Jaylen Brown's 2020-21 Season

chilidawg

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They were supposedly playing Fournier through his Covid-related recover so that, even if it cost them performance in the regular season, he'd be as sharp and as integrated into the team's schemes as possible by playoff time. Wouldn't that same logic mean that we should have rested Jaylen more, at the expense of regular season performance, so he'd be in better shape for the playoffs?
Hard tellin' not knowin', eh?
 

HomeRunBaker

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They were supposedly playing Fournier through his Covid-related recover so that, even if it cost them performance in the regular season, he'd be as sharp and as integrated into the team's schemes as possible by playoff time. Wouldn't that same logic mean that we should have rested Jaylen more, at the expense of regular season performance, so he'd be in better shape for the playoffs?
There is always immense pressure placed on the medical teams to clear players so they can be out there performing. I don’t see this Celtics staff as being any different in that if a guy is physically able he’s cleared and all Brad can go by is what the medical team says.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Has there been any indication in the reporting that Boston's medical staff may have exacerbated Brown's injury? I have not seen anything but I really only read one piece.
 

Cellar-Door

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Has there been any indication in the reporting that Boston's medical staff may have exacerbated Brown's injury? I have not seen anything but I really only read one piece.
I doubt it. Far more likely is Brown said he felt fine to get to 58 games and get his extra money. He ended on exactly the number of games he needed.
 

BigSoxFan

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I doubt it. Far more likely is Brown said he felt fine to get to 58 games and get his extra money. He ended on exactly the number of games he needed.
What's the extra money? Are you referring to the 58 games that you need to qualify for statistical leaders? This year, wouldn't that be number be 50 games anyways since it's a 72 game season and not 82?
 

lovegtm

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What's the extra money? Are you referring to the 58 games that you need to qualify for statistical leaders? This year, wouldn't that be number be 50 games anyways since it's a 72 game season and not 82?
It was an incentive in his contract.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I doubt it. Far more likely is Brown said he felt fine to get to 58 games and get his extra money. He ended on exactly the number of games he needed.
Good catch. That's interesting. The incentive was for $482,143 according to Spotrac.
Wouldn't the incentive be 57 games?

65 games played out of 82 comes out to just a hair over 57 in 72 games. They gotta round down right?
Probably not. It's a line the player has to meet so 57 wouldn't meet the line. 58 would.
 

NomarsFool

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The impact on this season obviously sucks, but it's also discouraging that this will certainly impact his offseason - at least to some degree. He's a hard worker, and I'm sure he'll do what he can to work around it, but your wrist is a significant part of many things he'd be doing in the offseason both from a strength training perspective but also continuing to hone his game.
 

radsoxfan

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Has there been any indication in the reporting that Boston's medical staff may have exacerbated Brown's injury? I have not seen anything but I really only read one piece.
I won't get into the 58 game issue, only Brown knows for sure on that.

As far as the injury itself, I would say it's mildly surprising at first glance he is suddenly out for the season and having surgery. This isn't like a fully torn ACL or Achilles that is an automatic season ender immediately no matter what, in all situations.

Long term these injuries can be problematic and lead to arthritis if untreated (SLAC wrist if anyone is super excited to see some pictures... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4141341/), but sometimes people will try to play through it and deal with it in the offseason.

Not saying surgery isn't reasonable or needed in his case, perhaps he has known about this for awhile and has already tried to play though it. Perhaps the imaging was so convincing it's unstable and they pretty much know resting won't do anything and they feel he needs surgery ASAP.

But I do wonder if the Celtics were a top 3 seed and a strong contender for a title if he would be going with the exact same plan. It's his non shooting hand, would it be unreasonable to rest it another week or two and see how he feels? Depends on some factors we really can only guess about, so hard to say for sure.

Oh well....Nesmith time I suppose.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Apparently Brad said Jaylen was having gradual pain build up in his wrist and was in for imaging on his ankle so they imaged the wrist too and found the injury.
 

radsoxfan

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Apparently Brad said Jaylen was having gradual pain build up in his wrist and was in for imaging on his ankle so they imaged the wrist too and found the injury.
Wow....stay away from those MRI machines.

I hope jaylen is getting 2nd and 3rd opinions on this. Not that I expect there to be an incorrect diagnosis, but these injuries are often tricky. These guys should always be getting multiple opinions.

Also, unless he has a previous wrist MRI, it's entirely possible the tear has been there awhile and not even the primary cause of his most recent symptoms.
 
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DGreenwood

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So if he's been grabbing at his wrist since April 15, why do we keep running him out there? Sorry, but that just seems to be inviting a worse injury. I know it's the end of the season, and the Celts are trying to win a good playoff spot, but that doesn't sound like good injury management. Maybe we should be resting guys who are (mildly) hurt before they become (badly) hurt?
Romeo played through the same injury last year until he pulled his groin. That's when they shut him down and got a head start on the surgery and recovery. Maybe it's the type of thing that isn't going to get worse?
 

Imbricus

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Romeo played through the same injury last year until he pulled his groin. That's when they shut him down and got a head start on the surgery and recovery. Maybe it's the type of thing that isn't going to get worse?
Maybe it's just a calculated roll of the dice: that there's a small % chance that it'll get worse, but a much larger chance that it won't. And they just got unlucky. But if there's weakened/damaged tissue that needs to heal, it seems risky. Anyway, I may be too conservative to make it as an NBA trainer. Still, if there was a season when they could have sat him, it seems it would be this one. They weren't getting through Philly/New Jersey/Milwaukee anyway.
 

radsoxfan

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Should they do an MRI from the back as well as the front?
Maybe there is a joke/sarcasm I'm missing, but there is no such thing as an MRI from the front or the back. You see the entire body part you are imaging with every protocol we do.

