In Case You Missed It - 2004 Docuseries on Netflix

4 6 3 DP

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Oct 24, 2001
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21 years later and my white hot hatred of Grady Little is just as passionate. Really fun watch- wish they could have spent a little more time on the foulke/Clark ab in game 6 and dlowe in game 7, but these are minor nits.
 

54thMA

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I just watched all three episodes rapid fire, part one was a tough watch, reliving all of that really sucked.

Great line by John Henry about Grady; classic and so true.

After episode one, it gets a lot better, Tito was awesome, his crack about sabermetrics was great. The part in episode three at 51:02;.....................wow, what a nutpunch, reminded me a lot of the moment in "The reverse of the curse of the Bambino" when all the participants were speechless.

That moment and Tek sharing his thoughts about Wake were really tough to watch, very emotional.

A great watch.
 
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Hendu for Kutch

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I just watched all 3 episodes in one sitting. It went incredibly in depth but at the same time it felt like the just glossed over or entirely skipped a bunch of things. I had a big smile at the end for sure, but it felt like they maybe went too deep in some areas at the expense of others.

Also, with all the hagiography of the '04 team and particularly the ALCS, how have I never heard about the microphone in the ceiling at Yankee Stadium?
 

CoolPapaBellhorn

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21 years later and my white hot hatred of Grady Little is just as passionate.
It's funny, the quotes from Werner and Henry about ten minutes in just dumping on Grady actually made me feel some sympathy. Here we are, in a documentary celebrating the greatest comeback in baseball history and the greatest achievement of this ownership group (the group who hired Grady, by the way), and you're going to take these shots at the former manager, when that loss is just as big a part of the story as Schilling, Foulke, Francona, et al?

And then by the end of the episode I landed at the exact same place as you: screw Grady, the pot shots were completely justified, I wish they had fired him after the 7th inning of game seven.
 

PedroisGod

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Aug 30, 2002
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What a fucking asshole. How hard is it to show a little contrition? Not that it matters anymore, but still.
The idea that he's incredulous about the idea that he made a mistake is ridiculous. And while Timlin in the 8th and Williamson in the 9th is what he should have done, there's a part of me that can justify keeping Pedro in there to start the 8th. Obviously it's different knowing what we know now in 2024 about third time through the order and pitch counts, but I can see how in Grady's head the bullpen was the same bullpen that struggled to start the year, even though they were good in the postseason. I can understand the idea of "Well, I'm going to go with my ace." What I can't defend at all is how Embree wasn't put in to face Matsui, if not Bernie. That he was allowed to stay in after those two and face Posada borders on criminal.
 
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tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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Just to make everyone mad again:

Timlin thru game 6: 8.1 IP, 1 H, 0 BB, 10 K, 0 R
Embree thru game 6: 6.1 IP, 4 H, 0 BB, 1 K, 0 R
SWill thru game 6: 8.0 IP, 3 H, 3 BB, 14 K, 1 R
Combined: 22.2 IP, 8 H, 3 BB, 25 K, 1 R
 
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Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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I get "going by your gut"... I really do. Really smart people, or just above average smarts people, take whatever information is available... bury in their library- however unorganized and messy or not- and then call upon that combined knowledge and experience and then make a call and call that intuition. Good intuition usually will line up with statistics. Not always, but most of the time I believe it does. Idiots that ignore science, facts, statistics and go by "their guts" usually end up completely wrong and in seriously messy situations to put it best. Every single person knew IN THEIR GUT that Pedro was done.... but Grady apparently. Even Pedro knew. I actually believe Grady DIDN'T pay attention to his gut- he let his irrational fear of making the wrong decision override what accumulated experience and knowledge was kicking at your stomach lining to do and he didn't. I think we've all been there- a bad relationship, a shitty job- when our guts are telling us it's a bad situation but we override that feeling... and it usually comes from your brain overthinking what your "guts" and your rational part of your mind are telling you.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Just to make everyone mad again:

Timlin thru game 6: 8.1 IP, 1 H, 0 BB, 10 K, 0 R
Embree thru game 6: 6.1 IP, 4 H, 0 BB, 1 K, 0 R
SWill thru game 6: 8.0 IP, 3 H, 3 BB, 14 K, 1 R
Combined: 22.2 IP, 8 K, 3 BB, 25 K, 1 R
This also was with what was a pretty bad middle infield defense if I recall correctly. Nomar had definitely lost a major step and Todd Walker was pretty bad.
 

