I can express this no better. The golden days did have to end at some point, but Kraft’s monumental ego makes it hard to imagine how and when the dark days will give way.
Jaguars Game Goat Thread
- Thread starter jsinger121
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Just go give Ben Johnson the bag. If you want some old is new move, Scott Pioli is ready!
But really, I agree with this. They are a JV operation all around. I have been on the "give Mayo 2 years+" train, but if they don't show some progress as a staff, might not be possible.
I hear you. But lots of organizations promote from within or use a succession plan. Sometimes the guy who succeeds the CEO flames out. And even when they do, history can reveal that person can play an important role sort of flushing the remnants of the previous regime away and all the sentimentality associated with “the good old days.” Which is to say, Mayo/Wolf totally bombing may be what the team needs to take a totally different approach to roster construction and team building.
In the meantime, this is far from a wasted season. Replacing Bill and Tom was always going to be challenging. But maybe, just maybe, they have Brady’s replacement. If this season ends with a successor being identified at the game’s most important position, it will have absolutely been a success.
This is is where I think comparing to non-sports is a mistake. NFL teams hold GM searches for and let that GM choose his coach specifically because owners of are all guys who have lots of money and know nothing about football. Most companies do not hire all their major execs on a decisions from a person who known basically nothing about the job.
This is doubly frustrating because one of the major selling points for bringing in Maye should be that since the Pats now have a QB that can make deep passes, opposing defenses should be backing up off the line which opens things up for the running game.
It's just frustrating when the proposed solution is "just do something different".
The guys available where we took Polk haven't really set the world on fire. Would it be better? I guess. But we simply don't know that. Without naming names, it allows you to simply pick and choose any of the 5 OL prospects you deem best.
As far as FA, they did go after a few guys. They didn't wanna play here. Saying "pay them more" is a solution, but I don't know if it is a valid one.
So your argument is that Wolf did his best and there’s not a single player they could have signed who would be better than what’s on the roster today and nobody they could have drafted at 37 would have been better than Polk?
Weird stance tbh.
On the plus side, another nice game from Boutte. Someone that most of us saw as being a camp-cut is now looking a bit more like that dynamic receiver that had promise . A lesson in patience, especially in a non GFIN year.
AVP - Predicatble play calling allowed Jusr Average Guys DC to stack the cards against us. What ... probably 80% 1st downs were runs up the gut?
HH leading receiver, Maye leading rusher not a blueprint to success.
Punt return TD happens, I'm not ready to bury special teams
Mayo saying pats are "Soft" .. well that means you are soft Jarod. He's a rookie too like Maye but he needs to "Stiffen"
Start coaching positions 23-53
HH leading receiver, Maye leading rusher not a blueprint to success.
Punt return TD happens, I'm not ready to bury special teams
Mayo saying pats are "Soft" .. well that means you are soft Jarod. He's a rookie too like Maye but he needs to "Stiffen"
Start coaching positions 23-53
1.) R. Kraft
2.) J. Kraft
I thought these two guys were smart and learned from the Parcell's situation.
I guess not.
They fired the greatest coach in NFL history to "Get their team back" and installed/appointed their hand picked replacement. Didn't like the way they came to that decision then, like it even less now.
I can't put Mayo or Wolf in the game goat category. It's painfully obvious Mayo is in way over his head, can't blame him for not having the chops to pull this off. Not sure if Wolf is in the same boat, but so far, his first draft on his own is not showing much promise outside of the QB, I guess you could call that a win.
To go into the season with this horrible offensive line is GM malpractice.
Someone here mentioned maybe empty seats would prompt Kraft to make changes; what empty seats? If season ticket holders start to bail, division home games will be played to full houses.............houses full of Jets, Bills, Dolphins fans. Depending on what divisions they play in the AFC or NFC, the stands will be full of fans of other teams.
Empty seats won't be the problem.
2.) J. Kraft
I thought these two guys were smart and learned from the Parcell's situation.
I guess not.
They fired the greatest coach in NFL history to "Get their team back" and installed/appointed their hand picked replacement. Didn't like the way they came to that decision then, like it even less now.
I can't put Mayo or Wolf in the game goat category. It's painfully obvious Mayo is in way over his head, can't blame him for not having the chops to pull this off. Not sure if Wolf is in the same boat, but so far, his first draft on his own is not showing much promise outside of the QB, I guess you could call that a win.
To go into the season with this horrible offensive line is GM malpractice.
Someone here mentioned maybe empty seats would prompt Kraft to make changes; what empty seats? If season ticket holders start to bail, division home games will be played to full houses.............houses full of Jets, Bills, Dolphins fans. Depending on what divisions they play in the AFC or NFC, the stands will be full of fans of other teams.
