Kyrie Irving traded to Celtics for IT, Crowder, Zizic, BKN 1st, 2020 2nd

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Eddie Jurak

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The thing is that no matter what you think of Irving's defense, Boston no longer has to build an entire defensive scheme around unsuccessfully hiding the point guard.
Yeah. Rewatch the second half of game 7 against the Wizards to see Brad try to coach around IT's defensive limitations. (Ultimately, Brad turned a losing situation around by removing IT until Washington went to its bench.)
 

DavidTai

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Morris ($5M) + Zizic ($1.65M) + IT ($6.26M) gets them to $13.91M, which is within $5M of Kyrie ($18.87M). (Kyrie's contract escalates, though, so if the matching is based AAV, maybe they come up just short).

Edit: d'oh, I can't do addition: $12.91M. So they'd have to kick in another cheap contract, as mcpickl notes. Still think Cleveland wasn't gonna walk away over Crowder v. Morris and extra guaranteed contract, but who knows.
Did you factor in the salary cap penalties -for- Cleveland in your calculations?

From http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/06/cavaliers_luxury_tax_kyle_korv.html :

For every dollar Gilbert spends above the $128 million he's already committed to for next season, he's going pay roughly $3.88 in taxes -- until the payroll hits $139 million. Every dollar above $139 million will cost Gilbert $4.75 in taxes (which increases by 50 cents every $5 million).
Because the extra contract is guaranteed, that's not gonna be as easy as just cutting it. And at this point, the contract would roughly almost four or five times what it looks like on the cap level.
 

JakeRae

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????? Marcus Morris' standing reach is about 8'9; Jae's is 8'4. It's actually one of Jae's biggest negatives, and makes it very hard to credibly play him at the 4.

I know RPM likes Crowder more than MM, but given the team's construction, they may have preferred to keep the latter.
The more logical explanation is that they viewed the difference between Crowder and Morris AND Rozier, plus the risk of waiting, to not be worth it. Or, that Cleveland actually placed significant value on Crowder and had little interest in swapping him for a significantly inferior player.

In a vacuum, Crowder is easily more valuable than Rozier and Morris, bu
Did you factor in the salary cap penalties -for- Cleveland in your calculations?

From http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/06/cavaliers_luxury_tax_kyle_korv.html :



Because the extra contract is guaranteed, that's not gonna be as easy as just cutting it. And at this point, the contract would roughly almost four or five times what it looks like on the cap level.
The difference between Morris+Rozier v. Jae on the salary cap is about $200,000. So, the swap would've cost Cleveland about $1 million from a bottom line standpoint of you assume they couldn't trade away a minimum salary player for a future 2nd to clear space. If you make that latter assumption, it would save them a significant amount more. Thinking in terms of roster spots doesn't really make sense since they could easily offload a player. The problem is that Crowder is a lot better than Morris and, possibly from the Celtics perspective, adding another rotation player to the deal might have been too great a blow to their depth. It's also possible Danny was pushing this, thus the Larkin signing as a possible replacement for Rozier but Cleveland drew a line in the sand. About the only thing about these details I can say with confidence is that the deal breaker was definitely not adding a 16th guaranteed contract.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Did you factor in the salary cap penalties -for- Cleveland in your calculations?

From http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/06/cavaliers_luxury_tax_kyle_korv.html :

Because the extra contract is guaranteed, that's not gonna be as easy as just cutting it. And at this point, the contract would roughly almost four or five times what it looks like on the cap level.
Yeah, that's an important factor too, one I considered. My main point is that all the things about the trade that would hurt or annoy Cleveland — forcing them further into luxury tax, forcing them to take on another guaranteed contract, giving them the redundant Morris instead of the highly useful Crowder, etc. — are huge plusses for Boston ... right up to the point where they would make Cleveland say no. And my sense is that IT plus BKN 2018 plus Zizic is enough better than any of Cleveland's other (reported) offers that they were going to take the deal regardless, but I could definitely be wrong about that part.
 

