Klinsmann's Men: The ÜSMNT Thread - Just get us to Brazil

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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I didn't see enough of Sunderland this year - but WTF happened to Jozy?  He was red-hot for the USMNT, and then terrible at Sunderland.  I know that they sucked for most of the year, and he probably wasn't getting good service - but is there anything more analytic that can be said about his bad year?
 

DJnVa

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OilCanShotTupac said:
I didn't see enough of Sunderland this year - but WTF happened to Jozy?  He was red-hot for the USMNT, and then terrible at Sunderland.  I know that they sucked for most of the year, and he probably wasn't getting good service - but is there anything more analytic that can be said about his bad year?
 
Putting it way too simplistically, I've read that the offense style they played wasn't the best for him. That could be hindsight though.
 
http://thebiglead.com/2014/01/29/jozy-altidore-few-options-for-struggling-american-striker/
 

allaboutthesox

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Titans Bastard said:
Arsenal's Zelalem Nearing U.S. Eligibility
 
 
 
Potentially big news and a pleasant surprise for the US.  Zelalem was called in by Germany for U17 qualifiers very recently, but he pulled out of camp citing the old "club concerns".  I've always viewed Zelalem as a long shot because of his citizenship status, but viewed in context of his pending passport, his withdrawal looks good for the US.
 
Zelalem was born in Germany to Ethiopian parents.  He moved to the DC area at age 9 and played for local clubs in Bethesda and Olney and then at age 16 left for Arsenal's academy.  He made his debut in January in the FA Cup a few days before his 17th birthday.  I think he's a very legitimate prospect, but like all of them he'll have to actually make good on his potential.  US soccer has a weird quirk due to our immigration rules where guys with minimal connections to the US can suit up for the NT (the German-Americans with hit-it-and-quit-it dads), but others like Diego Fagundez who can't play for the US despite basically living in the US for their entire lives.  I'm glad it's working out for Zelalem and hopefully he makes it officially in to the USSF fold soon.
 
Maybe I am wrong, but Fagundez is now a permanent resident in the US and in 5 years (the clock started in 2013) he will be eligible for citizenship as well.  He will be 23 by then and may be eligible to play in the 2018 WC.
 

Titans Bastard

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allaboutthesox said:
 
Maybe I am wrong, but Fagundez is now a permanent resident in the US and in 5 years (the clock started in 2013) he will be eligible for citizenship as well.  He will be 23 by then and may be eligible to play in the 2018 WC.
 
That's true, but if he so much as steps on the field for a Uruguay youth team in an official competition (including youth), he's gone forever.  He's eligible for the 2015 U-20 WC.
 
The problem with long-term-wait guys like Fagundez is that we tend to only get them if they don't turn out to be that amazing.  If Fagundez keeps raising his game, Uruguay is going to come calling.
 

Gunfighter 09

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Titans Bastard said:
 
That's true, but if he so much as steps on the field for a Uruguay youth team in an official competition (including youth), he's gone forever.  He's eligible for the 2015 U-20 WC.
 
The problem with long-term-wait guys like Fagundez is that we tend to only get them if they don't turn out to be that amazing.  If Fagundez keeps raising his game, Uruguay is going to come calling.
 
Is there something I am missing on how Uruguay is such bigger draw than the USMNT that it is a sure thing he will go that way? I am familiar with their rankings this cycle and can see the draw of playing with Suarez and Cavani (when they are 32) but I would think that choice would be a coin flip rather than an automatic lead to a team that is fighting to be #3 in South America. 
 

Titans Bastard

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Gunfighter 09 said:
 
Is there something I am missing on how Uruguay is such bigger draw than the USMNT that it is a sure thing he will go that way? I am familiar with their rankings this cycle and can see the draw of playing with Suarez and Cavani (when they are 32) but I would think that choice would be a coin flip rather than an automatic lead to a team that is fighting to be #3 in South America. 
 
It's not that Uruguay is a much bigger draw than the US for Fagundez; after all, he's spent the vast majority of his life here and has gone on record saying he'd like to play for the US.  The problem is that he's eligible for Uruguay and not for the US right now and it's not going to change any time soon.  If Uruguay started chasing after him and offered him the chance to play in big games and big tournaments, those kinds of opportunities can wear down his patience.
 
