Josh Gordon Reinstated (Again)

Zedia

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It's not. It should be, IMO, but it's not (marijuana is still illegal throughout the US under federal law, even in states that have eliminated state laws against it).
Thanks, I wasn’t aware of if his issue was alcohol or marijuana or everything. I did think when he was in NE, not using alcohol was part of his reinstatement.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I want nothing but total recovery and peace for the guy, but I’m wondering how keeping him from playing football is helping in any way. Even if it’s a “tough love” kind of thing, I don’t see how that’s the domain of an employer, especially if it’s legal substances.
I'm not sure it's the employer's job to help. Ideally, they would. But the suspension or removal of an employee in this case is about how the player is portraying himself as a member of the NFL to the public.
 

Jungleland

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I want nothing but total recovery and peace for the guy, but I’m wondering how keeping him from playing football is helping in any way. Even if it’s a “tough love” kind of thing, I don’t see how that’s the domain of an employer, especially if it’s legal substances.
I'm with ya. Disgusting that something as simple as a beer on a team flight got him suspended one of the times and meanwhile Tyreek Hill is out there every Sunday as one of the most celebrated players in the league. I know some of Gordon's struggles have been with more serious substances than alcohol or weed, but even still I don't see what putting the guy out of work accomplishes.
 

cornwalls@6

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Agree with those questioning whether continuously taking his livelihood away from him is in anyway helpful or productive. To those here who have had successful recoveries(and much respect and admiration for that), what role did your work play in it? It seems the NFL has an ass backwards, puritanical policy, designed to assuage the tender sensibilities and moral outrage of John Q middle aged white guy watching on his couch every Sunday. And as noted above, that addiction is viewed as worse than domestic violence by the league and too many of its fans, is an indictment of both.
 
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Oppo

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In the medical field, licensing boards are heavily involved in matters of substance abuse with regard to conditions of employment.

He agreed to the conditional terms of reinstatement, whether you agree with them or not.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Agree with those questioning whether continuously taking his livelihood away from him is in anyway helpful or productive. To those here who have had successful recoveries(and much respect and admiration for that), what role did your work play in it? It seems the NFL has an ass backwards, puritanical policy, designed to assuage the tender sensibilities and moral outrage of John Q middle aged white guy watching on his couch every Sunday. And as noted above, that addiction is viewed as worse than domestic violence by the league and too many of its fans, is an indictment of both.
I didn’t work for 26 months except for one 5 month stretch. I had to understand that staying clean had to come first. Sure Josh could play football and work a program of recovery but he hasn’t. Getting suspended isn’t the reason he hasn’t stayed clean. We MUST fit our lives around recovery, not the other way around.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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I'm with ya. Disgusting that something as simple as a beer on a team flight got him suspended one of the times and meanwhile Tyreek Hill is out there every Sunday as one of the most celebrated players in the league. I know some of Gordon's struggles have been with more serious substances than alcohol or weed, but even still I don't see what putting the guy out of work accomplishes.
For an addict ONE beer leads to multiple uses of everything. One is too many a thousand never enough. Again might sound like a platitude but in my experience and what I’ve seen from others it’s 100% true if one is an addict.
 

cornwalls@6

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I didn’t work for 26 months except for one 5 month stretch. I had to understand that staying clean had to come first. Sure Josh could play football and work a program of recovery but he hasn’t. Getting suspended isn’t the reason he hasn’t stayed clean. We MUST fit our lives around recovery, not the other way around.
Appreciate the reply, and obviously defer to your experience and knowledge. Ultimately, I'm just sad for him that he is still, seemingly without success, battling these demons. I wish him all the best, but honestly, worried that he's heading for a tragic, early, end.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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Appreciate the reply, and obviously defer to your experience and knowledge. Ultimately, I'm just sad for him that he is still, seemingly without success, battling these demons. I wish him all the best, but honestly, worried that he's heading for a tragic, early, end.
As we all are. Addiction is an awful dilemma for us who are addicts. Our minds tell us we must get back to paying the bills, supporting the family and doing what many of us were unable to do during active addiction. But if we rush into that and don’t put the program first, we are “DOOMED“

“DOOMED” - the words of the late, *great* Joe C (aka Scoop) died in 2018 of liver cancer @ 64 with 32 years clean. Most encouraging human being I’ve ever met. Plus just about the funniest dude ever. Scrawny little guy who owned a bagel shop and then worked at Shop Rite for the last 10-15 years before he got sick. Humble guy who knew what mattered. Thinking about those who left us in the odd silent but beautiful Christmas Day.

Joe went down to the end and earned the infinity medallion.

