Kyrie is dirty rotten no good and we have schadenfreude…?

[Jimbodandy]

I know that every GM and coach thinks that they can "fix" Irving or at least get him on board to go with their program, but they have to know how this movie ends, right? Why would you give up any value for this player? I understand the amount of talent that Irving possesses, but I don't get why someone would willingly put him on their team.

I'm glad that the Celts got burned by him because you could really convince yourself that he'd be the last piece needed to make this team a champion. Maybe even a mini-dynasty. But he wouldn't.

He's also wildly overrated based on good branding. Maybe that's why he's so desirable to some teams, the "it factor", but his contribution to winning doesn't match the hype.

He's a 4 DARKO player, which puts him in the group of guys with Towns, Dame at the high end and Gobert, Harden, Booker, and Jaylen at the middle and lower end.

Folks think of him as a franchise guy, but his impact is in the #2 guy range. And with the distractions and chemistry issues that he brings, you have to think long and hard about bringing him in.

If he expressed an interest in Boston and Jaylen was the price, some people here would pack JBs bags though.

 

[djbayko]

If he expressed an interest in Boston and Jaylen was the price, some people here would pack JBs bags though.

No way. I don’t believe it. Show yourselves.

 

[Kliq]

He's also wildly overrated based on good branding. Maybe that's why he's so desirable to some teams, the "it factor", but his contribution to winning doesn't match the hype.

He's a 4 DARKO player, which puts him in the group of guys with Towns, Dame at the high end and Gobert, Harden, Booker, and Jaylen at the middle and lower end.

Folks think of him as a franchise guy, but his impact is in the #2 guy range. And with the distractions and chemistry issues that he brings, you have to think long and hard about bringing him in.

If he expressed an interest in Boston and Jaylen was the price, some people here would pack JBs bags though.

Kyrie was a #2 guy last year (with a stud #1 guy) and that got his team a first-round sweep. He's also going to be 31 next season; is a small guard and a pretty rough injury history. Even a "motivated" Kyrie isn't worth as much as some people probably think.

 

[Devizier]

Kyrie for Lowry and change makes sense AND gives me indigestion.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Kyrie for Lowry and change makes sense AND gives me indigestion.

Nobody who watched Lowry last year would do that. Guy isn't just toast. He's the crumbles of bread on the bottom of the toaster.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Kyrie for Lowry and change makes sense AND gives me indigestion.

Is the change Herro and a bunch of 1sts?
Lowry at 2/59 is a very much negative asset, he's got nothing left.

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1541457058557558784


Woj throwing it out there that the Lakers are the only team with an offer and BKN would rather let Kyrie walk.

Followed by:
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1541457381959389186


I don't think "I'll take a 30M pay cut" is the leverage Kyrie's camp thinks it is

 

[DJnVa]

If he expressed an interest in Boston and Jaylen was the price, some people here would pack JBs bags though.

No one here would do that. None. If I'm wrong on this, someone can post. Show your work.

Durant is another story.

 

[moondog80]

I can see why the Lakers would be interested. They are under huge pressure to win now, have little to no chance and presently constructed, and Kyrie might be the only possible path.

 

[JCizzle]

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1541457058557558784


Woj throwing it out there that the Lakers are the only team with an offer and BKN would rather let Kyrie walk.

Followed by:
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1541457381959389186


I don't think "I'll take a 30M pay cut" is the leverage Kyrie's camp thinks it is

Isn't Kyrie in a prominent union leadership role? Leaving money on the table seems like an awful move for the NBAPA.

 

[moondog80]

Isn't Kyrie in a prominent union leadership role? Leaving money on the table seems like an awful move for the NBAPA.

I get it, but I hate the mentality. If he's leaving money on the table on his own free will and under no pressure from any team, the NBAPA can pound sand if they don't like it.

 

[EvilEmpire]

How much money did Kyrie lose by not getting vaccinated?

Nothing that guy does would surprise me, including declining his option.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Isn't Kyrie in a prominent union leadership role? Leaving money on the table seems like an awful move for the NBAPA.

Yes very unusual. Kyrie is really good at making friends lol.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Isn't Kyrie in a prominent union leadership role? Leaving money on the table seems like an awful move for the NBAPA.

Chris Paul thinks that way, Kyrie is in union leadership so he can be told he's smart he's one of the most selfish players in the league he doesn't care about the union

 

[RorschachsMask]

View: https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/1541466129650126850?s=20&t=hfJYdvW0zgj2u-XSjI4NqA

 

[Just a bit outside]

View: https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/1541466129650126850?s=20&t=hfJYdvW0zgj2u-XSjI4NqA

Wouldn’t he run into the same problem DS had where he couldn’t get that much of a raise with the Lakers?

