Is there anyway to see how he did against Jokic? I think I saw him have him on a handful of possessions.
Jaylen Brown re-signs for 4 years/$115 million
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Here's some highlights from last night. Love how he just keeps attacking the rim, punishing guys who are smaller and even shooting the jump hook over Thompson. The 2 blocks were sweet as well, if he's going to defend the 4 it would be nice to see more of that.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hSsiON6xT0
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hSsiON6xT0
That bounce pass to Hayward in transition... just brilliant vision. He’s had a few of those this year. Up to 1.9 assists/game - not huge but still his career high. The big difference I’m seeing is his body control and court awareness.
That’s allowing him those successful moves in the paint but also greater opportunities for passes to open teammates
That’s allowing him those successful moves in the paint but also greater opportunities for passes to open teammates
I have not seen anyone take a charge from Jaylen this year, so it can't have happened many times if at all. He's picked up a few offensive fouls, but all that I have seen are plays where he gets called for shoving his defender out of the way. He basically never gets out of copntrol in a way that allows a defender to step in and take the charge. On drives into defenders he is all about varying speed and direction.
Agreed, it's been huge (a deliberate Euro step) and since Jaylen is so explosive it's even more tricky/effective. All of us that have watched the games see this, know its next level stuff and JB is still flying below the radar as far as national NBA media coverage.
It feels like he has two goto moves at avoiding charges:
(1) the deliberate Euro-step to the rim
(2) quick stop/step back 10' fade away
The confident way he's finishing at the rim, even against bigger defender, is most impressive. As is his forays into middle of the lane, where he uses his length and jumping ability go take and make turnarounds or floaters.
Earlier in the season, I was lamenting that Siakem had figured out how to use his strengths and put together an effective offensive game, and Jaylen hadn't yet. Well he has, and he's still got more growth to his game, especially passing the ball.
All credit to Ainge for hitting home runs on both his number 3 picks. Around half of the 3s picked the past two decades have been average NBA players at best. Picking two that were able to mesh with a winning team right away as teens, and then quickly grow into what looks to be long time NBA all stars, is quite a feat, especially looking at the garbage picked right after them both by the Suns.
Earlier in the season, I was lamenting that Siakem had figured out how to use his strengths and put together an effective offensive game, and Jaylen hadn't yet. Well he has, and he's still got more growth to his game, especially passing the ball.
All credit to Ainge for hitting home runs on both his number 3 picks. Around half of the 3s picked the past two decades have been average NBA players at best. Picking two that were able to mesh with a winning team right away as teens, and then quickly grow into what looks to be long time NBA all stars, is quite a feat, especially looking at the garbage picked right after them both by the Suns.
He absolutely abused both Garland and Sexton anytime there was a switch. Almost felt bad for those two little dudes
He's at 73% from the line this year. This is after about 65% over his first 3 years (back of envelope math, just eyeballing the data). I am guessing that was a focal point for him in the off-season... if he can not be an OGG liability going to the line (before there was hack-a-Shaq, there was hack-OGG in CYO leagues), it is a huge positive. I would imagine it gives him even more confidence going to the rim.
It's hard to imagine that his assist numbers will ever be huge, even though his passing is clearly a lot better. The main reason for that IMO is that when Jaylen Brown has the ball in good positions, the best person to take the shot is...Jaylen Brown.
And even when he does make a passing error, it is now more in the realm of "good idea poorly executed" rather than the old "I dribbled into three guys with my head down and threw the ball away because I didn't know what else to do."
If you retroactively applied current Jaylen's game to a pre-draft scouting report, the differences between it and his real pre-draft scouting report would be stunning.
His drive control has been one of the big gains. I wonder if he's learned from both Hayward and Kemba that you don't need to go to the rim at full tilt the whole way all the time. It's been interesting - and thrilling - to see how Kemba and Hayward use their quick first steps to get around their defenders, but then put them on their hip so they know exactly where the defender is at all times.
Interesting...I was thinking of posting the same thing. He’s another level of athlete, which lets him do stuff within 10 feet that a lot of people just can’t.
That said, there is clearly a ton of room for progression. He doesn’t turn the ball over in traffic much, but still will often drive as far as he can and then make a basic pass out if it doesn’t work, at which point the advantage is lost.
His improvement to this point makes me optimistic that he can slowly improve in that regard ala Kawhi (another mechanical, efficient offensive player who has very gradually learned to read the floor better).
Did you copy/past this from the Kawhi thread 5 years ago? So many similarities to their games at a similar age.
I've been repeating since last year about the leaps he is taking and how I expected him to be busy come All Star weekend. The more I hear people talk about "Most Improved Player" the more I want to bang my head since I will always be adamant that his leap took place LAST year and was masked by the teams overall dysfunction coupled with fewer opportunties with the ball in the hands of Kyrie, MaMo, Rozier, etc.
I've also been on the Kawhi-comp train (offensively).
Jaylen's improvement last year was definitely there, and definitely masked by Ainge's Folly. However, the handle improvements this year are to another level. I think if the 2018-19 team had been normal, we'd be talking about this year as a solid progression, rather than the quantum leap everyone thinks it is.