Maybe Josh will meet some guys like Joe C
 

johnmd20

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Agree with those questioning whether continuously taking his livelihood away from him is in anyway helpful or productive. To those here who have had successful recoveries(and much respect and admiration for that), what role did your work play in it? It seems the NFL has an ass backwards, puritanical policy, designed to assuage the tender sensibilities and moral outrage of John Q middle aged white guy watching on his couch every Sunday. And as noted above, that addiction is viewed as worse than domestic violence by the league and too many of its fans, is an indictment of both.
I was in really bad physical shape at the beginning of my recovery, due to opiate withdrawal. (vicodin, mostly) But I went to work every day, and went to at least two meetings a day (one at noon, one in the evening) for over 3 months. Work was a constant, because I missed 3 weeks of it while I was in rehab.

But work helped me, it didn't hurt me. I took to my recovery with the same fervor I took to alcohol and drugs because I almost died and my option was get sober or jump off a building in shame and pain. Having something to do every day helped me keep a tight schedule. There were some tough days early on, but my support system at work was very very strong. I was very lucky and I am grateful.

But in my experience, it doesn't matter what you're facing externally. If an addict wants to get sober, they can do it no matter what. But if you don't want to get sober, you can have a dude shadowing you all day, every day, and it won't matter. It really is an inside job.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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I was in really bad physical shape at the beginning of my recovery, due to opiate withdrawal. (vicodin, mostly) But I went to work every day, and went to at least two meetings a day (one at noon, one in the evening) for over 3 months. Work was a constant, because I missed 3 weeks of it while I was in rehab.

But work helped me, it didn't hurt me. I took to my recovery with the same fervor I took to alcohol and drugs because I almost died and my option was get sober or jump off a building in shame and pain. Having something to do every day helped me keep a tight schedule. There were some tough days early on, but my support system at work was very very strong. I was very lucky and I am grateful.

But in my experience, it doesn't matter what you're facing externally. If an addict wants to get sober, they can do it no matter what. But if you don't want to get sober, you can have a dude shadowing you all day, every day, and it won't matter. It really is an inside job.
I’m sure if I had a job I would have tried to go to work but by October 2004, I was unemployed and thoroughly unemployable.

Not to be too graphic but crack, alcohol, opiates (Vicodin, Percocet, OxyContin etc.) are not a recipe for sanity. Lost everything except my wife. No car, arrests, probation, second bankruptcy was looming so not many employment opportunities for a 44 year old guy with taped up glasses and a torn sports jacket. Broken inside and out. Thoroughly damaged and in retrospect beaten to the ground.

I did not go in patient and got clean and stayed clean due to the above type of meeting attendance for about 2 years plus every thing that goes with it. I’ve been bringing a commitment to the local Jail or detox/rehab from 90 days clean every week up until March when the Covid nightmare hit.

I still make 5-6 meetings per week all these years later and have been at my current job for 12 1/2 years and have integrated back into society as a productive member of that society while still having recovery at the center of my life. Probably more important in 2020 than ever before due to the pandemic. Thank JAH for the zoom platform as I’ve not been to any in person meetings since 3/14/2020. If I wasn't connected who the hell knows what would have happened to me this year.
 
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johnmd20

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I’m sure if I had a job I would have tried to go to work but by October 2004, I was unemployed and thoroughly unemployable.

Not to be too graphic but crack, alcohol, opiates (Vicodin, Percocet, OxyContin etc.) are not a recipe for sanity. Lost everything except my wife. No car, arrests, probation, second bankruptcy was looming so not many employment opportunities for a 44 year old guy with taped up glasses and a torn sports jacket. Broken inside and out. Thoroughly damaged and in retrospect beaten to the ground.

I did not go in patient and got clean and stayed clean due to the above type of meeting attendance for about 2 years plus every thing that goes with it. I’ve been bringing a commitment to the local Jail or detox/rehab from 90 days clean every week up until March when the Covid nightmare hit.

I still make 5-6 meetings per week all these years later and have been at my current job for 12 1/2 years and have integrated back into society as a productive member of that society while still having recovery at the center of my life. Probably more important in 2020 than ever before due to the pandemic. Thank JAH for the zoom platform as I’ve not been to any in person meetings since 3/14/2020. If I wasn't connected who the hell knows what would have happened to me this year.
Congrats for all that you've accomplished in your sobriety. It's inspiring.
 

Old Fart Tree

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With the caveat that I’m not a doctor and don’t know anything, it seems to me that the way football ravages your body adds an almost impossible degree of difficulty to an attempt to get sober. It’s one thing to keep working a desk job while you commit to the program; it seems to be a completely different thing when your job is to go through a few hundred mini car crashes a week and then not take toradol, percocet, THC, or anything else for the pain that those ultra violent collisions produce.
 

