Kobe Killed in Helicopter Crash

Cotillion

lurker
Jun 11, 2019
633
What must be brutal is listening to the media talk about this and it's all about how great he is, how awesome a father figure, how much of a advocate for the woman's game, and if they do mention the sexual assault at all it's terms like being a

"a stain" "a black mark" "for him to overcome" "a complicated life"

His victim was a stain on him. Basically his victim was just another obstacle in his life to overcome through his "mamba mentality" "all out pursuit" "be the best you can".

This is what you will be if you are assaulted. Just another footnote in a more successful man's career. If you dare to come forward, you are one more wall for him to climb over...

Fuck... it's brutal to listen to.
 

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Dope
Jun 27, 2006
20,651
A Scud Away from Hell
I very much want justice. Very much. But I care more about my daughter than I care about justice. I come from a Sicilian family and I'd really really like to handle this old school. If you get my meaning.
Although it can't come close to comparing with your situation, I still think about those older kids at North Andover High who used to bully me with a particular set of racial names. I've fantasized about tracking them down and going "old school" decades after it happened. I'd like to picture them as being at the bottom of the social barrel, barely eking out a life for themselves. The wish for any sort of justice must be a thousand fold for any sexual violence victims & their families.

My shortcoming was to think of Kobe's rape case as happening to someone far away. When it gets even a little closer, like hearing stories from SoSH members, it pulls it much nearer to the center of interest. The context changes and the room for decorum gets smaller and smaller.
 

BaseballJones

goalpost mover
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
10,252
Although it can't come close to comparing with your situation, I still think about those older kids at North Andover High who used to bully me with a particular set of racial names. I've fantasized about tracking them down and going "old school" decades after it happened. I'd like to picture them as being at the bottom of the social barrel, barely eking out a life for themselves. The wish for any sort of justice must be a thousand fold for any sexual violence victims & their families.

My shortcoming was to think of Kobe's rape case as happening to someone far away. When it gets even a little closer, like hearing stories from SoSH members, it pulls it much nearer to the center of interest. The context changes and the room for decorum gets smaller and smaller.
I think that's true in so many things. Like seeing the devastation of war in another country. Ok yeah, it's awful and intellectually we can all understand it. But remember when 9/11 happened? My god I KNEW people in the World Trade Center. I was there helping with the Salvation Army in support of victims and the city just one week after it happened and the ruins were still smoldering and I looked at the rubble from one block away (the closest they'd let us get). It completely alters one's perspective on things when you get an up-close look at it. Whether that's fair or not, it's a pretty normal experience.

Sorry you had to deal with the bullying. It doesn't matter if it's not the same thing as what my or Mooch's daughters have gone through. It's painful in its own right and clearly it's stuck with you for years. And you didn't deserve any of it.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,174
What's really hard is what to do. Daughter has thought about "going public". She's thought about pressing charges. I am ALL IN on whatever she decides to do. But we have talked about how if she "goes public" or presses charges, she's in for a world of pain, a terrible backlash from other people (friends of this kid for example) and lawyers and such. And...is she ready for all that? She loses control of the narrative. Her character will get attacked. It will be brutal.

I very much want justice. Very much. But I care more about my daughter than I care about justice. I come from a Sicilian family and I'd really really like to handle this old school. If you get my meaning.

But Kobe's death has just brought all this rushing right back to the forefront of my mind. Of course I feel awful for his family. I cannot imagine what they're going through. Losing him and especially his daughter. Unfathomable. Nothing but total sympathy for them. But the Kobe rape case is a glaring example of why it's so difficult for my daughter to seek and get justice. Which makes this so complicated for me. Like I said...I'm not even sure I should mention this part of his life to her.
One of the benefits of filing charges is that it opens up avenues to victims counseling she might not otherwise have. I know this because my gay teenage daughter had to thwart a sexual assault by a female friend. We weren’t going to press charges until we found out the other girl was claiming my daughter had raped her in texts to others that were forwarded to her. She has been seeing a rape crisis counselor since it happened.

im so sorry to see what you and your daughter are going through.
 

scott bankheadcase

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 1, 2006
1,096
hoboken
Although it can't come close to comparing with your situation, I still think about those older kids at North Andover High who used to bully me with a particular set of racial names. I've fantasized about tracking them down and going "old school" decades after it happened. I'd like to picture them as being at the bottom of the social barrel, barely eking out a life for themselves. The wish for any sort of justice must be a thousand fold for any sexual violence victims & their families.