Skiponzo

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Watched it all in one sitting last night because I just couldn't turn it off. Even the hard parts (and there were quiet a few). I never got the vitriol against Grady...yeah he eff'd up but like PedroisGod said above I can actually understand wanting to stay with your Ace...up to a point...but man, Grady really comes across an an A-Hole in this thing so he can go screw himself. Thank God for Tito. Seriously...THANK YOU God!

My 18 y/o son is a die hard Red Sox fan but he doesn't fully understand the "before" (for him the Sox have always been winners...how great is that statement!) but this is gonna help him understand his old man a little better. Amazing job capturing the "essence" of what it felt like to be a Sox fan "before". I like the "after" much much better.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Aug 1, 2001
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McCarver still sucks.
He really, really does. I had forgotten just how biased he was until hearing him babble in those clips. Everything he says is from a pro-Yankee/anti-Sox perspective.
Made me remember why I really wanted the DVDs that someone here made that had the video from Fox but with the audio from the Red Sox radio broadcast.
Thanks again to whoever made those available 20 years ago!
 

steveluck7

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May 10, 2007
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Watched the whole thing yesterday too. What the consensus on the Millar sports center appearance?
When the director told him what Dan Patrick actually asked, he did seem legitimately surprised.
 

EdRalphRomero

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Oct 3, 2007
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I made it 3 minutes in before realizing I don’t want to hear Dan Shaughnessy explain the Red Sox to me. That guy can ruin anything even, evidently, the 2004 Red Sox.
 

Green Monster

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One thing that I don't recall hearing before was the insinuation that the Yankees had bugged the Red Sox clubhouse but the Sox found it and tore it down. Was that public knowledge prior to this release??
 
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Farty Barrett

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Nov 4, 2012
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Made my 10 year old daughter watch just Part 1.

She was devastated. She can sit with that now. It really helps her understand her dad.

The 2003/04 Winter was Loooooooooong. She can wait for Sunday to watch Part 2!
 

chrisfont9

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I just paused the doc to come online and say that. I cannot stand that he is in this documentary.
Bald. Faced. Liar. It's so obvious.I don't know why he agreed to participate if he was just going to stick to his transparent bullshit. He even tried the "hindsight" line, juxtaposed against all the TV and radio people saying in real time they can't believe he's not taking Pedro out. They should find an excuse to invite him to Fenway so he can be fired again.
 

RS2004foreever

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I've held that trophy - it is smaller than I thought and more delicate with the flags on it. I've held the Stanley Cup too - and next to that the World Series trophy is tiny.
I vividly remember the picture of it on the front page of the globe flying home.
Thinking about '04 always brings a smile to my face.
After that everything is gravy.

BTW the 30/30 ESPN doc on Jeter has good stuff on '04
 

Beale13

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Feb 2, 2006
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Like others, I watched it straight through in one sitting.

So much was great. I loved how it handled Manny storming the mound in 2003 and McCarver and Buck are screaming that the ball was nowhere near Manny and he was looking for a fight, preceding all of that with Clemens saying, um, yeah, I was trying to drill him.

Wakefield is such a continuous, emotional presence through pretty much the whole thing. I had forgotten how effective he had been in the 2003 ALCS up until the stupid end, and how he he could have been easily named ALCS MVP if not for the a-hole of a manager setting him up for such a cruel fate.

As for Little, I can't believe he agreed to be in the thing at all, and was doubly shocked that he pretty much doubled down on what is still to this day in my mind, the single dumbest coaching decision I have ever seen in any sport.

I also never heard about the spying allegations.

Very thankful they ignored and didn't try to draw some cheap drama out of the Pedro bullpen appearance in Game 7. It was as if Ali threw the clumsy punch against Forman on Forman's way down instead of holding it back to preserve the aesthetics of the defeat, not anything that put the outcome of the game in doubt.

I wish they spent a little more time analyzing the details of the four games, but that's a tough balance beam to walk when you're trying to appeal to an audience beyond Red Sox fans.
 
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Unin10D

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Feb 7, 2017
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Three things that jumped out at me:

1) Wake. The footage of him after 2003 was heartbreaking and watching Tek choke up had my eyes dusty.

2) So much time was spent on the lead up to the comeback, and not enough time, in my opinion, on the comeback itself. I wish Foulke's Game 6 was in there. He gave the rest of his career for that title. They glossed over some of the big moments in Games 5, 6 and 7, the Trot Nixon at bat, Bellhorn's home run, Pedro coming into Game 7, and although they touched on it, those last two innings of Game 6 with the reversed call, the riot police on the field, the balls raining down on the players, and then Foulke pitching with nothing left may have been the most dramatic two innings of the series.

