Kareem Hunt - channeling his inner Ray Rice

j44thor

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According to the last paragraph in the sentence, the SIX game suspension for first time offenders cited by this policy has be applied inconsistently. I also see no reason why the policy can not be revisited and amended to go beyond the definition of domestic abuse.
Agree but you can't do that retroactively and I believe the NFLPA would have to be included in those decisions.

Based on the Enunwa precedent Hunt should be suspended 4 games. He should have been charged with simple assault and battery which probably results in a fine (if it goes to court) and no jail time.

He should also be on his last strike with the NFL. His next violent transgression is his last.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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None of that addresses what they'll do with the roster if they got Hunt. They'll cut Burkhead and create a time split between their first round draft pick and the 2017 NFL rushing leader? Again, it makes no sense.
 

j44thor

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None of that addresses what they'll do with the roster if they got Hunt. They'll cut Burkhead and create a time split between their first round draft pick and the 2017 NFL rushing leader? Again, it makes no sense.
This isn't fantasy football, you don't have a limit on RB roster spots, plus I'm pretty sure he doesn't count if he is on the exempt list. Hunt is better than the 53rd player on the NE roster.

This all might be moot though as he is now under investigation for another violent transgression from June.

According to sources with direct knowledge of the situation, Hunt faces more than the baseline six-game suspension for violation of the NFL's personal conduct policy. The league also has been investigating an incident involving Hunt allegedly punching a man in the face at an Ohio resort in June. The NFL is believed to have found enough from that incident to add to Hunt's discipline.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000994219/article/kareem-hunt-faces-more-than-baseline-sixgame-suspension
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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All true - but the NFL never talked to Hunt, either. That is unfathomable to me.
This is the problem to me. The difference with the Elliott matter is really striking.

The league appears to be playing favorites. Player availability dramatically affects competitive balance. Whatever policies the NFL comes up with for these incidents or others can be debated with respect to societal impact or morality but in the end whatever the league chooses to do, if it going to be in the suspension business, must be uniform and consistent.
 

BigJimEd

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Cordarrelle Paterson has been NE lead back this season.
Counting on Burkhead and Michel for 16G + playoffs is wishful thinking.

Hunt also has a lower cap hit than Michel and Burkhead. He is an elite value from a pure NFL standpoint.
I don't see Hunt playing this season. The NFL will leave him on the exempt list as long as possible.
 

Curt S Loew

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Kareem being interviewed on ESPN. His first comment.
It's been a tough time for me and I'm extremely embarrassed by the video
This is so typical. Tough time for HIM? And how bout being embarrassed by your ACTIONS? I guess if there was no video, everything is cool.

He also stated that he couldn't believe what he did when he saw the video. I guess he couldn't remember.
 

soxhop411

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This isn't fantasy football, you don't have a limit on RB roster spots, plus I'm pretty sure he doesn't count if he is on the exempt list. Hunt is better than the 53rd player on the NE roster.

This all might be moot though as he is now under investigation for another violent transgression from June.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000994219/article/kareem-hunt-faces-more-than-baseline-sixgame-suspension
I bet there is even more incidents than these two... For this to happen twice is a pattern
 

RedOctober3829

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The league put much more time and resources into the possible deflation of footballs(which was caused by weather-related reasons but they were too incompetent to realize) than DV by their players. Think about that.
 

Norm loves Vera

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Just watched an interview of Hunt on ESPN I am sure the video will be online today. The incident wasn't in a hotel but in an apartment or condo bldg he recently had moved into.

He didn't disclose any detail of what happened leading up to the event and the female interviewer didn't press his side stepping the questions.

Overall the interview didn't answer any questions other then he was sorry it happened.
Edit..it was on ESPN not NFL. Sorry, I'm in a bar pregaming.​
 
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Couperin47

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Big surprise, he's utterly inarticulate and expresses himself in total denial: he must have repeated at least 5 times 'that isn't me'. Clearly whatever management he has is incompetent if they couldn't sit him down with someone and coach him on using a few simple phrases that don't have him coming off so badly...it's rather amazing that players like this, who are such valuable 'properties' are managed utterly incompetently by those surrounding them.
 

reggiecleveland

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The league put much more time and resources into the possible deflation of footballs(which was caused by weather-related reasons but they were too incompetent to realize) than DV by their players. Think about that.
Well yeah. Deflategate was popular will the fans, except one team, and the fans of that team, were if anything more motivated to watch. Dfg served a purpose of distracting from DV and concussions.
 

j44thor

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Well yeah. Deflategate was popular will the fans, except one team, and the fans of that team, were if anything more motivated to watch. Dfg served a purpose of distracting from DV and concussions.
Yep DFG kept the NFL in the headlines in the off-season for multiple off-seasons.
 

joe dokes

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If the NFL had any sentient crisis management type PR people, they'd be proactive and announce soon after the incident, not 6 months later, that neither the Cleveland police more the location will release to the league investigators the video they say they have.
 