Ideally the kid will get married and shave two years off the price, like Portland's Darlington Nagbe.
 
 
EDIT:  Also, Fagundez scored 13 goals as an 18 year old in MLS, which I believe set the record for a teenager in the league.  If Europe comes calling and he moves overseas, that could complicate the naturalization process.
 

soxfan121

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Titans Bastard said:
Ideally the kid will get married and shave two years off the price, like Portland's Darlington Nagbe.
 
Bill Veeck would have this solved with a raffle and a "free giveaway" by the end of the summer.
 

Investor 11

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allaboutthesox said:
Maybe I am wrong, but Fagundez is now a permanent resident in the US and in 5 years (the clock started in 2013) he will be eligible for citizenship as well.  He will be 23 by then and may be eligible to play in the 2018 WC.
Unlikely, but he could trim that wait down to 3 years were he to marry his US citizen girlfriend.
 

page 2 protege

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No Boyd either, understand it was between him and Wondolowski, and while Boyd has been on the hot streak he hasn't produced as much in his limited action for USMNT. I might be in the minority here, but I just like Boyd more.
 
The Donovan thing is shocking on the face of it, but it seems like Jurgen didn't really ever warm to Donovan after he took that time off.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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Donovan lost a step, hasn't been in good form with Galaxy and physically can't handle the two-a-days.  After watching the Inside US Soccer show and Donovan's interview, it seemed the writing was on the wall and Donovan knew it too.
 
Could he have been a valuable sub to come on if the US need a spark?  I think so but Klinsmann thought differently and also made this into a youth movement.  It could pay dividends in 2018 but I hope we don't look back after the group stage and wonder whatif? with Donovan coming on late in a game.
 

Vinho Tinto

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page 2 protege said:
The Donovan thing is shocking on the face of it, but it seems like Jurgen didn't really ever warm to Donovan after he took that time off.
 
Well then fuck Jurgen. Terrible decision. Very annoyed by this.  
 

Merkle's Boner

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Jurgen got balls.  While I don't know half of the guys on the team, I respect Klinsmann and believe that these 23 guys are the right team for us.  
 

Williams Head Case

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I thought it would have been worth it to at least strap Landon's corpse to the bench in a USA kit like he was El Cid for the yay ra ra aspect of the tournament but oh well.
 

OCST

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Wow.  I don't really know what to think.  I haven't seen Donovan play personally since his last USMNT action, but I'm shocked at this.
 

Kliq

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I'm not as familiar with the decision as some of you guys, but this was very puzzling to me. The last time I saw Donovan (the most recent friendly vs Mexico) he, Dempsey and Bradley worked really well together and created a lot of chances in a relatively short time on the field. Is it really worth keeping Landon off to let Julian Green come in for the last 10 minutes of a game because that someone counts as "experience" for 2018? 
 

Billy R Ford

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Cutting Donovan obscures the other terrible calls for this roster.
 
No Parkhurst? Yeah, let's bring 20-year-old Yedlin rather than a guy who can play every position on the backline.
 
John Brooks was terrible in his last match for the US, and he's in over Goodson.
 
They went heavy on youth for this World Cup for the sake of experience, which is stupid. You don't bring prospects to the World Cup for the same reason you don't bring single-A players to the World Series.
 

Kliq

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Anyone possibly think that Klinsmann thought that the US didn't have a great chance of advancing anyways, given their pool, so he decided that this world cup was to build towards the future (like how a last place team plays rookies at the end of the season) and so he made a lot of questionable cuts favoring youth?
 

BigRed07

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If that were the case then I would've brought Boyd over Wondo for sure. Well, I think that should have happened regardless.
 

gaelgirl

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Kliq said:
Anyone possibly think that Klinsmann thought that the US didn't have a great chance of advancing anyways, given their pool, so he decided that this world cup was to build towards the future (like how a last place team plays rookies at the end of the season) and so he made a lot of questionable cuts favoring youth?
It's possible, but you have to play for the here and now. This isn't rookies at the end of the season, this is the playoffs. You put your best team forward on the chance you have to advance. 
 
