In Case You Missed It - 2004 Docuseries on Netflix

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
22,968
Maine
Well, he got cancer.

Google “chemo brain” if you want more to ponder.
His cancer diagnosis was 10 years ago and he was still on TV and looking somewhat healthy after he was in remission. I don't think it's cancer that made him look like he did in the doc (unless he's hiding a more recent diagnosis, which would be ironic given how he outed Wake).
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
14,112
São Paulo - Brazil
I almost threw something through my TV when Francesca said something like “you don’t expect anyone to get near that (Jeter) ball” when he dove into the stands from 10 feet in fair territory because ummmm that’s a routine popup for most competent defenders.
It's legitimately hilarious how each replay made that fucking catch look less and less impressive.
 

marcoscutaro

New Member
Jun 15, 2024
175
The moment where they win it all and the producers cut to the look of absolute pride and joy on the faces of Pedro et al and let their facial expressions say it for them - loved it so much.
 

Archer1979

shazowies
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
9,121
Right Here
Injuries, man. There were whispers about him using steroids which made him more susceptible to injury. No idea what to do with that.
My response to your post about Nomar would have been a little more long-winded than this so thanks. :)

Prior to his wrist injury, I don't think that anyone would have bet against Nomar being a HOFer. But after that... And the steroid rumors were definitely out there, especially with the 2003 drug test stemming from the George Mitchell investigation. My biggest uh-oh during that time period was when Nomar made the cover of SI looking absolutely shredded. I had an amateur body builder working for me at the time who worked out with a lot of the WWE guys. His impression was that not too many people can look that cut without some help.

Speaking of amateur body builders, how stupid was WOTS in going after Gabe Kapler? Reminds me of the line from MASH when Col. Flagg threatens Major Burns. To paraphrase Major Houlihan... "Don't do it Tanyon, we've seen him with his shirt off."

A couple of other things came to mind in the What If dept. What If John Olerud didn't get injured and was available to play any of Games 4 through 7? The margin was so thin that this is just another point to make in regarding this as a perfect storm.

Also, what if Sheffield didn't make that "walking disaster" quote? That had to have been up on the bulletin board in the Sox clubhouse.

I really hope that they make a director's cut on this and add some stills, clips and interviews. I'd love to see where Bill Lee makes the comment in response to the Pedro/Zimmer confrontation and points out that "It ain't easy to grab a bowling ball by the ears." .
 

marcoscutaro

New Member
Jun 15, 2024
175
Pedro’s quotes are so great in this. “Send them both to the hospital in the same ambulance” is an all time one.
 

zenax

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2023
601
Prior to his wrist injury, I don't think that anyone would have bet against Nomar being a HOFer.
In his first four full seasons, Garciaparra had a slashline of .337/.386/.577/.963 and had won two batting titles. I had no doubt he was on his way to the Hall.
 

Bowhemian

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2015
6,654
Bow, NH
I’m 58 years old. I’ve lived through all the shit. Seeing the Boone homer makes me throw up in my mouth every time. But knowing what happened in 2004 makes it all better. And Grady Little is more irrelevant than Arod
 

BoSox Rule

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,367
The Nomar SI cover is the most over talked about “evidence” of steroid use there is, and other than that nobody has anything else tying him to anything. He looks like a 26 or 27 year old professional athlete in very good shape. Seriously, just look at the the picture he isn’t Brock Lesnsr.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
My response to your post about Nomar would have been a little more long-winded than this so thanks. :)

Prior to his wrist injury, I don't think that anyone would have bet against Nomar being a HOFer. But after that... And the steroid rumors were definitely out there, especially with the 2003 drug test stemming from the George Mitchell investigation. My biggest uh-oh during that time period was when Nomar made the cover of SI looking absolutely shredded. I had an amateur body builder working for me at the time who worked out with a lot of the WWE guys. His impression was that not too many people can look that cut without some help.

Speaking of amateur body builders, how stupid was WOTS in going after Gabe Kapler? Reminds me of the line from MASH when Col. Flagg threatens Major Burns. To paraphrase Major Houlihan... "Don't do it Tanyon, we've seen him with his shirt off."

A couple of other things came to mind in the What If dept. What If John Olerud didn't get injured and was available to play any of Games 4 through 7? The margin was so thin that this is just another point to make in regarding this as a perfect storm.

Also, what if Sheffield didn't make that "walking disaster" quote? That had to have been up on the bulletin board in the Sox clubhouse.