My shortcoming was to think of Kobe's rape case as happening to someone far away. When it gets even a little closer, like hearing stories from SoSH members, it pulls it much nearer to the center of interest. The context changes and the room for decorum gets smaller and smaller.
Your last paragraph is so very true. I have basically no IRL connection to most people on this site, but over years of reading Luckysox and RedKluz and others talk, often openly, about this, has impacted me deeply as a person.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
25,647
Hingham, MA
No idea how to read that secret or semi secret forum.
I know this rings hollow but I want to apologize for my comments yesterday.

This is absolutely no excuse but I found out the Kobe news getting on a plane (literally sitting at gate E5 at MSP), had a very rough flight, and had just walked in to see my kids before I fired up the thread. My head was all fucked up. I literally cried when I saw them. I didn’t know that ERW had been the victim of sexual assault (NOT that is matters at all in the grand scheme....even if she hadn't been I was still wrong). That being said, none of that excuses my rapid fire responding without context, information, or frankly, the authority to even do so. All told, I just was way the fuck out of my depth and my comments do not reflect the person I am, or I believe the reputation I have built here. I've been here 16 years and this is not the type of behavior I condone nor want to be remembered for.

I’ll be taking a self imposed break for a while because I think with one completely stupid line of thought ive really done a lot of damage to my standing. I full concede that my comments were 100% wrong. I’d would have apologized in thread but I understand the justified thread ban, and it was suggested by a Dope that if I wanted to I do it here, which I think makes sense. I sincerely apologize.

- J
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,742
St. Louis, MO
In professional life I’m a media broker and I have a couple of vendors in China, one of which emailed me overnight saying how devastated the entire country is and that Kobe was the most popular global athlete ever there. Said Mamba was their “spiritual idol.” Just thought it was interesting to add just how global basketball is; they may have never heard of Mike Trout for example.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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1) Basketballjones, I'm really sorry to hear about what your daughter is having to endure and go through. Marciano posted something last night about how none of the metoo revelations are not that surprising. I was living under a rock. I was genuinely surprised about Matt Lauer, Louis C.K., others. It is clear to me that I am only starting to get the sense about how common this all is. It's pervasive. Reading the Evan Rachel Wood twitter feed yesterday and it's hardly fucking surprising that it just goes on and on.

2) About redemption. Mrs. DDB asked me today whether I think a person can make amends for doing something horrible one time. I do believe in redemption and second chances. But for something like rape? Well, you need a life of good works just to try to get back to something approximating even, if that. You don't get to be glorified like a saint or have your number retired. You work your ass off just to rejoin the ranks of normal human being, if that. And it's not a zero sum game. None of it changes that you did something really fucking awful. It's two tracks. One one, you did something horrible that you own forever. On another, you did something good.

3) The way we talk about all of this sucks. I just re-read number 2 above and it's his fucking story. It's always the man's story. It's never her story.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
25,647
Hingham, MA
1) Basketballjones, I'm really sorry to hear about what your daughter is having to endure and go through. Marciano posted something last night about how none of the metoo revelations are not that surprising. I was living under a rock. I was genuinely surprised about Matt Lauer, Louis C.K., others. It is clear to me that I am only starting to get the sense about how common this all is. It's pervasive. Reading the Evan Rachel Wood twitter feed yesterday and it's hardly fucking surprising that it just goes on and on.

2) About redemption. Mrs. DDB asked me today whether I think a person can make amends for doing something horrible one time. I do believe in redemption and second chances. But for something like rape? Well, you need a life of good works just to try to get back to something approximating even, if that. You don't get to be glorified like a saint or have your number retired. You work your ass off just to rejoin the ranks of normal human being, if that. And it's not a zero sum game. None of it changes that you did something really fucking awful. It's two tracks. One one, you did something horrible that you own forever. On another, you did something good.