3) Schilling looks like shit. I wonder if he's sick.
 

PedroisGod

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Three things that jumped out at me:

1) Wake. The footage of him after 2003 was heartbreaking and watching Tek choke up had my eyes dusty.

2) So much time was spent on the lead up to the comeback, and not enough time, in my opinion, on the comeback itself. I wish Foulke's Game 6 was in there. He gave the rest of his career for that title. They glossed over some of the big moments in Games 5, 6 and 7, the Trot Nixon at bat, Bellhorn's home run, Pedro coming into Game 7, and although they touched on it, those last two innings of Game 6 with the reversed call, the riot police on the field, the balls raining down on the players, and then Foulke pitching with nothing left may have been the most dramatic two innings of the series.

3) Schilling looks like shit. I wonder if he's sick.
With respect to #2 - I agree with all of that. They didn't touch on the Bellhorn home run in Game 1 of the WS either and that one was pretty damn important. We got off to a big lead and the Cardinals came back to tie it and I definitely remember having a feeling of "Oh here we go again" even though it was only Game 1. We never trailed the rest of the series after Bellhorn's HR.

I was surprised to see that Manny didn't participate. I don't think there's any bad blood there because he was there for the reunion and has been appearing in the videos the Sox have been putting out on YouTube, but Manny's absence was notable.

With respect to #3 - my buddy sent me the same thing. He looks really old for only being 57. I know he had cancer back in 2014 and lost a ton of weight. I'm sure that took a pretty big toll on his body.

There were other things that I consider noteworthy that didn't really get a mention, such as the comeback against the A's in 2003. That series gave us all a feeling of "Could this really be the year?" and I think the way they came back against the A's and how incredible those games were really built up our hopes and really added to the crushing feeling when it all ended a couple weeks later.

As well, it would have been funny if when talking about the Jeter play in the July 1, 2004 game if they mentioned that Pokey made a better catch in the same game and didn't have to superman dive into the stands to complete it.

Given time constraints, I can understand why a bunch of stuff had to get cut out. Most of us would have been happy to see this go 5+ hours, though I'm sure Netflix wouldn't have been.
 

RS2004foreever

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One other thing: I watched every minute of the ALCS. Looking back I cannot imagine why I would watch game 4 - we were down 3-0 and behind in the game.
And yet I did.
 

Cassvt2023

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Jan 17, 2023
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I watched all 3 episodes yesterday, taking a small break in between each one to reminisce and catch my breath. I also watched every inning of every one of those playoff games in '03 & '04. One thing that i totally forgot about: Game 6 was both the bloody sock game AND the A-Rod slap Arroyo's glove game. I had completely forgotten that all happened in one game. Wow.
 

chrisfont9

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The globe has an interview with Barnicle (Mike's kid?) where he makes an interesting point about Nomar, who is a bigger part of this than I expected:

We didn’t get Nomar [Garciaparra]. We reached out to him multiple times. But him not being able to sit down was kind of an indication to us that this story is still present, good or bad, for a lot of these players. Whether it be [Derek] Jeter, A-Rod [Alex Rodriguez], or Nomar, not getting them to sit down was kind of a benefit to our team, because it was a reminder that, while this happened 20 years ago, for them it never really stops happening. It was more confirmation that this is a story we should tell, right now. It always stays with them, for every single day of their lives.

This whole thing seems as big as ever, so no shock that it is still so big for the players. That's why I've told my Seattle-bred kids to be Mariner fans, because you missed 2004 and there will never be anything like that in Boston again. Maybe the first Mariner championship will feel something like it (not really, but they don't have to know that).
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
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Watched it all in one sitting last night because I just couldn't turn it off. Even the hard parts (and there were quiet a few). I never got the vitriol against Grady...yeah he eff'd up but like PedroisGod said above I can actually understand wanting to stay with your Ace...up to a point...but man, Grady really comes across an an A-Hole in this thing so he can go screw himself. Thank God for Tito. Seriously...THANK YOU God!

My 18 y/o son is a die hard Red Sox fan but he doesn't fully understand the "before" (for him the Sox have always been winners...how great is that statement!) but this is gonna help him understand his old man a little better. Amazing job capturing the "essence" of what it felt like to be a Sox fan "before". I like the "after" much much better.
When Little went out to the mound in the 8th inning, 6 of the last 9 runners reached base on Pedro. If a guy is going by his gut, you should be taking him out. Period.
 

jaytftwofive

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Jan 20, 2013
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With respect to #2 - I agree with all of that. They didn't touch on the Bellhorn home run in Game 1 of the WS either and that one was pretty damn important. We got off to a big lead and the Cardinals came back to tie it and I definitely remember having a feeling of "Oh here we go again" even though it was only Game 1. We never trailed the rest of the series after Bellhorn's HR.

