Ime Udoka suspended for the 22-23 season

AlNipper49

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Sorry if this has been covered, but most corporations' code of conduct governs contractors as well as employees.



Not that this matters anymore, but your company's policy is lenient. My company has a ban on relationships between senior/subordinate and any intra-company relationship is supposed to be disclosed.
I sit in way too many policy and compliance meetings than is healthy for any one person. I've never seen a non-fraternization rules that does not include consultants or vendors. The folks writing these things know what they are doing - their job is to protect the organization from legal fallout. They're not going to say "well it's not quite as bad banging a vendor as a co-worker, so let's leave it out". There is absolutely no incentive to not be as broad as possible.

Don't like the rule? Quit. Otherwise, there is a universe of people that probably do not represent 99.9999999999% of the people that would be covered in such a clause that you can bang freely.
 

tbb345

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So I’m not sure how much of this is out there yet, and I’m working so I wasn’t able to read the last few posts yet.

This is related to a woman that previously worked as Pagliuca’s assistant. She is a very close family friend of his. She was no longer with the team, but working in a contracted capacity doing business analysis. She is married with children and the personal relationship with the owner is a major factor in the response. Ime may be out of here when all is said and done, but he said to brace for a lengthy suspension. All I’ve got right now but it is from somebody directly connected to the team.
I really hope that this isn’t the whole story…if it is then what an absolutely embarrassing response by the Celtics and Pagliuca specifically
 

Myt1

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Why does it matter if it was a contractor working for the team as opposed to permanent staff? Aren't cheerleaders and probably lots of other people associated with the organization considered independent contractors? Wouldn't any organizational guidance on relationships or what could be considered inappropriate behavior include them?
In terms of written policy, usually. I can see a shade of difference in the potential power imbalance here, though, which could have implications for how moral or immoral we deem the behavior (wrong because proscribed, vs. degree of inherent wrongness).
 

lexrageorge

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I really hope that this isn’t the whole story…if it is then what an absolutely embarrassing response by the Celtics and Pagliuca specifically
If she was hired by Pagliuca to do work (business analysis) for the team, the team's response would be consistent with the team's policies regarding employees and contractors. It's one of those cases where the details matter a lot.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Sorry if this has been covered, but most corporations' code of conduct governs contractors as well as employees.



Not that this matters anymore, but your company's policy is lenient. My company has a ban on relationships between senior/subordinate and any intra-company relationship is supposed to be disclosed.
For what’s it’s worth, and I that’s close to nothing, my company’s policy is similar to @Sandwich Pick in that senior/subordinate relationships are discouraged but ultimately fine if disclosed to upper mgmt/HR.
 

tbb345

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If she was hired by Pagliuca to do work (business analysis) for the team, the team's response would be consistent with the team's policies regarding employees and contractors.
Admittedly I am parsing what Caspir posted but it seems to me that he was intimating that it was more of a personal vendetta since Pagliuca was close to the family than anything to do sigh standards and practices.
However, I could be completely wrong and misreading what Caspir wrote
 

E5 Yaz

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Admittedly I am parsing what Caspir posted but it seems to me that he was intimating that it was more of a personal vendetta since Pagliuca was close to the family than anything to do sigh standards and practices.
However, I could be completely wrong and misreading what Caspir wrote
Yeah, it's very muddled and there's a hidden insinuation in the close personal friend aspect that muddles it even more
 

Deathofthebambino

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I'm baffled by this on so many levels. First, I cannot understand what type of consensual and legal relationship constitutes a one-year suspension. Second, I don't understand how something so egregious that it constitutes a one-year suspension is not better served by terminating employment. Third, I'm not sure how it benefits the players, the coach, the interim coach and the whole program to have this hanging over its head rather than a clean break. Fourth, I do not understand how the C's have allowed this to just get slow leaked out over the past 12-hours without so much as a team statement. The team has absolutely botched this and I hate to imagine how this plays in the locker room, particularly following all the off-season drama with leaks around JB.

To be clear, I'm not saying the team is not justified in taking action against Ime. I don't know enough to even begin to form an opinion about that. My comment is more that they are seemingly bungling the handling of this situation in a myriad of ways, regardless of what the details of the situation may be.
I agree with every word of this.

Especially the part where if it's worth a one year suspension, it's worth a firing. This just makes no sense. Maybe they can call the Red Sox and take some tips from the Alex Cora situation. It's working out great.
 

Jimbodandy

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For what’s it’s worth, and I that’s close to nothing, my company’s policy is similar to @Sandwich Pick in that senior/subordinate relationships are discouraged but ultimately fine if disclosed to upper mgmt/HR.
I've never worked anywhere where intimate subordinate relationships were allowed, and I'm in my 50s. I've also never worked anywhere where you disclose who you're sleeping with.