3) The way we talk about all of this sucks. I just re-read number 2 above and it's his fucking story. It's always the man's story. It's never her story.
I really like the way you articulate the two paths. I will be using this.
 

amh03

Tippi Hedren
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 27, 2003
5,987
What's really hard is what to do. Daughter has thought about "going public". She's thought about pressing charges. I am ALL IN on whatever she decides to do. But we have talked about how if she "goes public" or presses charges, she's in for a world of pain, a terrible backlash from other people (friends of this kid for example) and lawyers and such. And...is she ready for all that? She loses control of the narrative. Her character will get attacked. It will be brutal.

I very much want justice. Very much. But I care more about my daughter than I care about justice. I come from a Sicilian family and I'd really really like to handle this old school. If you get my meaning.

But Kobe's death has just brought all this rushing right back to the forefront of my mind. Of course I feel awful for his family. I cannot imagine what they're going through. Losing him and especially his daughter. Unfathomable. Nothing but total sympathy for them. But the Kobe rape case is a glaring example of why it's so difficult for my daughter to seek and get justice. Which makes this so complicated for me. Like I said...I'm not even sure I should mention this part of his life to her.
So very sorry to read about your daughter's experience, @BaseballJones and that of @Mooch's daughter. Truly - thoughts go out to you & your families as you deal with these situations.

I'd also just like to point out that the decision process on whether to press charges that @BaseballJones' daughter is dealing with is a direct example of what @luckysox was saying about how the self-reporting of rapes changed after seeing what happened to the 19-year old in Bryant's case. It had an impact...a lasting impact. It was certainly not the only case that expanded the fears amongst women who were afraid they wouldn't be believed, or were concerned that it would somehow label them. But it was a very public example and one that many saw. It had a ripple effect.
 
Last edited:

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
47,806
1) Basketballjones, I'm really sorry to hear about what your daughter is having to endure and go through. Marciano posted something last night about how none of the metoo revelations are not that surprising. I was living under a rock. I was genuinely surprised about Matt Lauer, Louis C.K., others. It is clear to me that I am only starting to get the sense about how common this all is. It's pervasive. Reading the Evan Rachel Wood twitter feed yesterday and it's hardly fucking surprising that it just goes on and on.

2) About redemption. Mrs. DDB asked me today whether I think a person can make amends for doing something horrible one time. I do believe in redemption and second chances. But for something like rape? Well, you need a life of good works just to try to get back to something approximating even, if that. You don't get to be glorified like a saint or have your number retired. You work your ass off just to rejoin the ranks of normal human being, if that. And it's not a zero sum game. None of it changes that you did something really fucking awful. It's two tracks. One one, you did something horrible that you own forever. On another, you did something good.

3) The way we talk about all of this sucks. I just re-read number 2 above and it's his fucking story. It's always the man's story. It's never her story.
I think it came up a little while ago about Aroldis Chapman, or some other perpetrator of domestic violence, and my take was redemption is certainly possible, but make amends in the area where you hurt people.

If you commit rape or domestic violence and then raise money and advocate for childhood cancers, that’s great. It’s a societal benefit. It’s a good thing. But, it’s not redemptive in my eyes.

Kobe could have done a lot of good speaking to young men about the important of consent and to young women about their worthiness and ability to say no. He could’ve donated money to survivors’ charities. He could’ve gone on TV and explained what he learned from that night in a way that started important national dialogues and made him a symbol for people respecting and understanding consent.

Instead, he died as just another guy who was able to rape someone and get right back to his life because he had money and skill.
 

edoug

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
3,575
To Mooch, his daughter, and family
To BaseballJones, his daughter, and family
To luckysox and family
I know it isn't much but I offer you my respect and support. And wish for you more happy thoughts than dark.
 

