Jayson Tatum Needs His Own Thread

OurF'ingCity

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Don’t you need 8 years of service to get that?
The terminology is confusing but being named 3rd team All-NBA does allow Tatum to sign a “rookie supermax” extension this offseason if he wants (which allows the Cs to offer him as much as 30% of the cap, as opposed to other rookies to whom they can only offer a max of 25%).
 

BigSoxFan

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The terminology is confusing but being named 3rd team All-NBA does allow Tatum to sign a “rookie supermax” extension this offseason if he wants (which allows the Cs to offer him as much as 30% of the cap, as opposed to other rookies to whom they can only offer a max of 25%).
Ah, thanks. So, he can get 30% now and 35% in a few years?
 

The Social Chair

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Don’t you need 8 years of service to get that?
A designated rookie can sign for either four or five additional years but must be offered a maximum salary starting at 25 percent of the salary cap. They can additionally agree to a “supermax” deal that climbs above 25 percent to a maximum of 30 percent, but that player will need to qualify by reaching one of three criteria:

  • NBA Most Valuable Player for 2019-20 or 2020-21.
  • Defensive Player of the Year for 2019-20 or 2020-21.
  • All-NBA first, second or third team twice over the three years prior to the extension’s first season, or the most recent season before the extension begins.
 

Kliq

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Should we expect Tatum to sign a super max this off-season, similar to how Jaylen signed his contract before this season? I don't want to go through a whole season of thinking about Tatum's impending free agency. All signs point to Tatum wanting to stay in Boston and the Celtics should be willing to offer him the super max...right?
 

The Social Chair

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Should we expect Tatum to sign a super max this off-season, similar to how Jaylen signed his contract before this season? I don't want to go through a whole season of thinking about Tatum's impending free agency. All signs point to Tatum wanting to stay in Boston and the Celtics should be willing to offer him the super max...right?
There is a little chance he leaves after his rookie deal is up. You don’t need to worry until 2025.
 

Euclis20

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Siakam 2nd team is cute
2nd team all nba means that you are, give or take, a top 10 player in the NBA. You could make a decent argument that Siakam wasn't even a top 10 player in the Raptors/Celtics series.

I also really don’t understand voting before the playoffs are over, particularly for the NBA where playoff performance is so critical to how a player is thought of historically.
I suppose the point is not to punish players who don't make the playoffs, but I don't really think that's a good argument. Agreed that the playoffs is where reputations are made, there isn't a good reason for not having season awards (like all nba teams) include those.
 

DJnVa

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I suppose the point is not to punish players who don't make the playoffs, but I don't really think that's a good argument. Agreed that the playoffs is where reputations are made, there isn't a good reason for not having season awards (like all nba teams) include those.
It's a good point, but no sport does this.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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They really need to get rid of positions, or at least the center position, on the All-NBA teams.
Anthony Davis making the first team as a “center” despite not wanting to be a center all year (JaVale McGee started 68 games this year) is pretty funny.
 

Euclis20

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It's a good point, but no sport does this.
Yeah it's just the way it's done, but when I sit down and think about it I really don't know why. Maybe it makes more sense in MLB or even NFL where a lot fewer teams make the playoffs, but more than half of the league makes the playoffs in the NBA. I'd say the fact that Bradley Beal isn't on the list above is proof enough that you have to make the playoffs to have a good shot at all-NBA, but who knows.
 

nighthob

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Should we expect Tatum to sign a super max this off-season, similar to how Jaylen signed his contract before this season? I don't want to go through a whole season of thinking about Tatum's impending free agency. All signs point to Tatum wanting to stay in Boston and the Celtics should be willing to offer him the super max...right?
Yeah, Boston is signing him to one of those five year rookie max extensions with the proviso that it's a 30% max if he meets the criteria (which is all-NBA next year). They want him luring players to Boston, and getting one of those 30% deals out of the gate essentially means that he's here so long as the management's good.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Ah, thanks. So, he can get 30% now and 35% in a few years?
Essentially, yes, assuming he keeps making All-NBA teams.