nighthob

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The more logical explanation is that they viewed the difference between Crowder and Morris AND Rozier, plus the risk of waiting, to not be worth it. Or, that Cleveland actually placed significant value on Crowder and had little interest in swapping him for a significantly inferior player.
Do you know what might be even more logical? Given the efforts that Boston has put into getting longer everywhere on the roster they just might have valued the much longer Morris over Crowder, especially at the open spot on the floor is the power 3 spot, where the length challenged Crowder is at a real disadvantage.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Yeah, that's an important factor too, one I considered. My main point is that all the things about the trade that would hurt or annoy Cleveland — forcing them further into luxury tax, forcing them to take on another guaranteed contract, giving them the redundant Morris instead of the highly useful Crowder, etc. — are huge plusses for Boston ... right up to the point where they would make Cleveland say no. And my sense is that IT plus BKN 2018 plus Zizic is enough better than any of Cleveland's other (reported) offers that they were going to take the deal regardless, but I could definitely be wrong about that part.
How would they do that when the salaries wouldn't match up?
 

JakeRae

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Do you know what might be even more logical? Given the efforts that Boston has put into getting longer everywhere on the roster they just might have valued the much longer Morris over Crowder, especially at the open spot on the floor is the power 3 spot, where the length challenged Crowder is at a real disadvantage.
Sure, if you think Boston values a few inches of height more than all of: scoring efficiency, scoring volume, rebounding ability, passing ability (as measured by assist %), defensive ability (Jae is better at generating steals, equivalent at blocks, and rates higher by DRPM, DBPM, and scouting). Jae is, across the board, a superior player to Morris and in several categories, like scoring efficiency, they aren't remotely close.
 

mcpickl

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The more logical explanation is that they viewed the difference between Crowder and Morris AND Rozier, plus the risk of waiting, to not be worth it. Or, that Cleveland actually placed significant value on Crowder and had little interest in swapping him for a significantly inferior player.

In a vacuum, Crowder is easily more valuable than Rozier and Morris, bu

The difference between Morris+Rozier v. Jae on the salary cap is about $200,000. So, the swap would've cost Cleveland about $1 million from a bottom line standpoint of you assume they couldn't trade away a minimum salary player for a future 2nd to clear space. If you make that latter assumption, it would save them a significant amount more. Thinking in terms of roster spots doesn't really make sense since they could easily offload a player. The problem is that Crowder is a lot better than Morris and, possibly from the Celtics perspective, adding another rotation player to the deal might have been too great a blow to their depth. It's also possible Danny was pushing this, thus the Larkin signing as a possible replacement for Rozier but Cleveland drew a line in the sand. About the only thing about these details I can say with confidence is that the deal breaker was definitely not adding a 16th guaranteed contract.
Alas, this is what I thought about Demetrius Jackson.

Eh, they can just give him away. It rarely happens, pretty much every team has their own minimum salary guys they like as much as the ones you're trying to dump.

Not a deal breaker, but I'd bet something they'd like to avoid. Owners don't like setting money on fire if they don't have to,
 

mcpickl

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Yeah, that's an important factor too, one I considered. My main point is that all the things about the trade that would hurt or annoy Cleveland — forcing them further into luxury tax, forcing them to take on another guaranteed contract, giving them the redundant Morris instead of the highly useful Crowder, etc. — are huge plusses for Boston ... right up to the point where they would make Cleveland say no. And my sense is that IT plus BKN 2018 plus Zizic is enough better than any of Cleveland's other (reported) offers that they were going to take the deal regardless, but I could definitely be wrong about that part.
But if you think Cleveland wouldn't stand fast on needing Crowder over Morris/Rozier because it's not a big difference, why do you think Boston should've stood fast on the reverse?

