Kirk and Callahan: Done

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,303
Providence, RI
If Borges hates the Patriots over what happened with Brady and Bledsoe, I also love that. I mean, I could sort of understand being upset at the time. Drew was a franchise QB and lost his job while injured. (I wonder if any SF writers have assburn over Kaepernick-Smith). But It's not like Brady turned out to be Mark Sanchez. Anyone, anywhere who looked down his nose at the HC over his handling of Bledsoe has to admit that BB was on to something when he stayed with Brady.

But as much I believe that the Bledsoe angle factors in, life is rarely that binary. I'm guessing that in reality there are a multitude of reasons -- all of them asinine -- that underly why Ronny has decided that BB is the Devil. And it's not as if Borges waited for Belichick to make the right move with Brady-Bledsoe before he teed off on Belichick. Borges' moronic Seymour-Light-Terrell column came out after the 2001 draft and before the Bledsoe decision if I'm not mistaken.
yes, I think the Bledsoe-Brady thing is kind of a red herring at this point. I'm sure it bothered him at the time, but that was a long time ago and the decision played out in a way that you really can't argue with.

This is about the Patriots making Borges job hard and him resenting that.
 

HomeBrew1901

Has Season 1 of "Manimal" on Blu Ray
SoSH Member
yes, I think the Bledsoe-Brady thing is kind of a red herring at this point. I'm sure it bothered him at the time, but that was a long time ago and the decision played out in a way that you really can't argue with.

This is about the Patriots making Borges job hard and him resenting that.
I was about to post the same thing. This is all about access and that Borges is no longer relevant and it was because Borges was wrong multiple times where BB was right and only made him look like a bigger fool.

Getting rid of Bledsoe was a major debate at the time but hindsight has proven that BB was right but there are only so many times that you can write an article with nothing but contempt and disdain and continue to be proven wrong (Seymour over can't miss wide receiver that is no longer in the league?) before people start ignoring you.

That's where Borges is now, he's irrelevant and a joke and arguing with Pete Sheppard.
 

ForKeeps

New Member
Oct 13, 2011
464
Going to dinner with the guy isn't the problem. Lying about it is.
To you and me, yeah. I'm talking about Pete Sheppard, who brought up the dinner thing to embarrass/impugn Borges, that's what's relevant to my point, not that Borges was dumb enough to lie about it when confronted. And by the way, Sheppard isn't honest either. You will never hear him say, "Yes, I'm just a homer", just as you'll never hear Borges admit to his obvious biases. That whole "he's the voice of the fan!" thing is you projecting, he would never admit it. Again, I hate them both equally, don't mistake me. And btw, if you honestly think the line between the type of "journalist" Borges is and what Sheppard does hasn't blurred completely at this point, I don't know what to tell you.
 

Patriot_Reign

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2011
1,230
wow if true

Dennis & Callahan has fallen to 7th place Men 25-54 in November. The final week of the month, they were in 10th.

Comparatively, 98.5 was 1st in both, and ESPN 28th.
http://radiodiscussions.com/smf/index.php?topic=224015.0
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
22,650
Maine
Jerry Thornton from Barstool Sports. I haven't listened, but he had been doing a spot on Felger and Mazz weekly that was pretty good.
Zero flash experience and apparently the main producer (Chach?) was off today, so the guy was screwed in that he was unprepared and he had no one to cover up for that. I caught the first 10 minutes of the show when they went over that, then they started in re-re-re-re-re-re-re-hashing the whole starters-on-special-teams Gronk thing and I switched off.
 

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
18,126
Kevin Winter replaces Meter starting Monday as the full time flash guy.

http://www.boston.com/sports/touching_all_the_bases/2012/12/kevin_winter_lands_update_gig.html?camp=twit:tatb&dlvrit=845880
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
22,650
Maine
I like how the official announcement is that he is the "sports anchor" of the morning show, not a flash guy. Trying to make the job out to be so much more important and prestigious than it really is.
 

Patriot_Reign

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2011
1,230
I liked Kevin Winters on 890, but after the Borges/ Shep thing last week I'm really surprised he didn't get the gig.
 

Phenom

as if andy gresh and gary tanguay had a baby
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
998
It's over for these guys.

They can tweak the format, change flash guys and boast about having "the best interviews in town." It doesn't make a difference.

Dennis and Callahan have alienated thousands of listeners in this market, and the people aren't coming back. They might as well go back to talking politics, at least they'd enjoy doing the show more.

The same can be said for much of WEEI's lineup, but it's especially true for D&C. Until the station overhauls its identity, the ratings will not increase. They've shortened commercial breaks, moved to FM and changed the lineup. Nothing has worked.
 

crossfire

New Member
Jun 25, 2010
12
It's over for these guys.

