I'm not suggesting Yam is going to take Pritchard's spot.The competition in Isreal is awful it's hard to take anything away from it. PP averaged over 5 assists a game in college. I guess we will see if it translates to the NBA game.
I'm not suggesting Yam is going to take Pritchard's spot.The competition in Isreal is awful it's hard to take anything away from it. PP averaged over 5 assists a game in college. I guess we will see if it translates to the NBA game.
As you mentioned upthread, Begarin is similar in body and athleticism as young Jaylen Brown. He looked good launching threes in the last video. With his athleticism, length, and motor, he would an intriguing add as an apprentice wing, but he’s probably still a year or two away.He looks less robotic.
My guess is that they bring in Begarin to begin working with Celtics staff in Portland next year. They definitely need more guard depth.Is he on the team next year? G league? Does he stay overseas instead of G league?
I'd guess there's a small chance Yam fills a spot too.
As you mentioned upthread, Begarin is similar in body and athleticism as young Jaylen Brown. He looked good launching threes in the last video. With his athleticism, length, and motor, he would an intriguing add as an apprentice wing, but he’s probably still a year or two away.
Since Begarin wasn’t locked into an international contract when he was drafted and available to sign immediately the Celtics would likely have to sign him using one of our 15 roster spots this summer or lose his rights. My hope would be that he could provide a rookie contract second unit contributor to some degree by his second year, the ‘23-‘24 season which shouldn’t be that difficult considering how limited/specific his role would be on a title contender.Is he on the team next year? G league? Does he stay overseas instead of G league?
I'd guess there's a small chance Yam fills a spot too.
Agreed, expect another year in Europe for the 19yr old.Begarin showing again this summer that he has the athletic tools to play in this league but lacks the polish to be there anytime soon….at least for a non-tanking team. I would have liked to see his game a little more developed than last summer but he looks like the same player to me. That’s not a good sign for a kid his age who you’d expect to make some type of leap.
I find it interesting that people feel that he hasn’t developed much in the last year and therefore he should go back to where he didn’t develop rather then stay here where they could supervise him more closely. I realize that there are a lot of variables to this decision, including maturity and fit. But I would be thinking long and hard about keeping him around.Agreed, expect another year in Europe for the 19yr old.
The C's don't want to start the clock, or guarantee money at the end of the roster.
He signed with Paris Basketball last year. I have no idea if they retain his rights. PB jumped up to the A league last year and is eligible for the Eurocup this season.Begarin might be better served to play for another team in Europe. This, from the recent Globe article on how the C's have stayed connected with him, was interesting:
The Celtics also remained in frequent contact with their 2020 second-round pick, Israeli point guard Yam Madar. But he plays for the Serbian power Partizan, which is guided by the legendary coach Željko Obradović, who has won eight EuroLeague titles in his career, so there was less urgency. Begarin’s league in France, meanwhile, is more of a developmental program.
Yeah, I agree with this. Though a player his age should pretty much show some development regardless of where he's playing. It's not a good sign to show little to no growth in your age 19 season.I find it interesting that people feel that he hasn’t developed much in the last year and therefore he should go back to where he didn’t develop rather then stay here where they could supervise him more closely. I realize that there are a lot of variables to this decision, including maturity and fit. But I would be thinking long and hard about keeping him around.
I felt this way after games 1 and 2. After game 3, I feel better. Agree with wbcd that he looked better on defense. I was pretty psyched with how he played against GS.Yeah, I agree with this. Though a player his age should pretty much show some development regardless of where he's playing. It's not a good sign to show little to no growth in your age 19 season.
I think he has as well; the problem is he was dreadful last year and this year I would say the improvement, while seemingly real, doesn't catapult him to a legit NBA prospect. The positives are he's still only 19 and he's a good athlete. The negatives are that he doesn't seem to have any defined NBA skills. He's not a very good shooter, not a very good three point shooter, not great with the ball in his hands, not a very good playmaker. He's okay at some of these things, but it's hard to find anything where he's above average or even average. The people who are calling for him to make the team are out of their minds.I haven't watched the entirety of the last game, but I think Begarin has made strides from last year.
I agree with much of this although he “should” be a good 3-pt shooter with solid mechanics, release and little wasted motion. This is one area he should definitely begin to see results. Any marginal improvements people saw since last year are just that and not what I was hoping for this summer. The most discouraging part to me was how inactive he is without the ball and defensively almost in a Romeo-like trance of disinterest much of the time.I think he has as well; the problem is he was dreadful last year and this year I would say the improvement, while seemingly real, doesn't catapult him to a legit NBA prospect. The positives are he's still only 19 and he's a good athlete. The negatives are that he doesn't seem to have any defined NBA skills. He's not a very good shooter, not a very good three point shooter, not great with the ball in his hands, not a very good playmaker. He's okay at some of these things, but it's hard to find anything where he's above average or even average. The people who are calling for him to make the team are out of their minds.