Celtics are the younger Clippers
Jaylen (23) = Kawhi (28)
Tatum (21) = Paul George (29)
Smart (25) = Beverly (31)
Jaylen (23) = Kawhi (28)
Tatum (21) = Paul George (29)
Smart (25) = Beverly (31)
Smart being only 25 always feels strange. It feels like he's been on the team forever
It doesn't help that Smart looks like he's 35, what with the slight beard and round face and all. If he wasn't in basketball, I think he'd have put a few hundred thousand miles on his 18-wheeler last year.
He had a rough start to last season (~ pre 12/31), and it was probably due to a combination of hand injury/rotation uncertainty/team chemistry. But after Jan.1, you are correct, he played much better. By February many of us (I recall lovegtm in particular) were getting on Brad to increase Jaylen's minutes at the expense of MaMo. So I think the majority of MBPC saw the improved play after the New Year. BUT there is no denying he has taken even another step this season with his handle, strength, post moves, rim attacks, FT shooting and ball movement (new personal best in assists last night).
As far as Most Improved Award, his counting and efficiency numbers are massively up across the board (see below) from last season and that's how that stuff is judged.
I agree with the Kawhi comps more than the Jimmy Butler comps. I don't care for Butler's pound the ball and go solo act, Jaylen has really bought into ball movement, cutting without the basketball and team play.
The only criticism I have of Jaylen is his on-ball defense against off guards/pg. I believe he has outgrown the 2-spot, he's almost too big to chase around Hield, Beal, Brogdon, etc. The good news is he's developing into an excellent modern-day 4. I like him guarding the opponents' largest wing and believe he has the strength to handle Centers in rotation.
I really hope he and Tatum are both busy during All-Star weekend. AND I bang my head against the wall when people start with the Brown > Tatum garbage. To me that's so 2018-19, both are great/special and developing, neither is close to their ceiling at the moment.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/brownja02.html
https://stats.nba.com/player/1627759/
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I’m not sure I follow either the Kawhi or Butler comps. At similar points in their careers both were significantly better players with significantly more consistent track records of improvement. Brown doesn’t really have many good comps I can think of. Thus far in his career, the guy who comes the most to mind is Parsons, but Parson’s career obviously got derailed by injuries and an apparent loss of focus on basketball, so he’s not a good lens for thinking about what Brown will be in another 3 years.
Depends what you mean by "this point in his career" when you mean Jimmy Butler. 23 y/o Jimmy Butler was a 2nd year player and wasn't very good. 4th year Butler was a first-time All Star, but also 2 years older than Brown is now. And Brown's stats this season are comparable to Butler's 4th year stats.
Kawhi did not make his first All Star appearance until his 5th year, but was probably overlooked by the voters in his 4th season. Kawhi was always really good when adjusting for his usage, however, so may not be the best comparable.
Kawhi did not make his first All Star appearance until his 5th year, but was probably overlooked by the voters in his 4th season. Kawhi was always really good when adjusting for his usage, however, so may not be the best comparable.
This rookie will never be good! Why, he’s barely touching Ichiro’s rookie numbers!
To throw away age comparisons and use league experience instead, you have to have a really good justification imo, like Siakam starting basketball late.
If I showed any person Brown and Butler’s trajectory through age 23, by any metric, they’d pick Brown and laugh you out of the building otherwise. Any other analysis is pure hindsight using what we now know about Butler.
Any thoughts on the struggle last night? One of those days? Struggles against Size? A good team?
Thats the second Philly Game (granted one was game 1) that he struggled mightily in.
He also struggled badly against Brooklyn. Is there a similarity between Brooklyn and Philly? Is Brooklyn considered "Big/long"?
Thats the second Philly Game (granted one was game 1) that he struggled mightily in.
He also struggled badly against Brooklyn. Is there a similarity between Brooklyn and Philly? Is Brooklyn considered "Big/long"?
Philly is not a great matchup for him. Jaylen can disappear in games and that's always been a concern about him for me. Especially in a game where Tatum is not hitting shots, he should demanding more of a workload.
A lot of things. He got weirdly into attacking Thybulle 1-on-1, which isn’t an advantage matchup. The team also didn’t have a strong gameplan for methodically attacking Philly, which hurts him more than others. And of course he seemed to float in the game and not be as engaged—there were a couple bad defensive possessions, like the one where Neto just beat him easily.
Totally agreed. He also has a tenancy to get down on himself when things are not going well which further inhibits his overall level of consistency.
Also, I don’t want to be a broken record, but the East has so many weird ways that Team C matches up with Team Y (among the top 6 teams) that it’s going to be hard to draw big conclusions from their regular season games.
My only real takeaway in this one for Jaylen was that he has no advantage on Thybulle, and has a big one on the Sixers’ lesser wings. There are dozen more granular facts like that that will go into the actual gameplanning if/when these teams meet in the playoffs.
With Hayward back they don't run a ton of plays for Jaylen, so he's let with just picking up the odd opportunity here and there which further detaches him from the flow of good opportunities. For the next Sixers game will be interested to see if they try to get him more involved early.