They can tweak the format, change flash guys and boast about having "the best interviews in town." It doesn't make a difference.

Dennis and Callahan have alienated thousands of listeners in this market, and the people aren't coming back. They might as well go back to talking politics, at least they'd enjoy doing the show more.

The same can be said for much of WEEI's lineup, but it's especially true for D&C. Until the station overhauls its identity, the ratings will not increase. They've shortened commercial breaks, moved to FM and changed the lineup. Nothing has worked.
I'm enjoying every minute of there failure.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
20,581
It's amazing how bad WEEI got smoked. IMO their best bet would be getting rid of D&C and having a real solid sports show to take on Toucher and Rich. I love T&R but a lot would want a more focused sports show. Then get rid of Ordway and partner Holley with someone strong. They were paying Ordway a mill a year so they can clearly afford talent.

the thing is WEEI is horrible start to finish. D&C suck, mutt and merloni are boring and The Big Show is just awkward and forced. Sports Hub has its flaws but WEEI exploits none of them.
 

Andy Merchant

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2010
2,062
I'm also enjoying the fall of D&C after they became so smug and arrogant after being the only game in town for so many years. Hopefully EEI will take the opportunity to clean house when the D&C and Ordway contracts are up and give us viable alternatives to TSH. Heck, they could put something decent on from 10-2 and I would switch to that today since Andy Gresh sucks so badly.
 

Gambler7

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2003
3,803
Heck, they could put something decent on from 10-2 and I would switch to that today since Andy Gresh sucks so badly.
Something like Dale and Holley? One of the dumbest moves they have made in the list of many of them. If that show was still together it easily competes with Gresh and Zo, if not beats it.
 

Vandalman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
2,580
SE Mass
Callahan tweeted that D&C were number four in the country on the list of 30 Top Talkers as it appears in Radio Ink Magazine.

We’ve named individuals, duos, teams, and crews. As long as they’re not syndicated, are focused on the local sports scene, and were nominated by their station or company, they were eligible to be on our list. Following the nominations, our panel of sports experts went to work to determine the order.


#1) Mike Francesa - WFAN in New York
#2) Michael Kay - WEPN (ESPN) in New York
#3) Mike Mulligan & Brian Hanley - WSCR-AM (CBS) in Chicago
#4) John Dennis & Gerry Callahan - WEEI (Entercom) in Boston
#5) Gary Radnich - KNBR (Cumulus) in San Francisco
#6) Eric Bickel, John-Paul Flaim, Jason Bishop and John Auville (The Sports Junkies) - WJFK (CBS) in DC
#7) Boomer & Carton - WFAN in New York
#8) Angelo Cataldi - WIP (CBS) in Philadelphia
#9) Tom Waddle and Marc Silverman - WMVP (ESPN) in Chicago
#10) George Dunhm, Craig Miller and Keith Gordon - KTCK (Cumulus) in Dallas
#11) Charlie Pallilo - KBME (Clear Channel) in Houston
#12) Dan McNeil - WSCR (CBS) in Chicago
#13) Petros & Money - KLAC (Clear Channel) L.A.
#14) Brian Murphy and Paul Mccaffrey - KNBR (Cumulus) in San Francisco
#15) Mike Gastineau - KJR (Clear Channel) Seattle (Mike retired after our issue published)
#16) Glenn Ordway & Michael Holley - WEEI (Entercom) Boston
#17) Randy Galloway - KESN (ESPN) in Dallas
#18) Fred Toettcher & Rich Shertenlieb - WBZ-FM (CBS) in Boston
#19) Sandy Clough - KKFN (Lincoln) in Denver
#20) Tom Tolbert - KNBR (Cumulus) San Francisco
#21) Mitch Levy - KJR (Clear Channel) in Seattle
#22) Michael Joseph - WYGM (Clear Channel) Orlando
#23) Jeremy White and Howard Simon - WGR-AM (Entercom) in Buffalo
#24) Mike Schopp & Chris Parker - WGR-AM (Entercom) Buffalo
#25) Jody Oehler - KFFN - (Journal) in Tucson
#26) Adam Gold and Joe Ovies - WCMC (Capitol) Raleigh
#27) John Bishop and Mike'l Severe - KOZN (NRG) in Omaha
#28) Bob Fescoe - KCSP (Entercom) Kansas City
#29) Matt Moscona - WNXX (Guaranty) in Baton Rouge
#30) Joby Fawcett - WEJL ( Shamrock) Scranton
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2001
25,518
So the RadioInk piece is basically the industry's opinion and has no real grounding in fact or numbers?