I don't know enough about the US players to really determine if this is the best team. Hopefully it is. The reaction has not been kind thus far. 
 

cromulence

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I'm pretty stunned, but I'm trying to focus on some of the things I like. I'm glad to see Mix on there, and honestly, Wondo too. He earned it - he's consistently performed when given the chance and does seem to have a knack for putting away chances when he gets them. And I don't hate bringing the youth with Yedlin and Green. But no Donovan....man. I agree that the USMNT miniseries portrays it as an extremely physical camp and Donovan openly admitted that he can't consistently do it anymore - he has good days and bad days. In retrospect, I can see how Klinsmann doesn't think he's worth taking if he's not gonna consistently do what he needs to do.
 
But still. Ugh.
 

ypioca

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Kliq said:
Anyone possibly think that Klinsmann thought that the US didn't have a great chance of advancing anyways, given their pool, so he decided that this world cup was to build towards the future (like how a last place team plays rookies at the end of the season) and so he made a lot of questionable cuts favoring youth?
 
This is one of the worst things I've ever read here.
 
It's the World Cup, not the meaningless end of a season. Every national team on Earth works for over two years to get to the Cup. This is the culmination of that work.
 
Imagine if the 2013 Sox, after securing their place in the playoffs, decided "well, the Rays and Tigers obviously have a better roster, so let's play our farm system guys in October, to get them a taste of the action". Except it's even worse, since the Cup happens every four years.
 

SoxFanInCali

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I didn't think Donovan would be playing as big of a role as in the past, but figured his ability on corners, free kicks, and penalties would justify having him on the pitch.  It's pretty shocking to have him left off entirely.
 

Snakebauer007

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SoxFanInCali said:
I didn't think Donovan would be playing as big of a role as in the past, but figured his ability on corners, free kicks, and penalties would justify having him on the pitch.  It's pretty shocking to have him left off entirely.
If the talent of the depth on the roster had surpassed his abilities it would be one thing, but it hasn't. Not even close.
 

Snakebauer007

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Kliq said:
Anyone possibly think that Klinsmann thought that the US didn't have a great chance of advancing anyways, given their pool, so he decided that this world cup was to build towards the future (like how a last place team plays rookies at the end of the season) and so he made a lot of questionable cuts favoring youth?
No
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Snakebauer007 said:
If the talent of the depth on the roster had surpassed his abilities it would be one thing, but it hasn't. Not even close.
 
This.  A million times this.  The Gold Cup was less than a year ago, and he was transcendent.  He plays best when the lights are brightest.  He has one fewer world cup final goals than Messi, Ronaldo, and Suarez combined.  
 
And there is nobody in this line up that can provide the service that he can.  
 
This is Jurgen in some sort of territorial pissing contest or holding a grudge.  
 

ThePrideofShiner

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
 
This.  A million times this.  The Gold Cup was less than a year ago, and he was transcendent.  He plays best when the lights are brightest.  He has one fewer world cup final goals than Messi, Ronaldo, and Suarez combined.  
 
And there is nobody in this line up that can provide the service that he can.  
 
This is Jurgen in some sort of territorial pissing contest or holding a grudge.  
 
I definitely think it is Jurgen holding a grudge because of Donovan's sabbatical. Otherwise, why would he want to create a major media sideshow that will follow this team until the end of the World Cup?
 

Snakebauer007

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ThePrideofShiner said:
 
I definitely think it is Jurgen holding a grudge because of Donovan's sabbatical. Otherwise, why would he want to create a major media sideshow that will follow this team until the end of the World Cup?
Leaving Donovan off is gonna be such a distraction during the WorldCup, even to ride pine or be a super-sub you bring LD
 

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If you would have told me a few years ago that Beasley would end up being the first American to play in 4 World Cups and not Donovan, I would have thought you were nuts.
 

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BigRed07 said:
Which is especially interesting given Chandler's inclusion (I know, I know, different position).
 