OnWisc

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This isn't fantasy football, you don't have a limit on RB roster spots, plus I'm pretty sure he doesn't count if he is on the exempt list. Hunt is better than the 53rd player on the NE roster.

This all might be moot though as he is now under investigation for another violent transgression from June.



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000994219/article/kareem-hunt-faces-more-than-baseline-sixgame-suspension
Ha. So now we’ve seen steps 1 & 2 of the contingency plan developed last winter. 1 was that the Chiefs immediately release Hunt. 2 was for the league to leak all the other dirty laundry on him and get it all out at once. Since the NFL has probably known all the details of this second incident for some time, I imagine they’ll “wrap up” the investigation shortly and make an announcement.

I have little doubt that if it was instead video of this second incident that was leaked last week, the NFL would today be announcing that they were aware of and investigating an incident in February where Hunt allegedly assaulted a woman.
 
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dcmissle

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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25431829/kareem-hunt-former-kansas-city-chiefs-running-back-says-was-wrong-february-incident

ESPN really into rehabilitation.

The leak of the alleged June punch in the face is conveniently timed. Rappoport reporting what was identified in this thread as making sense for Hunt — he runs in to the League office, confesses to everything there is to confess to, starts the clock running on his medicine.

Raps probably right that the punch in the face gets the discipline beyond 6 games, so this guy very likely done for the year. And because of the added baggage, a waiver claim by 4:00 Monday unlikely.

Odds on him returning to the Chiefs for 2019?
 

PC Drunken Friar

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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25431829/kareem-hunt-former-kansas-city-chiefs-running-back-says-was-wrong-february-incident

ESPN really into rehabilitation.

The leak of the alleged June punch in the face is conveniently timed. Rappoport reporting what was identified in this thread as making sense for Hunt — he runs in to the League office, confesses to everything there is to confess to, starts the clock running on his medicine.

Raps probably right that the punch in the face gets the discipline beyond 6 games, so this guy very likely done for the year. And because of the added baggage, a waiver claim by 4:00 Monday unlikely.

Odds on him returning to the Chiefs for 2019?
The Chiefs told him that he would never again be a member of the Chiefs. If they are to believed is another question.
 

koufax32

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I read a quote where the KCFO said his days in a KC uniform are over. Will try to find that.
 

j44thor

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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25431829/kareem-hunt-former-kansas-city-chiefs-running-back-says-was-wrong-february-incident

ESPN really into rehabilitation.

The leak of the alleged June punch in the face is conveniently timed. Rappoport reporting what was identified in this thread as making sense for Hunt — he runs in to the League office, confesses to everything there is to confess to, starts the clock running on his medicine.

Raps probably right that the punch in the face gets the discipline beyond 6 games, so this guy very likely done for the year. And because of the added baggage, a waiver claim by 4:00 Monday unlikely.

Odds on him returning to the Chiefs for 2019?
Chiefs were quoted as saying he won't be in the KC uniform again but they will do what they can to ensure he gets another shot.
Doubt very much he is back in KC.

My $$ is on Hunt to NYJ as a waiver claim.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It’s about 1700 to 750, based on roster sizes. Expand it to include practice squads and 40-mans, and the ratio does not change meaningfully in baseball’s favor.

This is another example of the burden of being young, minority, male and successful. Domestic violence is a significant problem, but it’s a societal problem. I’d bet the incidence rate in the general population dwarfs that in the NFL community.

There is no room for stereotypes based on hip hop music, dreadlocks and the violence of the sport. We have a whole thread about this thinking — I see a brown person, call 911. It is unjust.

As unjust as a lifetime ban for this offense, which I’ve just seen the video of, based on all the circumstances of this case.

Check out this link . Per data compiled by Vocativ, from 2010-2014 the NBA and NFL led all major sports in *arrest rates*. Now arrest rates are problematic for obvious reasons in that they don't account for unreported incidents as well as incidents that are reported but don't result in an arrest. Its fairly likely that were we able to access the other two data points from any given timeframe, the numbers would be far larger across the board regardless of the population studied (i.e. general, NFL or other major sports league).

