Ime Udoka suspended for the 22-23 season
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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I don’t agree with SAS’s take because it’s not clear how anyone benefits. He doesn’t really answer the “why” of it. Celtics just want to push out an awesome Black coach because they’re threatened by his powers of seduction in ways they wouldn’t be if he were White? I dunno, man. I think it’s something othe than that. Everyone who knows what happened truly seems stricken by it.
Racism is real but that’s not the only lens. Consent is a big f-in deal. And complicated for many men - me included - to fully grasp. I know it’s obvious but it’s also really complex.
Nobody owes us the real story of what happened but I wish they’d tell us because I’m a yenta who likes to know things and tell other people.
Thank for letting me have my obvious take.
Racism is real but that’s not the only lens. Consent is a big f-in deal. And complicated for many men - me included - to fully grasp. I know it’s obvious but it’s also really complex.
Nobody owes us the real story of what happened but I wish they’d tell us because I’m a yenta who likes to know things and tell other people.
Thank for letting me have my obvious take.
There was a zero percent chance this information was going to stay a secret.
This whole "consensual" thing is just a red herring. If Ime got suspended for a consensual relationship with another woman in the organization then the woman also would have received some sort of "punishment". So, obviously, it's more than that. The other weird aspect of "consensual" is that if it doesn't include Nia "consenting" then it's not a consensual relationship so it was still inappropriate.
I don’t think that’s true. There’s clearly a power dynamic at play between an NBA head coach and a team staffer which is why teams don’t want personal relationships between employees with such a disparity of status in the organization. It doesn’t mean that the interactions between the two weren’t consensual. Who even knows how the relationship started? It’s clearly wrong but it can also still be consensual. It’s pretty common in these situations for the person with the higher level of responsibility/authority to be the one to face the punishment and it’s fairly obvious why that is.
@Preacher posted while I was writing this, and this repeats some of the key points, but anyway...
The whole "consensual" thing is a red herring because Ime held a position of considerable authority and power in the organization, and it is unclear who if anyone in the organization could have an actual consensual relationship with him. Even if you disagree with that, with almost anyone in the organization, there is at the very least the perception of a conflict of interest, the possibility of damage to the workplace when things go badly, etc. This is why workplace relationships are presumably addressed by organizational policies. Nia Long is not employed by the Celtics (as far as I know) and her consent is not relevant for the punishment or anything else about how the team handles the situation.
The whole "consensual" thing is a red herring because Ime held a position of considerable authority and power in the organization, and it is unclear who if anyone in the organization could have an actual consensual relationship with him. Even if you disagree with that, with almost anyone in the organization, there is at the very least the perception of a conflict of interest, the possibility of damage to the workplace when things go badly, etc. This is why workplace relationships are presumably addressed by organizational policies. Nia Long is not employed by the Celtics (as far as I know) and her consent is not relevant for the punishment or anything else about how the team handles the situation.
Yeah, poor her. She only fucked a guy that was engaged and then interacted with or on behalf of his fiancee on multiple occasions. The level of disrespect both of them showed Nia is on another level.
Even if it were to come out that Ime made unwanted advances on her after their affair, it doesn't absolve her from pulling the powermove of fucking Nia's fiancee and then smiling to her face while booking her tickets to Boston.
There's enough shit here for plenty of people to get the seconds they deserve.
Consent isn’t being used in the media reports in the precise, HR law way it would be applying the Celtics policies and as being described here. It’s being used to distinguish from coercion/assault as applied to any relationship. Which is more evidence that the leak came from Ime’s side. They clearly wanted to paint a picture that was not predatory in a criminal sense.
You mean that we're using the concept of "consent" with nuance and depth rather than as a blunt object? If a male head coach in a women's sport makes a pass at one of his players, is that consensual? If someone in charge of hiring makes suggestive comments toward a potential employee, is that consensual? I would label those as coercion, but I think it's been made pretty clear that some members of the media have to take their collective heads out of their collective asses on this subject.
I do not know the league rules on this, but I am assuming that while he is under contract to the Celtics even if under suspension, no other team can come knocking on his door and trying to hire him. If they fire him, then I think that he can be hired. ( though the league might say something). I wonder if the leakage is an attempt to goad the team into firing him so he can get back into the league faster or collect a settlement from the team to end his contract. It is also a good tactic to get everything out into the open, turn it into a messy “he said, she said” situation and put it into the rearview mirror asap rather then have him twist in the wind for a year.
