Kirk and Callahan: Done

henrydog

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I really like Minihane.  He loves to talk, has lots of opinions and doesn't back down to anyone.  Just listen to the full frontal assault he laid on Seigel regarding his 'Fellowship of the Miserable' article in Boston magazine - Minihane destroyed the poor guy.
 
I'm not sure I like him on D&C, as I don't think his style would go too well with their miserable curmudgeon act, especially if he's only the flash guy.  I think he'd be great paired with Holley, though.
 
Hell I'd be psyched if they just replaced Mike Adams with Minihane.  Anything to get rid of Planet Mikey.
 

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Well, Minihane is on the show this morning.  I missed the open of the show so if they explained exactly what his role is, I didn't hear.  He is sitting in the main studio with D&C, not in a separate booth like Meter and Winter did.  The NESN telecast doesn't air the radio flashes, so I have no idea who's reading them but if he's not in the flash booth, I don't think Minihane is doing them.
 

Patriot_Reign

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I had NESN on at the beginning of the show...they mentioned Minihane was there with them, but didn't make any big announcement like he's a permanent host.  Maybe it'll happen later in the show.
 
edit:  one of the generic flash guys is still doing the flash
 

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Finn reports that Minihane has been added as a full-time 3rd host on the show.  I guess they were trying to add that third voice like Meter provided from his flash booth, but realized they couldn't get it from a "flash guy" after the Winter experiment. 
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Heard the interview with Millar this morning - D&C dominated, with Minihane getting a token question, Meter-style.
 
It could work, though. Minihane just doesn't give a shit. I think he might really bust on Dennis, especially, which could be entertaining. He certainly won't be a suck-up like Meter. I didn't hear any flashes, so not sure who was doing those. Finn says it won't be Minihane.
 
The name is an interesting point. D&C&M?
 

Phenom

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So, Minihane is now a host!  THE SAVIOR IS HERE!
 
How big of a swing will this produce in the ratings?  Are D&C back to number 1?  
 
Sarcasm aside, I can't see one person making the switch from T&R to D&C now.  Maybe Minihane will bust Dennis' chops a little bit.  But really, does anybody think this will have an impact on the ratings?  Who in the world is tuning in to hear Kirk Minihane?
 
This is a band-aid.  The shoe hasn't dropped with D&C yet.
 

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Phenom said:
So, Minihane is now a host!  THE SAVIOR IS HERE!
 
How big of a swing will this produce in the ratings?  Are D&C back to number 1?  
 
Sarcasm aside, I can't see one person making the switch from T&R to D&C now.  Maybe Minihane will bust Dennis' chops a little bit.  But really, does anybody think this will have an impact on the ratings?  Who in the world is tuning in to hear Kirk Minihane?
 
This is a band-aid.  The shoe hasn't dropped with D&C yet.
 
Perhaps the three man show is an extended audition for Minihane with the NESN people, greasing the wheels for letting Dennis go?  Or letting both D&C go and sliding someone else in with Minihane?  One can only hope (and that's a vote against D&C more so than an endorsement of Minihane for anything).
 

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Phenom said:
So, Minihane is now a host!  THE SAVIOR IS HERE!
 
How big of a swing will this produce in the ratings?  Are D&C back to number 1?  
 
Sarcasm aside, I can't see one person making the switch from T&R to D&C now.  Maybe Minihane will bust Dennis' chops a little bit.  But really, does anybody think this will have an impact on the ratings?  Who in the world is tuning in to hear Kirk Minihane?
 
This is a band-aid.  The shoe hasn't dropped with D&C yet.
I would never switch full time but it might cause me to listen more often.  I love T&R but there are times when Fred and Wallach are insufferable or they keep harping on something they find funny (drunken recaps) that I have no interest in.  At those times I might go to D&C if they are talking sports, but if I hear anything else or Mike Adams I immediately switch to my Ipod. 
 
From what I have heard from Minihane so far (pre D&C) I'm not a fan, but if it bumps Dennis out and gets Gerry to talk more sports I might listen more often.
 