Those last two posts cover what I saw. A set Thybulle isn't an advantage matchup for anyone. JB tried to push an advantage, which isn't necessarily a bad thing at this stage once or twice, but it didn't go well.
Mostly a length thing.
And they're still seeing a little residual GH/JB overlap. If I were Brad, I'd keep an eye on that.
Mostly a length thing.
And they're still seeing a little residual GH/JB overlap. If I were Brad, I'd keep an eye on that.
Jaylen had one of the best games of his season against Brooklyn scoring 25 on 9-15 shooting. In the back end of the home-and-home he shot 4-8 against the same lineup. It seems more like a case of him not being as aggressive in the second meeting as opposed to any matchup problems against the Nets which is evidence for several CELTICS players versus the Sixers.
I wasn't able to catch the game but I'm expecting Jaylen to take on more and more defensive responsibility against teams with size like Philly. He had a dud game offensively but also led the team with 41 minutes. The roster is lacking in strength and he has it this year, just from the box score and shot distribution it looks like the plan was to have Kemba, Tatum, Hayward, and Kanter generate offense while Brown, Theis, and Ojeleye dealt with Philly's size on the other end.
Yeah I noticed that too in the first half. It seemed like Thybulle got under his skin, and Brown was trying to show him up. He kind of lost his cool, and the end result wasn't great.
JB getting a nice shout out for his paint prowess in Zach Lowe’s 10 Things column today:
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28313228/ten-nba-things-like-including-philadelphia-76ers-big-question
Seems as the season goes on, he's trying to involve others more. His assist % was right around last year's % until the last 4-5 games. Last year, he was at 7.7%, this year at 11.4%.
Over the last 5 games, he's average 4.0 assists. 8 assists, 2 assists, 0 assists, 5 assists, 5 assists. It would be something if he did turn into a Jimmy Butler level passer. I hate the comparison but it's scary how similar their arcs are, except Jaylen is doing it at a younger age.
Over the last 5 games, he's average 4.0 assists. 8 assists, 2 assists, 0 assists, 5 assists, 5 assists. It would be something if he did turn into a Jimmy Butler level passer. I hate the comparison but it's scary how similar their arcs are, except Jaylen is doing it at a younger age.
I’d be pretty surprised if his passing doesn’t get at least decent in the next 1-2 years. Improving his handle really slowed the game down for him, and he’s seeing more opportunities as a result. That sort of thing tends to compound a bit. He’s also just a smart, hard-working player who seems able to substitute hard work for innate BBIQ.
Brown's season 4, age 23: 33.5 minutes, .503/.373/.747, 19.9 points, 7.0 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1.1 steals, 1.9 TO.
Butler's season 4: age 25: 38.7 minutes, .462/.378/.834, 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 1.4 TO
Brown's season 4 rates: 11.1% rebounding, 11.4% assist, 1.6% steal, 1.0% block, 10.4% TO%, 23.5% usage.
Butlers season 4 rates: 8.2% rebounding, 14.4% assist, 2.3% steal, 1.0% block, 7.7% TO%, 21.6% usage.
Similar, but a little different. As Brown's handle improves, you'd expect the assist rate to increase and the TO% to decrease. His career it's gone from 12.5% to 12.1% to 10.1% to 10.4%.
Love that Jaylen is shooting 75% from the line too.
Butler's season 4: age 25: 38.7 minutes, .462/.378/.834, 20.0 points, 5.8 rebounds, 3.3 assists, 1.8 steals, 1.4 TO
Brown's season 4 rates: 11.1% rebounding, 11.4% assist, 1.6% steal, 1.0% block, 10.4% TO%, 23.5% usage.
Butlers season 4 rates: 8.2% rebounding, 14.4% assist, 2.3% steal, 1.0% block, 7.7% TO%, 21.6% usage.
Similar, but a little different. As Brown's handle improves, you'd expect the assist rate to increase and the TO% to decrease. His career it's gone from 12.5% to 12.1% to 10.1% to 10.4%.
Love that Jaylen is shooting 75% from the line too.
Agree with the above, but it’s always been unclear to me why people don’t compare Butler to other guys by age. It’s not like he started playing basketball at 18 or something. Early in the 2nd contract is when a lot of young wings improve, and Butler gets (imo) an unfair boost for starting late.
Put another way: if you showed any NBA executive 23 year-old Jaylen Brown and 23 year-old Jimmy Butler (without hindsight), approximately 0 of them would say: “oh yeah, give me Butler, he’s only in his year 2 season.”
Kawhi and Paul George, on the other hand, are much more apples-to-apples comparisons with Jaylen: they both were drafted as one-and-dones.
Kawhi and George both played 2 years in college. I agree with you about Butler and the age bonus. I also think it's annoying when people start using Siakam and Butler as norms and not exceptions re: development.
But we hope our players will be exceptional, so it makes perfect sense to compare them to other exceptions.
He’s shooting ~75% from the line this season. If he can get that to 80%+ he’s pretty much unstoppable.
I’m not sure I follow here? He shoots 4 FT a game right now, so going from 75% to 85% is worth a little more than 30 points over the course of a season...
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