Ainge seems to be a pretty hard negotiator. Seems unlikely that Cleveland wanted Crowder, but Ainge also wanted to keep him but just folded without fighting on that trade detail.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Sure, if you think Boston values a few inches of height more than all of: scoring efficiency, scoring volume, rebounding ability, passing ability (as measured by assist %), defensive ability (Jae is better at generating steals, equivalent at blocks, and rates higher by DRPM, DBPM, and scouting). Jae is, across the board, a superior player to Morris and in several categories, like scoring efficiency, they aren't remotely close.
Jae essentially plays one position effectively, the 3 where we just added Hayward and have fine backups in Jaylen and Smart/Rozier in the smallball lineup. It doesn't matter who is a better player in a vacuum when Morris fills a hole at the 4 while Rozier figures to see a bump in minutes in the backcourt......for the roster balance of this particular team Jae had no role and no position to be a better producer than Morris/Rozier on the '17-'18 version of this team. This point has been discussed ad nauseum all summer and now Ainge included him for this very reason.......or due to Jae pulling a Kyrie and asking to be traded which is also very possible (probable?) once Hayward signed.
 

lovegtm

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Jae essentially plays one position effectively, the 3 where we just added Hayward and have fine backups in Jaylen and Smart/Rozier in the smallball lineup. It doesn't matter who is a better player in a vacuum when Morris fills a hole at the 4 while Rozier figures to see a bump in minutes in the backcourt......for the roster balance of this particular team Jae had no role and no position to be a better producer than Morris/Rozier on the '17-'18 version of this team. This point has been discussed ad nauseum all summer and now Ainge included him for this very reason.......or due to Jae pulling a Kyrie and asking to be traded which is also very possible (probable?) once Hayward signed.
Not to mention that, like Isaiah, Jae wasn't Jae before he joined the Celtics.

The pattern of even 25 year-old+ guys outperforming prior results while playing under Stevens is strong enough at this point that I think it has to be considered in any of these discussions.

I don't think we should assume that Morris will be the same guy he was in Detroit, or that Jae will be the same guy he was in Boston. And that's before even getting into HRB's accurate positional considerations.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Sure, if you think Boston values a few inches of height more than all of: scoring efficiency, scoring volume, rebounding ability, passing ability (as measured by assist %), defensive ability (Jae is better at generating steals, equivalent at blocks, and rates higher by DRPM, DBPM, and scouting). Jae is, across the board, a superior player to Morris and in several categories, like scoring efficiency, they aren't remotely close.
I know what the stats say and but three things to consider.

(1) One thing we think we know about Morris is that he guards LBJ better than just about anyone in the league. In 2015-16, he lead the league in defensive efficiency against LBJ holding him to 20.5 points per 100 (league average was 35.6).

(2) i have not seen a lot of Morris but everything I've read says that he has a post game. Crowder clearly does not. Some things I've read says that Morris can beat guys off the dribble. Crowder struggled with that.

(3) Which brings us to scoring efficiency. Jae played in a much more scorer friendly team/system. He got a bunch of open looks and looks at the rim and he converted them at a high rate. I think it's pretty likely that Morris' scoring efficiency is going up this year and Jae's is going down because of system.

In other words, to say that Crowder is a clearly superior player to Marcus might be understating Marcus. I'm looking forward to seeing what he can provide.
 

soxfan121

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Here's an article on how Kyrie might benefit by playing in Boston's motion heavy offense.
Oh my.

Though the volume was low, he shot nearly 82 percent off cuts last season. He has gravity as a screener; teams can’t over-help to take away the cut, or it’d leave Irving open for a shot in the corner. Play it too conservatively, and the cut will be open. If the defense guards the first two options well, it still has to worry about Irving producing on the back end of the play. He ranked in the 85th percentile on off-screen plays. He can stop on a dime and raise up for the jumper, or get all the way to the rim and finish.
I don't think there's gonna be much iso in this offense and I don't think Kyrie (or Gordon) is going to care. Sweet baby jesus, if Irving buys in and has chemistry with Hayward (and Tatum/Brown!), this is going to be really fun to watch.
 