SemperFidelisSox

suzyn
SoSH Member
May 25, 2008
21,269
Boston, MA
Let’s not forget where the whole ‘Mamba’ idea came from. It was part of Kobe’s rehabilitation of his public image and ad campaign with NIKE. It was him embracing the black hat villain role post-rape trial. The whole idea of Mamba boiled down too “I don’t give a fuck anymore, hate me”. Over time, the media and fans twisted it to describe Bryant’s work ethic and competitiveness, thus the “Mamba mentality”. The fact that it became a nickname and name of his girls basketball academy is just sick.
 

Ale Xander

Lacks black ink
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
33,140
The non-Kobe people killed in the crash were:

Gianna Bryant, 13 year old basketball star
Ara Zobayan, pilot. Instrument rated, and "qualified to fly in fog"
Payton Chester, a middle school student and teenage basketball star
Sarah Chester, Payton's mother
John Altobelli, baseball coach
Alyssa Altobelli, a middle school student and teenage basketball star
Keri Altobelli, Alyssa's mother and John's wife
Christina Mauser, assistant coach on Gianna's, Payton's, and Alyssa's team

-------

Can we edit the title to something like: "9 people die in helicopter crash, including Gianna and Kobe Bryant?"
Just a thought.
 
Feb 19, 2015
3,442
The non-Kobe people killed in the crash were:

Gianna Bryant, 13 year old basketball star
Ara Zobayan, pilot. Instrument rated, and "qualified to fly in fog"
Payton Chester, a middle school student and teenage basketball star
Sarah Chester, Payton's mother
John Altobelli, baseball coach
Alyssa Altobelli, a middle school student and teenage basketball star
Keri Altobelli, Alyssa's mother and John's wife

Christina Mauser, assistant coach on Gianna's, Payton's, and Alyssa's team

-------

Can we edit the title to something like: "9 people die in helicopter crash, including Gianna and Kobe Bryant?"
Just a thought.
Dad, mom, and daughter. That's just absolutely horrible for the surviving members of the family.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
25,647
Hingham, MA
She wasn't suspended for that, she was suspended because she posted a picture of her work email inbox revealing the full names of people emailing her.
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
33,283
Dad, mom, and daughter. That's just absolutely horrible for the surviving members of the family.
From what I can tell, the only surviving members of their immediate family is a junior daughter in high school that lost both her parents and her sister, as well as the Red Sox scout, JJ Altobelli, who is obviously older than his high school aged sister. Just absolutely devastating.
 

BoSox Rule

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,174
From what I can tell, the only surviving members of their immediate family is a junior daughter in high school that lost both her parents and her sister, as well as the Red Sox scout, JJ Altobelli, who is obviously older than his high school aged sister. Just absolutely devastating.
Isn’t their son a Red Sox scout?
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
33,283
Isn’t their son a Red Sox scout?
Yep, although he's around 30 years old now, and his sisters were 17 and 13. The 17 year old, presumably, is the only one in the Los Angeles area now. Just truly heartbreaking what that poor kid is going through today.
 

BoSox Rule

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,174
Yep, although he's around 30 years old now, and his sisters were 17 and 13. The 17 year old, presumably, is the only one in the Los Angeles area now. Just truly heartbreaking what that poor kid is going through today.
Did you edit that in? I didn’t think I missed that in your original post.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
42,306

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
17,883
Wasn't the suspension because she posted screenshot of her work email inbox which is against their policies?
I see that report.

I also see this:


"Her bosses disagreed and suspended her. Tracy Grant, the managing editor of the Washington Post, said: “National political reporter Felicia Sonmez was placed on administrative leave while the Post reviews whether tweets about the death of Kobe Bryant violated the Post newsroom’s social media policy. The tweets displayed poor judgment that undermined the work of her colleagues.”"
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
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Jul 31, 2005
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I think it came up a little while ago about Aroldis Chapman, or some other perpetrator of domestic violence, and my take was redemption is certainly possible, but make amends in the area where you hurt people.

If you commit rape or domestic violence and then raise money and advocate for childhood cancers, that’s great. It’s a societal benefit. It’s a good thing. But, it’s not redemptive in my eyes.