 

[The Social Chair]

How much money did Kyrie lose by not getting vaccinated?

Nothing that guy does would surprise me, including declining his option.

A lot. Nike dropped his signature shoe from their collection.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

A lot. Nike dropped his signature shoe from their collection.

I’m not sure this is true. Nike is coming out with the new Kyrie shoe in the fall.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Because most of these guys are getting fired in 2-3 years if they don't put together a good enough run, and Kyrie is a buy low chance, even if you get a single "Fuck the Nets I'm gonna show how good I am" season out of him before he inevitably starts being him again, it can get you a new contract. Also, it shifts blame. It's not that you screwed up, it's that Kyrie is ruining things.

I can see that, I guess. And it wasn't something that I considered. But even if you're in a "save my ass" mode, would the Kyrie headache be worth it? If we asked his former coaches whether it's worth it, how many would say yes. And while the blame shifting is a good thing, there's going to be a lot of folks who say that you can't control the locker room and can't lead a team.

I have no idea how good of a coach Steve Nash is, but from what I read he doesn't seem like the type of coach that I want. In the Athletic this morning there was a story about how the players constantly push him around, Iriving most of all. Would I want my team to hire a guy like that? And make no mistake, I'm not looking for a Vince Lombardi type of task master; but at the same time you want your coach to have some level of respect from him players.

 

[Sam Ray Not]

I’m not sure this is true. Nike is coming out with the new Kyrie shoe in the fall.

They're even dropping the price from $120 to $20.

 

[Senator Donut]

Wouldn’t he run into the same problem DS had where he couldn’t get that much of a raise with the Lakers?

Yes, but the Lakers have a path to cap space in 2023, so they don’t need an exception to sign Irving long term.

 

[The Social Chair]

I’m not sure this is true. Nike is coming out with the new Kyrie shoe in the fall.

Brooklyn Nets star Kyrie Irving has long had one of Nike's most popular and profitable signature basketball shoes, but uncertainties surrounding his NBA future have left the company unlikely to extend him to a similar signature deal beyond the 2022-23 season, sources told ESPN.


Irving has a new edition of his shoe set to debut in the fall, but that is expected to be the final year of a lucrative signature series that he has had with Nike since 2014, sources said.

 

[Saints Rest]

Calling his bluff? "Sure, go ahead, go out there and gauge the interest other teams have in trading for you."

Call it "The Manny Ramirez."

 

[Cellar-Door]

I can see that, I guess. And it wasn't something that I considered. But even if you're in a "save my ass" mode, would the Kyrie headache be worth it? If we asked his former coaches whether it's worth it, how many would say yes. And while the blame shifting is a good thing, there's going to be a lot of folks who say that you can't control the locker room and can't lead a team.

I have no idea how good of a coach Steve Nash is, but from what I read he doesn't seem like the type of coach that I want. In the Athletic this morning there was a story about how the players constantly push him around, Iriving most of all. Would I want my team to hire a guy like that? And make no mistake, I'm not looking for a Vince Lombardi type of task master; but at the same time you want your coach to have some level of respect from him players.

If you're a coach maybe not... but most coaches don't get to make that call, the GM does. then if it doesn't work he fires the coach to buy more time (see Westbrook on the Lakers).

 

[jmcc5400]

View: https://twitter.com/JakeLFischer/status/1541466129650126850?s=20&t=hfJYdvW0zgj2u-XSjI4NqA

You can already visualize the press conference in which Kyrie dismisses the press corps for its fixation on money and hear his profound observation that you “can’t put a price on freedom.”

 

[radsoxfan]

Lakers for 6M feels inevitable to me. Not sure what other options there are unless he wants to go back to Brooklyn but that ship may have sailed.

The Lakers are mediocre and have no path to improve so I think Kyrie is worth a flier for them. Not a lot of downside if they are realistic about their chances without him. There is a reason no other contenders want him.

Kyrie on his best behavior on a 1 year 6M deal might be the only chance he won't destroy another franchise. Plus, Lebron's a billionaire right? Maybe he'll hire some Kyrie family member as a personal assistant for 10M to help things along.

 

[Swedgin]

Yes, but the Lakers have a path to cap space in 2023, so they don’t need an exception to sign Irving long term.

Unless Lebron walks they would be well short of a max slot.

Cap is estimated at 128.

Davis, Tucker and Roster Charges takes them to around 60. Lebron's cap hold is 50M. Kryie getting a max would require Lebron leaving or leaving a lot of money on the table.

 

[nattysez]

Unless Lebron walks they would be well short of a max slot.

Cap is estimated at 128.

Davis, Tucker and Roster Charges takes them to around 60. Lebron's cap hold is 50M. Kryie getting a max would require Lebron leaving or leaving a lot of money on the table.