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Sure, if you think Boston values a few inches of height more than all of: scoring efficiency, scoring volume, rebounding ability, passing ability (as measured by assist %), defensive ability (Jae is better at generating steals, equivalent at blocks, and rates higher by DRPM, DBPM, and scouting). Jae is, across the board, a superior player to Morris and in several categories, like scoring efficiency, they aren't remotely close.
I know, it was just a magical coincidence that they got longer everywhere and that after signing a much better 3 went out and traded their undersized SG for a longer player in hopes that they could trade him. Because what they really really wanted to do was move the guy whose length was average, for a guard, into the power 3 slot.
 

lovegtm

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I know, it was just a magical coincidence that they got longer everywhere and that after signing a much better 3 went out and traded their undersized SG for a longer player in hopes that they could trade him. Because what they really really wanted to do was move the guy whose length was average, for a guard, into the power 3 slot.
Didn't you get the memo that you can evaluate all NBA transactions by summing the RPMs of the players involved, and comparing said sums?
 

Tony C

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In fairness to Kyrie his weaknesses should all be easy to fix. He is already great at creating scoring opportunities and drawing double teams. All he needs to do is get better at picking out open teammates.

The issue is simply motivation. In Cleveland he wanted the ball in his hands but he did not want the responsibility of running the offense. If he is coming to Boston because he wants to re-enact the classic "four guys stand around and watch Kobe play hero ball" style of play then I am going to throw things at my TV. If he buys into running the offense for the Celtics then I won't mind him dominating the ball.
Ainge and Brad should just point out how playing within the system got a guy whose skill set has some similarities to Kyrie's into the top 5 in MVP voting, 3rd team All-NBA, and top 3 in scoring.
I just think far too much is being made of Stevens' coaching and Kryie's motivation. I can't count the number of trades that have been justified by the "he'll be different here" theme. 9 times out of 10 a player is who a player is -- Kryie's just 25, but he has a ton of experience and, frankly, if he wasn't motivated in Cleveland playing for a championship he won't be motivated anywhere. I'm not saying there's no chance he'll improve and no chance Stevens' system will get him to buy into not needing to be so ball dominant, but I think it's wishcasting to assume those things will happen. I'm especially dubious since his motivation for demanding a trade was wanting to be the man -- that sounds like a guy motivated to double down on his worst habits, not change them.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I just think far too much is being made of Stevens' coaching and Kryie's motivation. I can't count the number of trades that have been justified by the "he'll be different here" theme. 9 times out of 10 a player is who a player is -- Kryie's just 25, but he has a ton of experience and, frankly, if he wasn't motivated in Cleveland playing for a championship he won't be motivated anywhere. I'm not saying there's no chance he'll improve and no chance Stevens' system will get him to buy into not needing to be so ball dominant, but I think it's wishcasting to assume those things will happen. I'm especially dubious since his motivation for demanding a trade was wanting to be the man -- that sounds like a guy motivated to double down on his worst habits, not change them.
I mentioned it earlier, others have alluded to it and the comments by Durant to Simmons I think shine some light on it, but maybe it's not so much about being THE MAN as much as it has to grating to be LeBron's teammate. With another season of 'will he won't he?' coming (and most likely ending with, he will leave and leave a shit show in his wake), I don't blame Kyrie for wanting out now, when he has the most leverage he could have.

Now, maybe it is* all wishcasting that he will improve or that he will buy into the system, but I don't think it's all that big a leap. I also don't see the 'he wasn't motivated' angle. Par for the course the last three seasons since LBJ came back has been coast to the playoffs, then turn it up, which is pretty much exactly what he did, no? Perhaps in a more competitive and 'play hard every night' environment, that switch gets flipped more often.

For the record, win regards to championship motivation, I think if they hadn't won their ring, you don't see this trade demand from KI, likely in part because LBJ might be staying put in that scenario. But he sees the writing on the wall as to where the franchise is headed.
 

