Is ___________ a Hall of Famer?

donutogre

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That year he managed to be the league leader (or tied) in complete game shutouts in both leagues, 2 for CLE and 3 for MIL.

Also his final regular season game ever was a pretty great way to go out. Pitching in Tampa at the end of 2019, he needed just a few innings to trigger a half million dollar bonus. But he thought Tampa was throwing at Yankee batters, so he retaliated, got tossed and left, yelling the whole way. I think NY ended up giving him the bonus anyway.
Hah, that's great. And yeah, the number of complete games he threw that weren't quite shutouts is pretty astounding, too. I know the game has changed, etc, but man is it cool when a guy can do that... 7 CG in 17 starts for Milwaukee, with multiple starts on short rest, was just wild. He was also fabulous in the 2009 postseason, too.
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
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Sabathia is going to get in. He won the Cy Young and finished in the Top 5 on four other occasions. He was a good postseason pitcher who pitched extremely well in 2009 when he won the World Series. There was a time in his mid-30s where his velocity dipped down and he had some personal problems and it looked like his career was going to be over, but he bounced back and was able to string together several solid seasons that allowed him to clear some critical milestones, including 250 career wins and 3,000 strikeouts.

The case against Sabathia was that he was never particularly dominant outside of that half-season in Milwaukee, which is why his WAR is fairly low (62 career bWAR) despite a very lengthy career. He never led the league in ERA, ERA+, FIP, WHIP or strikeouts. In black ink he falls well below the Hall of Fame standard, in gray ink he is slightly below average. To compare him to Grienke, who has 73 career bWAR in more than 500 fewer career innings, it shows how great Greinke has truly been
 

grimshaw

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May 16, 2007
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Regarding deGrom, I think that with a career in the neighborhood of 12 years, the gold standard would be Kofax. He's not there yet, but a decade of dominance should gamer serious consideration. There's nothing he can do about the win total and a lack of post season play in a shorter career might work against him, but he's also doing what he's doing in an era when teams other than his score a shit ton of runs and balls fly out of the park at a record pace.
This doesn't really fit in another thread, but the Sox have a win probability of 28% in the upcoming deGrom match up on the road. You rarely see good teams even below 40%. He is pitching at peak Pedro level right now.
 

YTF

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This doesn't really fit in another thread, but the Sox have a win probability of 28% in the upcoming deGrom match up on the road. You rarely see good teams even below 40%. He is pitching at peak Pedro level right now.
He's truly been amazing over the course of the past few years. I'm not the stat guy that many here are, but I'm curious if the win probability is based strictly on deGrom's performance. I'm guessing it has to be, but curious if the Met's inability to score runs for him gets factored into that.
 

grimshaw

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May 16, 2007
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He's truly been amazing over the course of the past few years. I'm not the stat guy that many here are, but I'm curious if the win probability is based strictly on deGrom's performance. I'm guessing it has to be, but curious if the Met's inability to score runs for him gets factored into that.
Pivetta facing the NL East who know him well, no DH, on the road, and the Mets being good all factor in too.
 

donutogre

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Jul 20, 2005
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Sabathia is going to get in. He won the Cy Young and finished in the Top 5 on four other occasions. He was a good postseason pitcher who pitched extremely well in 2009 when he won the World Series. There was a time in his mid-30s where his velocity dipped down and he had some personal problems and it looked like his career was going to be over, but he bounced back and was able to string together several solid seasons that allowed him to clear some critical milestones, including 250 career wins and 3,000 strikeouts.

The case against Sabathia was that he was never particularly dominant outside of that half-season in Milwaukee, which is why his WAR is fairly low (62 career bWAR) despite a very lengthy career. He never led the league in ERA, ERA+, FIP, WHIP or strikeouts. In black ink he falls well below the Hall of Fame standard, in gray ink he is slightly below average. To compare him to Grienke, who has 73 career bWAR in more than 500 fewer career innings, it shows how great Greinke has truly been
Well said. I think for me it's also that Sabathia was an AL guy for so long, and on the Yankees... was hard to forget about him. Grienke went to the NL and I stopped seeing him very much but he's been quietly awesome for a very long time now.