You should also take a gander at this piece from 538. Setting aside the obvious problems of the overall data as well as the bias against reporting these incidents overall, this is a key paragraph about the NFL's 55.4% domestic violence arrest rate.

Moreover, relative to the income level (top 1 percent) and poverty rate (0 percent) of NFL players, the domestic violence arrest rate is downright extraordinary. According to a 2002 Bureau of Justice Statistics Report covering 1993 to 1998, the domestic victimization rate for women in households with income greater than $75,000 (3.3 per 100,000) was about 39 percent of the overall rate (8.4 per 100,000), and less than 20 percent of the rate for women ages 20 to 34. That report doesn’t include cross-tabs, and it’s a little out of date (more current data is harder to find because more recent BJS reports on the issue do not include income breakdowns), but that sub-20 percent relative victimization among high-income households is consistent with the NFL’s 13 percent relative arrest rate overall (arrest disparities between income levels are probably even greater than victimization rates).
Baseball may have more problems of late and recency bias tends to skew our perception of which sport has the biggest problem. But the data suggests the NFL, in particular, has an large ongoing issue though it may or may not be worse than the NBA.

Also, to be clear, I don't think its "fair" or "just" that a 22 year old who appears to have anger management issues should have his promising career ended over this incident. However, given the NFL's track record with assault/domestic violence, if the pendulum is swinging that way, its better than the league not really addressing it at all. Ideally, per this excellent Deadspin piece by Diana Moskovitz, sports leagues would have a comprehensive program that does't just cover the team or league's ass but results in meaningful counseling that helps/protects the victims while getting players the help they need. Unfortunately, that doesn't appear to be happening anytime soon so absent that, real consequences for players involved in these incidents are the next best option in terms of deterrence imho. Again, its not perfect but if the cost of these incidents is a lot of money and a career, it stands to reason that it may stop at least one incident from happening (of course it will stop many more from being reported but that is likely happening anyway).

Finally, I don't know where stereotypes come in to anything posted in this thread - if I was giving off the message that there are stereotypes at play than I apologize. I am basing my view on data but I am open to the idea that my either/both the data and my interpretation are deeply flawed.
 

dcmissle

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The data are too old and admittedly too squishy too hang much on. The key paragraph is anchored to a 2002 study. That study is based on statistics 20 to 25 years old.

These pieces do establish what I expected. Professional athletes arrest rates are substantially below those in the general population, particularly young men in the population.

If you’re going to slice this by income level, then recognize you are comparing these people to lawyers, investment bankers, engineers, doctors and entrepreneurs.

Who establishes reasonable “expectations”?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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The data are too old and admittedly too squishy too hang much on. The key paragraph is anchored to a 2002 study. That study is based on statistics 20 to 25 years old.

These pieces do establish what I expected. Professional athletes arrest rates are substantially below those in the general population, particularly young men in the population.

If you’re going to slice this by income level, then recognize you are comparing these people to lawyers, investment bankers, engineers, doctors and entrepreneurs.

Who establishes reasonable “expectations”?
The other problem with the data is that this strata of society (athletes, investment bankers, lawyers and engineers) tends to have not only better access to quality legal representation but all the tailwinds of employers/institutions who have a vested interest in making these stories go away. So I grant you that.

I would like more clarity on the stereotype comment. I am not sure where you were going with that.
 

djbayko

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Next time Goodell holds a press conference (Super Bowl?), someone should ask him “Would you like to go on the record now about any other assault videos the NFL has been unable to obtain?” Of course he won’t and can’t answer, but I love watching him squirm.
 
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Marciano490

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I mean it’s kinda absurd that Hill is their leading rusher by yards so far in this game.
 

dcmissle

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The other problem with the data is that this strata of society (athletes, investment bankers, lawyers and engineers) tends to have not only better access to quality legal representation but all the tailwinds of employers/institutions who have a vested interest in making these stories go away. So I grant you that.

I would like more clarity on the stereotype comment. I am not sure where you were going with that.
I think if you presented even the admittedly aged and squishy data to the broad public, people would be floored. By the notion that NFL reported crime levels are well below those of the general population. Because I think it’s out there that this League is dominated by young, misogynistic, rap fueled gangstas.

In this connection, it is important to remember that the League’s forays into personal conduct policing were occasioned by public relations nightmares. A Rae Carruth here, a Ray Lewis there, a slew of auto accidents involving drugs and alcohol, a Giants wideout shooting himself in the leg in a club at 2 am — we were off to the races.

