Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?

Marciano490

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Given that Jason Kidd undoubtedly looks at himself every day in the mirror, it’s no surprise he’s a poor judge of character.
 

Cellar-Door

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Not shown: Mark Cuban holding gun to Jason Kidd's head while he's saying that
Nah, Kidd 100% believes that, he's every bit the egotist Kyrie is. He's like Kyrie if instead of being gullible and desperate for people to think he was smart Kyrie was an abusive alcoholic piece of shit.
 

joe dokes

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Sounds like the 3rd stage of grief to me.
I would have gone with "this is a great opportunity, and maybe his last, for kyrie to prove that he's not the team-killing loser he's been portrayed to be." But whaddoIknow?
 

NomarsFool

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So, here's a question, what are some other basketball players that could rival Irving with regards to:

1) Undeniable ability and individual accomplishment (so NOT someone who has talent, but just never did anything with it)

2) Ridiculous distractions

3) Team killing antics

For example in football, Antonio Brown comes to mind, although I'm not sure #3 is true as football teams, given their size, are not as vulnerable as they are in basketball, I'd say.
 

The Social Chair

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So, here's a question, what are some other basketball players that could rival Irving with regards to:

1) Undeniable ability and individual accomplishment (so NOT someone who has talent, but just never did anything with it)

2) Ridiculous distractions

3) Team killing antics

For example in football, Antonio Brown comes to mind, although I'm not sure #3 is true as football teams, given their size, are not as vulnerable as they are in basketball, I'd say.
The unique part with Kyrie on 3) is that his former teammates still have great affection for him. He's beloved by guys like Tatum, Smart. Cam Thomas, etc.
 

Fishy1

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My sense has always been that Kyrie is effusively supportive of his teammates, excluding the occasional basketball disagreements that do happen, but paranoid and disruptive when it comes to coaches, GMs, and anyone else who has even the slightest control or tries to hold any power over him. So Kidd and he will be fine until they have a slight disagreement, I'd guess.
 

joe dokes

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My sense has always been that Kyrie is effusively supportive of his teammates, excluding the occasional basketball disagreements that do happen, but paranoid and disruptive when it comes to coaches, GMs, and anyone else who has even the slightest control or tries to hold any power over him. So Kidd and he will be fine until they have a slight disagreement, I'd guess.
This sounds right. Other than (I think) his stated desire to part from Lebron to be a top dog, his antics are aimed everywhere but his teammates. (Even though those antics end up hurting them).
 

JM3

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Yeah... Kyrie in Dallas has definite "Persuades Luka to bolt" potential.
I couldn't imagine the Mavs doing this without at least floating it by Luka's people first.

Of course, that won't matter if it ends up tanking the franchise, but one can always move on from Kyrie. His 3 former teams are all in the top 5 in the East.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I would have gone with "this is a great opportunity, and maybe his last, for kyrie to prove that he's not the team-killing loser he's been portrayed to be." But whaddoIknow?
Brooklyn was his last. He'll continue to play in the league, but his legacy is secure.
 

Saints Rest

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I couldn't imagine the Mavs doing this without at least floating it by Luka's people first.

Of course, that won't matter if it ends up tanking the franchise, but one can always move on from Kyrie. His 3 former teams are all in the top 5 in the East.
They tried to run it by Luka, but he was caught flat-footed and completely missed it.
 

NomarsFool

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The unique part with Kyrie on 3) is that his former teammates still have great affection for him. He's beloved by guys like Tatum, Smart. Cam Thomas, etc.
I can definitely understand that many players would be appreciative/loyal to Kyrie because of the individual generosity he often displays. It's puzzling to me, however, that they don't seem to see the impact he has with breaking up teams or stupid stuff like his behavior in the Bucks series a few years ago.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I can definitely understand that many players would be appreciative/loyal to Kyrie because of the individual generosity he often displays. It's puzzling to me, however, that they don't seem to see the impact he has with breaking up teams or stupid stuff like his behavior in the Bucks series a few years ago.
My guess is that this is due to the players evolving into an individual entity with the large majority of players viewing their brand and their contract status well above a fans view of what team building should look like. They see Kyrie, his contract, his Union leadership, his affable personality, and the success of his sneaker which places him on a pedestal as a basketball icon who they want to emulate (sans all the other stuff).

