Kevin Durant Sweepstakes

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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We’re in the minority here but I’m with you. Be bold. Get the all time great and pair him with a younger star in Tatum and a good supporting cast. I want to see that duo play together.
I don't get the sense that this forum is against a trade depending on the package.

More to the point, regardless of all the speculation that KD is starting to decline, he is the best player in any deal Boston could put together. Teams getting the best player typically do ok near term in the NBA.

The Celtics are in an arms race now and if they can get Durant for Brown+White+draft capital, they have to strongly consider it. There are all sorts of scenarios where it doesn't work out but probably fewer than running it back with this roster.

Edit: This whole topic isn't an easy one to contemplate - like others here I love rooting for Jaylen Brown and think he still has a bit of upside. But this is Kevin Durant. As you note, the prospect of him playing with Tatum is really enticing.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don't get the sense that this forum is against a trade depending on the package.

More to the point, regardless of all the speculation that KD is starting to decline, he is the best player in any deal Boston could put together. Teams getting the best player typically do ok near term in the NBA.

The Celtics are in an arms race now and if they can get Durant for Brown+White+draft capital, they have to strongly consider it. There are all sorts of scenarios where it doesn't work out but probably fewer than running it back with this roster.

Edit: This whole topic isn't an easy one to contemplate - like others here I love rooting for Jaylen Brown and think he still has a bit of upside. But this is Kevin Durant. As you note, the prospect of him playing with Tatum is really enticing.
Feels like there’s a growing “I don’t want KD under any circumstances“ sentiment due to the drama angle. Quite a few “was on the fence but definite no now” since that second Shams article this week.
 

moondog80

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There is definitely a "you knew I was a snake when you picked me up" potential in dealing with Durant, but I don't know how you turn the deal down if it's just Brown/White/pick.
 

amlothi

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I'm not sure Durant + drama > JB + White - drama

I will be disappointed if they make this trade, but hope for the best.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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There is definitely a "you knew I was a snake when you picked me up" potential in dealing with Durant, but I don't know how you turn the deal down if it's just Brown/White/pick.
I do.

On the court, Durant is a better player that Jaylen right now, but not for long. Off the court Durant is a coach-killer whose performance is based on his mood. In terms of commitment to team goals, Jalen has chunks of Durant in his stool.

Jalen + White means another year of improvement with players who just made the finals and still have upside. Durant is Bob McAdoo.
 

DJnVa

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For a team that thought they were entering a long period of contention with Kyrie and Hayward, the idea that Brown gives us a "longer window" scares me. There are no long term windows in the NBA.

The deal has to make sense (Brown, White, picks is where I am) but man, you gotta take a long hard look at it.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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A lot of things had to go right to get to the Finals. They were definitely the better team in all three series, but easily could have blown the last two.

If the Butler three goes down would people who don’t want the trade feel differently?
 

NomarsFool

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I concur with all of this. And as far as windows opening and closing, long-term or short-term, I think the late aught Celtics provide a good look at why you can't count on anything in this league. The Celtics looked primed to win multiple titles, but a Perkins knee injury and a Garnett long-term injury cost them. There are no guarantees, so I think you always have to go with the best shot to win it all. And the best shot to win it all is with Durant, not Brown.
However, I also get nervous with going "all in" in a short window because stuff happens. Not just with KD, who missed a lot of time recently, but the C's could have a major injury to Tatum in the next 2 years and you've mortgaged the future for nothing.

Now, if Brown is gone in 2 years - it's the same calculus. The challenge is that, in my opinion, extending Brown and having multiple years of Tatum and Brown (and some draft capital to make DWhite-like trades when the need arises) I think could be a better bet at winning banner 18 over the next 4-6 years than KD + Tatum and no draft capital over the next 2. I realize KD is still here 2 years after - but I guess that's another wild card is what kind of player he is in two years?

So, I guess a lot comes down to whether the Celtics think they can resign Brown and have a JT/JB "dynasty" and multiple bites at the apple.
 

dhellers

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I concur with all of this. And as far as windows opening and closing, long-term or short-term, I think the late aught Celtics provide a good look at why you can't count on anything in this league. The Celtics looked primed to win multiple titles, but a Perkins knee injury and a Garnett long-term injury cost them. There are no guarantees, so I think you always have to go with the best shot to win it all. And the best shot to win it all is with Durant, not Brown.
This "best chance to win" is predicated on Durant playing at nearly 100% of his potential versus JB/etc playing at nearly 100% of theirs.

Not impossible ... but to base an expected value (or expected ranking) calculation on such an assumption is wishful thinking.

Why? You need to consider the integrated (over probable states of nature) of winning a championship. And given KD's downward trend and his injury history, and JB's upward trend, the probablities on "having KD yields a worse out come then having JB" states of nature are not going to be zero.