Great for D&C, Karl Rove must be very proud of them.
 

Andy Merchant

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2010
2,062
Something like Dale and Holley? One of the dumbest moves they have made in the list of many of them. If that show was still together it easily competes with Gresh and Zo, if not beats it.
I would take Dale and Holley over Gresh and Zo any day of the week. Even though I had already given up on D&C and Ordway I still switched back to EEI and listened to Dale and Holley from 10-2. Once they brought in Mutt & Merloni I just made a clean break from EEI even though I can't stand Gresh.
 

Patriot_Reign

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2011
1,230
Callahan blocked me on Twitter after he made a post about something making him sick, and I responded that finishing November in 10th place would do that to me too.
"blocked"

oops, mr. thin skin
 

timlinin8th

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2009
1,521
So the RadioInk piece is basically the industry's opinion and has no real grounding in fact or numbers?
Yeah, not really sure what the point of that piece was aside from insiders golf-clapping for one another. Felger and Mazz is probably the top rated sports show in town right now and didn't even make the list in favor of three other Boston duos? Hm.
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
20,581
Yeah, not really sure what the point of that piece was aside from insiders golf-clapping for one another. Felger and Mazz is probably the top rated sports show in town right now and didn't even make the list in favor of three other Boston duos? Hm.
And 90% of it is just bio's and nothing to do with any of the shows. 'Michael Holley started at WEEI in...." etc. etc. Best part about that list is 3 of the 6 Boston selections should be unemployed in the near future.
Something like Dale and Holley? One of the dumbest moves they have made in the list of many of them. If that show was still together it easily competes with Gresh and Zo, if not beats it.
This has been one of their biggest mistakes recently IMO. I know they had to do something with Holley or he'd probably have jumped ship to a drive time slot but I really liked Dale & Holley. I don't mind Gresh & Zo, but when they start acting like meat heads it'd be nice to have something else to listen to, especially when it's not football season.

I'd like to see them put Holley and Michael Smith together once Ordway's contract is up.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
49,595
Hartford, CT
Holley can be good, but he's nails on a chalkboard when he starts into his shticky I'M GONNA YELL OVER YOU AND REPEAT PET CATCHPHRASES OVER AND OVER AGAIN. He does this with callers constantly, at least during some of the podcasts I've listened to. It's like a whole performance piece he launches into.

Michael Smith would be an interesting grab, but it seems like ESPN is grooming him for a featured role on then network. Does WEEI have the cash to lure him away? Also, I can't say my opinion of him grew much after seeing a few segments of 'Numbers Never Lie'.
 
Holley can be good, but he's nails on a chalkboard when he starts into his shticky I'M GONNA YELL OVER YOU AND REPEAT PET CATCHPHRASES OVER AND OVER AGAIN. He does this with callers constantly, at least during some of the podcasts I've listened to. It's like a whole performance piece he launches into.

Michael Smith would be an interesting grab, but it seems like ESPN is grooming him for a featured role on then network. Does WEEI have the cash to lure him away? Also, I can't say my opinion of him grew much after seeing a few segments of 'Numbers Never Lie'.
Agree 100% on Holley. I think he's a talented, interesting guy who is just stuck in an awful situation on the Big Show. I always thought he'd be a perfect pairing with Felger. That said, I fucking despise Michael Smith. Have you ever heard him sit in and just discuss sports on an open forum? The guy is incredibly delusional. He constantly talks about how he will someday be an NFL GM and how he just needs an opportunity from an organization. And he's serious. He would argue with people about it on twitter, explaining he knows more than many execs and that its only a matter of time before it happens.

If I was EEI, I'd make a run at Ryan Russillo, assuming he and Dennis promise not to slap fight each other at Christmas parties.
 

Phenom

as if andy gresh and gary tanguay had a baby
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
998
They're in a holding pattern until Dennis, Callahan and Ordway are up. No doubt about that.

But I'm not sure who the next guy in line is. It looks like they're grooming Kirk Minihane for a bigger role on the station. I don't know much about him, but I can't imagine Minihane making up for the 4+ points both D&C and "The Big Show" are behind in the ratings.

The biggest misstep of Jason Wolfe's tenure was not giving Felger a full time show after ESPN Radio went under. He would've stayed if given the opportunity, anybody would have chosen WEEI over a start-up station (even if it was backed by CBS) at the time. I still say Felger and Callahan would be the best pairing in the market.

The second biggest misstep was breaking up Dale and Holley, but I understand the rationale there. If you think you can improve a drive time show by sacrificing the midday, you do it. The problem is, Holley and Ordway are terrible together, and Mutnansky wasn't ready to take over a daily show.

