It never gets old - reflections on Oct 17-20, 2004

ToeKneeArmAss

Paul Byrd's pitching coach
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
With NESN replaying the last four games of the 2004 ALCS, lots of us have been re-living those magical days. I wrote a blog post about the less-celebrated yet critical moments of those games.

It feels a little foolish to spend time writing about an event about which everything has already been written. It's really intended more as a keepsake and a way to preserve and share the thoughts and feelings I experience each time I re-watch those games. In case you might want to compare memories, you can read it here: https://bit.ly/2SBCxqX
 
Last edited:

LoweTek

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 30, 2005
2,183
Central Florida
It's interesting you should start this thread on this day. I broke out the DVD collection of the ALCS and World Series of 2004 over the weekend and was doing the exact same thing, noting little moments I had forgotten or not noticed previously. Good to see you back TKAA. It's been a while.

I caught many of those you mention in game 4 but I'm still on game 5 so I stopped reading...
 

Mugsy's Jock

Eli apologist
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 28, 2000
15,069
UWS, NYC
That was really well-written, thank you. All those little hairs on the back of my neck stood up again.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
21,766
Pittsburgh, PA
Great stuff. Is the archive of the dueling SoSH / NYYFans gamethreads still around somewhere? That was always a beloved companion to those games.
 

Jim Ed Rice in HOF

Red-headed Skrub child
SoSH Member
Jul 21, 2005
8,260
Seacoast NH
Great stuff. Is the archive of the dueling SoSH / NYYFans gamethreads still around somewhere? That was always a beloved companion to those games.
This is it I believe. I don't know who owns that site but someone should be in touch with that guy in case he ever decides to stop hosting that site so the history doesn't go *poof*.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,646
Arkansas
in retrospect the series was over after game 5 if i was torre after game 4 wouild had threw out my worse arms for game 5 even for game 6 as well the series was won after game 5 because torre used all he had to win game 4 and 5 and schilling was a all timer in game 6 by game 7 the yanks was on fumes and walked dead
 

Salem's Lot

Andy Moog! Andy God Damn Moog!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
14,465
Gallows Hill
I’m still amazed that Torre left Brown in for Cabrera, he was cooked. There was like 1 decent pitch in that entire at bat.
 

jackno

New Member
Jul 18, 2005
78
RI
Watching Game 7 now.....Yankees tried to pull out all of the flexes of The Curse including bringing out Bucky Dent to throw the first pitch of Game 7.
I remember a classic comment on SOSH the day after game 7. (paraphrase) Who thought it was a good idea to have Bucky Dent's father throw out the first pitch?
 

Minneapolis Millers

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,753
Twin Cities
I’m still amazed when I look at Brown’s career stats and remember that he was a frequent All-Star, even a borderline HoFer, comparable to Schilling. Because my lasting image of him is walking off that Game 7 field, thoroughly dominated and defeated.
 

bob burda

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,549
I’m still amazed when I look at Brown’s career stats and remember that he was a frequent All-Star, even a borderline HoFer, comparable to Schilling. Because my lasting image of him is walking off that Game 7 field, thoroughly dominated and defeated.
In that series: 2 GS, 3.1 IP, 9H, 4BB, 2HRs and a 21.60 ERA.

He was so bad as to be comical. In the history of post-season baseball, you wonder if there were ever 2 games started with performance this bad.
 

HriniakPosterChild

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 6, 2006
14,841
500 feet above Lake Sammammish
I’m still amazed when I look at Brown’s career stats and remember that he was a frequent All-Star, even a borderline HoFer, comparable to Schilling. Because my lasting image of him is walking off that Game 7 field, thoroughly dominated and defeated.
Didn’t he try to quit baseball in the middle of a game during the regular season, and Torre had to talk him off the ledge?
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,670
He punched the clubhouse wall with his non-pitching hand in September of that year and broke two bones.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
6,348
If I were torre, I would have bunted in game 6.
I was expecting this to be the plan.... and was perpetually in shock when it never happened. I was watching this game at my local pub in Brooklyn- mix of good natured Yankee and Sox fans (and Yankee hating Mets fans) and EVERYONE there was asking the same question every time any MFY batter was up. Did Torre think it was unpolite or something?
 

Unin10D

New Member
Feb 7, 2017
257
What was the single moment where it changed? What was the single moment where the tides shifted from, "It's going to go tits up at some point" to "we're winning this f%&#ing game"?

It wasn't until the beginning of Game 7 that I allowed myself to even briefly think the Sox might complete the comeback. Up until that point it was "just don't get swept" or "just don't lose in Boston"

Flash forward a decade and I knew, deep down I knew, that the Pats were coming back from 28-3. And even though I was biting my nails watching Kimbrel struggle in Game 4, I knew they were going to rip the Yankees' hearts out.