Bowhemian

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That's unbelievable. I mean, I am rooting for the guy to succeed in life, but how many chances does he get under the NFL's policy?
 

Cellar-Door

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That's unbelievable. I mean, I am rooting for the guy to succeed in life, but how many chances does he get under the NFL's policy?
He should get as many as he wants. It is good for him to have support in trying to rehab and stay clean, it costs the league nothing to let him back after he completes treatment.
Though honestly the league shouldn't test for weed anyway, which leagues are realizing, as NBA and NFL are basically on the path of phasing out testing and punishment.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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That's unbelievable. I mean, I am rooting for the guy to succeed in life, but how many chances does he get under the NFL's policy?
Josh Gordon is a 30 year old professional athlete. Its hard enough for anyone to get sober - that many do is a major miracle - but it has to be orders of magnitude tougher, especially given the physical impact of his line of work. We should want anyone to keep trying to get their lives in order. Its far worse for everyone when people who are in addiction stop trying at all.
 

Jimbodandy

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Josh Gordon is a 30 year old professional athlete. Its hard enough for anyone to get sober - that many do is a major miracle - but it has to be orders of magnitude tougher, especially given the physical impact of his line of work. We should want anyone to keep trying to get their lives in order. Its far worse for everyone when people who are in addiction stop trying at all.
Good post.

To add to this, every success story of overcoming addiction gives hope. On the other hand, every time an addict hears "fuck that guy, he had his chances", it's discouraging. That includes our fellow members reading these posts.

Tl;dr; have some empathy
 

scottyno

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Josh Gordon is a 30 year old professional athlete. Its hard enough for anyone to get sober - that many do is a major miracle - but it has to be orders of magnitude tougher, especially given the physical impact of his line of work. We should want anyone to keep trying to get their lives in order. Its far worse for everyone when people who are in addiction stop trying at all.
If his being a professional athlete is making it harder and they want to help wouldn't a solution be to stop letting him attempt to play in your professional athletic league?
 

Cellar-Door

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If his being a professional athlete is making it harder and they want to help wouldn't a solution be to stop letting him attempt to play in your professional athletic league?
being unemployed without anywhere to go or have anything to do is much worse. Dealing with pain can trigger relapses, but at the same time, the structure of the job helps prevent them, and having a goal when you do relapse helps encourage treatment. Addiction is complex, most things will have positive and negative impacts. Overall though, it shouldn't be the NFL's place to decide whether a guy deserves or gets a second chance. Set out the process, if he follows them welcome him back
 

RorschachsMask

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As someone who had issues with addiction though most of my 20s, and have been clean for 5 years (not counting thc), I get legitimately excited for Gordon every time he cleans himself up and gets reinstated.

He should get every opportunity possible, because it’s something that drives him to try and get clean. It’s entirely possible that this could be the time he’s able to stay that way, you just never know when/if it’ll happen.
 

BigSoxFan

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being unemployed without anywhere to go or have anything to do is much worse. Dealing with pain can trigger relapses, but at the same time, the structure of the job helps prevent them, and having a goal when you do relapse helps encourage treatment. Addiction is complex, most things will have positive and negative impacts. Overall though, it shouldn't be the NFL's place to decide whether a guy deserves or gets a second chance. Set out the process, if he follows them welcome him back
Yup. He’s about to age out of the NFL. Let him continue to give it a go once he fulfills the requirements of the process. As always, I’m rooting for him. Was so fun to have him with Pats.
 

Ralphwiggum

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This guy was failed by every person of authority (teachers, coaches, etc) his entire life because they were too intoxicated by his athletic ability to ever actually help him deal with his underlying demons. He should get as many chances as he wants until he is not good enough to play in the NFL anymore. I wish him the best.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Also in 2021 the idea that any of us should care what kind of (non-performance enhancing) drugs any player is taking is weird. Drug use and abuse is rampant in every industry. We don’t give a second thought to what our favorite actor is snorting before he does a pivotal scene, but our Wide Receivers must be clean from all substances.

Addicts should be given support and treatment. The threat of losing a job isn’t going to keep one from using or not, as we have seen over and over again.

edit: it is 2021, not 2020.
 

johnmd20

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This guy was failed by every person of authority (teachers, coaches, etc) his entire life because they were too intoxicated by his athletic ability to ever actually help him deal with his underlying demons. He should get as many chances as he wants until he is not good enough to play in the NFL anymore. I wish him the best.
This is nonsense.