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I guess it's too much to hope that Minnihan has been told it's his job to annoy Dennis into quitting on air. 
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Depends on how you define "interesting," I guess. He was pretty high on the clubhouse chemistry signings, saying lots of things like, "they're a TEAM now, not just a group of guys," but then providing lots of caveats about how you still have to have players perform and if Lester and Buck don't pitch well, blah, blah.
 
It was pretty entertaining, but mostly devoid of content. Basically, Napoli, Dempster, Victornio, Gomes, and Ross are all top-notch dudes and great teammates, etc.
 
The funniest part was Millar ripping on Napoli for always leaving his top button on his shirt unbuttoned. Callahan accused Millar about doing the same thing and Millar was indignant: "Oh, no, I was always a top buttoner!" Fairly amusing.
 

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HomeBrew1901 said:
Turned this on because I was watching the Bruins last night, holy shit is this awkward. I think they are openly mocking Minihane with equal time but can't tell if they are just joking.
I think they're mocking Finn's article that described Minihane as being an "equal voice" on the show.
 

Andy Merchant

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HomeBrew1901 said:
OK. That makes a lot more sense. Still awkward but if Minihane keeps challenging Callahan they will be a quick number 2 option.
 
D&C have been number 2 for quite some time now.
 

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I was listening a bit this morning and I'm left wondering, are D&C going to double-team Minihane in arguments all the time? Because that's going to get really boring.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I think it's only fair to expect D&C to have a rhythm in talking to one another that's going to be hard for them to break. I was listening for about 20 mins this morning and they have a way of going back and forth with each other that leaves Minihane having to interrupt all the time, but that might go away with time.
 
For all of Dennis' many faults, he is a professional host and he's generally pretty decent at keeping the conversation moving fluidly (this is something Holley is really struggling with as first host on the Big Show, by the way. Holley is a second man, not a host, in my opinion, so Salk better be good). If he can be open to actually involving Minihane, I actually think D&C&M could be pretty good, with Dennis handling the mechanics of coming in and out of breaks and handling the welcomes and goodbyes of the guests and Minihane and Callahan actually both being fairly thoughtful and funny.
 
What they still lack most is creativity. There needs to be more variety than just talk-guest-talk, though I'm not sure what I'm looking for there.
 
Then again, I'm in Maine and don't have the T&R alternative to really judge by. Our local morning show is a struggle.
 

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MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
I think it's only fair to expect D&C to have a rhythm in talking to one another that's going to be hard for them to break. I was listening for about 20 mins this morning and they have a way of going back and forth with each other that leaves Minihane having to interrupt all the time, but that might go away with time.
 
For all of Dennis' many faults, he is a professional host and he's generally pretty decent at keeping the conversation moving fluidly (this is something Holley is really struggling with as first host on the Big Show, by the way. Holley is a second man, not a host, in my opinion, so Salk better be good). If he can be open to actually involving Minihane, I actually think D&C&M could be pretty good, with Dennis handling the mechanics of coming in and out of breaks and handling the welcomes and goodbyes of the guests and Minihane and Callahan actually both being fairly thoughtful and funny.
 
I've listened for most of the 9:00 hour ... Minihane has talked maybe two or three times.
 
Dennis and Callahan have been together for 15 years.  It's going to be hard for a third man to helicopter in and be an equal voice on the show.  
 
Like I said, I can't imagine anybody will switch from Toucher and Rich to D&C because of this switch.  The spring ratings book will come in, D&C will still be tied with NPR, and then real changes will start to happen.  This isn't a real change.  
 

HomeBrew1901

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Phenom said:
I've listened for most of the 9:00 hour ... Minihane has talked maybe two or three times.
 
Dennis and Callahan have been together for 15 years.  It's going to be hard for a third man to helicopter in and be an equal voice on the show.  
 
Like I said, I can't imagine anybody will switch from Toucher and Rich to D&C because of this switch.  The spring ratings book will come in, D&C will still be tied with NPR, and then real changes will start to happen.  This isn't a real change.  
I disagree.  It might take a few weeks or months, but I can see people over 40-45 switching back if this experiment works.  I love T&R but sometimes their antics get old and if someone is looking for serious sports talk they aren't going to stick with T&R, especially during big events, trades, etc...
 