Add in KD's temperamental nature, his coach killing -- increases the probablity of bad outcomes from a KD trade.
Add in building on the team coordination demonstrated last year (along with Brogdon and Galinari to address glaring gaps), the upward trajectory of the Celtic core (including JB) -- increases the probablity of good outcomes from keeping JB.

And if a tiebreaker is needed, the pleasures of watching a mostly home grown team are real!
 

PRabbit

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The 'best chance to win' is predicated on a 33-34 year old MVP-Caliber wing who has averaged 45 games per regular season over the past 2 years to hold up over the 100+ game grind between the regular season and playoffs. I don't think anyone can understate how much of a war of attrition this game is at the highest level, and for that reason alone I'd take JB over KD. The best ability is availability.

My favorite non-Celtic team has to be the '04 Pistons. They rolled 10 deep, non-stop smart pressure on D for 48 minutes, and had 3 guys who could carry offensively. I see the same potential with this squad as is, with a higher ceiling offensively.
 

benhogan

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It would be real easy for KD to update the places he wants to play with Phoenix and Miami seemingly out of this.

Yet he hasn't. Are we sure he even wants to play in Boston?
 

lovegtm

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It would be real easy for KD to update the places he wants to play with Phoenix and Miami seemingly out of this.

Yet he hasn't. Are we sure he even wants to play in Boston?
The leaks seem pretty clearly crafted around telegraphing that he wants to be in Boston, given the alternatives.

There's a very high probability he wants to play in Boston, and the Celtics almost certainly know for sure one way or the other.
 

bankshot1

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I'm still in the No on KD for several reasons, (mostly I think they can win without him and as currently constructed, and why the fuck would the Celts want to bail out a rival unless they can get a KD-discount).
But one big unspoken reason is that I wonder if Tatum's ability to grow into a respected alpha-leader might get stalled if a dominant-diva-Durant becomes the featured spotlight guy. I think this is the time for alpha Jason to emerge not for him to fall to a beta to KD.
 

Mooch

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I'm still in the No on KD for several reasons, (mostly I think they can win without him and as currently constructed, and why the fuck would the Celts want to bail out a rival unless they can get a KD-discount).
But one big unspoken reason is that I wonder if Tatum's ability to grow into a respected alpha-leader might get stalled if a dominant-diva-Durant becomes the featured spotlight guy. I think this is the time for alpha Jason to emerge not for him to fall to a beta to KD.
I'm sorry but this post has me chuckling to myself.

If Tatum ends up with the same type of career as say, Scottie Pippen, Dwyane Wade, Sam Jones, James Worthy or Kevin McHale, we should be fucking thrilled. All of those guys were "betas" to a better "alpha" teammate and all are consensus top 50 all time players with enough Championship rings that it would take several hands to wear them all.

Honestly, who cares about alpha vs. beta. WIN. That's all that matters.
 

benhogan

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The leaks seem pretty clearly crafted around telegraphing that he wants to be in Boston, given the alternatives.

There's a very high probability he wants to play in Boston, and the Celtics almost certainly know for sure one way or the other.
KD could just Twitter out an additional list of teams. No skin off his nose, while tweaking the Nets again.
1. It would weaken the Nets' position
2. It would embolden teams like Toronto, NOLA, and Boston.
3. Increases KD's popularity with future city fanbases/media
If this trade request is real and not some KD/Kyrie dramafest, it would help be a bridge for all parties.

KD has the IME connection + played the Olympics with JT. BUT every NBA player wants to be involved with these two high-character guys (Shams isn't breaking news there)

The further this drama drags on, the more I want to see if these new & improved Celtics steamroll the NBA as they did after January (when they were setting all sorts of point differential records).
 

PedroKsBambino

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KD could just Twitter out an additional list of teams. No skin off his nose, while tweaking the Nets again.
1. It would weaken the Nets' position
2. It would embolden teams like Toronto, NOLA, and Boston.
3. Increases KD's popularity with future city fanbases/media
If this trade request is real and not some KD/Kyrie dramafest, it would help be a bridge for all parties.

KD has the IME connection + played the Olympics with JT. BUT every NBA player wants to be involved with these two high-character guys (Shams isn't breaking news there)

The further this drama drags on, the more I want to see if these new & improved Celtics steamroll the NBA as they did after January (when they were setting all sorts of point differential records).
Maybe, but there's some risk for KD there: the more blatant it is that Celtics are talking to Nets about a trade the more motivated the Celtics will be to deny it and walk away to preserve their relationship with Jaylen. So I'm not sure it is fully in KD's interest to push harder for the Celtics, though I think he is pushing hard to make something happen....
 

bankshot1

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I'm sorry but this post has me chuckling to myself.