In my 20s, half the people that I knew were banging coworkers (including me), but anyone sleeping with a superior in the org was keeping it way on the DL. It wasn't always enforced, but it was always policy and for good reasons.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I’m not saying it wasn’t a bad decision. It was but you’re making him out to be Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby

And to me the degree of the infraction is reduced if she perused him. Although to be honest I don’t think she did anything wrong and while I think what he did was wrong it’s minor in nature.

If she declared the relationship was totally consensual with absolutely no pressure or manipulation (directly, implied or otherwise) then it’s not the earth shattering infraction all the puritans with pitch forks in this thread are making it out to be.
One of the great things about this place is that there are subject matter experts in just about everything and when we stop and read them, we can learn a lot.
 

lexrageorge

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For what’s it’s worth, and I that’s close to nothing, my company’s policy is similar to @Sandwich Pick in that senior/subordinate relationships are discouraged but ultimately fine if disclosed to upper mgmt/HR.
Manager/subordinate relationships are strongly discouraged where I work and can lead to reassignment or termination of the manager. I wouldn't call it a blanket ban, but it's clear the manager will be subject to action. And there is no requirement to disclose intra-company relationships (that would be weird, to be honest). However, the company does have special policies for the top execs regarding fraternization .
 

NDame616

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The follow up he tweeted seems bad and isn’t something I think he should be joking about.


“Ask yourself if it’s consensual then why the suspension and the length!!!”
I think he's implying it was consensual and the "punishment doesn't fit the crime" and he's "wondering" why that is (ie the rich white owner of the Cs is suspending his black employee for banging his friends wife)
 

JCizzle

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I think he's implying it was consensual and the "punishment doesn't fit the crime" and he's "wondering" why that is (ie the rich white owner of the Cs is suspending his black employee for banging his friends wife)
Ahhh yeah, that makes much more sense.
 

nattysez

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Manager/subordinate relationships are strongly discouraged where I work and can lead to reassignment or termination of the manager. I wouldn't call it a blanket ban, but it's clear the manager will be subject to action. And there is no requirement to disclose intra-company relationships (that would be weird, to be honest). However, the company does have special policies for the top execs regarding fraternization .
If you're the head coach, you're not allowed to bang people in the organization, full stop. The head coach has sufficient power that any "consensual" relationship will have a problematic power dynamic, legally.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Manager/subordinate relationships are strongly discouraged where I work and can lead to reassignment or termination of the manager. I wouldn't call it a blanket ban, but it's clear the manager will be subject to action. And there is no requirement to disclose intra-company relationships (that would be weird, to be honest). However, the company does have special policies for the top execs regarding fraternization .
Yep, manager/subordinate relationships are strictly taboo where I work.

And by taboo, I mean "As the only owner/manager, my wife would fucking kill me."
 

lexrageorge

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I agree with every word of this.

Especially the part where if it's worth a one year suspension, it's worth a firing. This just makes no sense. Maybe they can call the Red Sox and take some tips from the Alex Cora situation. It's working out great.
The Cora suspension was coming from the league, not the team, so not exactly analogous.

If the worst of the rumors are true, the one year suspension may be the most expeditious way to essentially show Ime the door without (a) getting entangled in a messy lawsuit; (b) not totally piss off their top players, which matters a ton in the NBA.
 

RSN Diaspora

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If the worst of the rumors are true, the one year suspension may be the most expeditious way to essentially show Ime the door without (a) getting entangled in a messy lawsuit; (b) not totally piss off their top players, which matters a ton in the NBA.
Perhaps, but assuming validity to what has been leaked out (and I'm not saying we should), I suspect it will be damned near impossible to thread the needle of punishment being appropriate but the level of said punishment being too harsh, which is a totally realistic scenario. The Celtics have zero margin for error here.
 

NDame616

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I'm guessing they're all working out the language of the resignation /legal issues/making sure he can't resign here and go to the Nets this weekend. That's probably why it's silence from all parties
 

Jimbodandy

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If you're the head coach, you're not allowed to bang people in the organization, full stop. The head coach has sufficient power that any "consensual" relationship will have a problematic power dynamic, legally.
Seems like we're overstating the power that the head coach has here. The VP of finance and the owner seem to have more, for example.
 