As I mentioned above I'm not a Minihane fan, but in the 15 or 20 minutes I watched them I liked how he challenged Gerry while Dennis kind of sunk into the background. To Gerry's credit he didn't back down and challenged him back and if they get some kind of chemistry I can see it working in their favor.
 

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I think it might take a bit to get the flow down, but once they figure it out, it could be good.  If for no other reason than Minihane does inject a bit of a more youthful perspective on things.  Meter kind of did the same, but as he was the flash guy and a giant weeny who backed down if you pushed him with a feather, he didn't add much.  Minihane not being in the flash booth (where Dennis could turn his back and ignore him) and not being afraid to speak his mind even in the face of vehement opposition could be a very good thing for the show.  What I've heard so far has made it clear that while they maybe don't like the idea of a third "equal", D&C definitely preferred Minihane to Winter in the flash guy "tryouts".
 

CantKeepmedown

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MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
I think it's only fair to expect D&C to have a rhythm in talking to one another that's going to be hard for them to break. I was listening for about 20 mins this morning and they have a way of going back and forth with each other that leaves Minihane having to interrupt all the time, but that might go away with time.
 
For all of Dennis' many faults, he is a professional host and he's generally pretty decent at keeping the conversation moving fluidly (this is something Holley is really struggling with as first host on the Big Show, by the way. Holley is a second man, not a host, in my opinion, so Salk better be good). If he can be open to actually involving Minihane, I actually think D&C&M could be pretty good, with Dennis handling the mechanics of coming in and out of breaks and handling the welcomes and goodbyes of the guests and Minihane and Callahan actually both being fairly thoughtful and funny.
 
What they still lack most is creativity. There needs to be more variety than just talk-guest-talk, though I'm not sure what I'm looking for there.
 
Then again, I'm in Maine and don't have the T&R alternative to really judge by. Our local morning show is a struggle.
 
Ooof, you got that right.  I'm not a fan of D&C at all, but the other option here is beyond brutal.  Not to get too far off topic, but what are your thoughts on the afternoon guys?
 

ForKeeps

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Chad Finn said:
They mock the most when they're scared and know I'm right. Watching the simulcast is pretty interesting. One host goes well beyond the other in engaging Minihane. He's the one who will still be on the show in six months.
 
 

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CantKeepmedown said:
 
Ooof, you got that right.  I'm not a fan of D&C at all, but the other option here is beyond brutal.  Not to get too far off topic, but what are your thoughts on the afternoon guys?
I think they're some of the most knowledgable, in terms of the national scene, of all the hosts in New England. They know college football like crazy, and are very solid on the NFL. Plus Javier is the only full-timer around who actually played pro hockey. He does color for the Pirates and is pretty good, talking intelligently about player skills and in-game strategy. Sedenka is a decent play by play guy for the red claws and is getting better and knows the celts organization well.

They're not stats guys, though. The commercial they have celebrating their ignorance of sophisticated statistical analysis of baseball is troublesome and they play up their jockness a bit.

They try hard, which is important, and I learn things sometimes. The heavy reliance on unscreened callers will always make shows uneven, but they get and conduct a lot of pretty good interviews. They have a good rapport with Chad. I'm not as sure about the guy from Barstool. They do a good job of bringing in other teams' beat writers.

On the drive home, i usually go with them or music.
 

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Credit to Minihane for not letting Gerry get away with saying Te'o would drop to the 3rd or 4th round if he comes out of the closet.  There is absolutely no chance Meter would have challenged Callahan on that assertion.
 

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This morning I was curious to see how the three interact.  Gerry was said it would be 10x harder for Te'o to play as a gay man in the NFL than it was for Jackie Robinson.  Minihane took him to task and said asked if he really thought teammates would refuse to take the field with him and that he would receive death threats.
 
Then he asked if today, there were a large national hooded group that killed people for being gay, hanging them and dragging them behind cars. Gerry didn't have much to say but right before the commercial, he goes...oh that kid in Wisconsin, Sheppard got tied to a pole and died, see it DOES happen.
 
Now, I am a very pro-gay rights guy, but this argument is just absurd.
 

wutang112878

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I am rooting for D&C's failure, so I am glad they are letting them talk about it, but EEI has to be considered incompetent to let this go on.  This debate isnt going to help them win the ratings battle, and just makes Gerry look like more of an awful human being.  Just keep doing the same thing over and over and I am sure those ratings will turn around!
 