If Tatum ends up with the same type of career as say, Scottie Pippen, Dwyane Wade, Sam Jones, James Worthy or Kevin McHale, we should be fucking thrilled. All of those guys were "betas" to a better "alpha" teammate and all are consensus top 50 all time players with enough Championship rings that it would take several hands to wear them all.

Honestly, who cares about alpha vs. beta. WIN. That's all that matters.
I'm glad you got a good laugh. I don't care about alpha or beta, just that Tatum develops into player he can become. My concern is that Durant could retard that process.

And IMO Tatum likey has a higher ceiling than the 2nd bananas you mentioned.
 

Jimbodandy

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I'm glad you got a good laugh. I don't care about alpha or beta, just that Tatum develops into player he can become. My concern is that Durant could retard that process.

And IMO Tatum likey has a higher ceiling than the 2nd bananas you mentioned.
Tatum is a top-10 alpha player now. I get what you're saying in that bringing in one of the very few players on earth who are in his league or better might slow/halt the process of unlocking the final pieces in the Tatum profile, but I don't that is entering Brad's mind. If Durant only cost Al Horford, filler, and a bunch of picks, he'd already be here.
 

bankshot1

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Tatum is a top-10 alpha player now. I get what you're saying in that bringing in one of the very few players on earth who are in his league or better might slow/halt the process of unlocking the final pieces in the Tatum profile, but I don't that is entering Brad's mind. If Durant only cost Al Horford, filler, and a bunch of picks, he'd already be here.
If Brad can get Durant at a significant discount I'd be more amenable, but I see little reason for breaking up a legit contender (packaging Brown, White or Smart and picks) for an aging Durant. I see more risk than reward.

If Jaylen gives an indication he wants to play in Boston and compete for rings for the next 5+ years, I'm all in with JT/JB/TL and Smart as my core four and filling in as required. IMO the ceiling on this team as currently constructed is high enough to hang banner(s)
 

NomarsFool

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If KD really wants out, I would think the most likely way that happens is if he's able to weaken the Nets position so that another team (BOS in our case) doesn't have to overpay to get him. If the Nets have the choice of shipping KD to Boston for JB straight up or having KD sit out, the deal happens - right? If the only deal they'll accept is JB + DWhite and 3 FRPs - I think the deal doesn't happen and KD is stuck in Brooklyn.
 

Smokey Joe

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Why would they hate him?

I guarantee you that a guy like Tatum thinks pretty highly of Kevin Durant.
So. Say KD gets traded to the Celtics for Brown, White, picks, whatever.

He arrives and says how psyched he is to be with such a storied franchise. All he wants to do is fit in and contribute to the next great Celtics dynasty.
Then he notices that it's really hard to keep up with the Ime's defensive schemes and he says "I can't do that, change the scheme."
Then he notices that he is not getting as many touches as he would like and is the only guy there who has actually won a ring and makes suggestions that would "improve' the offense and get him the ball more often.
Udoka declines to adopt his improvements. KD complains to Brad, except that he is KD and so he complains to Wyc.
Then KD notices that he doesn't have any of his buddies on the team so there isn't anyone to hang out with after games, so he asks Brad to sign or trade for one of his buddies and give him a starting job. Except he doesn't ask Brad because he is KD. So he asks Wyc.
They decline to trade for one of his buddies so he has a hamstring injury and is out for a week and returns after the team wins three games in a row.
Then he notices the fans are sometimes less then supportive and starts hearing "KD! You suck!" a little too much so he sets up 5 burner accounts on Sons of Sam Horn so he can tell everybody what a good player he is and how the Celts are lucky to have him.
(Sometimes I think he has already done this from the amount of support that this trade idea gets on this board.)

Then it's the end of the season, KD has played in 45 games, the Celtics are the 6th seed because their defense is good, but not as good as last year and they get swept by the Nets is the first round. KD and Smart get into a fight.

KD then says he would like to move on because...
“I came in there wanting to be part of a group, wanting to be part of a family, and definitely felt accepted, But I’ll never be one of those guys. I didn’t get drafted there ... Jayson Tatum, obviously drafted there. Marcus Smart, drafted there. Robert Williams, drafted there. And the rest of the guys kind of rehabilitated their careers there. So me? Shit, how you going to rehabilitate me? What you going to teach me? How can you alter anything in my basketball life? I got an MVP already. I got scoring titles.”
“As time went on, I started to realize I’m just different from the rest of the guys. It’s not a bad thing. Just my circumstances and how I came up in the league. And on top of that, the media always looked at it like KD and the Celtics. So it’s like nobody could [give] a full acceptance of me there.”

“‘The motion offense we run in Boston, it only works to a certain point,’ he says. ‘We can totally rely on only our system for maybe the first two rounds. Then the next two rounds we’re going to have to mix in individual play. We’ve got to throw teams off, because they’re smarter in that round of playoffs. So now I had to dive into my bag, deep, to create stuff on my own, off the dribble, isos, pick-and-rolls, more so than let the offense create my points for me.’ He wanted to go to someplace where he’d be free to hone that sort of improvisational game throughout the regular season.”
"I'd really like to work with Jimmy Butler and Miami's young core"

Then he gets traded to Miami for Max Strus and two second round picks.