Boston probably has one of the best team cultures yet someone like Pritchard is publicly speaking about how he can’t wait to leave this summer (which I won’t blame) and his teammates understand. That isn’t the case in most other places where the old “12 men, 12 cabs” of half a century ago has been replaced by “12 men, 12 posses, and 12 business managers.”

This is what big time professional sports has become…..look at what occurred in the NFL yesterday. The big story was whether Sean Payton would continue to allow Russell Wilson’s personal QB coach to have the same access within the teams facilities as every other coach employed by the Broncos. They still play the games together but I heard it firsthand from a now ex-NFL player how it is a cutthroat business in that locker room (in one case, a player fighting for playing time stole the playbook from a starter which to them is like us losing our phones). I’d presume the NBA isn’t much different within most teams.
 
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astrozombie

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I can definitely understand that many players would be appreciative/loyal to Kyrie because of the individual generosity he often displays. It's puzzling to me, however, that they don't seem to see the impact he has with breaking up teams or stupid stuff like his behavior in the Bucks series a few years ago.
This is where I am at. I suspect that the reason he doesn't catch any grief from teammates about his behavior vis-a-vis coaches/GMs/owners/fans is that 1) it really does no good for anyone to insert themselves into that and 2) it is at best, a bad look to be a player looking like you are siding with ownership over a player, no matter what that player did. Better for everyone to lie low, "this is a business", etc.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is where I am at. I suspect that the reason he doesn't catch any grief from teammates about his behavior vis-a-vis coaches/GMs/owners/fans is that 1) it really does no good for anyone to insert themselves into that and 2) it is at best, a bad look to be a player looking like you are siding with ownership over a player, no matter what that player did. Better for everyone to lie low, "this is a business", etc.
With all due respect I feel it is delusional to believe a player, one likely from a similar culture, would shun that player to side with an insanely rich owner from a different generation and completely different culture which they cannot relate.
 

Jimbodandy

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I think that folks here can't fathom what it's like being these guys. Kyrie has a "brand" that goes beyond his direct contributions on the court, first of all. Guy starred in his own movie, has his own shoe, basically had an influence beyond pointz. And he's clearly personable with players, even the guys who don't appreciate everything that he does. Hell we've all had drinks after work with some cock who killed our project/deal and got over it, nevermind if he's one of maybe a hundred guys on earth who knows pretty much exactly what it's like to be you, if you're a top100 player in 2023. JB/JT seem to love him, and Lebron was publicly lamenting that the Lakers didn't get him. It's not like those cats didn't remember his tantrums. They just see past it. My .02.

Edit: fwiw, I wouldn't get past the antisemitism and am disappointed that others have, but when we're talking about "giving up in a series" or "shooting his way out of town", these guys forget that shit.
 

Justthetippett

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I think these guys just appreciate how talented a player Kyrie is and the rest is just noise. They all probably feel aggrieved by the media, ownership, etc. so there's a camraderie there that extends off the court. It's also possible that Kyrie is much less annoying in person than he comes across publicly.
 

Smokey Joe

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I can definitely understand that many players would be appreciative/loyal to Kyrie because of the individual generosity he often displays. It's puzzling to me, however, that they don't seem to see the impact he has with breaking up teams or stupid stuff like his behavior in the Bucks series a few years ago.
It was pretty clear that there were a number of other players on the Celtics who would have happily driven Kyrie to the airport by the end of his tenure here. These included Al Horford, Jaylen Brown and (I think) Marcus Smart. I am sure there are a number of Nets players doing fist pumps of joy right now. It just does no good to make these things public and if it is reported, it is very circumspect and in between the lines.
 