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wutang112878 said:
I am rooting for D&C's failure, so I am glad they are letting them talk about it, but EEI has to be considered incompetent to let this go on.  This debate isnt going to help them win the ratings battle, and just makes Gerry look like more of an awful human being.  Just keep doing the same thing over and over and I am sure those ratings will turn around!
 
Haven' heard the show the past few days ... but please tell me Gerry isn't condoning how difficult he thinks it would be for a gay football player in the NFL.  That would be the last straw as far as I'm concerned.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Gerry is doing some classic projecting. Since HE would downgrade Teo if HE were a general manager, he's making the argument that him coming out would affect his draft stock considerably, bumping him from the second round to the fifth, say. Because, you know, the GM "wouldn't want the distraction."
 
Minihane is crushing him, which is sort of embarrassing. Callahan doesn't seem to get that while you CAN make fun of someone for just about anything, right now you CAN'T actually direct homophobic slurs at a gay person when the media is around and about. It's just not acceptable in society anymore. You can actually be arrested for committing hate speech. So Minihane just keeps asking, "how would that work, exactly," and Gerry has nothing.
 
Actually, though, I was listening to that yesterday and didn't listen today because I caught an initial two minutes about some dad with a nine-year-old in a hip hop video or something and I knew that was off the rails for the whole drive in. Plugged in the iPod. Can't believe they revisited the hypothetical gay Teo again today. That's pathetic.
 

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Phenom said:
Haven' heard the show the past few days ... but please tell me Gerry isn't condoning how difficult he thinks it would be for a gay football player in the NFL.  That would be the last straw as far as I'm concerned.
 
Have you ever seen a large dog, like a Rotty or GS, straining on a leash to get after something it wants to go after? 
 
Callahan is the large dog; a gay football player is a T-bone with peanut butter and bacon smeared all over it. 
 
Its either that or Callahan is a moth and the gay football player is a bug zapper. 
 
It's coming, literally. 
 

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soxfan121 said:
Have you ever seen a large dog, like a Rotty or GS, straining on a leash to get after something it wants to go after? 
 
Callahan is the large dog; a gay football player is a T-bone with peanut butter and bacon smeared all over it. 
 
Its either that or Callahan is a moth and the gay football player is a bug zapper. 
 
It's coming, literally. 
Not trying to defend Gerry but yesterday I turned into Felgar and Mazz  and it seemed like Felgar was making sort of the same argument saying he would not draft Te'o due to the distractions he would cost. He said it would be too much of a headache especially for the Pats. Maybe I am misunderstanding his (Felgar's) argument, but what is the different between what he said and what Gerry said.  They both said that Te'o would drop in the draft. I did not hear what Callahan said and am trying to reconstruct  Callahan's argument based on the thread. Sorry for any misconceptions and please fill me in on the differences 
 

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richgedman'sghost said:
Not trying to defend Gerry but yesterday I turned into Felgar and Mazz  and it seemed like Felgar was making sort of the same argument saying he would not draft Te'o due to the distractions he would cost. He said it would be too much of a headache especially for the Pats. Maybe I am misunderstanding his (Felgar's) argument, but what is the different between what he said and what Gerry said.  They both said that Te'o would drop in the draft. I did not hear what Callahan said and am trying to reconstruct  Callahan's argument based on the thread. Sorry for any misconceptions and please fill me in on the differences 
 
Was Felger specifically addressing Te'o's sexuality as a "distraction"?  Callahan clearly was.  Felger could have been arguing the distraction of the actual scandal (the fake girlfriend thing) without going into discussions or innuendos about Te'o's sexual orientation.  Between the story of Te'o being "catfished" and his poor performance at the combine, there's plenty of wiggle room for teams to back away from the guy and cause his draft stock to drop without touching the question of whether or not he is gay.
 