Empty seats won't be the problem.
Whoever gameplanned that first quarter that briefly seemed to be putting the Number One pick next year into danger.
This is the most disappointing part. Ownership is critical to a successful sports franchise. Belichick and Brady are unicorns for staying with the same org and keeping them at an elite level for 20 years. Typically, the teams that maintain regular stretches of playoff appearances are those with good owners. Coaches and players come and go, so an owner that spends money, hires good leadership, and stays out of the way of sport decisions, usually leads to long term success. Kraft always seemed to embody these traits so I was confident whenever the Brady and Belichick years ended, it was more likely they would put together another successful group.
That’s not entirely fair. Kraft has plenty of money. He was a fan before an owner. I think it would bother him greatly if the Pats turn into the Charges and sell plenty of seats but to the other fan base.
Thanks for this.
This is not a good look for a head coach.
"Mayo said he's "not sure" what has led to the Patriots becoming a "soft" team. "
White, Wise, Godchaux (their guy they re-signed), Uche, Ekuale, Jennings, Tavai…this should at least be a competent, competitive unit, even if they are not setting the world on fire or even average. These guys are showing flat out regression.
I understand some very good players are gone, but this is not a new phenomenon. Players are hurt all the time. These guys were at least competitive and not getting run on by 2nd and 3rd string RB 20 times in a row.
The D "only" allowed 17 points, really. 8 on the punt return, and then another 7 after the offense turned it over on downs at their own 10 yard line. But man, Jax was just so damned efficient all game long.
Lawrence: 15-20 (75%), 193 yds, 9.7 y/a
Rushing offense: 39 att, 171 yds, 4.4 y/a
New England had 0 sacks and 0 QB hits. Never once touched Lawrence.
Lawrence: 15-20 (75%), 193 yds, 9.7 y/a
Rushing offense: 39 att, 171 yds, 4.4 y/a
New England had 0 sacks and 0 QB hits. Never once touched Lawrence.
Yep, it was. A 3-4 relies on either 3 beefy guys on the line and edge rushing from choice of LBs, or go a little smaller and faster on the line to move the rushing to the DE position and LBs primarily focus on run stuffing in the gaps or pass coverage. Barmore's blood clot battle, combined with Bentley's injury, kills the scheme, and they do not have the depth to recover or effectively rescheme.
Oh, and for anyone about to grump about Wolf not signing more FA D-line talent, the pickings were slim, and many re-signed with their original team. https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2024DT.php
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Christian Wilkins, Arik Armstead, AShawn Robinson, Sheldon Rankins, DJ Reader, Bilal Nichols, Malcolm Roach, Denice Autry, Tim Settle, Foley Fatukasi
There’s a lot of guys from impact starter to quality role player who were available and changed teams. Even ignoring Wilkins, the big ticket, those are guys who are useful low end starters. Others are quality backups. All of them I believe have experience in odd fronts.
The idea that none of those guys would have been better than Pharms or Ekuale is ludicrous.
interior DL would have been literally the easiest place to find a 1-2 year solution as a quality depth piece.
Instead, they relied on a 27 year old practice squad guy (Pharms), Armon Watts and Ekuale who has been on the team long enough to know he’s a 30 year old fringe NFL guy.
I really wanted them to sign Fatukasi. One, because he's a good player, and two, because he's a great guy. He only signed with Houston on a one-year deal, and it's not like he puts up big "stats", but he's a good player and will be a FA after this season.
Whoever had the idea to move Onwenu back to RT
The one positive the OL had last week is they shored up the IOL, so Maye could at least step up when the tackles got smoked.
Just leave Thomas at LT like last week, then both your tackles are terrible but the IOL is ok.
Instead they moved the bad RT to be a bad LT, move the really good RG to passable at best RT, and introduced another problem at RG.
They messed up at OT, and injuries/quitters only made it worse, but sticking Onwenu out there isn't a solution.
I see a lot of defense of Wolf saying, he wasn't going to be able to fix everything in a year. I agree. But could he fix a couple things?
He stayed and picked Maye at 3, he gets credit for not trading out of there. That's the most important move he can make. But, could he have fixed anything else? Just maybe one other thing?
He was left with picks near the top of every round, gobs of cap space. and only one really bad contract in Juju.
He grabbed Maye, huge hit so far, win for him. Still way too early to tell on the rest of the draft but a rough start.
Then with all the money he spend a huge portion of it re-signing a bunch of guys brought in by apparent idiot no-nothing former GM Bill Belichick.