Addicts fail themselves. It is up to addicts to take care of themselves. He wasn't "failed" by anyone, except by his disease.
 

johnmd20

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Also in 2021 the idea that any of us should care what kind of (non-performance enhancing) drugs any player is taking is weird. Drug use and abuse is rampant in every industry. We don’t give a second thought to what our favorite actor is snorting before he does a pivotal scene, but our Wide Receivers must be clean from all substances.

Addicts should be given support and treatment. The threat of losing a job isn’t going to keep one from using or not, as we have seen over and over again.

edit: it is 2021, not 2020.
This, on the other hand, is not nonsense. Well put. You got half of the issue correct.
 

Ralphwiggum

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This is nonsense.

Addicts fail themselves. It is up to addicts to take care of themselves. He wasn't "failed" by anyone, except by his disease.
I‘m no expert regarding addiction or anything and maybe what you say is true. I just remember watching the video below and thinking that there were multiple figures of authority in his life who could have tried to get him help along the way but didn't because they didn't want to risk him being taken off the field or kicked off the team.

Maybe it more supports my second post, which is threatening an addict with losing a roster spot or a job isn't going to help him.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90YP4ntJUQs
 

johnmd20

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I‘m no expert regarding addiction or anything and maybe what you say is true. I just remember watching the video below and thinking that there were multiple figures of authority in his life who could have tried to get him help along the way but didn't because they didn't want to risk him being taken off the field or kicked off the team.
Didn't the Patriots basically give Gordon a shadow to keep him busy and also make sure he stays clean? That didn't matter. He got nailed for substance use.

Did the Patriots fail him? Addicts are often failed by the system. Gordon isn't one of them. He has been given multiple chances. And I hope he can pull it off. But if he didn't have the NFL behind him, he would likely be in a much, much worse situation in life. Gordon has another chance. He's had 5 or 6 chances. Many people don't get 1 extra chance.

And, obviously, smoking pot should not cause a player to lose his job. That is obviously ridiculous and is a lousy policy.
 

cheekydave

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Speaking as someone who is now 33 years clean, id give any individual as many bites at the apple as they want to take, within the rules of the game. If someone is willing to do that work, id let them. Most of us will fail, thats the nature of addiction, BUT SOME WILL MAKE IT, and you never know who or when or why. People are complex, and can really surprise you. I wish him well,and also to all others reading this who can identify either for themselves, or friends, or family etc.
 

Bowhemian

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I’m worried Bowhemian thinks people can’t change.
Perhaps you could review my post, where I wondered what the NFL policy was. I was under the impression that the NFL kicked players out of the league after x # of strikes. Clearly I was wrong.

With that said, at what point has Josh Gordon showed that he can change?
 

Jimbodandy

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Perhaps you could review my post, where I wondered what the NFL policy was. I was under the impression that the NFL kicked players out of the league after x # of strikes. Clearly I was wrong.

With that said, at what point has Josh Gordon showed that he can change?
You're just not listening, are you?

Every time that someone tries to change just might be the time that works. I tried to quit drinking for years before I pulled it off at 43. I'll be 10 years sober in January. I'm pretty fucking grateful that folks didn't write me off.
 

Dahabenzapple2

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I have no problem with the league giving him more chances. That said I think a TEAM would have to be insane to do the same
In my recovery fellowship it isn’t even a question that is asked. The *only* requirement for membership is the desire to stop using. Until an addict is willing to do whatever it takes to stop using that addict will continue to use. Outside issues, professions, family support, etc. have little or nothing to do with an addict getting clean and staying clean. With surrender everything is possible, without surrender nothing is possible.

I have no idea if Josh Gordon is an addict. He is the only one who can make that admission. Then it’s up to him to decide what what he wants to do about his problem. In my experience the only thing that has worked for me is following the example(s) of other recovering drug addicts. Not saying it’s the only way but I don’t know of another way.
 

johnmd20

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In my recovery fellowship it isn’t even a question that is asked. The *only* requirement for membership is the desire to stop using. Until an addict is willing to do whatever it takes to stop using that addict will continue to use. Outside issues, professions, family support, etc. have little or nothing to do with an addict getting clean and staying clean. With surrender everything is possible, without surrender nothing is possible.

I have no idea if Josh Gordon is an addict. He is the only one who can make that admission. Then it’s up to him to decide what what he wants to do about his problem. In my experience the only thing that has worked for me is following the example(s) of other recovering drug addicts. Not saying it’s the only way but I don’t know of another way.
Josh Gordon is an addict, man. Of that there is no doubt. We can easily make that proclamation. And it's not an insult to him.

But it is up to him about what he wants to do about his addiction.