JakeRae

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I know, it was just a magical coincidence that they got longer everywhere and that after signing a much better 3 went out and traded their undersized SG for a longer player in hopes that they could trade him. Because what they really really wanted to do was move the guy whose length was average, for a guard, into the power 3 slot.
Not magic, but definitely a coincidence. Ainge went after the best available free agent. Signing him involved sacrificing a ton of length (which you for some reason ignore) in Jerebko, Zeller, and Olynyk. He then traded Bradley in the best available deal to clear cap space. Morris was a great return on Bradley in a vacuum and a great positional fit, so it's impossible to know if he was simply the best option for making room without sacrificing talent or if it was a targeted move for size. The bottom line is that the trade wasn't about getting longer, it was about clearing cap room for Hayward while sacrificing as little as possible. And, much like Crowder is better than Morris, he is also better than Bradley and cheaper and controlled for longer.

The Kyrie trade occurred discretely from the above. It was not a connected transaction. The logical assumption, if we are speculating why Crowder instead of Morris+Rozier is either that Cleveland preferred Crowder because he is the best player of the three or that Ainge was concerned with overly depleting depth and was unwilling to add Rozier too, not that he values Morris over Crowder. (Or that wrapping up the deal mattered.) Any of these makes sense. Preferring Morris to Crowder because of a newfound theoretical obsession with length over talent does not.

Note: in general, length is correlated with talent. Thus, for example, GSW has repeatedly improved by adding talent that also added length. But, it would be silly to think that if Harden had been the guy on the market a year ago, GSW also wouldn't have done the same thing they did for Durant because keeping Barnes would've left them with better length.
 

nighthob

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K-Rex was the exact opposite of a long athletic player. I mean, yes, technically they sacrificed their third string center and backup PF in order to sign an all star in his prime. And then everywhere on the roster added length. From the backup C spot, to their draftees, to trading for Morris.

From the start most of us said that Boston wasn't moving Crowder, who isn't very long for a G, to the power 3 spot on the floor and that he was going to be moved in a deal for an upgrade elsewhere. And even after it happened you guys are fighting it.
 

benhogan

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I just think far too much is being made of Stevens' coaching
***fanboy alert***

The W/L improvement every season has been nice.

All these guys played better in Brad's system:
Evan Turner, Isiah Thomas (massively), Jae Crowder (massively), Jonas Jerebko, Sullinger, Jeff Green, Rondo, Zeller (1st season)

Probably no difference: Horford (efficiently used differently), Amir (efficient minutes while injured), Greene (big playoff performance/role player)

Courtney Lee is the only player, that I can recall, that didn't benefit from playing in Brad's system.

We'll soon have more sample size after this season: Kelly Olynyk, Avery Bradley, Morris, Kyrie, Hayward.

If you wanted to nit pick, maybe you could criticize his development of rookies: Young & Hunter are gone. No 2nd rounder has produced anything meaningful. BUT Smart, Rozier & Brown have all developed at a measured pace and will play key roles next season. Actually, he has done better than average with the draftees.

Question: Can you name one coach in the NBA/NCAA who you would rather have coaching the Celtics right now? Maybe Pop, but he is getting up there in age and has always had a top 5 superstar combined with talented vets on his rosters.
 

lovegtm

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. I'm especially dubious since his motivation for demanding a trade was wanting to be the man -- that sounds like a guy motivated to double down on his worst habits, not change them.
With the exception of the Knicks, the teams he requested were:
Heat
Wolves
Spurs

Those are three of the tightest-run organizations in the NBA. Pop is Pop, Thibodeau is insane, and Spo's Heat are known for having perhaps the strictest mandated conditioning program in the league.

To me this looks less like someone who wants to be the man, and more like someone who wants to play in a real system, not an ad-hoc LeBron show.

The Knicks one throws people for a loop, but he probably just liked the idea of hometown, Porzingis, and the MSG lights. Plus, the Knicks *did* just fire Phil rather than let him continue blowtorching the team's future, so I could see how Kyrie could talk himself into that.

I think the Celtics will get buy-in from Kyrie MUCH more easily than the naysayers are predicting.
 