He struggled early in Vegas, especially in the opener, but there was little "discouraging" about Begarin's play in the C's final two games, IMO. That doesn't mean he's ready to play on the varsity, but he absolutely improved from last summer.I agree with much of this although he “should” be a good 3-pt shooter with solid mechanics, release and little wasted motion. This is one area he should definitely begin to see results. Any marginal improvements people saw since last year are just that and not what I was hoping for this summer. The most discouraging part to me was how inactive he is without the ball and defensively almost in a Romeo-like trance of disinterest much of the time.
Yeah he was “better”, which is a low bar for a higher upside prospect, but not the leap I was hoping for from an athletic wing going from 18 to 19 years old.He struggled early in Vegas, especially in the opener, but there was little "discouraging" about Begarin's play in the C's final two games, IMO. That doesn't mean he's ready to play on the varsity, but he absolutely improved from last summer.
With the caveat—a big one—that it's only summer league, Begarin finished with 25 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 steals (and 3 turnovers) in the C's finale. He was 9 for 17 from the floor, 3 for 6 from beyond the arc, and 4 for 4 from the line. He scored 18 points (on 9-for-18 shooting) in the C's penultimate game.Yeah he was “better”, which is a low bar for a higher upside prospect, but not the leap I was hoping for from an athletic wing going from 18 to 19 years old.
Much of this was due to lack of playing time on that loaded SL roster last year. He was an offensive afterthought when he was on the court but showed well when he did have opportunities. I disagree that all he did was show some athleticism last year.With the caveat—a big one—that it's only summer league, Begarin finished with 25 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists and 3 steals (and 3 turnovers) in the C's finale. He was 9 for 17 from the floor, 3 for 6 from beyond the arc, and 4 for 4 from the line. He scored 18 points (on 9-for-18 shooting) in the C's penultimate game.
Last summer, he occasionally flashed his athleticism, but that's about it. He scored 31 points, total, in five games in Vegas last year.
He showed some flashes of offense, defense, etc., but clearly he had a long way to go before being deemed an NBA player. He still does, but you can see it taking shape a little more.Much of this was due to lack of playing time on that loaded SL roster last year. He was an offensive afterthought when he was on the court but showed well when he did have opportunities. I disagree that all he did was show some athleticism last year.
The European leagues are professional leagues with professional coaching staffs. Maybe not quite as fully staffed as NBA teams, but Begarin will still receive more and better coaching than from a hypothetical NCAA team, and probably equivalent to what he would get playing in Maine.He showed some flashes of offense, defense, etc., but clearly he had a long way to go before being deemed an NBA player. He still does, but you can see it taking shape a little more..
Is France the best place for him to develop? I have no idea. Sounds like Yam, who's not as intriguing a prospect, is getting superb coaching in Europe.
How much of a priority is it for Euro teams to develop players? On the one hand, why would they care what a 19 year old becomes in the NBA - like colleges, they want to win now so the payoff for giving a young guy PT/coaching isn't super high. On the other, I'm sure becoming a pipeline for NBA talent and showing that the team can improve your draft status might act as a draw for special talents who need a pit stop on the way to the NBA.The European leagues are professional leagues with professional coaching staffs. Maybe not quite as fully staffed as NBA teams, but Begarin will still receive more and better coaching than from a hypothetical NCAA team, and probably equivalent to what he would get playing in Maine.
That's a good general question (that I don't have the answer too), but I don't think it is relevant in this case. Begarin was 3rd on his team in both minutes and shots per game this past year, he's certainly not riding the bench in Paris.How much of a priority is it for Euro teams to develop players? On the one hand, why would they care what a 19 year old becomes in the NBA - like colleges, they want to win now so the payoff for giving a young guy PT/coaching isn't super high. On the other, I'm sure becoming a pipeline for NBA talent and showing that the team can improve your draft status might act as a draw for special talents who need a pit stop on the way to the NBA.
Genuinely curious as I don't know anything about Euro league and what incentives a team has to play Begarin over a 30 year old who's better in the present.
Yeah he's not riding the bench anywhere but the NBA. There aren’t G League teams or international teams with 5 players who deserve more time than Begarin. He's close enough to an NBA player that he's gonna play.That's a good general question (that I don't have the answer too), but I don't think it is relevant in this case. Begarin was 3rd on his team in both minutes and shots per game this past year, he's certainly not riding the bench in Paris.