Kobe could have done a lot of good speaking to young men about the important of consent and to young women about their worthiness and ability to say no. He could’ve donated money to survivors’ charities. He could’ve gone on TV and explained what he learned from that night in a way that started important national dialogues and made him a symbol for people respecting and understanding consent.

Instead, he died as just another guy who was able to rape someone and get right back to his life because he had money and skill.
Your describing what Bryant did after he dropped a gay slur on a ref (you mentioned it earlier):

In other areas of Bryant’s life, he showed a willingness to own up to and correct mistakes from the past. After being fined $100,000 for directing a gay slur at an official during a game in 2011, Bryant worked with GLAAD to film PSAs and enhance his own understanding of LGBT issues. Two years later, Bryant took to Twitter to scold a fan for using the word “gay” as an insult, copping to his prior ignorance

 

fletcherpost

sosh's feckin' poet laureate
Lifetime Member
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Jul 15, 2005
9,934
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2) About redemption. Mrs. DDB asked me today whether I think a person can make amends for doing something horrible one time. I do believe in redemption and second chances. But for something like rape? Well, you need a life of good works just to try to get back to something approximating even, if that. You don't get to be glorified like a saint or have your number retired. You work your ass off just to rejoin the ranks of normal human being, if that. And it's not a zero sum game. None of it changes that you did something really fucking awful. It's two tracks. One one, you did something horrible that you own forever. On another, you did something good.
I think it's hard to truly be redeemed if the sinner is not suitably punished for their sins. Most humans have an idea of crime and punishment that is pretty simple. You do the crime, you do the time...and then we talk. If we think a person has not done the time, but we think they did the crime...we won't be able to accept that the 'sinner' is redeemed or on the road to redemption. There's something of the zero sum in this.

The big problem with me seeing Kobe's life in terms of a redemption arc is he did no time. The privileged have access to better legal defence, public relations teams and the support of those they help feed - not just their family, i mean the industry/profession they are part of and the industries that feed off their labour, high profile and brand. The last thing they want is for a cash cow to go down.

Kobe didn't get convicted, he didn't stand trial - so he had no time to do. So in the binary zero sum the redemption we here do not grant him is because we here read, we delve and we require more information before we make out judgements. We apply more scrutiny than the average person who is perhaps not so drawn towards finding, or getting as close as possible to the (often elusive) truth of a situation. And, it is a sad mark of our times that we move on fast to the next thing, the next sound bite or narrative or scandal...we get swept along going from one story to the next, most of the time never really knowing the truth, but knowing enough to feel invested, opinionated...until the next thing and so it goes.

There are more column inches of late devoted to Harry and Meghan than there has been to Prince Andrew. It recently came out that the Palace has refused to allow details of the whereabouts of Andrew's security staff on the night it is alleged he was having sex with a teenager, he said he was at Pizza Express in Woking. (Think Olive Garden but with pizza and cheaper. Exactly.) So far no one has corroborated his story. Guess what...more people are concerned with Harry and Meghan turning their back on Englandshire, cos that's the splash. Or it was, we moved on.

We say Kobe rapist. I say Kobe rapist. The law and his record says otherwise. We say he admitted it, but we read his attorney's statement, and we know that his words are not a bona fide admission of guilt. They are the words of a man filtered through a highly paid legal team, who knew he'd not be facing trial. It's PR. (Kevin Spacey made a statement a couple of years ago that was similar in tone.) The vast majority, the great general public, helped along by the media and the court of public opinion that is driven by the media, say he's not a rapist, or nothing at all other than legend, great sportsman, pillar of the community...as such no redemption is required (for them). But that doesn't work for us...at least not for me.
 