So does any of this look familiar?
 

Mystic Merlin

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If KD really wants out, I would think the most likely way that happens is if he's able to weaken the Nets position so that another team (BOS in our case) doesn't have to overpay to get him. If the Nets have the choice of shipping KD to Boston for JB straight up or having KD sit out, the deal happens - right? If the only deal they'll accept is JB + DWhite and 3 FRPs - I think the deal doesn't happen and KD is stuck in Brooklyn.
I don’t think a straight up swap happens. They’ll dare him to sit or, if not, embarrass himself by giving 70 percent. That’s not Durant’s style, despite some of the strange innuendo in a few posts here that he has a penchant for quitting on or giving a shitty effort to teams when he becomes disenchanted.
 

Cellar-Door

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I do.

On the court, Durant is a better player that Jaylen right now, but not for long. Off the court Durant is a coach-killer whose performance is based on his mood. In terms of commitment to team goals, Jalen has chunks of Durant in his stool.

Jalen + White means another year of improvement with players who just made the finals and still have upside. Durant is Bob McAdoo.
There is no evidence for either of these, Durant is a much better player, and for Jaylen to pass him in the next few years would take some combination of KD falling off a cliff and Jaylen taking at least 1 probably 2 leaps... that's not particularly likely.

Durant has never killed a coach until BKN, he was just fine in OKC and GS, and his performance has been elite everywhere he's gone. This year he carried a broken team while injured, he could easily have bowed out when Harden wanted a trade and asked to rest, he didn't, he could have bowed out late in the year when he was banged up and Simmons wasn't playing... he didn't, instead he tried to (and did) drag that team the playoffs in hope some help would show up, because he likes to win and he loves to play basketball. Honestly I'm way more likely to say Durant is the one who has showed an incredible dedication given it would be much easier for him to ask for Kawhi or AD treatment (given he's better than both) and he hasn't.

Durant is a pain in the ass off court, but on court he's a killer and a top 5 player in the league. I can't believe we're arguing that Jaylen who is absolutely baffled by the concept of dribbling left, and can't deal with late help is being compared to KD who it took an all-time great D completely selling out, and his teammates shitting the bed to stop.

I can understand not wanting a trade, but KD is better than Jaylen, he will almost certainly be better than Jaylen through Jaylen's contract, and very likely the 2 years after through the end of his own deal. He's everything that the Celtics lacked in the finals, a guy who absolutely cannot be contained by less than 2 guys, who is always in control, and who you have to respect, and who can absolutely punish even a slight mismatch, in a way Jaylen and Tatum couldn't.
 

benhogan

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I don’t think a straight up swap happens. They’ll dare him to sit or, if not, embarrass himself by giving 70 percent. That’s not Durant’s style, despite some of the strange innuendo in a few posts here that he has a penchant for quitting on or giving a shitty effort to teams when he becomes disenchanted.
how many times has Kev asked for the HC and GM to be fired? daring KD to sit Oct or Nov regular season games should go over well.

Does Simmons still have this outfit available? and would KD be sending a message to Nets brass by going Green?


https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Gz1jyy_BdZQ
 

Jimbodandy

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There is no evidence for either of these, Durant is a much better player, and for Jaylen to pass him in the next few years would take some combination of KD falling off a cliff and Jaylen taking at least 1 probably 2 leaps... that's not particularly likely.

Durant has never killed a coach until BKN, he was just fine in OKC and GS, and his performance has been elite everywhere he's gone. This year he carried a broken team while injured, he could easily have bowed out when Harden wanted a trade and asked to rest, he didn't, he could have bowed out late in the year when he was banged up and Simmons wasn't playing... he didn't, instead he tried to (and did) drag that team the playoffs in hope some help would show up, because he likes to win and he loves to play basketball. Honestly I'm way more likely to say Durant is the one who has showed an incredible dedication given it would be much easier for him to ask for Kawhi or AD treatment (given he's better than both) and he hasn't.

Durant is a pain in the ass off court, but on court he's a killer and a top 5 player in the league. I can't believe we're arguing that Jaylen who is absolutely baffled by the concept of dribbling left, and can't deal with late help is being compared to KD who it took an all-time great D completely selling out, and his teammates shitting the bed to stop.

I can understand not wanting a trade, but KD is better than Jaylen, he will almost certainly be better than Jaylen through Jaylen's contract, and very likely the 2 years after through the end of his own deal. He's everything that the Celtics lacked in the finals, a guy who absolutely cannot be contained by less than 2 guys, who is always in control, and who you have to respect, and who can absolutely punish even a slight mismatch, in a way Jaylen and Tatum couldn't.
I agree with most of this and generally your take on the situation.