So now I look back and I wonder, where did that paradigm shift? Part of me thinks it was Ortiz's first inning home run in Game 7. The Yankees had a bit of momentum going with throwing Damon out at home, and immediately Ortiz shuts it down
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,059
Hingham, MA
What was the single moment where it changed? What was the single moment where the tides shifted from, "It's going to go tits up at some point" to "we're winning this f%&#ing game"?

It wasn't until the beginning of Game 7 that I allowed myself to even briefly think the Sox might complete the comeback. Up until that point it was "just don't get swept" or "just don't lose in Boston"

Flash forward a decade and I knew, deep down I knew, that the Pats were coming back from 28-3. And even though I was biting my nails watching Kimbrel struggle in Game 4, I knew they were going to rip the Yankees' hearts out.

So now I look back and I wonder, where did that paradigm shift? Part of me thinks it was Ortiz's first inning home run in Game 7. The Yankees had a bit of momentum going with throwing Damon out at home, and immediately Ortiz shuts it down
It's a tough question. I think the biggest play of the entire series may have been Trot's single in the 8th inning of game 5. The Sox were still in a position to lose the series until that hit. Once the Sox had the tying run on 3rd with no outs, even against Rivera, it felt like the tide had turned.
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,163
You showed the line drive in Game 5 that Nixon caught off the bat of Matsui.

That always reminds me of Grady leaving Pedro out there to face Matsui in Game 7, Inning 8, 2003. Same result, really, in terms of the batter/pitcher. Hard hit ball to right field. But, unlike a year later, the ball doesn't find Nixon's glove.
 

loshjott

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2004
14,943
Silver Spring, MD
I have some personal reflections of that series as well. For the middle games my wife was on a work trip in Chicago and my youngest son was ~18 month old at the time. I remember trying to put him to bed in the crib and him wailing away and I had to keep running back and forth from the TV to his room; my hazy memories are watching the home half of the extra innings in Games 4 and 5 holding and rocking him, trying to get him to sleep then moving him to the crib during the MFY at bats, until he started wailing again.

Then my wife returned before game 6 or 7 with a gift for the kids of a plastic plate and cup setting with the Cubs logo. I remember thinking, “You are bringing THAT into OUR house in the middle of ALL THIS?? It could’ve ended in divorce if the series went differently.
 

Minneapolis Millers

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,753
Twin Cities
What was the single moment where it changed? What was the single moment where the tides shifted from, "It's going to go tits up at some point" to "we're winning this f%&#ing game"?
....

So now I look back and I wonder, where did that paradigm shift? Part of me thinks it was Ortiz's first inning home run in Game 7. The Yankees had a bit of momentum going with throwing Damon out at home, and immediately Ortiz shuts it down
Similar for me. We’d been burned too many times, defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. But I think I really started to think, “Holy shit, we’re doing this!” when Damon hit the granny.
 

grsharky7

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,243
Berlin, PA
What was the single moment where it changed? What was the single moment where the tides shifted from, "It's going to go tits up at some point" to "we're winning this f%&#ing game"?

It wasn't until the beginning of Game 7 that I allowed myself to even briefly think the Sox might complete the comeback. Up until that point it was "just don't get swept" or "just don't lose in Boston"

Flash forward a decade and I knew, deep down I knew, that the Pats were coming back from 28-3. And even though I was biting my nails watching Kimbrel struggle in Game 4, I knew they were going to rip the Yankees' hearts out.

So now I look back and I wonder, where did that paradigm shift? Part of me thinks it was Ortiz's first inning home run in Game 7. The Yankees had a bit of momentum going with throwing Damon out at home, and immediately Ortiz shuts it down
Might be cliche, but I'd say when they ruled Arod out on the slap play. That never happened back in those days (but did twice that night) and I started to believe maybe they would come back. I felt the Yankee fans were cracking when they littered the field with crap later in that inning, it was as if the fans and the team was staring into the abyss and they couldn't believe it. Of course all of that could've been erased by Tony Clark in the 9th, but alas Foulke fanned him and the rest is history.

Nothing will ever compare to those four days, the stars aligned for the most perfect event in the history of sports and it just happened to be our team.
 

Ale Xander

Hamilton
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
72,449
Good thing the brain trust went with this fat guy from the Twins over Jeremy Giambi in spite of his paternally Large strike zone. Great pickup. Every thing he does after this is gravy.
 

ToeKneeArmAss

Paul Byrd's pitching coach
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Thanks for the comments and shared memories. The videos with the WEEI overlay of games 4-7 are so much more enjoyable than the Fox coverage. That said, I'd pay a lot for HD versions. I wonder why you can't find them for sale on disc?
 
Last edited:

Minneapolis Millers

Wants you to please think of the Twins fans!
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,753
Twin Cities
You know, it was a nice little comeback there to start the 9th, but that was a huge squander, 1st and 3rd with one out. Cabrera with a brutal K. Bases loaded for Ortiz. And Rivera gets him for the 2d time in the game. Blech.
 