The rest he spent on
Jacoby Brissett
Chuks Okorafor
KJ Osborn
Austin Hooper
Sione Takitaki
Nick Leverett
Antonio Gibson
Armon Watts
Jaylinn Hawkins
and left the rest of the money in their pockets
Then they dicked around with Matthew Judon and waited for him to show up the first time head coach before finally moving him for probably the exact same return they could've had earlier.
Has he fixed anything else? I get he can't fix everything at once, but is it ok to think maybe he could've fixed one more thing with all those resources? I'm not sure who he should have signed/drafted for the NAME NAMES crowd, but maybe he could've just had one more hit in there somewhere?
I'm not saying he should be fired, but I don't think he needs to be defended on his work so far. It's off to a really rough start, though like any other GM if his QB is a hit the rest of the work will be papered over quite a bit.
The one positive the OL had last week is they shored up the IOL, so Maye could at least step up when the tackles got smoked.
Just leave Thomas at LT like last week, then both your tackles are terrible but the IOL is ok.
Instead they moved the bad RT to be a bad LT, move the really good RG to passable at best RT, and introduced another problem at RG.
They messed up at OT, and injuries/quitters only made it worse, but sticking Onwenu out there isn't a solution.
I see a lot of defense of Wolf saying, he wasn't going to be able to fix everything in a year. I agree. But could he fix a couple things?
He stayed and picked Maye at 3, he gets credit for not trading out of there. That's the most important move he can make. But, could he have fixed anything else? Just maybe one other thing?
He was left with picks near the top of every round, gobs of cap space. and only one really bad contract in Juju.
He grabbed Maye, huge hit so far, win for him. Still way too early to tell on the rest of the draft but a rough start.
Then with all the money he spend a huge portion of it re-signing a bunch of guys brought in by apparent idiot no-nothing former GM Bill Belichick.
The rest he spent on
Jacoby Brissett
Chuks Okorafor
KJ Osborn
Austin Hooper
Sione Takitaki
Nick Leverett
Antonio Gibson
Armon Watts
Jaylinn Hawkins
and left the rest of the money in their pockets
Then they dicked around with Matthew Judon and waited for him to show up the first time head coach before finally moving him for probably the exact same return they could've had earlier.
Has he fixed anything else? I get he can't fix everything at once, but is it ok to think maybe he could've fixed one more thing with all those resources? I'm not sure who he should have signed/drafted for the NAME NAMES crowd, but maybe he could've just had one more hit in there somewhere?
I'm not saying he should be fired, but I don't think he needs to be defended on his work so far. It's off to a really rough start, though like any other GM if his QB is a hit the rest of the work will be papered over quite a bit.
And what makes you think that these top-ish tier guys would want to sign in NE/ and-or were not contacted by the Pats and said "No thanks:?
Edit- Armstead, for instance, I believe the Pats were said to be in on- but went to a team with a lot more talent (even though the results going into today were the same).
Jennings has been pretty decent. The one guy they paid who seems to be earning his extension (perhaps Dugger as well).
The rest of those guys aren’t very good. Uche has always been one dimensional. Ekuale is a low end backup at best. Wise and Tavai are JAG that BB elevated. Godchaux is ok at what he does (not sure why they extended him though)
The defense has regressed because Bb and Steve B aren’t here to get “B level” production from “C level” players. Entirely predictable. Why anyone thought Mayo or Covington could continue to squeeze lemon aid out of some of these lemons is unknown. Tavai is a good example, guy is a very limited LB who was a huge bust in Detroit. What’s more likely? BB found a way to hide his many flaws and use him in a way to emphasize his strengths? Or Tavai became faster, smarter, stronger and better?
I dont know what they show on TV (because I’m typically at the game) but some Sundays this year there have been more empty seats than people in the 300s. It was the same way at the end of last season, except folks came to the Jets game because of the BB rumors (which turned out to be true). Even if the tickets are sold, people are not going. That will get to Kraft at some point,
A lot of those guys signed in mediocre to bad places.
Most of those guys are veterans bordering on journeymen. Useful role players who go wherever offers them the most money.
The idea that players only sign on good teams is so overrated around here. Literally 3 of the four biggest free agent contracts last off-season signed on teams which were bad (with Cousins being the exception)
Is the idea that Bilal Nichols, Malcom Roach or AShawn Robinson unable to be swayed by an extra 3-4M or an extra year on the contract? Really?
It's not worth it. Too many here are spoiled by 20 years of hand picking free agents that they are not used to having to choose from the scrap heap. It's likely Polk's fault.