RedOctober3829

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Sources: After Isaiah Thomas underwent physical today, Cavs still evaluating injured hip and weighing options w/ completion of Irving deal.


Thomas traveled to Cleveland, took exam and flew back out of town, sources said. All players must pass physical, or a deal can be voided.

 

Jed Zeppelin

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Brooklyn pick is still the best piece they're going to get, nobody can or will top it. Seems like a bit of a dog and pony show since everybody knows IT is basically there to provide credibility in Lebron's last year.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Cleveland could have had this in their plans all along to try to pry Taytum out of Boston. Which isn't happening. Would stink to have to give up more, possibly the Cs 2018 first round pick. But no way they will give up Taytum.
 

heavyde050

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Source told me this week a renegotiation attempt would be a likely option before anything was rescinded if it reached that point.
What else could possibly be in the deal if IT4 had to come out? I mean if his hip is that bad, a couple of extra picks/players won't change the calculus, or would it?
 

LondonSox

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Brooklyn pick is still the best piece they're going to get, nobody can or will top it. Seems like a bit of a dog and pony show since everybody knows IT is basically there to provide credibility in Lebron's last year.
I think the reported bucks offer is much better for this year, but not for the long term perhaps due to the pick.
If this goes through with the concerns I mean, LeBron is gone and they are planning for it.
 

heavyde050

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Cleveland could have had this in their plans all along to try to pry Taytum out of Boston. Which isn't happening. Would stink to have to give up more, possibly the Cs 2018 first round pick. But no way they will give up Taytum.
The Celtics already gave up plenty in the deal (Crowder and the Brooklyn pick). If the Cavs don't like it; I am hoping the C's just hold firm. The Cavs aren't getting anything better than that Brooklyn pick.
 

snowmanny

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Cleveland could have had this in their plans all along to try to pry Taytum out of Boston. Which isn't happening. Would stink to have to give up more, possibly the Cs 2018 first round pick. But no way they will give up Taytum.
the Cavs are going to keep IT and ask for more? Seems nutty. Deals either on or off.
 

riboflav

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One argument that made little sense to me from those who loved the deal was that IT's hip is screwed so we profit! Well, if it's really that bad, and it may be based on these reports and what we've heard prior, then the trade itself could simply be voided. So, it's not like that was ever a reason to celebrate the trade.

His hip is junk! Good riddance! LOL at Cleveland! Oh you mean the trade can be called off?!?! F*********CK
 

riboflav

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The Celtics already gave up plenty in the deal (Crowder and the Brooklyn pick). If the Cavs don't like it; I am hoping the C's just hold firm. The Cavs aren't getting anything better than that Brooklyn pick.
I agree with this assuming IT's hip is simply injured and the timetable to getting him back to 100% is a little longer than what the Cavs had thought. But, if his hip means IT is never again to be the same player then either the Cs will have to pony up more or the deal is off.
 

finnVT

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One argument that made little sense to me from those who loved the deal was that IT's hip is screwed so we profit! Well, if it's really that bad, and it may be based on these reports and what we've heard prior, then the trade itself could simply be voided. So, it's not like that was ever a reason to celebrate the trade.

His hip is junk! Good riddance! LOL at Cleveland! Oh you mean the trade can be called off?!?! F*********CK
Unless Cleveland already knew that, and IT was in there to make salaries work, which I think was the presumption of those arguments. If Cle thought they were getting a 100% healthy IT, that makes them look pretty ill prepared.
 

heavyde050

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I agree with this assuming IT's hip is simply injured and the timetable to getting him back to 100% is a little longer than what the Cavs had thought. But, if his hip means IT is never again to be the same player then either the Cs will have to pony up more or the deal is off.
I guess my question would be why would the C's still trade for Kyrie if they got stuck keeping IT?
I mean Danny isn't giving up the Lakers pick or Tatum (according to many of the reports after the trade).
How does a Kyrie trade work if the Cavs won't take IT?
And if they do keep IT, they already agreed to a trade, so why would the C's throw in more? IT is either healthy enough to be in the trade or he isn't, right?
 