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richgedman'sghost said:
Not trying to defend Gerry but yesterday I turned into Felgar and Mazz  and it seemed like Felgar was making sort of the same argument saying he would not draft Te'o due to the distractions he would cost. He said it would be too much of a headache especially for the Pats. Maybe I am misunderstanding his (Felgar's) argument, but what is the different between what he said and what Gerry said.  They both said that Te'o would drop in the draft. I did not hear what Callahan said and am trying to reconstruct  Callahan's argument based on the thread. Sorry for any misconceptions and please fill me in on the differences 
Felger said something similar today with Wiggy. Not that he wouldn't draft Te'o but that he could see coaches and GMs passing on him because they don't want to deal with the distraction it would cause.
 

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
Was Felger specifically addressing Te'o's sexuality as a "distraction"?  Callahan clearly was.  Felger could have been arguing the distraction of the actual scandal (the fake girlfriend thing) without going into discussions or innuendos about Te'o's sexual orientation.  Between the story of Te'o being "catfished" and his poor performance at the combine, there's plenty of wiggle room for teams to back away from the guy and cause his draft stock to drop without touching the question of whether or not he is gay.
nope specifically saying it would be a distraction, and anyone that tries to argue that his sexuality wouldn't be a potential distraction to an NFL team is full of shit. It shouldn't be but most of this country can't agree on gay marriage, an NFL locker room won't be any different.
 

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Mike Florio on Dan Patrick said: According to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk and NBC Sports, NFL coaches and GMs want to know if Notre Dame linebacker Manti Te'o is gay.

"On the field, you still have to account for what happened in the BCS National Championship Game against Alabama," Florio told the Dan Patrick Show. "Here's the elephant in the room for the teams and it shouldn't matter, but we have to step aside from the rest of reality and walk into the unique industry that is the NFL. Teams want to know whether Manti Te'o is gay. They just want to know. They want to know because in an NFL locker room, it's a different world. It shouldn't be that way."

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/21766746/nfl-combine-florio-says-teams-want-to-know-if-teo-is-gay
 

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Red(s)HawksFan said:
Was Felger specifically addressing Te'o's sexuality as a "distraction"?  Callahan clearly was.  Felger could have been arguing the distraction of the actual scandal (the fake girlfriend thing) without going into discussions or innuendos about Te'o's sexual orientation.  Between the story of Te'o being "catfished" and his poor performance at the combine, there's plenty of wiggle room for teams to back away from the guy and cause his draft stock to drop without touching the question of whether or not he is gay.
 
Felger was talking about Te'o's sexuality as a distraction.  The distinction is, he kept saying how wrong it is that Te'o's sexual orientation would be a potential issue, how he personally doesn't care, etc.  Felger was criticizing the NFL culture.
 
If Callahan is doing the same thing, then he and Felger have the same argument.  But if he's sympathetic to the fact that it would be a distraction, then it's different.   
 

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Callahan was not criticizing the NFL culture. He was demanding that it be acknowledged: NFL locker rooms will not allow an openly gay player, etc., etc. He was arguing draft rank dropping, yes, but also that GMs would just KNOW that being openly gay in the NFL is not tenable. Because "that's the way it is."
 
It's paranoia as prediction, though, and that's where Minihane did well to call him out. Callahan kept going with "they" arguments - they'll be all over him, they'll make it hard for him, blah, blah. 
 
But the question is valid: How will that work? Will they beat him up? Will they hit him harder than they already hit people? Will they headhunt and risk penalties and fines because they really hate the gays? Will they call him epithets that are actually illegal with hate speech laws in place? Maybe, but mostly not, right?
 
Worst of all, though, is the speculation, and everyone is culpable there. That "is he or isn't he" is a legitimate topic of conversation is weak. 
 

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If Callahan really wants to have an intelligent discussion around how will that work, invite Buckley on the show.  While he doesnt cover football I think he would have an interesting perspective on the issue.  Callahan himself, with is abrasive style just is not the appropriate moderator for the topic
 

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wutang112878 said:
If Callahan really wants to have an intelligent discussion around how will that work, invite Buckley on the show.  While he doesnt cover football I think he would have an interesting perspective on the issue.  Callahan himself, with is abrasive style just is not the appropriate moderator for the topic
They brought up Buck's name at some point, as an example. Gerry said that you really couldn't use him as an example, because :"everybody loves Buck"  He said that it would have to be somebody like CHB or Borges to make the analogy work.  
 

