JDM

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Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
Why would Boras do that? And why would JDM agree with that plan?
Put it this way: what would result in a higher ultimate contract, starting out by saying that they're looking for 7/$210M, or starting out by saying they're looking for something more realistic like 6/$165M? Is there a plausible argument for the latter answer?
 

jon abbey

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Put it this way: what would result in a higher ultimate contract, starting out by saying that they're looking for 7/$210M, or starting out by saying they're looking for something more realistic like 6/$165M? Is there a plausible argument for the latter answer?
I think there is actually, I think the higher the price it is, the more it scares at least some teams off and sends them looking for other solutions. I'm not saying I know Boras' job better than him, but he definitely misread this market as badly as anyone.
 

soxhop411

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I think there is actually, I think the higher the price it is, the more it scares at least some teams off and sends them looking for other solutions. I'm not saying I know Boras' job better than him, but he definitely misread this market as badly as anyone.
Boras Bot needs to be reprogrammed with the latest CBA details... He is negotiating like its the old CBA MLB is under
 

OCD SS

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I think there is actually, I think the higher the price it is, the more it scares at least some teams off and sends them looking for other solutions. I'm not saying I know Boras' job better than him, but he definitely misread this market as badly as anyone.
But what’s the point of getting more teams involved if their bids still top out well below what you want (and can even reasonably get)? Do all of those little bids push up the eventual contract more than Boras pulling it up by starting with unnaturally high expectations?

I don’t know how much Boras misread the market; that requires knowing what he and his clients are actually trying to get. For all we know he told all his clients that ownership has more leverage this time and they can look forward to spending the winter up to and into ST trying to invigorate the market. Taking things this late may be a matter of him setting up future off-seasons and showing that players may be able to gum up the FA/ offseason works by not signing until after ST starts, or taking a weak FA class (one where he happens to rep all the top names) and using them to drive the Players Union against the CBA. Everyone not signing has certainly highlighted the perception that there’s inequality entrenched in the game’s pay structure.

The streamlining of player valuation has hurt his position, as have owners being less willing to negotiate directly over their own baseball ops departments. He simply doesn’t have a way to create and take advantage of divergent opinions on what a player is worth.
 

bankshot1

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Im heartened to hear Dave D is getting has java and free agent advice at Dunkin's. But I wonder if the pulse of RSN is any different at Starbucks than it is as Dunkins.
 

BigJimEd

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But what’s the point of getting more teams involved if their bids still top out well below what you want (and can even reasonably get)? Do all of those little bids push up the eventual contract more than Boras pulling it up by starting with unnaturally high expectations?
I think the danger is not losing "little" bids but that you risk losing competitive bids.

Say in your example, one team was thinking closer to 155. Boras comes in with 205. The team may know they can get him down but how much and how long will it take.
Meanwhile another FA gives them a much more reasonable offer. They sign the other FA preferring him than JDM at 205 or even 180. At 155 or 165 maybe it's a different conversation.

Now you've lost one potential bidder that could have helped push the bids up around what you reasonably expect.

That's not to say Boras screwed up here but I do think, in general, coming in too high can cost a player. There is certainly risk to the reward.
 

IpswichSox

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Boras spokesman Jon Heyman predicting JDM returning to Arizona. Foreshadowing or trying to provoke Dombrowski?

3. J.D. Martinez. The staredown with the Red Sox has been going on for weeks. And they certainly have a chance. But taking Martinez at his word, he’d rather play the outfield than DH and he absolutely loved Arizona, where he advised his childhood friend Alex Avila to sign and where they have hired his hitting guru Robert Van Scoyoc. As was reported on FanRag this week, they are working on creative ways to keep him. Prediction: Diamondbacks. Others: Red Sox, Blue Jays (long shot).
 

SouthernBoSox

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Heyman is such an absolute joke. It's so obvious and really pretty sad for a "journalist" to be used in such a way.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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Well, since he'll be able to play OF and with his best buddy, taking $18M for 2 years makes a ton of sense. Especially since the Sox only offers $70-80M more than that.
 

soxhop411

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Boras spokesman Jon Heyman predicting JDM returning to Arizona. Foreshadowing or trying to provoke Dombrowski?
If JDM wants to take less to go to Arz, thats only going to hurt Boras...
So go-ahead and be an idiot