Allegedly they in fact did not get outbid on at least 2 maybe 3 major targets. Those guys just chose less money with other teams (Smith, Aiyuk, Ridley)
It’s a rebuild without any actual building other than Maye. I guess Gibson and Slye (though neither are likely to be long term pieces)
Handing out short term contracts to dumpster dive type rejects, not getting any contributions from the draft beyond Maye and making some questionable decisions on re-signs/extensions. It was almost a total failure of an off-season. He’s lucky Maye is looking good so far. It will probably buy him 2 more off seasons
Goes to point A- where there was a better opportunity.
EDIT - it was an edit, so you may not have seen it. Brought up Armstead as an example. Jax has a lot more talent on the roster, so I could see it as a better landing spot. Same as Ridley. The fact that the FO didn't sign these guys doesn't mean that they didn't put in the effort-- that was all I was trying to say.
There’s plenty off the “scrap heap” that would have been upgrades to the roster.
There’s also plenty of non-scrap heap guys who went to terrible teams.
Carolina and Washington had no problems signing guys to improve their roster. The Giants and Raiders signed some. Tennessee spent a lot.
But I guess New England was uniquely terrible and couldn’t lure anyone here except Sione Takitaki and Chuks Okorafor
Of course, maybe if they had brought in a real head coach with bona fides or a coordinator who was exciting (Kingsbury) they could have lured a few more players
Maybe if Kingsbury didn't turn them down, they could have attracted more talent. I argue, yes, the Pats were uniquely terrible and ill-equipped to recruit even medium-grade talent.
Yeah, the Patriots used to be the team that guys came (or stayed) for a little less to get a shot at a ring, or some other benefit.
Kraft has to realize that he has to pay more to attract quality coaches and players given the state of the organization.
Yeah, players are going to..:checks notes….Tennessee, Carolina, Las Vegas, New York Giants and Carolina for rings.
Carolina spent 258M on free agents last off-season (21 players)
Tennessee spent 238M (18 players)
Washington spent 167M (33 players)
New England spent 135M (17 players) including re-signing Onwenu, Bourne, Uche, Jennings, Reagor
One of those things is not like the other despite all those teams being awful last year and unknown this year (no proven elite QB or big name head coach)
you have to interview quality coaches to get them. No top coordinator is coming here to be the sacrificial lamb under the owner's hand-picked rookie HC with a bad roster
You can't say you got outbid, when you didn't bid at all.
I don't recall hearing any talk of the Pats bidding on any of those guys that were listed.
The Pats have plenty of guys who are pretty decent, but the problem is that they're also the best players the Pats have at those spots, which means they're woefully undermanned. But if they had a handful of top-tier players at those spots, the guys they do have would slot in very nicely and they'd have good depth too.
Like, their D-line isn't very good when Wise and Godcheax and White are their best players. But when Barmore is there and if they added one more really good DL (ahem, Judon), suddenly they have plenty of quality and depth.
Now do this for a bunch of other positions, including WR, where a WR corps of a true WR1 + Bourne + Douglas + Boutte is pretty solid compared with what they have now.
Like, their D-line isn't very good when Wise and Godcheax and White are their best players. But when Barmore is there and if they added one more really good DL (ahem, Judon), suddenly they have plenty of quality and depth.
Now do this for a bunch of other positions, including WR, where a WR corps of a true WR1 + Bourne + Douglas + Boutte is pretty solid compared with what they have now.
Because this team needs talent anywhere they can find it? Beggars/Choosers
I was including HC in a position that he has to pay for. Can’t just go on the cheap and promote a guy that’s obviously not ready because he didn’t want to pay a $10 clause in a contract.
He needs to understand that he's going to have to part with some of it to pay/get top quality coaches to come here and free agents to sign here.
He hired from within with some of his coaches vs sweeping things clean and getting all new sets of eyes in here to retool the whole thing; if you fire a coach (and we all knew the load of BS about a mutual parting of the ways was just that, BS), you should also shitcan most if not all of his staff, that's usually how these things work.
The run defense was arguably the best in the league last year, it's one of the worst this year, that is definitely not a problem they inherited
They could and should have spent more in free agency but that's only part of the story. Having 35m in cap space isn't unprecedented or that far off the league average. Its when you combine that kind of cap usage with (a) also having above average dead cap and (b) also being above average in terms of players on PUP/IR/exempt list that it becomes crippling. The Pats currently have 142m in players on the active roster, which is dead last in a league that averages about 180m. The teams they played the last two weeks are both around 192m.
None of this is to excuse Wolf. That the Pats had above average dead money should have created incentives to spend toward the cap, not to save. And while he couldn't have predicted the injuries/suspensions, the Pats are above average in that regard but not near the top.
Overall even if you're spending and drafting wisely (which we're not), its hard to compete with 142m in players on your roster against teams with 192m in players on theirs.