But it gets worse because what at heart is a PR response then became politicized, with the League playing favorites. There is little substance and no consistency. Because the concerns are, (1) how do we avoid frightening and alienating what remains a largely white, pretty conservative fan base? (2) how do we do this while taking care of the teams and players we like and fucking the ones we don’t?

I am not saying there isn’t a problem. I am saying the solutions should be based on an accurate representation of the magnitude and scope of the problem and collectively bargained. There should be common sense, proportionality and fairness, based on a genuine desire to help players in the League, their families and friends, and members of the public whose lives they touch.
 

fairlee76

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Kareem being interviewed on ESPN. His first comment.


This is so typical. Tough time for HIM? And how bout being embarrassed by your ACTIONS? I guess if there was no video, everything is cool.

He also stated that he couldn't believe what he did when he saw the video. I guess he couldn't remember.
Fuck this guy. And fuck whatever team picks him up if he is allowed to play again this season.

We're a nation of victims. Absolutely pathetic.
 

Jettisoned

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The league put much more time and resources into the possible deflation of footballs(which was caused by weather-related reasons but they were too incompetent to realize) than DV by their players. Think about that.
Kareem Hunt allegedly assaulted people on at least three separate occasions over a 6 month period, yet has not even been arrested. The NFL doesn't have the moral obligation, legal mandate or resources to investigate domestic violence or any other crime; that's literally the purpose of the criminal justice system.

What should be really troubling to everyone (and I can't believe this isn't being discussed more) is that the police in multiple states appear to have had very little interest in enforcing the law in these situations.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Kareem Hunt allegedly assaulted people on at least three separate occasions over a 6 month period, yet has not even been arrested. The NFL doesn't have the moral obligation, legal mandate or resources to investigate domestic violence or any other crime; that's literally the purpose of the criminal justice system.

What should be really troubling to everyone (and I can't believe this isn't being discussed more) is that the police in multiple states appear to have had very little interest in enforcing the law in these situations.
They're not all equal.

I've been involved with plenty of bar fights where cops ends up involved. Often times, there are no arrests. That's not all that surprising.
 

tims4wins

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More shit keeps coming out. The more that comes out the more you have to think both the Chiefs and the NFL knew

 

mauf

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Kareem Hunt allegedly assaulted people on at least three separate occasions over a 6 month period, yet has not even been arrested. The NFL doesn't have the moral obligation, legal mandate or resources to investigate domestic violence or any other crime; that's literally the purpose of the criminal justice system.

What should be really troubling to everyone (and I can't believe this isn't being discussed more) is that the police in multiple states appear to have had very little interest in enforcing the law in these situations.
Hunt and the victim in Cleveland weren’t in an intimate relationship, so police and prosecutors wouldn’t treat it as domestic violence. And from what I’ve read, it appears that under Ohio law the woman would have had to be seriously injured to bring felony charges. So while it looks like hell on video, from law enforcement’s perspective it’s just a misdemeanor assault. It would be an open-and-shut case with that video, but if the woman isn’t inclined to press charges, I can see why police and prosecutors would decide that the case wasn’t a priority.

I don’t know enough about the other incidents to offer an opinion on whether police handled them appropriately.
 

joe dokes

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Kareem Hunt allegedly assaulted people on at least three separate occasions over a 6 month period, yet has not even been arrested. The NFL doesn't have the moral obligation, legal mandate or resources to investigate domestic violence or any other crime; that's literally the purpose of the criminal justice system.

What should be really troubling to everyone (and I can't believe this isn't being discussed more) is that the police in multiple states appear to have had very little interest in enforcing the law in these situations.

Its not about "crime," it's about conduct. If an NFL player goes on facebook and posts a manifesto saying that raped women deserved it, it's all the Jews' fault, and foreigners are ruining the country, there are no crimes there. But there very well could be some sort of violation of NFL conduct rules. I'm not certain about that hypothetical, but the point is that there's a wide range of conduct that the NFL (and other pro sports leagues) wants its players not engaging in that is probably in the CBA somewhere. Some of it is criminal; some not. Whether it has the "moral obligation," "legal mandate" or resources is besides the point. It has an interest. Or it should.
 

Jnai

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No serious contributions here except to say that I saw a family of kids on Sunday at Epcot with two Hunt jerseys among them. What are you supposed to tell your six year old? That his only jersey is bad?

The NFL should have a blanket buyback policy for this kind of thing. I don't know how it would work, but what a shitty situation for fans.