And Heyman has been a Boras mouthpiece for like 8 years
 

Harry Hooper

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I can’t believe he gave the “mystery” third team away for Boras. This reeks of one final push for more money from Boras.
Good catch there by you. Boras can't even keep the mystery team narrative going at this point.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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All ploys to get DD to up his offer which isn’t happening. JDM isn’t signing for less money than Boston’s offering. This deal will get done. In this FA market, he’s lucky to even have a 5 year deal at $20 million plus on the table.
 

pinkunicornsox

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Oct 8, 2017
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Probably a stupid question but here goes. If JDM offer is between something really low from Arizona and 100 million dollars from Boston, it seems obvious he will take the Boston offer. Isn't there a chance though he is going to be bitter and perhaps become a distraction throughout the season? Maybe at this point instead of waiting for JDM to begrudgingly take the money and become a problem the Sox should just walk away
 

Jerry’s Curl

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Probably a stupid question but here goes. If JDM offer is between something really low from Arizona and 100 million dollars from Boston, it seems obvious he will take the Boston offer. Isn't there a chance though he is going to be bitter and perhaps become a distraction throughout the season? Maybe at this point instead of waiting for JDM to begrudgingly take the money and become a problem the Sox should just walk away
I think there’s a chance of that. Everything I’ve read about Martinez, however, suggests he’s a well-liked player and is appreciative for his career being revitalized so I’m not sure that will be a problem. Boras needs to explain to him the economics of the current market, not accuse Boston of being cheap.
 

Pozo the Clown

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Probably a stupid question but here goes.
I'll be gentle because unicorns are an endangered mythical species. This is NEVER a good way to begin a post on a forum whose cardinal rule is "don't suck."

Maybe at this point instead of waiting for JDM to begrudgingly take the money and become a problem the Sox should just walk away
By all accounts, JDM has been DD's #1 target. By all accounts, they've made a 9-figure offer which has been out there for months. So now, when the pressure on JDM is increasing (due to the clock ticking on Opening Day), they should walk away?!?
 

pinkunicornsox

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Oct 8, 2017
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If none of Boras's tactics work to increase the Sox offer and JDM blames the Red Sox for blaming him, regardless of weather that is the case or not, then yeah I can see a case where he can become a distraction. That being said Jerry Curl made some good points.
 

DGreenwood

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Probably a stupid question but here goes. If JDM offer is between something really low from Arizona and 100 million dollars from Boston, it seems obvious he will take the Boston offer. Isn't there a chance though he is going to be bitter and perhaps become a distraction throughout the season? Maybe at this point instead of waiting for JDM to begrudgingly take the money and become a problem the Sox should just walk away
I don't think this is a stupid question but I don't think we know enough about the negotiations or JDM's current mindset to know how seriously the Red Sox should be considering this.

I know that this correlates to general hiring practices in the real world. If I have a well qualified candidate for a job opening but his sense of what he's worth (right or wrong) is not in line with what I can pay for the position, that's a red flag for me. Even if he's willing to settle for lower pay because he needs a job, I'm going to be apprehensive. You want people who are happy with the opportunity and want to be there, not people who are settling.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Heyman took a shot at ESPN for not giving other reporter's credit. Buster responded with this....


Which makes me like Buster alot more than I did 5 minutes ago.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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While I agree with what you said, there’s external factors in play here which is the current state of the job market. Martinez hired Boras to get him the best deal possible. Unfortunately for him, he’s entered free agency in a terrible year. He might have been worth what he’s asking a year or two ago but teams aren’t shelling out that kind of money in 2018. Your prospective job candidate may get what he’s looking for somewhere else, but Martinez isn’t.
 

Pozo the Clown

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I know that this correlates to general hiring practices in the real world. If I have a well qualified candidate for a job opening but his sense of what he's worth (right or wrong) is not in line with what I can pay for the position, that's a red flag for me. Even if he's willing to settle for lower pay because he needs a job, I'm going to be apprehensive. You want people who are happy with the opportunity and want to be there, not people who are settling.
MLB is not the real world (this offseason is blatant proof of that). JDM is going to have to "settle" for something less than Boras' Binders say he's worth. Whether that's in Boston or Arizona or with the "Mystery Team." He's going to be playing baseball somewhere in 2018 and he's going to be paid upwards of $20M a year to do so. I'm fairly confident that he'll (at some point) get over the disappointment of not securing a $210M deal.
 

DGreenwood

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Your prospective job candidate may get what he’s looking for somewhere else, but Martinez isn’t.
I agree that a player under a five year contract is different than an At Will employee. But it isn't just the risk of them leaving that I worry about. A negative attitude can poison the well. Also it can affect performance.