I really hope that they make a director's cut on this and add some stills, clips and interviews. I'd love to see where Bill Lee makes the comment in response to the Pedro/Zimmer confrontation and points out that "It ain't easy to grab a bowling ball by the ears." .
All this is so refreshing. Curse schmurse, what made it great was that those two teams really didn't like each other. It really brought out their personalities and made it 10x more entertaining, in a really rare way.
 

curly2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 8, 2003
5,204
Just watched it--and loved it.

When they showed the Yankees starter getting congratulated after a good start in the July 1 game I thought, "This guy looks like he's 12 and I have no idea who he is." I saw it was Brad Halsey, and he was 23 at the time. As I was checking his age on BB-Ref, I saw he died at 33. I looked up how he died. What a bizarre, sad story.
 

BuellMiller

New Member
Mar 25, 2015
480
Another one I had forgotten was Manny essentially telling Tito to pound sand upon arriving to spring training. It has escaped my memory that the Sox put him on waivers the previous winter. Which raises the question if another team claimed him and the Sox do not significantly replace his spot on roster or $$, do they win in 04?
I wonder if that just makes getting Arod easier straight up for Nomar, without needing to try to get Arod to lower his salary when also taking back Magglio Ordonez in the original package (including Lester going out as well). Not sure who plays LF though. Maybe they try to trade prospects for a less expensive player (maybe they go after JD Drew 3 years sooner) of they try to get the equivalent of the Bill mueller signing but for the OF, like someone like Shannon Stewart. (Just did a Quick Look at FA signings that offseason but depends on when in this hypothetical Manny gets claimed)
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
1,635
The Nomar SI cover is the most over talked about “evidence” of steroid use there is, and other than that nobody has anything else tying him to anything. He looks like a 26 or 27 year old professional athlete in very good shape. Seriously, just look at the the picture he isn’t Brock Lesnsr.
A lot of folks remember that Nomar was 135 lbs. when he arrived at Georgia Tech and below 160 when he was drafted three years later.

90576

The struggle has been discussed elsewhere:

”Despite a glorious 1995 campaign at Class-AA Trenton, Nomar could not get his weight up over 160. After the 1995 season, Nomar was exhausted. His weight was down below 160 and he wondered whether he had the stamina to make it the majors. He got in his car and drove to Bradenton, Florida, where he talked with his old Georgia Tech trainer, Mark Verstegen. Verstegen explained that Nomar had to remake himself, starting with his core muscles. These were the ones he depended on for hitting and throwing. Three months later, he had packed on nearly 20 pounds of raw muscle between his belt and neckline. In spring training, Nomar’s new body turned a lot of heads” (https://fenwayparkdiaries.com/best players/nomar garciaparrra.htm).

90578
 

BoSox Rule

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,367
I’m not saying there’s no chance Nomar never took steroids. I’m saying that other than that picture there were never any other whispers as far as I know.
Nomar was 21 in Trenton, a year out of college. The SI cover he was 26 years old, a 6 year pro a with Major League nutrition and Major League weight facilities. And he wasn’t even that big.
 

RoDaddy

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2002
3,423
Albany area, NY
And it's also sad as to what Schilling has become, because I freakin' loved him back in 2004...never realizing that the guy wasn't just an ass, but actually a lot worse.
True that and all the extreme right wing craziness but life is short and we loved him that year. In 2004, he and the rest of us - players and fans - were basically sharing the same emotions as part of an incredible bonding moment. Now we're here again reliving and reloving that sacred moment in this thread - plus his docuseries commentary was pretty great. If he's still on the site - G38, right? - I hope he posts to this thread.
 

ookami7m

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
6,053
Mobile, AL
Finished this last night. Loved it and without repeating what everyone else has already said re Grady or the Millar/Nomar/Manny nonsense (You really see how mad Manny still was about that when in the dugout shot after ALCS 7 he looks at the camera and says 'I Want Alex!') couple of things I really loved:

Tito telling Papi "What? I hit .170, what can I teach you?"
Joe West telling Tito "I got it" before handling the Slap play.
Never had heard about the mic in the Yankee Stadium clubhouse - did I miss that?
DLowe came across as a super cool guy who recognized that he had the least deserving regular season to have the chance he did but making the bets of it.
Sheffield coming in blinged out, shades on, cigar in mouth trying to outrival Papi for just being the coolest guy in the room.