Imagine the body part is a loaf of bread and we take a bunch of slices to look at the anatomy inside. Once you've sliced the entire loaf, there is nothing else to see.
 

radsoxfan

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Maybe it's just a calculated roll of the dice: that there's a small % chance that it'll get worse, but a much larger chance that it won't. And they just got unlucky. But if there's weakened/damaged tissue that needs to heal, it seems risky. Anyway, I may be too conservative to make it as an NBA trainer. Still, if there was a season when they could have sat him, it seems it would be this one. They weren't getting through Philly/New Jersey/Milwaukee anyway.
I do wonder if JB would be having season ending surgery right now if the Celtics were a strong title contender. If he really has an acute full thickness tear with instability they might recommend immediate surgery regardless, but all of these tears are not automatic season enders. There are acute on chronic injures, scarring, partial tears, etc.

There is some small risk of things getting worse if you wait a month or two, but people do play through this injury sometimes, especially non-shooting hand. In some circumstances it wouldn't be unreasonable to wait a couple of weeks to see if the pain improves and then decide.

Without his MRI or the full clinical story there is no way to know the details here, but it sounds like the decision has already been made. All we can hope now is that he is 100% good to go at the start of next season.
 

bakahump

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@radsoxfan As always thank you for your insight and expertise.

(sorry if I missed this earlier)

Is there any danger to this procedure? (beyond "any operation has risks.....look at Gronks infection....") As a non shooting hand is there any possibility of this hindering Browns career LT in your opinion?
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Maybe there is a joke/sarcasm I'm missing, but there is no such thing as an MRI from the front or the back. You see the entire body part you are imaging with every protocol we do.

Imagine the body part is a loaf of bread and we take a bunch of slices to look at the anatomy inside. Once you've sliced the entire loaf, there is nothing else to see.
I believe, in the Tacoby days, there was an issue with a rib that was missed because it was claimed that the MRI was only done "from the front". It became a thing here for a while.... and man, the fact that I can bring up Tacoby references means that I have been here for a while.
 

radsoxfan

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@radsoxfan As always thank you for your insight and expertise.

(sorry if I missed this earlier)

Is there any danger to this procedure? (beyond "any operation has risks.....look at Gronks infection....") As a non shooting hand is there any possibility of this hindering Browns career LT in your opinion?

I doubt it. This particular ligament tear, if it's a complete tear and it's untreated long term, can lead to instability and arthritis (the "SLAC wrist" I mentioned above).

As you alluded too, any surgery is going to have some risk of infection, excess scarring, chronic pain, etc. But generally speaking I wouldn't expect this to be a long term issue.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I do wonder if JB would be having season ending surgery right now if the Celtics were a strong title contender. If he really has an acute full thickness tear with instability they might recommend immediate surgery regardless, but all of these tears are not automatic season enders. There are acute on chronic injures, scarring, partial tears, etc.
I know you were asking a rhetorical question but I agree with you that the Cs probably made the business decision that it's better to get him to have surgery now and hopefully have him ready for next year than to try to waste a month or so chasing something that is very unlikely, particularly given his other physical issues.
 

radsoxfan

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I know you were asking a rhetorical question but I agree with you that the Cs probably made the business decision that it's better to get him to have surgery now and hopefully have him ready for next year than to try to waste a month or so chasing something that is very unlikely, particularly given his other physical issues.
The C’s and/or Jaylen.

Maybe the wrist was just the straw that broke the camel’s back.

He’s been out with a knee injury, ankle injury, and now the wrist.

Add in a disappointing season for the team (not him) and he may just be ready to commit to surgery and being healthy next year.
 

Jimbodandy

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I do wonder if JB would be having season ending surgery right now if the Celtics were a strong title contender. If he really has an acute full thickness tear with instability they might recommend immediate surgery regardless, but all of these tears are not automatic season enders. There are acute on chronic injures, scarring, partial tears, etc.

There is some small risk of things getting worse if you wait a month or two, but people do play through this injury sometimes, especially non-shooting hand. In some circumstances it wouldn't be unreasonable to wait a couple of weeks to see if the pain improves and then decide.

Without his MRI or the full clinical story there is no way to know the details here, but it sounds like the decision has already been made. All we can hope now is that he is 100% good to go at the start of next season.
Probably some truth to your theory that a legit path to a title may have influenced the decision differently. I will add though that his offhand is pretty important too. His handles are important to his game, and not being able to go and finish left, he'd basically be closer to Nesmith than himself imo.
 

radsoxfan

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Probably some truth to your theory that a legit path to a title may have influenced the decision differently. I will add though that his offhand is pretty important too. His handles are important to his game, and not being able to go and finish left, he'd basically be closer to Nesmith than himself imo.
Definitely, his off hand still is very important.

Just pointing out that his injury/treatment plan has the potential to be more nuanced than some automatic season enders.

Obviously plenty of injuries like a torn Achilles, quad/patella tendon, ACL are no doubt surgery and season ending no matter what.

Sounds like Brown had a sore wrist that wasn’t getting better and spur of the moment got an MRI because he was getting one on his ankle anyway.

I’m not sure immediate season ending wrist surgery would be the decision in all circumstances here (I.e. if the Celtics were a 1 seed, Jaylen has been otherwise healthy, etc) , though I’m flying mostly blind without the actual MRI of course.