Yeah, Boston is signing him to one of those five year rookie max extensions with the proviso that it's a 30% max if he meets the criteria (which is all-NBA next year). They want him luring players to Boston, and getting one of those 30% deals out of the gate essentially means that he's here so long as the management's good.
He doesn't have to meet any criteria next year if he signs the extension this offseason - he already gets the 30% by virtue of making 3rd-team All-NBA this year. If he turns down the extension, then he'd have to make the All-NBA team next year to qualify for a supermax following that year. Which is strong incentive for him to sign the extension - if he turns down the extension and then gets hurt or something he'd have sacrificed a shitton of money. The only possible reason he might want to wait is because the contract max is determined by the cap in the year the contract is signed, so if the cap plummets this year Tatum might risk waiting a year in the hope that the cap, and thus the size of contract, would materially improve after the 2020-21 season. But the most likely scenario is that he signs the 30% rookie supermax this offseasons like basically everyone who is offered one does, which would lock Tatum up through the 2026-27 season.
 

nighthob

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I used to think that, too. However someone here pointed out that it's the year before the extension kicks in, which is '22. I accepted that interpretation, but I'm open to it being incorrect. But it's a moot point as he's making 1st or 2nd team next year.
 

DGreenwood

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If he signs the extension this off-season he's eligible for the rookie supermax. If he waits until next off-season he'll have to make all nba again next year (next year wouldn't matter if he had made all nba last year).

edit: I thought I had a link that stated this definitively but I can't find it so I'm open to the possibility I'm wrong.
 
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djbayko

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2nd team all nba means that you are, give or take, a top 10 player in the NBA. You could make a decent argument that Siakam wasn't even a top 10 player in the Raptors/Celtics series.



I suppose the point is not to punish players who don't make the playoffs, but I don't really think that's a good argument. Agreed that the playoffs is where reputations are made, there isn't a good reason for not having season awards (like all nba teams) include those.
I'm fine with it. There are awards for individual achievement in the playoffs. No other sports include playoffs in their regular season awards either, probably for the same reason - to not punish great players on shit teams.
 

Euclis20

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I'm fine with it. There are awards for individual achievement in the playoffs. No other sports include playoffs in their regular season awards either, probably for the same reason - to not punish great players on shit teams.
That's the thing though, in the NBA all of the great players make the playoffs. When was a last time any of the major award winners (MVP, DPOY, 1st team all NBA, 1st team all Defense) didn't make the playoffs? The voters are already taking into account who does and doesn't make the playoffs. LeBron slipped off the 1st team last year for the first time since 2007, all the way down to 3rd team. All 15 guys on the list above made the playoffs, as did all 10 guys that made the all defense teams. If the awards took the playoffs into account all it would do is take playoff performance into account, the only players that get penalized are those the play poorly in the playoffs. I don't have a problem with that at all.
 
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lovegtm

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That's the thing though, in the NBA all of the great players make the playoffs. When was a last time any of the major award winners (MVP, DPOY, 1st team all NBA, 1st team all Defense) didn't make the playoffs? The voters are already taking into account who does and doesn't make the playoffs. LeBron slipped off the 1st team last year for the first time since 2007, all the way down to 3rd team. All 15 guys on the list above made the playoffs, as did all 10 guys that made the all defense teams. If the awards took the playoffs into account all it would do is take playoff performance into account, the only players that get penalized are those the play poorly in the playoffs. I don't have a problem with that at all.
In addition, playoff basketball is a qualitatively different game in a way that simply isn’t the case in baseball or football.

It turns out that things that are different have differences and need to be looked at differently.
 

DJnVa

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That's the thing though, in the NBA all of the great players make the playoffs. When was a last time any of the major award winners (MVP, DPOY, 1st team all NBA, 1st team all Defense) didn't make the playoffs?
That's because half the league makes the postseason. I'd wager is much the same in the NHL where so many teams qualify.
 

Jimbodandy

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It's so ridiculous that he took passing from a question mark prior to the bubble to a strength of his game, and it barely registered on anyone's radar.
It's really next-level stuff. Kid is such a hard worker and a sponge that nothing surprises us anymore with him.

And he still has some upside with the passing, handle, and first step IMO. Probably more ceiling in his floater game too.
 

BaseballJones

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The rebounding piece is amazing. Last 7 games he's averaged 11.3 rebounds per game. (to go with 25.1 points and 5.7 assists)

When did he become this monster on the glass?
 

lovegtm

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Is it just me or is anyone else hoping to see a few more of these tonight?
Yeah, he honestly needs to get to this more often. Luka and Harden have shown that there’s very little practical limit to stepback volume, and Tatum is probably better at that specific skill than either of them.