Would have loved more talk about Wake in Game 3 and Game 4 since they obviously went for the heart at the end - seeing Tek and the guys get teary eyed would have been just as powerful if not more if the doc had shown how he just went out there to be a bullet sponge for the bullpen in Game 3 and then again in Game 4 with the scariest catching performance ever.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
A lot of folks remember that Nomar was 135 lbs. when he arrived at Georgia Tech and below 160 when he was drafted three years later.

View attachment 90576

The struggle has been discussed elsewhere:

”Despite a glorious 1995 campaign at Class-AA Trenton, Nomar could not get his weight up over 160. After the 1995 season, Nomar was exhausted. His weight was down below 160 and he wondered whether he had the stamina to make it the majors. He got in his car and drove to Bradenton, Florida, where he talked with his old Georgia Tech trainer, Mark Verstegen. Verstegen explained that Nomar had to remake himself, starting with his core muscles. These were the ones he depended on for hitting and throwing. Three months later, he had packed on nearly 20 pounds of raw muscle between his belt and neckline. In spring training, Nomar’s new body turned a lot of heads” (https://fenwayparkdiaries.com/best players/nomar garciaparrra.htm).

View attachment 90578
Ha! There are millions of guys in their 20s who look like that. Every NBA player, to start with, and all the NFL skill guys. That doesn't scream steroids. I'm no expert of course, but the only way that is suspicious is if he transformed his physique in an unnaturally short time.
 

Pandarama

New Member
Aug 20, 2018
156
Oh and they published a piece showing all the cover pages over the postseason.
IIRC, someone published a parody Globe front page with a headline like, “UNFUCKINGBELIEVABLE! THEY FUCKING DID IT!”

Anyone know where that could be found today?
 

pjheff

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2003
1,635
Ha! There are millions of guys in their 20s who look like that. Every NBA player, to start with, and all the NFL skill guys. That doesn't scream steroids. I'm no expert of course, but the only way that is suspicious is if he transformed his physique in an unnaturally short time.
Like twenty pounds of raw muscle between his belt and his neckline in three months?
 

TrotNixonRing

Sally Field
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2023
1,248
Ha! There are millions of guys in their 20s who look like that. Every NBA player, to start with, and all the NFL skill guys. That doesn't scream steroids. I'm no expert of course, but the only way that is suspicious is if he transformed his physique in an unnaturally short time.
his abs aren’t even visible. I remember it being a big deal at the time and I was young and bought into it but looking back, and keep in mind camera angles and air brushing, but looking at it now that photo is not at all damning IMHO
 

Mantush

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2014
780
I'd expect to see larger trapezoid muscles on someone using anabolic steroids than Nomar shows. There's nothing about that physique that makes me think he's running gear.
 

BoSox Rule

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,367
Moving further along the series, now: how in the HELL did they not show Bellhorn’s HR after the Rodriguez slap? That’s just malpractice to not put that in there, Bellhorn dealt death blow after death blow in the playoffs to no love.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,141
Hingham, MA
Moving further along the series, now: how in the HELL did they not show Bellhorn’s HR after the Rodriguez slap? That’s just malpractice to not put that in there, Bellhorn dealt death blow after death blow in the playoffs to no love.
There was no HR after the slap.
 

changer591

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
1,214
Shrewsbury, MA
You guys are nuts. Nomar had been historically wirey and the the SI cover came out where he looked way more jacked than he did. I'm not saying it was or wasn't steroids, but it was a pretty big deal back then for a reason...and his injuries (outside of getting hit in the wrist) really seemed to start then.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,141
Hingham, MA
You guys are nuts. Nomar had been historically wirey and the the SI cover came out where he looked way more jacked than he did. I'm not saying it was or wasn't steroids, but it was a pretty big deal back then for a reason...and his injuries (outside of getting hit in the wrist) really seemed to start then.
The SI cover was in 2001.

He hit 30 HR as a rookie in 1997 (153 GP; .306 BA)
He hit 35 HR in 1998 (143 GP; .323 BA)
He hit 27 HR in 1999 (135 GP; .357 BA)
He hit 21 HR in 2000 (140 GP; .372 BA)

So his HR declined each year from 1998-2000, and he always missed ~20-25 games during that stretch due to various reasons. It's not like he showed up on that cover and then turned into a power hitter.