Yeah, PT is a bad example. But let's say the Celtics want him to work more on ball handling and decision making. In Maine, they can tell the coaches, "Hey, Begarin is our number one priority, so get him as many reps with the ball as possible" whereas the Paris folks might just choose to let him be a wrecking ball because he's so athletic, which is fine, but not necessarily the best way to get him to improve the things he's bad at.That's a good general question (that I don't have the answer too), but I don't think it is relevant in this case. Begarin was 3rd on his team in both minutes and shots per game this past year, he's certainly not riding the bench in Paris.
That all makes sense. I'm guessing the C's goal is to add Begarin to the 2023-24 roster.My feel on the pros/cons are:
In Maine you get to control all the coaching he gets, and he plays against some real bouncy 2/3 guys which is good.
On the other hand, the skill level is bad, and the quality of games is garbage.
In Europe... you don't have as much control over his coaching, probably sees less super-bouncy wings which is a con.
On the pro-side... he'll face a lot of veteran pros with real skill, the teams care a lot about winning so bad habits don't set in, and there are benefits/consequences for good/bad play.
I'd send him back to Europe personally. You can send guys and zoom to help him out with training, but he isn't a guy I worry about needing to see freak athletes, I need to see him deal with tricky guys, learn to pass, hit shots off good passes, etc.
I’m not sure I understand your alternative to working on ball handling. Paris has an incentive to help him improve skills that he can translate into superior play this year. Paris might not care about coaching toward longer term development, but if improving his handle will help him be better this year, why wouldn’t they work on it?Yeah, PT is a bad example. But let's say the Celtics want him to work more on ball handling and decision making. In Maine, they can tell the coaches, "Hey, Begarin is our number one priority, so get him as many reps with the ball as possible" whereas the Paris folks might just choose to let him be a wrecking ball because he's so athletic, which is fine, but not necessarily the best way to get him to improve the things he's bad at.
In Begarin’s case this is true. He’s in a decent league but unless the NBA team has some type of arrangement where they provide the team with an Asst coach or cash money these teams only care about their short term results. We see players signed one month and released the next all the time. If Begarin was playing in a top league in say Turkey or Spain he’d likely be buried like many young players are on those squads.That's a good general question (that I don't have the answer too), but I don't think it is relevant in this case. Begarin was 3rd on his team in both minutes and shots per game this past year, he's certainly not riding the bench in Paris.
I assume given Begarin’s clear focus on making it to the NBA that he picked his team in consultation with Celtics management. There are obviously situations where playing abroad is a development problem, it’s just hard to see that being the case here (or with Madar, but that is much less significant since Madar’s path to the NBA is a lot more attenuated than is Begarin’s).In Begarin’s case this is true. He’s in a decent league but unless the NBA team has some type of arrangement where they provide the team with an Asst coach or cash money these teams only care about their short term results. We see players signed one month and released the next all the time. If Begarin was playing in a top league in say Turkey or Spain he’d likely be buried like many young players are on those squads.
Why wouldn't Begarin do everything he can to pursue an NBA career? He's in a win-win situation. Europe will always be a well-paying Plan B for him if he doesn't stick in the NBA.I think we need to take a step back and realize that he was a second round pick. He was a worthy "gamble" because of his age, size, athleticism, and potential, but we aren't talking about an international sensation. The Celtics are invested in him, but they aren't going to be eating brioche if he doesn't pan out. Likewise, Begarin himself needs to look out for his own career and staying close to home makes sense as there is a very reasonable chance he never has the skills to make it to the NBA.
Heh, maybe. Last year when he was drafted, some were saying he'd be a lottery pick if he were drafted a year later. I doubt he has more trade value than a late 1st rounder. Teams want their own guys and there are other athletes available in the 2nd round.Begarin > then a late first-round pick
FWIW, I didn't interpet bh's post as Begarin's asset value in a trade scenario. More like, by the fact that we got him as a second round stash guy, it's better for us that we can keep stashing him as he develops without a rookie contract clock running. If he were the 27th pick out of Iowa, he'd be entering year 2 of his rookie deal, getting paid, playing mostly in Maine. Now, someone else is paying him, his clock hasn't started, and we get his age 20 year as a more useful player.Heh, maybe. Last year when he was drafted, some were saying he'd be a lottery pick if he were drafted a year later. I doubt he has more trade value than a late 1st rounder. Teams want their own guys and there are other athletes available in the 2nd round.
I kept saying that while that was technically true, part of that was that 2022 was just a crappy draft in terms of prime talent.Heh, maybe. Last year when he was drafted, some were saying he'd be a lottery pick if he were drafted a year later. I doubt he has more trade value than a late 1st rounder. Teams want their own guys and there are other athletes available in the 2nd round.
Yea, that's where I'm at after watching '22 Vegas. Clock not started/while developing in Europe adds to his valueYeah read that too quickly, sorry. He did say that.
I'd rather have Begarin's rights than imaginary 2023 pick #27. I think that most would. But it's not like a huge difference.