I’m ecstatic at how rapidly he is rounding out the rest of his game, but if Jayson Tatum ever wins an MVP, it will likely be with him shooting 10+ 3s per 36.
 

NomarsFool

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It seems like it has dropped off quite a bit, at least to my untrained eye. Maybe it's a factor of more intense playoff defense - no idea. I feel like he has been taking more well beyond the arc 3s, which I'm not super fond of.
 

NomarsFool

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The rebounding piece is amazing. Last 7 games he's averaged 11.3 rebounds per game. (to go with 25.1 points and 5.7 assists)

When did he become this monster on the glass?
I think some of it is logging more minutes, and I think some of it is less internal competition (playing less with Kanter and Theis). But, he has definitely picked it up, that's for sure.
 

Euclis20

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Yeah the minutes have picked up but possessions go down in the playoffs, and on a per possession basis his rebounds have shot up. He averaged 9.8 rebounds per 100 possessions in the regular season, up to 12.8 rebounds per 100 possessions in the playoffs. His scoring, defense and [newly found] playmaking are getting more hype, but he's 8th in RPG in the playoffs and the only guy ahead of him who doesn't exclusively play center is Giannis. Super impressive.

You'd think it'd get more play considering his soaring offensive rebound/drawn foul on the missed FT in the Toronto series may have been the biggest play of the game, and what ultimately decided the series.
 

Kliq

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The game turned when Tatum came out of the half guns blazing. I thought at half time they showed a graphic of Tatum and Brown having almost identical stats, both like 4-10 with 10 points, and Pierce said that wasn't good enough. For Brown, I think that is a solid half, but I agree that Tatum had to step up. Tatum is the guy about to sign a $220 million deal, Tatum is the guy who can be a top five player and MVP candidate; if he is going to be all of that he has to go out shooting; and he delivered tonight.

Perhaps this is a bit of a hot take, but part of me feels like Tatum is a little too unselfish at times. I think he really wants to take the optimal shot each time down the floor; which is great 90% of the time, but in the playoffs, when you face disciplined defenses and teammates may be limited, you have to be a little selfish. Even during his bad first half in Game 4; he was only like, 0-6 at the half right? He has to be comfortable missing shots and he should be taking 10-15 shots in the half, or taking a lot of free throws, no matter how hot or cold he is. I think Durant at times has struggled with this as well; someone so gifted offensively but mentally beholden to taking only good shots; which in turn allows less gun-shy teammates, like Smart or Westbrook, to take more shots than they probably should.

I think Kawhi Leonard's Game 7 from the ECSF is a perfect example of a star player having to be selfish. Kawhi went 16-39 in that game, and on the box score that looks ugly, but if you watched the game, it was actually an amazing performance from Kawhi and that he really had to take all of those shots for his team to win, even if he shot a lousy percentage.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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That take isn't hot. Its elemental.

This round of the playoffs is typically so tightly contested and those right plays aren't there anyway so the stars have to carry the load. This team only goes far as Tatum is capable of taking them.
 

riboflav

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That take isn't hot. Its elemental.

This round of the playoffs is typically so tightly contested and those right plays aren't there anyway so the stars have to carry the load. This team only goes far as Tatum is capable of taking them.
Pierce said it best on Countdown tonight. Guys like Butler ( very, very good but not a superstar) can afford to be the fourth best option on the Heat at times and they'll still win playoff games (deep roster with lots of shooters). Tatum, as the Celtics are currently constructed, cannot enjoy this same privilege. Tatum took over in the third tonight.
 

lovegtm

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That take isn't hot. Its elemental.

This round of the playoffs is typically so tightly contested and those right plays aren't there anyway so the stars have to carry the load. This team only goes far as Tatum is capable of taking them.
Yup. We find out this series whether Tatum is one of the top 2 or 3 most precocious 22 year-olds in history, or whether he needs a year or two to become that guy.

Sometimes we need to remember that guys like Kareem, Bird and Duncan were still in college at his age. If he can elevate and somehow get through this series, we’re in scary territory. He showed a lot last night.