McBride11

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Jul 15, 2005
15,710
Charleston, SC
Can some of the more knowledgeable helicopter people (@Gunfighter 09 @barbed wire Bob ) expand upon 'cleared to fly in fog.' I get what instrument rating is (my brother has an IFR plane license), but for helicopters, that are presumably flying lower, is there an instrument in private aircraft that allows them to see mountains/ buildings / terrain in front of them? How would a pilot be able to recognize there is something possibly to fly into in a foggy environment?
 

reggiecleveland

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She wasn't suspended for that, she was suspended because she posted a picture of her work email inbox revealing the full names of people emailing her.
And what I understand has been warned about writing about allegations as if they were proven fact, and about making disagreements with other writers personal, attempting to get other writers fired, etc.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
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Sep 27, 2016
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In professional life I’m a media broker and I have a couple of vendors in China, one of which emailed me overnight saying how devastated the entire country is and that Kobe was the most popular global athlete ever there. Said Mamba was their “spiritual idol.” Just thought it was interesting to add just how global basketball is; they may have never heard of Mike Trout for example.
Basketball is the 3rd most popular sport in the world, taking into account a variety of factors. A factor of 4-5 times more popular than baseball, though that's partly due to bat-and-ball sports being split between cricket and baseball. You'll note that the area with the highest number of basketball fans as a % of population, after the US and Canada, is China (and after that, the Philippines). American Football and Rugby are way down the list. And a lot of the difference between them, and baseball, and where basketball is today, is down to David Stern's decades-long selling efforts to get the NBA in front of the eyeballs of global audiences, cooperating on international basketball with FIBA and the Olympics, and just taking the long view about promoting the sport, even if it doesn't squeeze every dime for their own controlled enterprises. That, moreso than maybe even the labor stoppages, is my biggest gripe with the Bud Selig era, because if it helped baseball but didn't help MLB that much, he didn't give the slightest crap about it. He just flat-out missed the boat and set baseball back a generation in terms of global appeal.

(This analysis ranked basketball 2nd, though I find that more of a ripoff of the former than a truly independent study.)
 

Gunfighter 09

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Jul 31, 2005
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Can some of the more knowledgeable helicopter people (@Gunfighter 09 @barbed wire Bob ) expand upon 'cleared to fly in fog.' I get what instrument rating is (my brother has an IFR plane license), but for helicopters, that are presumably flying lower, is there an instrument in private aircraft that allows them to see mountains/ buildings / terrain in front of them? How would a pilot be able to recognize there is something possibly to fly into in a foggy environment?

They were given a "special VFR" clearance through Burbank's Class C airspace. I've flown that route many times, once or twice with a special VFR clearance. What that means, is that Burbank was under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR) due to the weather (typically used when there is less than 3 miles visibility and the cloud ceilings are less than 1000 or 2000 feet above ground level), meaning they were only allowing aircraft flying on instruments, conducting instrument approach and departure procedures, into their airspace. in IFR conditions air traffic controllers are accepting responsibility for terrain and obstacle clearance for the aircraft, who are required to do exactly what the controllers, or instrument procedure, tell them to do.

When the weather is marginal, helicopters will occasionally be allowed to operate in what is called "special VFR" rules, typically to land at an airport without flying the published procedures, or to transit an airfield's airspace. This type of transit is what Bryant's aircraft was doing yesterday morning. The tower controller at Burbank cleared them into their airspace, despite the weather, under the restriction that they follow the 5 and then 118 freeways from the Southeast to the northwest. They were then handed off to Van Nuys tower for another Special VFR clearance. This is not an unusual clearance or procedures for helicopters in the LA basin, but it is also a high workload and difficult flying environment due to both the high amount of helicopters traffic in the LA basin and the terrain all around the San Fernando Valley area where they were flying. Of note, Special VFR aircraft must maintain clear of clouds during their special VFR operations and obey the tower controller's instructions when they are inside controlled airspace.

From initial reports, it seems that Bryant's pilot did not properly program the prescribed code into the aircraft's transponder that would have allowed the tower controllers to more accurately track their flight path. We'll know if this reporting is accurate when the mishap reports come out, but I don't think it was a factor during the aircraft's transit of Burbank and Van Nuy's airspace. They were right over the freeways, which is where helicopters fly in the LA basin, the tower controllers knew where they were, so there was little risk of mid air collision. The question is what happened after they left Van Nuy's airspace to the southwest near Calabassas. That is where the bad transponder code might matter, because they could have received traffic or terrain clearance advice from the air traffic controllers if they could see their Sqwak (transponder code).