Unin10D

New Member
Feb 7, 2017
257
Similar for me. We’d been burned too many times, defeat snatched from the jaws of victory. But I think I really started to think, “Holy shit, we’re doing this!” when Damon hit the granny.
Yeah thinking back on it, that was the moment where I thought, "Holy shit, we actually might do it!" I think I was still jaded from the year before because I wanted a bigger lead. But where 2003 saw Mussina shut them down, 2004 saw Javier let them blow it open
 

RoDaddy

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 19, 2002
3,245
Albany area, NY
Damon's slam was the "this is really happening" moment

Didn't realize Pedro was hitting 95 and 96 - I only remember him struggling

What Yankee employee idiot played "New York, New York" at the end of the game while the Sox were celebrating?!

Great moment when John Henry and Theo hugged - and they both looked so young
 

jaytftwofive

New Member
Jan 20, 2013
1,182
Drexel Hill Pa.
Espn showed Game 4 and from midnight to 1 they are showing the 30 for 30, Four Days in October. I never get tired of that one. It's not the best but it's my favorite. Bias of course. The best one I believe is Survive and Advance- about the 1983 NC State team coached by Jimmy V.
 

jaytftwofive

New Member
Jan 20, 2013
1,182
Drexel Hill Pa.
Damon's slam was the "this is really happening" moment

Didn't realize Pedro was hitting 95 and 96 - I only remember him struggling

What Yankee employee idiot played "New York, New York" at the end of the game while the Sox were celebrating?!

Great moment when John Henry and Theo hugged - and they both looked so young
And at the end of game 6 they played Liza Minnelli's version, lol. Remember that?
 
Last edited:

Oil Can Dan

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2003
8,015
0-3 to 4-3
I’ve never had a more abrupt change of emotions then when Damon was called out at home followed by the first-pitch Ortiz HR in Game 7. Went from “FUCK not again” to “FUCK YES WE’RE DOING THIS”.

PS - Damon was safe.
 

jaytftwofive

New Member
Jan 20, 2013
1,182
Drexel Hill Pa.
What was Trot Nixons moment?

And at that moment tim mcCarver says this game favors the Yankees due to depth.
Speaking of Trot, everybody talks about Mueller's tying hit in Game 4 but not many people talk about Trot's clutch hit in game 5 that sent Roberts from 1st to 3rd. Then a Sac fly tied it, but if it wasn't for Trot's hit???
 
Last edited:

scottyno

late Bloomer
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2008
11,305
Game 5 was so much more terrifying than Game 4, I remember being 100% convinced that they were going to lose the ALCS on a player rounding the bases on 4 passed balls in the 13th because Tek couldn't figure out how to catch a knuckleball.
 

jaytftwofive

New Member
Jan 20, 2013
1,182
Drexel Hill Pa.
It's a tough question. I think the biggest play of the entire series may have been Trot's single in the 8th inning of game 5. The Sox were still in a position to lose the series until that hit. Once the Sox had the tying run on 3rd with no outs, even against Rivera, it felt like the tide had turned.
Thanks i just posted about that. I didn't see your post yet before I posted. Agree that hit was huge.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
Espn showed Game 4 and from midnight to 1 they are showing the 30 for 30, Four Days in October. I never get tired of that one. It's not the best but it's my favorite. Bias of course. The best one I believe is Survive and Advance- about the 1983 NC State team coached by Jimmy V.
quite a time switching back and forth from WS game 1 to ALCS game 4. At one point, Embree came in to pitch oin both games at the exact same time!. Anybody have an idea why all of NESN's rebroadcasts were/are in 4:3 SD (with the NESN bars down the side), but ESPNs of Game 4 last night was wide HD?
 

ngruz25

Bibby
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
18,972
Pittsburgh, PA
It's interesting to see how much pitching has changed in the last 15 years, and in particular relief pitching. I'm not sure either team had one guy that could hit the upper 90's, and now those pitchers are a dime a dozen in MLB bullpens.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,676
Maine
quite a time switching back and forth from WS game 1 to ALCS game 4. At one point, Embree came in to pitch oin both games at the exact same time!. Anybody have an idea why all of NESN's rebroadcasts were/are in 4:3 SD (with the NESN bars down the side), but ESPNs of Game 4 last night was wide HD?
Fox has been stingy with the HD broadcast footage. First time I ever saw it was when they replayed a couple of the games a few weeks ago. I'm surprised ESPN was able to obtain it.

Or maybe Fox charges more for the HD and NESN is notoriously cheap. They re-aired a game a couple weeks ago from 2005-2006ish in which DO read a promo that the game was broadcast in HD "where available" yet the replay was airing in SD format. In other words, they had to have had HD footage but weren't using it.
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,163
What Yankee employee idiot played "New York, New York" at the end of the game while the Sox were celebrating?!
When they started playing that song and the Sox were piling on each other, McCarver said "Start Spreading The News" in a very subdued tone.

A small fringe benefit of 2004- getting to knock off McCarver's Yanks and Cardinals in the same playoffs!