This is the inclusion that really stuns me. He was a disgrace in the heat at Honduras (admittedly a while ago). What will he do in the rainforest of Brazil?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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In reflecting on it, the only way I can see to explain it without actually having been in camp is that Jurgen never got over the sabbatical.  I think this offended him to his core -- I think it just touched off something that is fundamentally inconsistent with Jurgen's philosophy and he could not shake it.  He probably just should have said something then, instead of letting it drag on for a year.  
 

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Snakebauer007 said:
Leaving Donovan off is gonna be such a distraction during the WorldCup, even to ride pine or be a super-sub you bring LD
I disagree, it is a bigger distraction to have your country's former biggest star pouting on the bench than to cut him. The controversy is now, and if they perform poorly then afterwards. If he's on the pine it is an issue before and after every single game and undermines the guys who are playing.
 
Donovan has looked terrible recently, and supposedly been having knee issues (or questionable effort) in training. I don't hate leaving him off, he's nowhere near the player he was.
 
Honestly Parkhurst is a bigger leave off to me.
 
I think with a guy who has Donovan's stature, you basically have to think he can play or leave him home. If Green sits on the bench it isn't a distraction he's an 18 year old. If Donovan does it is an issue both in the media and the locker room.
 

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I am an LA Galaxy fan and live in LA so I have seen Donovan play countless times over the years.  While admittedly, he hasn't been at this sharpest this year (for him anyways), he has more talent in his left leg than someone like Brad Davis has in his entire body. 
 
I am still wrapping my mind around the fact that Klinsmann selected the likes of Davis, Green, Wondolowski or Yedlin over someone who has more World Cup goals than Cristiano Ronaldo (2), Robbie van Persie (2) and Lionel Messi (1) COMBINED. 
 
I simply don't understand it and agree with other posters that it has to be be something else.  I was scouring Twitter for reactions and ran into this tweet by a beat writer for the NY Red Bulls.  I have never heard of anything along these lines so is this guy just making shit up?
 
 
Franco Panizo ‏@FrancoPanizo 2h
No Landon Donovan in #USMNT's final roster for World Cup. Think it's a mistake but source told me not long ago many in team didn't like him.
 
 
https://twitter.com/FrancoPanizo
 

Kliq

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ypioca said:
 
This is one of the worst things I've ever read here.
 
It's the World Cup, not the meaningless end of a season. Every national team on Earth works for over two years to get to the Cup. This is the culmination of that work.
 
Imagine if the 2013 Sox, after securing their place in the playoffs, decided "well, the Rays and Tigers obviously have a better roster, so let's play our farm system guys in October, to get them a taste of the action". Except it's even worse, since the Cup happens every four years.
 
 
I'm not saying that we are tanking the world cup, I'm saying that Klinsmann seeing the draw and looking at his roster, saw an opportunity to build towards the future more so then try and pool together his most veteran team. We can still and try and win, but the reasoning behind keeping Donovan off and Green on could potentially be because Klinsmann has an eye on the future.
 

SoxFanInCali

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If he wasn't going to bring Donovan, why name him to the initial 30 man?  It looks worse to me that he was brought in to camp, then told he's not one of the 23 best.
 
I guess Klinsmann's insistence that Donovan was only being looked at as a forward was more significant than we originally thought.
 

Billy R Ford

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Cellar-Door said:
I disagree, it is a bigger distraction to have your country's former biggest star pouting on the bench than to cut him. The controversy is now, and if they perform poorly then afterwards. If he's on the pine it is an issue before and after every single game and undermines the guys who are playing.
 
He already started him on the bench for the Mexico match and Donovan didn't complain then. Bringing him off the bench for the World Cup would have been justifiable, but cutting him outright in favor of Green and Davis is not.
 
Donovan marches to the beat of his own drum, but he's not a malcontent. I think the Franco Panizo quote references Klinsmann and his staff, not the team, with whom every indication has always shown he is well-liked.
 

Statman

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Why announce the 23 NOW?  The deadline to submit the final roster isn't until June 2, 2014.
 
Why not wait and see how things shake out after the friendlies against Azerbaijan and Turkey?  I just don't get it.