Cellar-Door

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It was pretty clear that there were a number of other players on the Celtics who would have happily driven Kyrie to the airport by the end of his tenure here. These included Al Horford, Jaylen Brown and (I think) Marcus Smart. I am sure there are a number of Nets players doing fist pumps of joy right now. It just does no good to make these things public and if it is reported, it is very circumspect and in between the lines.
Some of those are far from clear, Smart has always said good things about Kyrie. The Jaylen stuff was far more hopeful smoke than fire, and Jaylen now talks about him as a friend and mentor (and seems to hold some of the same views).
 

Auger34

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It was pretty clear that there were a number of other players on the Celtics who would have happily driven Kyrie to the airport by the end of his tenure here. These included Al Horford, Jaylen Brown and (I think) Marcus Smart. I am sure there are a number of Nets players doing fist pumps of joy right now. It just does no good to make these things public and if it is reported, it is very circumspect and in between the lines.
Smart actually liked Kyrie if I remember correctly. I think the players thag didn’t like him were Horford and the young guys (save for Tatum) like Rozier and Jaylen.

Jaylen and Kyrie are friendly now but they definitely didn’t get along when they were on the same team.

The impression I get from Kyrie isn’t that he’s necessarily a bad guy or anything but that he’s exhausting to be around every day as a teammate.
 

fairlee76

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This sounds right. Other than (I think) his stated desire to part from Lebron to be a top dog, his antics are aimed everywhere but his teammates. (Even though those antics end up hurting them).
I thought a lot of the tension in Boston began when Kyrie started to feel some of the younger guys (thinking JB but might be off) did not "know their lane" and Kyrie started to perceive them as challengers to his unquestioned top dog status? That deep playoff run the young Celtics made sans Kyrie really seemed to piss him off. On the Nets, I would think KD is so transcendent that even Kyrie would not question his role in that hierarchy.

He definitely seems to have a problem accepting the word of authority figures or established facts/knowledge. That's where his being such a genius must be a real burden.
 

Kliq

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I thought a lot of the tension in Boston began when Kyrie started to feel some of the younger guys (thinking JB but might be off) did not "know their lane" and Kyrie started to perceive them as challengers to his unquestioned top dog status? That deep playoff run the young Celtics made sans Kyrie really seemed to piss him off. On the Nets, I would think KD is so transcendent that even Kyrie would not question his role in that hierarchy.

He definitely seems to have a problem accepting the word of authority figures or established facts/knowledge. That's where his being such a genius must be a real burden.
How can we forget all the quotes from Kyrie about how the Celtics were young and didn't know what it takes to win a title?
 

HomeRunBaker

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How can we forget all the quotes from Kyrie about how the Celtics were young and didn't know what it takes to win a title?
Well last years inability to close out a 2-1 Finals lead with 3 straight losses proved his statement to be kinda accurate, no? I mean the guy has plenty of warts but he sure wasn’t wrong on this call.
 

Jimbodandy

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Well last years inability to close out a 2-1 Finals lead with 3 straight losses proved his statement to be kinda accurate, no? I mean the guy has plenty of warts but he sure wasn’t wrong on this call.
I don't know man. Kyrie turns 31 next month and has as many playoff games on his resume as Tatum and fewer than Brown. Sure, he won a ring playing next to a top-2 forever player and hit a big shot (yay), but this isn't Michael Jordan or Bill Russell saying it.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't know man. Kyrie turns 31 next month and has as many playoff games on his resume as Tatum and fewer than Brown. Sure, he won a ring playing next to a top-2 forever player and hit a big shot (yay), but this isn't Michael Jordan or Bill Russell saying it.
I know your Kyrie bias here is evidence but “(yay)” on hitting the biggest shot of the decade while dropping 40+ in a Finals Game 7 on top of a couple 30+ games earlier in the series? That’s only a “yay?” Lol

Edit: Oh I thought this was someone else so disregard the bias part…..the yay stands though lol.
 

Myt1

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Well last years inability to close out a 2-1 Finals lead with 3 straight losses proved his statement to be kinda accurate, no? I mean the guy has plenty of warts but he sure wasn’t wrong on this call.
No, it doesn’t. It just proves that the other team had professional basketball players, too, and they get to try to win as well.