What firm is representing him? Dewey, Cheatum and Howe?
What firm is representing him? Dewey, Cheatum and Howe?
I think we’re using the concept of consent to distinguish this from criminal activity. I find it interesting that when we create hypotheticals, the person in power is always the male using his authority and position of power over the powerless female. If a male NBA or even college player was sleeping with his female head coach, would you feel the same way, that she coerced him into the relationship?
Also, what if the person trying to get the job started flirting with the hiring representative and asked that individual out for drinks and the interviewer acquiesced? I think in both scenarios the person in the higher authority position faces disciplinary action.
1. Yep the leakage is about $$$.
2. IME is repped by CAA
3. Suspension with no pay means no $$$ to CAA or IME this year
4. A lingering suspension makes IME look toxic + hurts his future earnings
5. CAA wants IME to get fired so they can collect the 2yrs left on the contract
6. CAA will try its best to pressure Boston into firing IME but will probably eventually settle with a resignation
7. CAA clients: Woj, Steven A Smith, Jay Williams. They broke this and have been universally anti-Boston throughout the process. They will continue with the pressure and will keep on using "Consensual Relationship" while also trying to smear the woman, Brad, Wyc, Boston/Race trope
Maybe I've watched All the President's Men one or two many times but following the $$$ usually works in these situations.
There is no fucking way that TMZ story is the whole story. If it is--and it's not--the Cs response would be baffling.
Doesn’t seem like they’re even trying to say it’s the whole story. Just (unfortunately) essentially identifying a woman he had an affair with. Obviously there is much more.
Something tells me Matt Barnes wouldn’t have backtracked and talked about how disturbing this whole thing is because the woman handled Nia’s travel arrangements.
I would say yes. I also intentionally didn't assign genders in my second example.
Yes, I agree. The person in authority has the job to shut down any discussion that's even coming close to heading in the wrong direction.
Pretty sure we’re on the same page. And CAA or whomever is addressing this primarily in the realm of public opinion/perception (which will make it easier for another team to hire their client), while the Celts have to be sensitive both to the PR and the HR legal issues.
In addition to Matt Barnes, the silence from the players (and I include C's players, and everywhere else) is deafening.
Ok, we’re obviously on the same page. I’m kind of interested in this topic because my wife is in the foundational stages of a paper (thesis?) on sexual harassment in the workplace, specifically in the military. Some of her thoughts are that many of the protections put in place are designed or really more unequally applied to protect women thus degrading women’s agency or implying women have less agency than men. That’s sort of a broad overview she’s working towards but I’m sure will be boiled down a bit more succinctly than I’m stating.
This is painting a large and respected agency with a pretty broad brush. I suspect that it's more likely that an individual with a vested interest in Udoka's career is the leaker.
That's interesting, and I hope her project bears some fruit and results in some positive changes, or at least causes some people and organizations to think about their policies.
the leaker may be a single vested individual, but that doesn’t really explain SAS’s vitriol or Woj’s continuing focus on ‘consensual.’ Or why the obvious (perception of ?) conflict of interest never gets articulated
Wait, you don't think IME's agent (and the NBA team at CAA) is working on this situation 24/7 since Thursday?
setting a precedent by suspending a Head Coach for a year may get the attention of the lawyer/agent that is losing their mgmt fee
https://www.caa.com/sportstalent/basketball
scroll down to Broadcasting. Controlling the narrative is part of their pitch to clients:
"CAA's team of broadcasting agents helps secure opportunities for clients across all networks and platforms."
I’m curious. What is it about agents in general and CAA in particular, that gives you faith in their ethical standards? Their entire reason for existence is the promotion of their clients ( and their own) welfare. Leaking information from one.client to another would seem to be in both clients benefit. As for manipulating the media… that is all in a day’s work.
I think coach/player - or anyone/player - is a complicated dynamic. Jayson Tatum has more power, and Malik Fitts (while he was here) less, than just about anyone else in the Celtics organization.
Whatever fee CAA may lose by the suspension (may be nothing if Ime paid the commission upfront) is pretty insignificant to them in the grand scheme of things.