I would say that Jaylen's graph is trending up and he's pushing a 4DARKO right now. Durant is down to a 5. Durant hasn't tanked at all. I'm not saying that. 5DARKO is still a great player, a clear top 10 player. But he was like a 7 at his peak. He's not that guy anymore. The list of 7 DARKO guys begins and ends with Giannis right now.

We keep saying that guys level off and don't improve after 25, but Brown's impact graph is on a steep incline still. Maybe he levels off at 4, and Durant remains a 5 DARKO player for a few more years. It seems more likely than not actually, but it's not a given. With the current graph, Brown could be as impactful as Durant in a year. It sounds crazy to say that, but that's one outcome of the data right now.
 

amfox1

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https://www.sny.tv/articles/sources-kevin-durant-celtics-landing-spot-marcus-smart-trade

A few notes on the Nets and Kevin Durant….

Durant sees Boston as a desired landing spot, per people familiar with the matter. Durant also would like to play with Boston’s Marcus Smart if he is traded to the Celtics, per people familiar with the matter.

The Athletic had previously reported that Brooklyn wanted Smart included in a package from the Celtics in any Durant trade.

It is unknown if Boston and Brooklyn have made progress on a deal. SNY reported last week that there had been pessimism about a Durant trade being completed in the near future.

That was before Durant met with Nets governor Joe Tsai and delivered an ultimatum, telling Tsai to trade him or fire general manager Sean Marks and head coach Steve Nash.

Tsai subsequently wrote on Twitter that he backed Nets management and the coaching staff and would operate in the best interest of the franchise.

Durant, presumably, knew that Tsai would back Marks and Nash. So it’s fair to assume that Durant delivered his ultimatum in an effort to put pressure on the Nets to make a deal.

Teams know that Tsai is not going to fire Nash and Marks to keep Durant. So a Durant trade from Brooklyn seems to be inevitable.

It’s just a matter of how long Tsai and the Nets are willing to wait and if/when teams decide to meet their steep asking price.
 

RorschachsMask

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Both Himmelsbach and Ian Begley have had articles come out in the last hour. Himmelsbach said the Nets asked for both Jay’s, but knew it wasn’t realistic so backed off down to Jaylen/Smart/pick haul, which the Celtics also turned down.

Begley said the following

“A few notes on the Nets and Kevin Durant….

Durant sees Boston as a desired landing spot, per people familiar with the matter. Durant also would like to play with Boston’s Marcus Smart if he is traded to the Celtics, per people familiar with the matter.

The Athletic had previously reported that Brooklyn wanted Smart included in a package from the Celtics in any Durant trade.”
I’ll just paste a post of mine from another site. It’s a bit a take, but it’s hard to argue with what KD’s camp has leaked through the media the last two days. The quotes below are from Himmelsbach.

View: https://twitter.com/AdamHimmelsbach/status/1557403541827997701?s=20&t=mlpnbDabF9Epgy2tAAFwqw


A league source said there has not been any real traction on a potential deal that would send Kevin Durant from the Nets to the Celtics. It’s no surprise that the two sides have had some discussions, of course.
The Celtics have been considered a potential landing spot in large part because they are better positioned than most to present an enticing package. But there are limits.
But a league source said Celtics president of basketball operations Brad Stevens and coach Ime Udoka communicate with Brown “all the time” and have kept him in the loop, adding that Brown seems to understand the situation.
Nets don’t want to move KD, as of now they haven’t backed off their demands. That may change, it may not, but I’d lean towards them backing off a bit, like Bulpett said yesterday.

Jaylen is definitely on the table, I mean that article said it without saying it. Celtics will NOT include Smart with Jaylen, which is absolutely the correct move.

Now, the Begley article? KD’s camp has now leaked to Shams and Begley that he wants to play in Boston, and wants Smart here. Then remember this article from a Nets guy yesterday, where he said KD is absolutely willing to sit out camp.

View: https://twitter.com/Krisplashed/status/1557057003733848065?s=20&t=MaiUteVmbrAU1z6EnS-eXg


I think we’re in the starting stages of KD trying to angle his way here. Will it work? Who knows, but he’s clearly making it known that he’d like to be here. Now it seems like he may be willing to sit out to get what/where he wants, and he wants to Celtics to be able to keep Smart in any deal.
 

amfox1

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KD for JT and JB? I mean, c'mon. That's pretty insane.
You never know unless you ask. Clearly, KD is trying to push the Nets to lower their ask and get him the hell out of Brooklyn. I wonder if they need to line up a trade for Kyrie before they re-engage BOS in a more reasonable way. I suspect nothing happens until just before training camp. Deadlines, etc.
 

bakahump

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I am getting greedy. Brown and Picks (2 1s and maybe a swap)? Ok. Brown and White? Ok. Brown, White and Picks? No. Screw you Brooklyn.
 