Van Everyman

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Globe says a 1-year suspension is pretty much a done deal:

Celtics to suspend coach Ime Udoka for a year, will make Joe Mazzulla interim coach
By Adam Himmelsbach Globe Staff,Updated September 22, 2022, 17 minutes ago

Celtics coach Ime Udoka is expected to receive a one-year suspension because of a consensual relationship with a female staff member, according to a league source. Boston assistant coach Joe Mazzulla has been informed that he will guide the team in place of Udoka, the source said.
The Celtics are expected to issue a statement on the situation as soon as Thursday.
It is a jarring development for a team that came within two wins of an NBA title last season and enters this season as the favorite to win the championship. Udoka led the Celtics to the NBA Finals last year in his first season as an NBA head coach and finished fourth in the voting for coach of the year.
Mazzulla was hired by former Celtics president of basketball operations Danny Ainge to be an assistant on then coach Brad Stevens’s staff in 2019 and has quickly ascended. He interviewed for the Utah Jazz opening in June before eventually being promoted to a bench role on Udoka’s staff.
The Celtics are scheduled to hold media day on Monday before opening training camp at the Auerbach Center on Tuesday.
 

jasail

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I'm guessing they're all working out the language of the resignation /legal issues/making sure he can't resign here and go to the Nets this weekend. That's probably why it's silence from all parties
Except there is not silence from all parties. One party (the C's) is seemingly slow leaking vague but tantalizing tidbits Woj in a manner that is pretty obviously designed to damage the reputation of one party (Ime). Regardless of whether or not the players agree with the outcome (i.e., 1-year suspension), they can't like the way it is being handled by the org. After all the leaks with JB and Durant this summer, it's not a good look and I'd be shocked if we don't start hearing about players looking to go elsewhere.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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I think he's implying it was consensual and the "punishment doesn't fit the crime" and he's "wondering" why that is (ie the rich white owner of the Cs is suspending his black employee for banging his friends wife)
Banging the wife of the coworker buddy of the owner of the team you work for seems like one of those things that regardless of fairness or whatever the code of conduct says you should know it's not going to work out well for you.
 

benhogan

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Admittedly I am parsing what Caspir posted but it seems to me that he was intimating that it was more of a personal vendetta since Pagliuca was close to the family than anything to do sigh standards and practices.
However, I could be completely wrong and misreading what Caspir wrote
quite the conundrum for Virtue Signalers
 

bosockboy

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Banging the wife of the coworker buddy of the owner of the team you work for seems like one of those things that regardless of fairness or whatever the code of conduct says you should know it's not going to work out well for you.
Yep he’s a good looking, successful millionaire and can have any woman he wants. Home wrecking within the Celtics family is incredibly poor judgment.
 

jose melendez

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Globe also says it was a consensual relationship with a female staffer.

I think this is weird as fuck if that's all there is to it.
 

NDame616

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Except there is not silence from all parties. One party (the C's) is seemingly slow leaking vague but tantalizing tidbits Woj in a manner that is pretty obviously designed to damage the reputation of one party (Ime).
I should say OFFICIAL statement. But also we don't know the source of the leaks. The players were told about this a few days ago apparently. Leaks could be from a disgruntled player
 

ifmanis5

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Just a total mess and bad judgment all around. This season is a disaster before it even started. Media day is Monday. What a circus.
 

lexrageorge

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Admittedly I am parsing what Caspir posted but it seems to me that he was intimating that it was more of a personal vendetta since Pagliuca was close to the family than anything to do sigh standards and practices.
However, I could be completely wrong and misreading what Caspir wrote
Sure, if he had an affair of a close family friend of Pagliuca, and this friend otherwise had no connection to the Celtics, then, yes, any suspension would be excessive. But it's generally accepted that doing so could be career limiting in many workplaces.

Globe also says it was a consensual relationship with a female staffer.

I think this is weird as fuck if that's all there is to it.
It does go back to the team's policies regarding workplace relationships, policies that Ime willingly agreed to when he was hired. "Staffer" could mean many things, and depending upon details (which absolutely matter), the bolded above could be doing too much work.
 

nattysez

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Sorry to repeat myself, but I am incredibly disappointed in the Celtics for (1) leaking this or (2) not having public statements prepared in the event this leaked.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I agree with every word of this.

Especially the part where if it's worth a one year suspension, it's worth a firing. This just makes no sense. Maybe they can call the Red Sox and take some tips from the Alex Cora situation. It's working out great.
Just speculating, but I would guess there's legal/employment law reasons...or possibly player-relations reasons...they are doing a year rather than firing him. I agree with those who say that from a team perspective the line between what would qualify for one vs the other is very hard to discern.
 

BigJimEd

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I should say OFFICIAL statement. But also we don't know the source of the leaks. The players were told about this a few days ago apparently. Leaks could be from a disgruntled player
Yeah, seems like whoever is leaking wants to put pressure on the Celtics.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
She's not the only female staffer. Someone tweeted a corporate directory and there were at least two more, with some fingers being pointed at one of the other two based on video 'evidence' of how he acted around her after the Miami game 7.

I'm going with he'll resign.
Lot of Twitter scuttle it involves Kathleen Lynch. If true would eliminate the ownership wrinkle.
That's who I was referring to a few pages back.