Edit: also, he played 156 games in both 2002 and 2003, career highs.
 

changer591

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
1,214
Shrewsbury, MA
The SI cover was in 2001.

He hit 30 HR as a rookie in 1997 (153 GP; .306 BA)
He hit 35 HR in 1998 (143 GP; .323 BA)
He hit 27 HR in 1999 (135 GP; .357 BA)
He hit 21 HR in 2000 (140 GP; .372 BA)

So his HR declined each year from 1998-2000, and he always missed ~20-25 games during that stretch due to various reasons. It's not like he showed up on that cover and then turned into a power hitter.

Edit: also, he played 156 games in both 2002 and 2003, career highs.
I didn't say that he became more of a power hitter after the cover, just that his body type changed. But I did think he had more nagging injuries after the cover and I wasn't accurate with that.
The discourse back then was why would he go and muscle up when he was already a pretty decent power hitter. He was clearly a bigger guy than when he came up (which certainly isn't rare...see pretty much every young power hitter ever), but it was crazy to see someone who was almost rail thin as a rookie become jacked.
And I have a signed Nomar hat and he was my favorite player...he will forever be one of those What Ifs for me.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
54,666
Lots of great points and I will add that the '03-04 era in baseball will probably never be matched again for a variety of reasons. As the doc noted, during this time in the sport, the two teams taking up all the oxygen were the Sox and Yankees with one breathlessly chasing the other even during the offseason.

I don't doubt that the Sox and Yankees will have fierce rivalries in the future but the stakes back then were just so much bigger.
 

Strike4

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,279
Portland, Maine
Finished it today and it was great.

Not sure it's possible but I would love a show about the 2004 Sox that captures it as a cultural phenomenon. I think we're all starting to forget the impact it had - like way beyond sports or fandom.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,141
Hingham, MA
I don’t forget any of that. I was trying to explain it to my son today. My wife was smirking. She didn’t live here. She doesn’t understand. It was life and death.
 

Flynn4ever

Member
SoSH Member
I watched the whole thing in the late afternoon and evening yesterday, and almost all of my takeaways have been covered. It was great to relive those memories, both painful ('03) and joyous ('04) I guess the most interesting new thing for me was to see how the players, on-field coaches and off-field management were sometimes all on the same page, but often far from in synch. That and Pedro's candid comments about '03 game 7 fascinated me. With regards to Nomar, my wife of then one year and I were in Malaysia that summer, and when I got back to reliable Internet and found Nomar gone, I was shocked but somehow trusted Theo.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
SoSH Member
Sep 6, 2004
39,860
where the darn libs live
I’m watching the first 40 minutes of the first part and holy fuck I want to strangle that stupid fucking hillbilly Little all over again.

I’ve told this story before but whatever. I was dating a girl in university at the time of the 2003 ALCS. We started dating in April 2003 and I infected her with my love of the Sox despite the fact she was Canadian. Anyway, she didn’t know much about the game but we watched as many games as we could, and we drove back to Boston to watch games on Columbus Day weekend — the Pedro/Zimmer game we watched at a bar in West Roxbury.

So a few days later — she hasn’t watched more than 50 baseball games in her life — and Pedro comes out for the 8th in G7 and she goes “why is he still pitching? I don’t think Pedro is okay?”

And honestly that’s it. A person who’s watched very little baseball is smarter than the Red Sox manager.

Grady Little might be a wonderful father or uncle or grandfather, but I hopes every day he lives he horribly stubs all his toes. Every day.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
28,616
Saskatoon Canada
Injuries, man. There were whispers about him using steroids which made him more susceptible to injury. No idea what to do with that.
I neve rbought Nomar on juice talk. The Nomar Steroid rumors were because of this pic. I can't imagine how may SOSH members are bigger than this clean. He shaved and is pumped up, but that's just an elite guy who lifted hard. So many peopl ein the media who knew nothing about strength training assumed roids for every guy that got big. We have seen this in the NFL and MLB, once lifting became part of the sport steroids came with it, but after testing everybody kept lifting and while freakish bodies like Canseco and Alzado are not part of it there are plenty of huge strong guy in both sports. and the average strength is probably higher.
90616