Sam Ray Not

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I'll be miffed if the deal falls apart over this. IT's hip issues were well known, and baked into the cake. He's on an expiring $6.3M contract, and is clearly the third most valuable asset in the trade. Even if he never plays a game, it's good deal for Cleveland, imho.
 

riboflav

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I'll be miffed if the deal falls apart over this. IT's hip issues were well known, and baked into the cake. He's on an expiring $6.3M contract, and is clearly the third most valuable asset in the trade. Even if he never plays a game, it's good deal for Cleveland, imho.
We don't really know and we don't know what Cleveland knew or what the Celtics told them. All we know is he had a hip injury that was deemed serious, we think. As far as his ability to fully heal from it and the timetable he was on... do we know that? Did Cleveland? IDK.
 

Murby

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We don't really know and we don't know what Cleveland knew or what the Celtics told them. All we know is he had a hip injury that was deemed serious, we think. As far as his ability to fully heal from it and the timetable he was on... do we know that? Did Cleveland? IDK.
We obviously don't know what Danny did or did not tell Cleveland, however, I think we can make some logical presumptions. Danny knew the emotional attachment between IT, the team, and the city, so he knew it would be tough to tell him that he was being traded. Would he go through all of that with an attempt to soft-pedal any injury information he might have on IT if he thought it might blow up a trade post-announcement? Danny might be a gambler, but I can't see him taking the risk of soft-pedaling the injury, get Cleveland to go, then hope Cleveland just takes the hit.

Would Danny have to clear with IT the release of medicals?
 

NDame616

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"IT has a bad hip and Cleveland knew about it going in" isn't completely true. Their medical team didn't evaluate him. I don't know what MRIs/XRays are exchanged during negotiations but maybe their medical staff evaluated him and don't even think his hip can last THIS year. (Also maybe it is just a leverage ploy)
 

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Connecticut
Now I am a little baffled. My points in favor of the trade from the Celtic point of view were that it seemed obvious from even a cursory glance at the description of the injury that
IT is dealing with a major injury (aggravation of a right femoral-acetabular impingement with labral tear) that has at least a 20% chance to be career ending (actually I am puzzled why surgery to repair the labrum has not been already done) and in any event event one would have to assume the injury would cost him significant playing time and effectiveness this coming year and in the future. Therefore 1 yr of IT with a significant injury even at a bargain rate is not a major asset. I am just not sure how Cleveland would have thought otherwise --- I figured that all paties assumed the physical was not going to go well.

Cleveland understood this as the deal:

Nets' pick
Crowder
Zizic
maybe 50 games for IT and then see ya especially if a max contract was the discussion.

for 2 yrs of Kyrie (Cleveland figured to have almost no chance of resigning him)

So Celtic upside:
Sign Kyrie for a multiple yr contract

Cleveland upside
Nets' pick comes in at #1-5 in a draft that is considered in an excellent draft yr
Zizic - lottery ticket
Crowder - very useful support player at a bargain rate

The only thing I can surmise is that Cleveland had hoped that IT would be close to 100% for at least 1 yr. Although I guess it is possible this was their thinking, from reading about the injury it seemed that the chances of this are very unlikely.
 

FredCDobbs

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 5, 2004
563
Austin
Well this is super shitty...Most likely thing is that we throw in another pick from our stash, making the deal more painful for us. Isaiah-Danny would make Lebron-Kyrie look harmonious if this was called off.

Maybe we could trade them the "more valuable" Lakers pick instead of Brooklyn. I understand the West is really good, but give me the unprotected Brooklyn pick seven days a week.
 

kazuneko

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,816
Honolulu HI
I'd rather keep the Brooklyn pick than Kyrie.

Rozier at PG is fine with me.
For the 40% of us who hate this trade this is the last ray of hope. Of course, if it ends up costing the Cs even more value that would be truly devastating to those of us who can't even stand this trade it in its current form..
 
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