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tbb345

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There is no evidence for either of these, Durant is a much better player, and for Jaylen to pass him in the next few years would take some combination of KD falling off a cliff and Jaylen taking at least 1 probably 2 leaps... that's not particularly likely.

Durant has never killed a coach until BKN, he was just fine in OKC and GS, and his performance has been elite everywhere he's gone. This year he carried a broken team while injured, he could easily have bowed out when Harden wanted a trade and asked to rest, he didn't, he could have bowed out late in the year when he was banged up and Simmons wasn't playing... he didn't, instead he tried to (and did) drag that team the playoffs in hope some help would show up, because he likes to win and he loves to play basketball. Honestly I'm way more likely to say Durant is the one who has showed an incredible dedication given it would be much easier for him to ask for Kawhi or AD treatment (given he's better than both) and he hasn't.

Durant is a pain in the ass off court, but on court he's a killer and a top 5 player in the league. I can't believe we're arguing that Jaylen who is absolutely baffled by the concept of dribbling left, and can't deal with late help is being compared to KD who it took an all-time great D completely selling out, and his teammates shitting the bed to stop.

I can understand not wanting a trade, but KD is better than Jaylen, he will almost certainly be better than Jaylen through Jaylen's contract, and very likely the 2 years after through the end of his own deal. He's everything that the Celtics lacked in the finals, a guy who absolutely cannot be contained by less than 2 guys, who is always in control, and who you have to respect, and who can absolutely punish even a slight mismatch, in a way Jaylen and Tatum couldn't.
I’ve seen this a few times now and I have to address it….we are all really pretending that Durant was happy or just fine in GS? He was happy for a year and then stories started to come out about how he wasn’t happy anymore. It’s pretty much universally acknowledged that he was a massive headache for the franchise (Kerr, Bob Myers). And just to nip this in the bud, on the court the Durant Warriors we’re pretty much inevitable. They were so good that short of injury/completely giving up they were always going to win. I don’t think the potential Durant/Tatum Celtics are close to the level of the Durant Warriors.

It would have been literally impossible to be a “coach killer” to Kerr by the time Durant wen there but it was pretty clear Durant was antagonistic towards Kerr. He takes potshots at him pretty much whenever he has the opportunity.

The risk for the Celtics is that their culture isn’t nearly as established as the Warriors was. Udoka isn’t as entrenched as Kerr was and KD will have more of a leadership role here than he did in GS. If things go off track at all there’s a possibility of Durant undermining Udoka and turning the team toxic.

If there was a way where you could 100% guarantee everyone stays healthy then I think you end up trading JB/Grant/White:picks for Durant. It’s not an easy decision but you make it because Durant is that good….and I am a big Durant hater.
However, without that guarantee, I just don’t think you can pull the trigger. With the situation the Celtics are in, Durant isnt someone I want on the team if fheres unforeseen adversity
 

LoLsapien

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So. Say KD gets traded to the Celtics for Brown, White, picks, whatever.

He arrives and says how psyched he is to be with such a storied franchise. All he wants to do is fit in and contribute to the next great Celtics dynasty.
Then he notices that it's really hard to keep up with the Ime's defensive schemes and he says "I can't do that, change the scheme."
Then he notices that he is not getting as many touches as he would like and is the only guy there who has actually won a ring and makes suggestions that would "improve' the offense and get him the ball more often.
Udoka declines to adopt his improvements. KD complains to Brad, except that he is KD and so he complains to Wyc.
Then KD notices that he doesn't have any of his buddies on the team so there isn't anyone to hang out with after games, so he asks Brad to sign or trade for one of his buddies and give him a starting job. Except he doesn't ask Brad because he is KD. So he asks Wyc.
They decline to trade for one of his buddies so he has a hamstring injury and is out for a week and returns after the team wins three games in a row.
Then he notices the fans are sometimes less then supportive and starts hearing "KD! You suck!" a little too much so he sets up 5 burner accounts on Sons of Sam Horn so he can tell everybody what a good player he is and how the Celts are lucky to have him.
(Sometimes I think he has already done this from the amount of support that this trade idea gets on this board.)

Then it's the end of the season, KD has played in 45 games, the Celtics are the 6th seed because their defense is good, but not as good as last year and they get swept by the Nets is the first round. KD and Smart get into a fight.