And if CAA is really pushing the "consensual" piece to try to do damage control - and I'm still not convinced this is coming from Ime's camp - they aren't doing him any favors. Seems to me that Ime has way more problems than his next coaching gig, assuming harassment was one of the policies being violated.
Why do the leaks matter? And if anyone can ID the source - and we will because SoSH is the Jessica Fletcher of internet sleuthing - what does that mean?
What is the point of this exercise?
What is the point of this exercise?
More than the fee, Layers/Agents don't like precedence being set when it comes to teams not paying out contracts. Has a team suspended a Head Coach for a year before?
100% agree, IME has way bigger problems if harassment is involved. Wyc did say "Multiple Violations", so it sounds like more than a "Consensual Relationship". That still doesn't prevent some in the media of trying to spin the narrative.
It's also CAA's job to protect IME's interests by all means at their disposal.
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I wonder what they heard Ime Udoka say over the Ring.
If he said "Come out, hot married lady! We had sex against your better judgement and I demand we have sex again! This is what helps me plan my basketball!" and then he took out his iPhone and played "Come out Rosalita" by Bruce Springsteen to underscore his point, then that's an open and shut case. That would explain why people in the know are shocked by the details.
This is just speculation.
If he said "Come out, hot married lady! We had sex against your better judgement and I demand we have sex again! This is what helps me plan my basketball!" and then he took out his iPhone and played "Come out Rosalita" by Bruce Springsteen to underscore his point, then that's an open and shut case. That would explain why people in the know are shocked by the details.
This is just speculation.
Just watched Rich Eisen’s take after the Celtics press conference on Friday and he’s normally very sober and progressive and god damn he went after the Celtics for not being more forthright about the whole thing. Jesus. Is this where we are now that even guys like Rich cannot deduce what’s going on and just want to bury the Celtics for not telling all. This is deflated footballs all over again. Use your heads. Teams favored to win titles don’t sack their coaches over minor stuff.
edit: rich called it a consensual affair and that we should all feel for all parties involved and this was Friday afternoon.
edit: rich called it a consensual affair and that we should all feel for all parties involved and this was Friday afternoon.
Whomever provided the first leaks they really set the narrative, much like with deflated footballs and there is now a hell of hill to climb to overturn or even poke holes in the narrative.
edit: my friend who is in PR at a pretty high level always says be first and nothing else matters/
edit: my friend who is in PR at a pretty high level always says be first and nothing else matters/
During the presser, Brad/Wyc seemed annoyed with the media leaks, the narrative, and social media posts.
My takeaway is that they were very upset at people on the internet playing detective and doxxing female Celtics staffers in the process.
I didn't interpret it as a call to arms to find the leakers and out them but maybe I missed something. If anything, I think that the Cs front office would prefer that fans refrain from doing their own investigation about anything around this story given the human impact to all those involved.
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Seems like several prominent media members will regret these takes.
Also, the media cares exclusively about access to info; they’re uninterested in giving quarter to concerns that the team has to account for, like privacy and legal issues.
Wyc/Brad carefully parsed their words. BUT Wyc made it clear that it was "Multiple Violations". Yet somehow after the press conference ESPN still feels obliged to run with the headline "Consensual Relationship".
You don't have to be a Daniel Kaffee here to see how hard the sports media is working an anti-Boston narrative. I think it's fair to question why and discuss that on the "IME suspended..." thread.
Highly doubt Wyc/Brad are all that concerned about the Cellar since there are over 1100 posts on this thread of nobody doxxing a female staffer here (and quite the opposite). I mean we have posters here apologizing for even the mere suggestion that there was some IME/gray area on Day 1
If you want to criticize the Cs, criticize them for not just firing him flat out. The fact that they're getting killed for leaks they clearly didn't make is driving me nuts.
Clearly, ESPN and others in the media are overplaying the "consensual" angle. At the same time, viewers would infer "non-consensual" to mean "rape", which is not at all close to what happened here (or Ime would have been fired immediately). And ESPN cannot easily say "harassment", as nobody has come out and specifically said the relationship was workplace harassment, even if it almost certainly was.
But, yes, ESPN could do better to highlight the "multiple violations" every time they say "consensual".