Now this is a steroid body
90617
 

rodderick

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 24, 2009
14,112
São Paulo - Brazil
I neve rbought Nomar on juice talk. The Nomar Steroid rumors were because of this pic. I can't imagine how may SOSH members are bigger than this clean. He shaved and is pumped up, but that's just an elite guy who lifted hard. So many peopl ein the media who knew nothing about strength training assumed roids for every guy that got big. We have seen this in the NFL and MLB, once lifting became part of the sport steroids came with it, but after testing everybody kept lifting and while freakish bodies like Canseco and Alzado are not part of it there are plenty of huge strong guy in both sports. and the average strength is probably higher.
View attachment 90616

Now this is a steroid body
View attachment 90617
Nomar's traps and delts aren't really indicative os someone on gear. And yeah, super attainable body, not really a lot of mass for someone who's not all that lean.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
28,964
Unreal America
I was 14 in 2003. Nomar was a legitimate God to me, he still is. It’s absolutely crazy to think how different his career should have been in Boston and it actually makes me sad sometimes. He was absolutely on fire in mid 2003 getting up to .343/.379/.591 on July 2 and it looked like he might even win the MVP as a leader in one of the best offensives of all-time and then he just totally friggin bottomed out and hit .258/.311/.454 until the end of the season and the rest is history It sucks how things ended with him
I had forgotten a lot about Nomar’s 2003. But then it came back to me. He was dreadful late in that season. Hit under .200 the last months of the season, then turned into mostly a mediocre singles hitter in the post season. And clearly Theo found his defense subpar.
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
28,964
Unreal America
Loved the doc. Was great hearing from guys like Foulke, Nixon, Mirabelli and Timlin who typically don’t get a lot of air time in ‘04 retrospectives.

It was insane how Papi could recall specific things 20 years later. Like Paul Quantril’s pitch approach. Not that I needed another reminder, but that’s why the guy was a hitting assassin. So damn knowledgeable.

Not only is Pedro the great pitcher I’ve ever seen, he’s also a baseball genius. He just knows so damn much about every aspect of the game.

Lastly, I completely forgot about the Nomar to the White Sox for Magglio Ordonez trade that got nixed when the ARod portion fell apart.
 

Average Reds

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
36,482
Southwestern CT
Just finished the first episode and all I can say is fuck Grady Little. And Shank. And Aaron Boone. And about 20 other people.

I get that it’s gets better, but dealing with all the bile building up is not fun.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
41,141
Hingham, MA
Loved the doc. Was great hearing from guys like Foulke, Nixon, Mirabelli and Timlin who typically don’t get a lot of air time in ‘04 retrospectives.

It was insane how Papi could recall specific things 20 years later. Like Paul Quantril’s pitch approach. Not that I needed another reminder, but that’s why the guy was a hitting assassin. So damn knowledgeable.

Not only is Pedro the great pitcher I’ve ever seen, he’s also a baseball genius. He just knows so damn much about every aspect of the game.

Lastly, I completely forgot about the Nomar to the White Sox for Magglio Ordonez trade that got nixed when the ARod portion fell apart.
I forgot that Lester was part of the deal (and Brandon McCarthy). We really dodged a bullet there. Multiple actually.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
I had forgotten a lot about Nomar’s 2003. But then it came back to me. He was dreadful late in that season. Hit under .200 the last months of the season, then turned into mostly a mediocre singles hitter in the post season. And clearly Theo found his defense subpar.
Hm, my memory of him is colored by ALCS G6, which I am looking up now: 4-5 with a triple off Contreras in the big comeback inning. But that raised him to .273, so he must not have done much til then.

But the larger point is that he was showing signs of diminished athleticism -- the wrist, the achilles -- in his walk year, and asking for a lot. I don't recall being too upset when he was traded, except for him personally.
 

Scott Cooper's Grand Slam

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 12, 2008
4,729
New England
David Ortiz’s presence is unmatched. I’m halfway through the first episode (Lowe just closed the door on the A’s). The episode is worth it for the first appearance of present-day Papi alone.
 

koufax32

He'll cry if he wants to...
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2006
9,433
Duval
I remember watching all of game 3. I was going to turn it off once it was clear the route was on, but I hate watched the rest and vowed to watch all of game 4 just as a “screw you” to that team and organization.
It ended up being the most tiring week of my life. I was a teacher and I brought a small pillow and blanket to my classroom, hiding them in my storage cabinet so I could turn off my lights, crawl under my desk, and take naps during my planning periods. Many others have said it, but if that type of drama and stress happens to me now at age 45, it probably kills me.
Man, was that tough seeing Tek talk about Wakefield.