There in lies the problem, though. I don't see who the next guy is for WEEI to go to. Jack in LA mentions Russillo, but I'm not sure if Russillo would take the job. He's one of the premier voices on ESPN Radio, and seems to be doing just fine.

Maybe we should start a different thread to talk about this, but who are the realistic options for EEI to go after? Keep in mind, Boston is such a provincial market, I'm not sure how wise it would be to throw a bunch of money at a national guy who has no strong ties to the region.
 

Vinho Tinto

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 9, 2003
7,167
Auburn, MA
I still say Felger and Callahan would be the best pairing in the market.
It's been mentioned previously, but they were excellent while paired (Dennis was out recovering from surgery). Felger didn't allow Callahan to mentally mail it in and the show had an energy that D&C has never generated. It took Felger about 4 seconds on air to get Callahan to drop the Headlines segment. Considering how much Dennis stunk during Callahan's cancer recovery, Wolfe took the path of least resistance by keeping the established show intact rather than taking a chance on Felger. That one move could have saved that station a ton of headache.
 

Rusty13

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 3, 2007
5,764
What's Beetle's contract status? EEI should immediately go after him if/when he becomes available. That was a mistake by TSH not giving him the DA slot.
 

Dalton Jones

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 24, 2001
1,410
Agreed. Beetle would be excellent with his own show, by himself or paired with someone. I would throw ridiculous money at him.
 

mcpickl

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2007
4,668
Agree 100% on Holley. I think he's a talented, interesting guy who is just stuck in an awful situation on the Big Show. I always thought he'd be a perfect pairing with Felger. That said, I fucking despise Michael Smith. Have you ever heard him sit in and just discuss sports on an open forum? The guy is incredibly delusional. He constantly talks about how he will someday be an NFL GM and how he just needs an opportunity from an organization. And he's serious. He would argue with people about it on twitter, explaining he knows more than many execs and that its only a matter of time before it happens.

If I was EEI, I'd make a run at Ryan Russillo, assuming he and Dennis promise not to slap fight each other at Christmas parties.
They did this already, earlier this year when Russillos' deal had expired at ESPN. Reports were it was to pair him with Holley, which I would've loved. Unfortunately, he re-signed with ESPN
 

Vandalman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
2,580
SE Mass
Bruce Allen's take on the recent D & C ratings struggles: blow 'em up!

It’s time.

If WEEI wants to ever have a chance to climb out of the hole they’ve dug themselves into against The SportsHub, they need to make some major changes. It starts in the morning.

For years, John Dennis and Gerry Callahan has represented the very worst in institutional arrogance. They trumpeted their numbers when they were doing well, mocked the competition, said and did what they wanted, and were generally untouchable no matter what they did.

Because there was no real competition against them, they won easily. They faced the ultimate lineup of tomato cans over the years.

Even as recently as last spring, they were stubbornly and arrogantly clinging to the notion that they were number one, even if the facts said otherwise.

But now, they are eons behind Toucher and Rich in the latest ratings book, (T&R finished first at 9.1, D&C sixth at 5.7) and I cannot foresee a scenario in which they ever overtake T&R again...
 

NortheasternPJ

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 16, 2004
20,581
As stated later in that article, moving them to WRKO and continuing the simulcast seems like the way to go. That way they can talk 20% sports and 80% other crap. Their following will go with them, the contracts can finish out and it clears out the morning slot for a better team and someone who actually wants to talk about sports. I hate D&C with a passion, but I think there is a slot for the talk they want, just not on a sports station.
 

Norm loves Vera

Joe wants Trump to burn
SoSH Member
Dec 25, 2003
5,879
Peace Dale, RI
"are you aware or as aware as we are of the playoff ramifications as to who you will play based on who wins this weekend." asked of Rob Ninkovich just now on air.

Wow.. just...Wow.........
 

Gambler7

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2003
3,803
"are you aware or as aware as we are of the playoff ramifications as to who you will play based on who wins this weekend." asked of Rob Ninkovich just now on air.

Wow.. just...Wow.........
This is one huge difference between the two morning shows. The Ninkovich interviews are boring, and have been all year. As soon as he is off the air they make a couple snide comments about it and move on. T&R had Arrington on and those interviews were brutal and they admitted to it the first week or two, so they adjusted and threw in some different games (played guess that rap song/rock song vs Fred, etc) that actually brought out some personality and at least make the interviews listenable.
 

Koufax

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
5,979
D&C usually do good interviews, but the Ninkovitch interview was awful from start to finish.