who happens to a point guard sized body.   I generally buy into the conventional wisdom that you should not be build around score first point guards and even think that was borne out to a large degree in the case of Kyrie's tenure with CAV's pre-Lebron.   But the conventional wisdom breaks down when the scoring 1 is playing with an elite playmaker/passer at the 4 
 
To your point, while the CAV's can survive now with Jack or Dellie playing big minutes, how long do we think Lebron can continue to log these kinds of minutes and put up these kinds of numbers?  His playoff performance is not sustainable over 82 games, let alone over 82 games three years from now.   If I am the CAVs I can see a long term future where Lebron relinquishes more and more of the scoring burden to Irving and remains the primary distributor, playmaker, running the offense from the elbow and the post.     
 
Finally, in terms of an efficient use of resources, if Love is going to function as basically a spot up shooter in the offense, that is a skill you can easily acquire at a much cheaper price.   Guys who can get to rim and knock down 3's at 40+% are few and far between.   

 

[Cellar-Door]

If you are deciding between Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love, it isn't much of a competition. Kyrie is the far superior asset. Younger, cheaper, healthier. For Cleveland it is even more stark, since Love's game doesn't do much to complement the rest of the team (particularly Lebron).

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If you are deciding between Kyrie Irving and Kevin Love, it isn't much of a competition. Kyrie is the far superior asset. Younger, cheaper, healthier. For Cleveland it is even more stark, since Love's game doesn't do much to complement the rest of the team (particularly Lebron).

Kyrie is injury prone himself so I wouldn't give him the healthy advantage over Love. He's also an iso PG who won't have the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter of playoff games which is why I feel he is easily replaceable by the Cavs. Sure he's a huge asset in the regular season but if we are talking championships the regular season doesn't matter much and that is where Kyrie's value is to the Cavs not the playoffs.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Kyrie is injury prone himself so I wouldn't give him the healthy advantage over Love. He's also an iso PG who won't have the ball in his hands in the 4th quarter of playoff games which is why I feel he is easily replaceable by the Cavs. Sure he's a huge asset in the regular season but if we are talking championships the regular season doesn't matter much and that is where Kyrie's value is to the Cavs not the playoffs.

The injury concern with Love is that some people think his knee is going to be a chronic problem, robbing him of athleticism and costing him games for the rest of his career. 
Even if the presence of Lebron minimizes Kyrie's playoff impact, I think his regular season impact is much bigger than Love's and his playoff impact is bigger as well. One technique that has been effective for CLE is posting up Lebron. Kyrie is a nice fit with that offense even if Lebron brings the ball up because of his 3pt shooting which is much better than Love's. Also I think bad PG D is easier to cover up than not having a rim protector. Thompson is a better PF for the Cavs to me than Love. He doesn't need the ball and he plays pretty good D. Most importantly, Lebron only has so many minutes of being the entire offense in him. A PG who can penetrate and bring the ball up lets him get rest and reduce wear on his body.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  15s15 seconds ago
Sources: If Kevin Love goes forward with visits in July, expect Boston to sell him on pursuing group of Love, Robin Lopez and...Paul Pierce.
 

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Aaannnd yuck.

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA  18s19 seconds ago
Cleveland remains the frontrunner to sign Love to a five-year, $100M-plus extension, but Love could be willing to hear out Celtics, Lakers.
 

 

[mikeot]

Then there's the latest Sherrod Blakely musing http://www.csnne.com/boston-celtics/report-celtics-pursue-kevin-love-and-reunion-with-paul-pierce