Of note, there are helicopter exceptions to special VFR regulations and to instrument approach procedure minimums, but as I was taught in flight school, the helo minimums and special exceptions are often just a license to kill yourself.


Here is the FAA's published definition of Special VFR:

  1. Special VFR Clearances
    1. An ATC clearance must be obtained priorto operating within a Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E surface area when the weather is less than that required for VFR flight. A VFR pilot may request and be given a clearance to enter, leave, or operate within most Class D and Class E surface areas and some Class B and Class C surface areas in special VFR conditions, traffic permitting, and providing such flight will not delay IFR operations. All special VFR flights must remain clear of clouds. The visibility requirements for special VFR aircraft (other than helicopters) are:
      1. At least 1 statute mile flight visibility for operations within Class B, Class C, Class D, and Class E surface areas.
      2. At least 1 statute mile ground visibility if taking off or landing. If ground visibility is not reported at that airport, the flight visibility must be at least 1 statute mile.
      3. The restrictions in subparagraphs 1 and 2 do not apply to helicopters. Helicopters must remain clear of clouds and may operate in Class B, Class C, Class D, and Class E surface areas with less than 1 statute mile visibility.
    2. When a control tower is located within the Class B, Class C, or Class D surface area, requests for clearances should be to the tower. In a Class E surface area, a clearance may be obtained from the nearest tower, FSS, or center.
    3. It is not necessary to file a complete flight plan with the request for clearance, but pilots should state their intentions in sufficient detail to permit ATC to fit their flight into the traffic flow. The clearance will not contain a specific altitude as the pilot must remain clear of clouds. The controller may require the pilot to fly at or below a certain altitude due to other traffic, but the altitude specified will permit flight at or above the minimum safe altitude. In addition, at radar locations, flights may be vectored if necessary for control purposes or on pilot request.
      NOTE-
      The pilot is responsible for obstacle or terrain clearance.
      REFERENCE-
      14 CFR Section 91.119, Minimum safe altitudes: General.
    4. Special VFR clearances are effective within Class B, Class C, Class D, and Class E surface areas only. ATC does not provide separation after an aircraft leaves the Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E surface area on a special VFR clearance.
    5. Special VFR operations by fixed-wing aircraft are prohibited in some Class B and Class C surface areas due to the volume of IFR traffic. A list of these Class B and Class C surface areas is contained in 14 CFR Part 91, Appendix D, Section 3. They are also depicted on sectional aeronautical charts.
    6. ATC provides separation between Special VFR flights and between these flights and other IFR flights.
    7. Special VFR operations by fixed-wing aircraft are prohibited between sunset and sunrise unless the pilot is instrument rated and the aircraft is equipped for IFR flight.
    8. Pilots arriving or departing an uncontrolled airport that has automated weather broadcast capability (ASOS/AWOS) should monitor the broadcast frequency, advise the controller that they have the “one-minute weather” and state intentions prior to operating within the Class B, Class C, Class D, or Class E surface areas.
      REFERENCE-
      Pilot/Controller Glossary Term- One-minute Weather.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
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Mar 5, 2004
22,154
Saskatoon Canada
This was removed for the article later. I am on my phone but she went after Caitlin Flanagan directly emailing complaints to CF's employer, and shared the email herself. I expect they probably want her to avoid getting into a battle defending herself, when it will get twisted.