I was surprised to see that Manny didn't participate. I don't think there's any bad blood there because he was there for the reunion and has been appearing in the videos the Sox have been putting out on YouTube, but Manny's absence was notable.

With respect to #3 - my buddy sent me the same thing. He looks really old for only being 57. I know he had cancer back in 2014 and lost a ton of weight. I'm sure that took a pretty big toll on his body.

There were other things that I consider noteworthy that didn't really get a mention, such as the comeback against the A's in 2003. That series gave us all a feeling of "Could this really be the year?" and I think the way they came back against the A's and how incredible those games were really built up our hopes and really added to the crushing feeling when it all ended a couple weeks later.

As well, it would have been funny if when talking about the Jeter play in the July 1, 2004 game if they mentioned that Pokey made a better catch in the same game and didn't have to superman dive into the stands to complete it.

Given time constraints, I can understand why a bunch of stuff had to get cut out. Most of us would have been happy to see this go 5+ hours, though I'm sure Netflix wouldn't have been.
Thank you. I've been saying that since that game that Pokey's catch was better and harder.
 

jaytftwofive

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Jan 20, 2013
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21 years later and my white hot hatred of Grady Little is just as passionate. Really fun watch- wish they could have spent a little more time on the foulke/Clark ab in game 6 and dlowe in game 7, but these are minor nits.
And don't forget the ground rule double that Clark hit that almost hit the side in game 5. That would have scored Sierra easily and the Sox probably would have lost.
 

Theodoric

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Jun 13, 2022
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I want to be a little bit sympathetic to Grady Little. It wasn't like he tried to squeeze an extra inning out of Derek Lowe or John Burkett. It was trying to squeeze an extra inning out of the closest thing to the right arm of God. But nah, I just can't do it. 98% of viewers and 63% of their household pets knew it was wrong.
 

Dick Drago

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Mar 28, 2002
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Yeah, hated having to sit through Shank’s usual drivel. Really surprised they got Grady-unless he wants Sox fans to hate him even more than they already do—and what how arrogant to not even listen to the suggestions of the brass.
Didn’t really need to hear Sheffield and his usual macho crap, though I suppose they needed a member of the ‘04 Yankees.

I forget how amazing the ‘03 As series was—and the BK Kim drama. They didn’t have time to cover it much, but it inspired me to give a re-watch.

We’ve all seen a lot of this before, but they did a great job getting Clemens and Pedro to open up about trying to hit guys. (And the Zimmer incident)

Most interesting new stuff I didn’t know about was the microphone in the clubhouse , Tito’s first impressions of Manny, Theo’s thoughts on trading Nomar, the Millar/Nomar rift. Definitely worth the watch, even tho “Four Days in September “ did a better job conveying the drama (in my opinion).
 

Norm Siebern

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May 12, 2003
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Just finished binge watching all three episodes. Overall, just outstanding. The importance of Wakefield to his teammates is omnipresent. The arrogance and entitlement on behalf of the MFY fanbase (and the whole organization, TBH) is center stage. There is some very interesting new stuff, at least to me (Millar and Nomar, the microphone, Torre being a bit of a whiny spoiled brat). It reminds me of a time in my life when this whole thing (The Red Sox) was at the very center of my existence. And by "a time of my life" I mean the entirety of the first 2/3rds of it.

Some of the negatives: I share many of the same thoughts that others have already given. I think they missed out/glossed over some important points in the last episode, in particular. The tension of Wakefield throwing wild pitch after wild pitch to Varitek in extra innings in game 5. The Clark AB against Foulke in game 6 was rushed through, the drama of that AB was almost stroke inducing (in fact, in real time I couldn't watch it - I went into another room and waited for my wife to call to me that all was OK, Clark had struck out. I was certain that Clark was going to hit a cheap ass Yankee Stadium RF HR). I will always hail Keith Foulke as a savior for how he gave his career for that series (#Unin 10D is spot on correct). I think game 7 was given short shrift as well, IMHO. That they didn't show Papi's HR at all, or any of the first inning of game 7. That was surprising.

I wish these few errors (IMHO) were cleaned up. I imagine time constraints played a part. Because, outside of these few missed segments, this is truly an excellent, first rate, and in my opinion, the best, revisiting of the story. Kudos to the Barnicle kids.
 