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Phenom said:
Felger was talking about Te'o's sexuality as a distraction.  The distinction is, he kept saying how wrong it is that Te'o's sexual orientation would be a potential issue, how he personally doesn't care, etc.  Felger was criticizing the NFL culture.
 
If Callahan is doing the same thing, then he and Felger have the same argument.  But if he's sympathetic to the fact that it would be a distraction, then it's different.   
 I wouldn't go as far as you that Felger was criticizing the NFL, more acknowledging the issue that it is going to be tough for Te'o to both get drafted and the crap he is going to take in the locker room just becaue of rumors.  Wiggy said the bigger issue is going to be the knucklehead jokers that were probably going to cause the biggest issue by taking a few jokes too far.
 
Didn't hear Callahan but I can believe it, when the Sox were going on Queer Eye for a Straight Guy, he was sickening with the disgust he had for homosexuals.
 
MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
Callahan was not criticizing the NFL culture. He was demanding that it be acknowledged: NFL locker rooms will not allow an openly gay player, etc., etc. He was arguing draft rank dropping, yes, but also that GMs would just KNOW that being openly gay in the NFL is not tenable. Because "that's the way it is."
 
It's paranoia as prediction, though, and that's where Minihane did well to call him out. Callahan kept going with "they" arguments - they'll be all over him, they'll make it hard for him, blah, blah. 
 
But the question is valid: How will that work? Will they beat him up? Will they hit him harder than they already hit people? Will they headhunt and risk penalties and fines because they really hate the gays? Will they call him epithets that are actually illegal with hate speech laws in place? Maybe, but mostly not, right?
 
Worst of all, though, is the speculation, and everyone is culpable there. That "is he or isn't he" is a legitimate topic of conversation is weak. 
 
 With regard to the bold, what thehell are you talking about? 
 
As for the rest, he's right, it is going to be an issue in the clubhouse I don't think that will keep him from getting drafted but I can see him dropping deep in the draft.  It shouldn't be, but there are a lot of things that shouldn't be an issue today and still are whether you happen to like it or no.
 
 
CantKeepmedown said:
They brought up Buck's name at some point, as an example. Gerry said that you really couldn't use him as an example, because :"everybody loves Buck"  He said that it would have to be somebody like CHB or Borges to make the analogy work.  
 
This is extremely weak on Callahan's part.  Gerry is just a coward that is afraid to say and defend what he has been saying on the radio the last few days to Buck's face.  In short, Fuck Gerry on this, he's using it to spread he homophobic agenda, but at the same time he is right about how this will affect Te'o's draft status.
 

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HomeBrew1901 said:
 With regard to the bold, what thehell are you talking about? 
 
Being on a football team is a job. In the workplace, workers are protected against sexually oriented speech that creates a "hostile or offensive working environment." So, while you can make fun of someone for a lot of things, you can't make fun of them for being gay. And you certainly can't mean spiritedly and constantly rag on someone for being gay in the workplace.
 
Even football teams have HR departments, and I'm sure they would be smart enough to instruct everyone in the organization on the law and the rights held by all of the organization's employees.
 
Sure, it would take brass balls to go to HR with a sexual harassment complaint, but that kind of speech is definitely illegal and I'm sure that drafting an openly gay player would set the HR wheels in motion and everyone would be on their guard for it. If a player got drummed out of the league because players in the locker room were riding him for being gay, he'd have a great case for pocketing millions of dollars in a lawsuit against whatever team drafted him.
 

wutang112878

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MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
 
Sure, it would take brass balls to go to HR with a sexual harassment complaint, but that kind of speech is definitely illegal and I'm sure that drafting an openly gay player would set the HR wheels in motion and everyone would be on their guard for it. If a player got drummed out of the league because players in the locker room were riding him for being gay, he'd have a great case for pocketing millions of dollars in a lawsuit against whatever team drafted him.
 
I agree this needs to be addressed, but isnt this a problem the league should address and not leave to the teams?  Hypothetical, say an openly gay player is drafted by SF, and they setup new HR rules and sensitivity training, basically everything that should be done, and everyone is on board.  Most likely, sadly, there is going to be some trash talk on the field and perhaps public comments from non-teammates about an openly gay player, then the discipline and reaction to the situation would fall to the teams that made the statement?
 