KD then says he would like to move on because...
“I came in there wanting to be part of a group, wanting to be part of a family, and definitely felt accepted, But I’ll never be one of those guys. I didn’t get drafted there ... Jayson Tatum, obviously drafted there. Marcus Smart, drafted there. Robert Williams, drafted there. And the rest of the guys kind of rehabilitated their careers there. So me? Shit, how you going to rehabilitate me? What you going to teach me? How can you alter anything in my basketball life? I got an MVP already. I got scoring titles.”
“As time went on, I started to realize I’m just different from the rest of the guys. It’s not a bad thing. Just my circumstances and how I came up in the league. And on top of that, the media always looked at it like KD and the Celtics. So it’s like nobody could [give] a full acceptance of me there.”

“‘The motion offense we run in Boston, it only works to a certain point,’ he says. ‘We can totally rely on only our system for maybe the first two rounds. Then the next two rounds we’re going to have to mix in individual play. We’ve got to throw teams off, because they’re smarter in that round of playoffs. So now I had to dive into my bag, deep, to create stuff on my own, off the dribble, isos, pick-and-rolls, more so than let the offense create my points for me.’ He wanted to go to someplace where he’d be free to hone that sort of improvisational game throughout the regular season.”
"I'd really like to work with Jimmy Butler and Miami's young core"

Then he gets traded to Miami for Max Strus and two second round picks.

So does any of this look familiar?
I'm just dropping in to say that I enjoyed this post and I'd like to subscribe to your zine.
 

ColonelMustard

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Oct 23, 2006
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I’ve seen this a few times now and I have to address it….we are all really pretending that Durant was happy or just fine in GS? He was happy for a year and then stories started to come out about how he wasn’t happy anymore. It’s pretty much universally acknowledged that he was a massive headache for the franchise (Kerr, Bob Myers). And just to nip this in the bud, on the court the Durant Warriors we’re pretty much inevitable. They were so good that short of injury/completely giving up they were always going to win. I don’t think the potential Durant/Tatum Celtics are close to the level of the Durant Warriors.

It would have been literally impossible to be a “coach killer” to Kerr by the time Durant wen there but it was pretty clear Durant was antagonistic towards Kerr. He takes potshots at him pretty much whenever he has the opportunity.

The risk for the Celtics is that their culture isn’t nearly as established as the Warriors was. Udoka isn’t as entrenched as Kerr was and KD will have more of a leadership role here than he did in GS. If things go off track at all there’s a possibility of Durant undermining Udoka and turning the team toxic.

If there was a way where you could 100% guarantee everyone stays healthy then I think you end up trading JB/Grant/White:picks for Durant. It’s not an easy decision but you make it because Durant is that good….and I am a big Durant hater.
However, without that guarantee, I just don’t think you can pull the trigger. With the situation the Celtics are in, Durant isnt someone I want on the team if fheres unforeseen adversity
Curious about this Coach Killer talk here. I tried to look up Durant and Kerr beef but google did not avail me. I did see this interview on Draymond's podcast - everything seems good. I didn't watch it but in another summary, it said that Dray and Durant just wished Kerr and management addressed the beef head-on.

I get it. Durant has a lot of drama and he is mad sensitive. Seriously. Durant responded to a regular 9-5 on Twitter who was shitting on him for laughs. You're a soon-to-be billionaire, like, why?

It's hard to get through perception, vs. reality. I, for one, don't know who the real Durant is. I'm sure Ime does. I cannot imagine a scenario where Brad doesn't ask Ime his opinion on if he wants Durant here.

View: https://youtu.be/3x6DjeJNd64


Edit: Fast-forwarding through the interview, there seem to be interesting tidbits.

Dray asked Durant if he lost focus when they the opportunity to three-peat.

"I locked [in] with so much focus and determination to not f—k around every day, and you seen it. From workouts to practices, shootarounds, film, I was super locked in. It made people on the outside look at me like, 'Hold on. Is he enjoying this?' ... I liked that I was closed off and focused on my work. I maybe should've communicated that with more people who were interested in knowing what I was going through, but I had the most fun locking in and completing the task."

On why he choose the Warriors.

"I felt like I was the absolute perfect fit with what you guys were doing on both ends of the ball. And I knew my game had reached a point where I needed to really see what that looked like. And I thought that was just a no-brainer: I would do that s—t a million times again. I didn't second-guess at all."

Edit Edit: Like many here, I'm not sure if trading Jaylen/White for Durant is the right move. From a fan standpoint, I'm against it because I want to see Jaylen develop here (even for 2 more years). I enjoy watching White play as well and he is an incredibly crafty ball player. I also cannot imagine the hand-wringing if Durant was to get injured and we saw Jaylen blossom (or keep his continuous production).