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Cassvt2023

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Jan 17, 2023
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Maybe my most fascinating moment: The verbal agreement by Billy Beane to become GM. Then the popping of champagne with Henry. And mostly, him spending the whole next day with Theo making a game plan for the 2004 season, before he rescinded. Really great back story stuff.
 

GB5

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Aug 26, 2013
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To me a lot of things are different about my Red Sox watching experience from pre2004 to post 2004. I think the coverage now adays is so much less, so much softer, less antagonistic.

One of the major takeaways for me from this documentary is just what an absolutely incredible job Tito did with this team. Just incredible. So much for him to have to deal with on a daily basis, and he gets heated up before the season barely gets going,

He is a first time RS manager with not a great managing track record and he has to deal with,

1. A very hurt and emotional Nomar, who arrives with a questionable injury and then many believe an intentionally slow recovery.

2. Schill vs Pedro

3. Pedro’s contract year

4. Arod negotiations

5. Pedro disappearing from clubhouse on opening day,

6. Manny wanting to be traded, and then skipping a game with Yankees to hang out at Yankees hotel bar with Yankees player.

7. Pissy Ortiz the first month of season.

8. Yanks 3-0 lead.

Unlike today, this team was FIERCELY covered. Everyone of these individual items was like a 2 week murder trial. Debated endlessly, it’s going to sink the team.

Tito weathering this in his first year here was remarkable.
 

Cassvt2023

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Jan 17, 2023
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To me a lot of things are different about my Red Sox watching experience from pre2004 to post 2004. I think the coverage now adays is so much less, so much softer, less antagonistic.

One of the major takeaways for me from this documentary is just what an absolutely incredible job Tito did with this team. Just incredible. So much for him to have to deal with on a daily basis, and he gets heated up before the season barely gets going,

He is a first time RS manager with not a great managing track record and he has to deal with,

1. A very hurt and emotional Nomar, who arrives with a questionable injury and then many believe an intentionally slow recovery.

2. Schill vs Pedro

3. Pedro’s contract year

4. Arod negotiations

5. Pedro disappearing from clubhouse on opening day,

6. Manny wanting to be traded, and then skipping a game with Yankees to hang out at Yankees hotel bar with Yankees player.

7. Pissy Ortiz the first month of season.

8. Yanks 3-0 lead.

Unlike today, this team was FIERCELY covered. Everyone of these individual items was like a 2 week murder trial. Debated endlessly, it’s going to sink the team.

Tito weathering this in his first year here was remarkable.
9. Millar going on Sportscenter and saying he'd rather have A-Rod on the team, when Nomar and Manny were still on the team.
 

chrisfont9

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When Little went out to the mound in the 8th inning, 6 of the last 9 runners reached base on Pedro. If a guy is going by his gut, you should be taking him out. Period.
I wonder if it wasn't so much his gut but that he was scared the pen wouldn't hold it and he would be blamed for pulling Pedro. Not that scared is any better than stupid. The pen was rolling, btw.
 

Cassvt2023

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I wonder if it wasn't so much his gut but that he was scared the pen wouldn't hold it and he would be blamed for pulling Pedro. Not that scared is any better than stupid. The pen was rolling, btw.
It was obvious the moment simply got too big for him. And his stubborn hillbilly kicked in. Timlin and Embree were both ready to go. After the popup in the 8th for the first out, that was the time to yank him on a high note. With the bases empty. The end.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I wonder if it wasn't so much his gut but that he was scared the pen wouldn't hold it and he would be blamed for pulling Pedro. Not that scared is any better than stupid. The pen was rolling, btw.
I think that was 100% it. The guy had been in a panic about the bullpen from the first game of the season when the "closer by committee" approach that he clearly didn't understand didn't work out. He rode Kim into the ground once he made him the closer because he trusted no one else. And with Kim unavailable, he couldn't bring himself to trust the other guys in the pen despite their lights-out performance in the post-season.
 

moonshotmanny

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2003 Boone home run didn't make me angry. I was just, "Of course that happened". 1986 conditioned me to expect something would always go wrong. My youngest son remembers how upset I was over that! So I was kind of resigned to the inevitable.

2004 when they lost the first 3 to the Yankees I had that same resigned feeling. But when they won game 4, I suddenly got a different feeling. I remember thinking, "What would be a better way to break the Curse by coming back from that!" Then they won the next game, and then when they tied the series, I was very optimistic. I wasn't worried at all about game 7. Just enjoyed and watched it. To me there was no way they would lose, and I also felt confident they would win the World Series. Getting past the Yankees was the hard part!