You have a lot of posts in the “defend Kyrie Irving from all possible criticisms,” mold. Like, a weird amount.
 

Jimbodandy

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I know your Kyrie bias here is evidence but “(yay)” on hitting the biggest shot of the decade while dropping 40+ in a Finals Game 7 on top of a couple 30+ games earlier in the series? That’s only a “yay?” Lol

Edit: Oh I thought this was someone else so disregard the bias part…..the yay stands though lol.
No, he was great in that finals. But if I were Michael Anthony in like 1982 or so, I wouldn't be talking about how my band kicked ass while sharing a stage with Eddie and Dave. He's playing next to GOAT-B, has one ring, and 53 other playoff games spread among the other 11 seasons that he played in the league.

By comparison, the NBA Twitterverse would eat Pierce and Garnett for lunch if they were walking around telling everyone how to win with one ring in the league, and neither of those guys played with Lebron.
 

HomeRunBaker

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No, it doesn’t. It just proves that the other team had professional basketball players, too, and they get to try to win as well.

You have a lot of posts in the “defend Kyrie Irving from all possible criticisms,” mold. Like, a weird amount.
This was a silly criticism bc it was at least partially true when a young team couldn’t handle success and folded in a Finals. I’ve also repeated that there are plenty of things to criticize Kyrie for but you simply ignored that.
 

joe dokes

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I know your Kyrie bias here is evidence but “(yay)” on hitting the biggest shot of the decade while dropping 40+ in a Finals Game 7 on top of a couple 30+ games earlier in the series? That’s only a “yay?” Lol
Its only one series.
 

Jimbodandy

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I mean, he was healthy and playing next to a healthy Durant (a top-10 all time player when he's done most likely) and those guys who don't know how to win gave him a colonoscopy last year.
 

fairlee76

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Well last years inability to close out a 2-1 Finals lead with 3 straight losses proved his statement to be kinda accurate, no? I mean the guy has plenty of warts but he sure wasn’t wrong on this call.
Right, but most teammates don't make that call/throw other guys under the bus in the context in which he did. I am probably reading too much into it wearing my Kyrie is so insecure glasses but that is how that comment came off in the moment, as him being threatened by other teammates' growth.

And having just listened to the Lowe post episode on the Kyrie trade, I am now really, really, really glad he did not go to the LAL. If the stars had aligned and he, LeBron, and AD were all somehow healthy come playoff time, they would have been a tough out.
 

Myt1

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This was a silly criticism bc it was at least partially true when a young team couldn’t handle success and folded in a Finals. I’ve also repeated that there are plenty of things to criticize Kyrie for but you simply ignored that.
No, it’s not. The statement he made is stupid and it’s almost always stupid, regardless of who makes it, but especially when the guy won a championship young while playing with the best player in the league.

But go ahead and list the top three or so things that Kyrie “knew” at that point in his career about how to win that his Celtics teammates didn’t. Should be pretty easy.

And I’m not ignoring it. I’m simply commenting on your penchant to defend him for doing stupid things, notwithstanding the disclaimers.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Well last years inability to close out a 2-1 Finals lead with 3 straight losses proved his statement to be kinda accurate, no? I mean the guy has plenty of warts but he sure wasn’t wrong on this call.
No, not all failures prove correct some weird prediction many years earlier. Also, you've stripped it of context. Kyrie was criticizing his teammates, who had accomplished a lot, to push blame off himself for the team performing worse with him. It was a stupid thing he said, using the fact that he was lucky enough to ride LeBron's coattails to a ring to denigrate players who accomplished far more team success than Kyrie ever did without Lebron. And he did it because as always he refuses to accept any blame or responsibility for his words or actions.
 

EvilEmpire

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They all probably feel aggrieved by the media, ownership, etc. so there's a camaraderie there that extends off the court.
I would add "fans" to that list. I think some players really appreciate Kyrie basically telling fans, media, coaches, and ownership to fuck off.

Maybe more than a few.