But we have no idea what JDM's mindset is right now because all we know is what Boras has leaked. If JDM has instructed Boras to get the best offer he can and then he'll happily play for that team, then there is no issue. If he's really pissed at the Red Sox because they aren't showing him the respect ($) he feels he deserves, then that's something for the Red Sox to think about. I'm not saying it's a deal breaker, but it's a consideration.

Just to be clear, my guess is that JDM is not upset and what we are hearing is just posturing by Boras.
 

DGreenwood

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MLB is not the real world (this offseason is blatant proof of that). JDM is going to have to "settle" for something less than Boras' Binders say he's worth. Whether that's in Boston or Arizona or with the "Mystery Team." He's going to be playing baseball somewhere in 2018 and he's going to be paid upwards of $20M a year to do so. I'm fairly confident that he'll (at some point) get over the disappointment of not securing a $210M deal.
You are certainly right about the first part and most likely right that he'll get over it. But there is a chance that he won't and it could be an issue.
 

Jerry’s Curl

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When you sign Boras as your agent, the ego comes with it. There are many players who won’t hire Boras because they don’t think he’s worth all the drama that comes with the negotiations. Boras needs to show his future clients “see, I got my client more money even in a down market.” The question is how long is JDM willing to wait before he tells Boras to get the deal done with Boston? Boras is doing his job by trying to get his client the most money but if he’s reaching for something that’s not there out of pride, he’s actually hurting his client.
 
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Pozo the Clown

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Sep 13, 2006
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You are certainly right about the first part and most likely right that he'll get over it. But there is a chance that he won't and it could be an issue.
As with any human endeavor, there's always that chance. However, as DD's GM in Detroit for multiple years, DD has a wealth of insider knowledge as to JDM's personality, temperament, attitude, etc. I have faith that if DD isn't concerned about a potential JDM attitude issue, that SoSH shouldn't be either.
 

DGreenwood

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As with any human endeavor, there's always that chance. However, as DD's GM in Detroit for multiple years, DD has a wealth of insider knowledge as to JDM's personality, temperament, attitude, etc. I have faith that if DD isn't concerned about a potential JDM attitude issue, that SoSH shouldn't be either.
Agreed.
 

sean1562

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the guy made 11.75 mil last year. when does the prospect of basically double that become really appealing to this guy? there has to be some practical "i need a paycheck" considerations here no?
 

Maximus

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Heyman took a shot at ESPN for not giving other reporter's credit. Buster responded with this....


Which makes me like Buster alot more than I did 5 minutes ago.
Heyman is a Yankee and Boras honk. He was advocating that one of our players be suspended for the rest of the season in September for the Apple Watch sign stealing issue vs. the Yankees. He's a tool.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I’ve never associated Heyman with the MFY, just Boras. Olney openly talks about being a Yankee fan as a kid - if I recall correctly, he could get their radio feeds in Vermont - but I don’t think it particularly shows up in his writing. I also don’t find him to be a reporter as opposed to a columnist, so I don’t put a lot of weight into what he types.
 

bosockboy

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I’ve never associated Heyman with the MFY, just Boras. Olney openly talks about being a Yankee fan as a kid - if I recall correctly, he could get their radio feeds in Vermont - but I don’t think it particularly shows up in his writing. I also don’t find him to be a reporter as opposed to a columnist, so I don’t put a lot of weight into what he types.
Oddly enough he grew up a Dodger fan.
 

Sampo Gida

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the guy made 11.75 mil last year. when does the prospect of basically double that become really appealing to this guy? there has to be some practical "i need a paycheck" considerations here no?
At some point, yeah. First pay checks for 2018 are not cut for 2 months so he has some time. An extra year nets him 20 million or so, which makes losing a couple of checks for a million or so more bearable.

The guys a millionaire already and does not feel the same urgency as a normal worker does between jobs. If he loses his bet and takes a haircut he still is going to be very rich.
 

Hank Scorpio

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I’m wondering if the previously alluded to “inflexibility” of the Red Sox is related to them actually being inflexible in years/terms rather than strictly dollars. For example:

DD: “5/115”

JDM: “6/126?”

DD: “No.”

JDM: “5/110 with incentives to 5/127?”

DD: “No.”

JDM: “4/108?”

DD: “5/115”

I could see that being frustrating, if he’s just asking for a fairly reasonable accommodation. Not that this is the case, of course.
 
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