I forget his name, but whatever SF player recently said he wouldnt want a gay teammate, I believe SF was allowed to react to that situation but the league really doesnt have a corporate wide HR policy on the overall situation, and that would be a huge step in the right direction.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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HomeBrew1901 said:
Yeah.  Good luck with that.
 
Also, your last paragraph pretty much sums up why a lot of teams will probably pass on him.
 
To clarify, I don't necessarily think that Callahan is totally wrong that some teams will value Teo less if he's comes out.
 
My problems are:
 
1. There's a difference between saying, "teams are going to devalue him if he comes out as gay - that's sad and pathetic, but it's the neanderthal-like league we have until someone has the balls to change it" and saying, "teams are going to devalue him if he comes out as gay - that's just the way it is! Deal with it!" The latter is Callahan's position, which implicitly acknowledges that it's okay to see gays as less valuable because of their sexual orientation. As in, "football players just don't like gays! Get over it!" That's homophobic and overly cynical to boot.
 
2. I think this rampant speculation about whether Teo specifically is gay is really, really bad, and having whole hypothetical discussions about it really rubs me the wrong way. That's not just on Callahan but on everyone who's decided to make it a "story." He says he's not. Stop talking about whether he is or not until there's some evidence to say he's lying.
 

SidelineCameras

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MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
Being on a football team is a job. In the workplace, workers are protected against sexually oriented speech that creates a "hostile or offensive working environment." So, while you can make fun of someone for a lot of things, you can't make fun of them for being gay. And you certainly can't mean spiritedly and constantly rag on someone for being gay in the workplace.
 
Even football teams have HR departments, and I'm sure they would be smart enough to instruct everyone in the organization on the law and the rights held by all of the organization's employees.
 
Sure, it would take brass balls to go to HR with a sexual harassment complaint, but that kind of speech is definitely illegal and I'm sure that drafting an openly gay player would set the HR wheels in motion and everyone would be on their guard for it. If a player got drummed out of the league because players in the locker room were riding him for being gay, he'd have a great case for pocketing millions of dollars in a lawsuit against whatever team drafted him.
 
Small point of clarification but it does affect your argument enough to bring it up:

In order for something to be illegal in the workplace, a worker needs to belong to a protected class. Race, religion, and gender are all federally protected classes. Even if it creates a hostile work environment, you can't legally argue it's hostile if you're not protected. If my asshole co-worker is a Giants fan and makes my life miserable all day every day talking about Superbowl 42 and 46, I still can't claim that's a hostile work environment because "Patriots fan" is not a protected class.  
 
As of today, sexual orientation is not a federally protected class. It is protected in many states, including Massachusetts, but it's not protected at the federal level, so a homosexual NFL player wouldn't have this protection with every team for which he might play.
 

cornwalls@6

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Apr 23, 2010
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MyDaughterLovesTomGordon said:
To clarify, I don't necessarily think that Callahan is totally wrong that some teams will value Teo less if he's comes out.
 
My problems are:
 
1. There's a difference between saying, "teams are going to devalue him if he comes out as gay - that's sad and pathetic, but it's the neanderthal-like league we have until someone has the balls to change it" and saying, "teams are going to devalue him if he comes out as gay - that's just the way it is! Deal with it!" The latter is Callahan's position, which implicitly acknowledges that it's okay to see gays as less valuable because of their sexual orientation. As in, "football players just don't like gays! Get over it!" That's homophobic and overly cynical to boot.
 
2. I think this rampant speculation about whether Teo specifically is gay is really, really bad, and having whole hypothetical discussions about it really rubs me the wrong way. That's not just on Callahan but on everyone who's decided to make it a "story." He says he's not. Stop talking about whether he is or not until there's some evidence to say he's lying.
 
 
Amen. This entire discussion(not here, where the focus has been the media itself, but on talk radio, etc.) has been more revealing of how far into the abyss of stupid sports-discourse in the media has gone than anything else. And Felger gets no pass from me. His coy,  I'm progressive and enlightened, I don't approve of the way things are, but I'm still going engage in sleazy speculation on the kid's private sexual life, is just a small notch below Callahan on the idiot scale in my view.