Edit Edit Edit: I also cannot see why Tsai acquiesces to Durant's demands. The Nets are the best next year with Durant and he's a megastar who sells merchandise. There's a 50-foot poster of him looming outside Barclays center were maybe hundreds of thousands walkthrough daily. These people recognize Durant and he increases the overall investment value of the BK Nets. Tsai would be a fool to throw away monetary value like this.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Edit Edit Edit: I also cannot see why Tsai acquiesces to Durant's demands. The Nets are the best next year with Durant and he's a megastar who sells merchandise. There's a 50-foot poster of him looming outside Barclays center were maybe hundreds of thousands walkthrough daily. These people recognize Durant and he increases the overall investment value of the BK Nets. Tsai would be a fool to throw away monetary value like this.
If KD sits out training camp, he's no longer a megastar who sells merchandise, he's a shaky asset that is rapidly depreciating and becoming a huge headache for the team. And then the inevitable decisions come - do you pay KD if he's sitting? Do you fine him? Maybe Morey can get away with fining Simmons but if BRK fines KD, you think KD is ever going to play there again? And if BRK pays him, how long do they pay him?

In today's NBA, it's not that easy just to play chicken with KD, particularly when (to mix metaphors), KD holds most of the cards.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Maybe, but there's some risk for KD there: the more blatant it is that Celtics are talking to Nets about a trade the more motivated the Celtics will be to deny it and walk away to preserve their relationship with Jaylen. So I'm not sure it is fully in KD's interest to push harder for the Celtics, though I think he is pushing hard to make something happen....
that didn't take long for KD, even adding the 76ers to his list

https://celticswire.usatoday.com/2022/08/10/report-kevin-durant-sees-boston-celtics-as-desired-landing-spot-wants-to-play-with-marcus-smart/
 

moondog80

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benhogan

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The Sixers already have a a depleted stock of draft picks from the KD trade -- Tyrese Maxey and Tobias Harris isn't going to top Jaylen Brown and Derrick White.
I imagine KD will just keep adding teams, regardless of those named teams' ability to acquire him.
Humiliating and browbeating Tsai/Marks as much as possible, thus lowering their asking price. More drama to ensue as this drags out 2 months ahead of the start of the season

The NBA is a 365-day/year media event. While MLB heads towards playoff races and NFL/NCAA football camps/pre-season are in full swing, the Durant drama is a lead story for most sports shows.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The Sixers already have a a depleted stock of draft picks from the Harden trade -- Tyrese Maxey and Tobias Harris isn't going to top Jaylen Brown and Derrick White.
Morey is always going to get involved with a superstar! And he's super creative, though I just can't see how he can get to enough assets here.

Beyond the (small) chance they get him, also useful for Sixers to try and make Celtics or others pay as much as possible. And this is likely driven by Durant anyway, who wants to be SOMEWHERE and needs to dislodge the Nets to make it happen
 

ZMart100

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If KD sits out training camp, he's no longer a megastar who sells merchandise, he's a shaky asset that is rapidly depreciating and becoming a huge headache for the team. And then the inevitable decisions come - do you pay KD if he's sitting? Do you fine him? Maybe Morey can get away with fining Simmons but if BRK fines KD, you think KD is ever going to play there again? And if BRK pays him, how long do they pay him?

In today's NBA, it's not that easy just to play chicken with KD, particularly when (to mix metaphors), KD holds most of the cards.
I don't know that he would be rapidly depreciating if he sits. He will still have a lot of contract left and teams won't forget KD's talent level.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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The Sixers already have a a depleted stock of draft picks from the Harden trade -- Tyrese Maxey and Tobias Harris isn't going to top Jaylen Brown and Derrick White.
They do if we didn't really make that offer or have pulled it.
 

moondog80

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Sep 20, 2005
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Morey is always going to get involved with a superstar! And he's super creative, though I just can't see how he can get to enough assets here.

Beyond the (small) chance they get him, also useful for Sixers to try and make Celtics or others pay as much as possible. And this is likely driven by Durant anyway, who wants to be SOMEWHERE and needs to dislodge the Nets to make it happen
Meh. If the Celtics actually have offered Jaylen Brown, they are not going to up it because Tyrese Maxey is on the table.

Celtics are in a great spot IMO. They have the best offer on the table, one that is not likely to get surpassed, and they are also perfectly content to just not make the trade and run it back as is.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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Why? The last super team with two of these players went belly-up in six months. And they won nothing the time before that.
Are we just going to omit the fact that they were hurt in Year 1? And Embiid is a much, much better basketball player than Kyrie Irving. He’s a legitimate MVP. No chance in hell I’m letting an Embiid/Durant frontcourt form with Harden being perfect in the distributor role.
 

Red Right Ankle

Formerly the Story of Your Red Right Ankle
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Jul 2, 2006
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Jesus Christ, KD. Be transparent.

Does KD even want to come to Boston?

"Sources say KD LOVES Ime and wants to come to Boston!"

Giving up Smart is a non-starter. Can't give up 2 of our starters.

"Sources say KD would LOVE to play with Marcus Smart! Fuck Derrick White!"

Didn't he say that Boston was racist?

"Sources say KD LOVES racism! It's endearing!"
KD burner account identified.