View: https://twitter.com/CaitlinPacific/status/1168918274295377922

Kind of long, didn't read it all, but seems she went off a bit on Flanagan after being criticized.
View: https://twitter.com/feliciasonmez/status/1179375841471553537?lang=en


View: https://twitter.com/CHSommers/status/1221858577708658688?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
SoSH Member
From initial reports, it seems that Bryant's pilot did not properly program the prescribed code into the aircraft's transponder that would have allowed the tower controllers to more accurately track their flight path. We'll know if this reporting is accurate when the mishap reports come out, but I don't think it was a factor during the aircraft's transit of Burbank and Van Nuy's airspace. They were right over the freeways, which is where helicopters fly in the LA basin, the tower controllers knew where they were, so there was little risk of mid air collision. The question is what happened after they left Van Nuy's airspace to the southwest near Calabassas. That is where the bad transponder code might matter, because they could have received traffic or terrain clearance advice from the air traffic controllers if they could see their Sqwak (transponder code).
Fwiw, the communications between the helicopter and ATC can be heard at the following link
View: https://youtu.be/STsSAFvfNHI

According to the recording, he was instructed to contact Socal (I assume) approach for flight following upon leaving Van Nuys airspace. We can’t hear him talking to Socal but we can hear Socal talking to him. Socal said he was squawking a 1200 code and was too low level for flight following at the time. So it wasn’t just a bad transmitter, apparently radar couldn’t pick him up because he was too low and masked by the terrain.

Fake edit: I forgot that ADS-B is now required. So ATC should have been able to see him regardless of the terrain. Is that in reference to the bad transponder code you were talking about?
 

AB in DC

OG Football Writing
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Jul 10, 2002
7,778
Springfield, VA
This was removed for the article later. I am on my phone but she went after Caitlin Flanagan directly emailing complaints to CF's employer, and shared the email herself.
OK but that was all many months ago, so I'm not getting where that's related to the suspension. Unless you're saying there was some agreement with the WP hierarchy from those previous incidents that she broke
 

Gunfighter 09

wants to be caribou ken
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Dope
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Jul 31, 2005
7,894
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Fwiw, the communications between the helicopter and ATC can be heard at the following link
View: https://youtu.be/STsSAFvfNHI

According to the recording, he was instructed to contact Socal (I assume) approach for flight following upon leaving Van Nuys airspace. We can’t hear him talking to Socal but we can hear Socal talking to him. Socal said he was squawking a 1200 code and was too low level for flight following at the time. So it wasn’t just a bad transmitter, apparently radar couldn’t pick him up because he was too low and masked by the terrain.

Fake edit: I forgot that ADS-B is now required. So ATC should have been able to see him regardless of the terrain. Is that in reference to the bad transponder code you were talking about?
Burbank gave him a sqwak code, probably when he was in holding. When they handed him over to Van Nuys at the 2:24 mark of your clip, the Tower tells him to remain that squawk code. I believe he called out his sqwak when he was talking to Van Nuys, check the screen capture I attached. I think that’s the 0235 he’s referencing.

the tape is a bit confusing concerning the VFR sqwak. I’ve read on multiple pilot forums and pilot twitter that he was sqwaking VFR (1200) when he should have been on an assigned code , but in the tape it sounds like SoCal is telling him that he is following VFR traffic, or the SoCal controller kind of jumbled flight following into the sentence, I don’t know.
 

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reggiecleveland

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Mar 5, 2004
22,154
Saskatoon Canada
OK but that was all many months ago, so I'm not getting where that's related to the suspension. Unless you're saying there was some agreement with the WP hierarchy from those previous incidents that she broke
Just speculation that she didn't cover herself in glory in her last twitter fight, and that the idea she was tweeting about personal attacks made them think it was a PR hit they didn't want.
 

barbed wire Bob

crippled by fear
SoSH Member
Burbank gave him a sqwak code, probably when he was in holding. When they handed him over to Van Nuys at the 2:24 mark of your clip, the Tower tells him to remain that squawk code. I believe he called out his sqwak when he was talking to Van Nuys, check the screen capture I attached. I think that’s the 0235 he’s referencing.

the tape is a bit confusing concerning the VFR sqwak. I’ve read on multiple pilot forums and pilot twitter that he was sqwaking VFR (1200) when he should have been on an assigned code , but in the tape it sounds like SoCal is telling him that he is following VFR traffic, or the SoCal controller kind of jumbled flight following into the sentence, I don’t know.
Thanks for your input. The tape is confusing because I got the impression that Van Nuys told him to get a new squawk code from Socal approach. Up until that point it seemed like a normal flight but afterwards it got confusing.