Edit -- never mind; we were saying the same thing. I agree that LBJ needs to take a pay cut to fit a max deal for Kyrie next offseason.

 

[moondog80]

If he does opt out, 6 mil isn't his only option anywhere, right? That's just the most the Lakers could offer him? Some other team with cap space could offer more?

 

[nattysez]

If he does opt out, 6 mil isn't his only option anywhere, right? That's just the most the Lakers could offer him? Some other team with cap space could offer more?

Correct.

 

[Swedgin]

Where are you seeing this? It appears that the only 2 players under contract for 2023-4 with the Lakers are AD and THT. So they'll have plenty of money to play Kyrie after this season. He plays for $6m this year and then they sign him long term next off-season.

You are correct that they only have two players under contract, but the CBA has a couple of rules that come into play. First, teams are assessed a roster charge at the minimum for each empty roster spot up to the league minimum. Second, players whom a team has bird rights to have a cap hold. That cap hold eliminates cap space - unless the team renounces the player's rights or signs the player to a new deal. So if Kyrie is going to get a max then either the Lakers have to renounce Lebron's bird rights and his 50M cap hold - or sign him to a new deal well short of his cap hold/max salary.

 

[radsoxfan]

If he does opt out, 6 mil isn't his only option anywhere, right? That's just the most the Lakers could offer him? Some other team with cap space could offer more?

For sure, but not a lot of teams will be interested, at any price. And once you factor in the teams Kyrie is willing to go to... the list isn't long. Might only be 1 team.

 

[Swedgin]

If he does opt out, 6 mil isn't his only option anywhere, right? That's just the most the Lakers could offer him? Some other team with cap space could offer more?

Right, the cap space teams are Detroit, Orlando, Indiana and the Spurs. The Knicks are in the process of creating space.

 

[nattysez]

You are correct that they only have two players under contract, but the CBA has a couple of rules that come into play. First, teams are assessed a roster charge at the minimum for each empty roster spot up to the league minimum. Second, players whom a team has bird rights to have a cap hold. That cap hold eliminates cap space - unless the team renounces the player's rights or signs the player to a new deal. So if Kyrie is going to get a max then either the Lakers have to renounce Lebron's bird rights and his 50M cap hold - or sign him to a new deal well short of his cap hold/max salary.

I just edited my post - you're right.

 

[Senator Donut]

Unless Lebron walks they would be well short of a max slot.

Cap is estimated at 128.

Davis, Tucker and Roster Charges takes them to around 60. Lebron's cap hold is 50M. Kryie getting a max would require Lebron leaving or leaving a lot of money on the table.

I’m assuming (maybe foolishly) that LeBron Won’t get $50 million for his age 39 season, so he’d be renounced or signed for less.

 

[ElUno20]

Couldnt lebron sign him to an entertainment deal or something under one of his production deals to develop shows? That could carve into that 30 million lost

 

[lexrageorge]

If the salary cap in 2023-24 remains at its projected $128M, the Lakers would have Davis ($40M), Tucker ($11M), and the incomplete roster charges (~$10M for 10 spots), leaving $67M to allocate between LeBron and Kyrie. I guess LA could have the two of them do a jump ball with the winner getting $40M and the loser getting the rest.

By then, Kyrie will be well into his decline phase, Anthony Davis will be entering his 30's, and LeBron entering his 40's by mid-season. And no intervening draft capital. I'm shorting the over on that team.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

Last I knew LA still had the vaccine requirement for local athletes, the same kind that kept Kyrie out of home games last year. I can't find that they rolled it back, but I may be bad at Google. It would be hilarious if he signed but could only play road games again.

 

[m0ckduck]

Is the change Herro and a bunch of 1sts?
Lowry at 2/59 is a very much negative asset, he's got nothing left.

Wouldn’t Lowry have to be In the deal as well to clear cap space? In general, I keep fearing a scenario where the Heat land Irving or (especially) Durant, but it’s hard to see them adding a big piece via trade with the chips they have.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Wouldn’t Lowry have to be In the deal as well to clear cap space? In general, I keep fearing a scenario where the Heat land Irving or (especially) Durant, but it’s hard to see them adding a big piece via trade with the chips they have.

They definitely have the pieces to make a deal.
They have all their own picks except 2025 (and 2026 because of the protections), Herro is an asset, Strus maybe too.
Salary match for any big contract would have to be Lowry and/or Robinson, neither of whom have positive value (or Bam I guess).
But yes they have the assets to keep Jimmy and Bam and add a star, might struggle with depth and they'd have to send a lot of picks.

 

[m0ckduck]

They definitely have the pieces to make a deal.
They have all their own picks except 2025 (and 2026 because of the protections), Herro is an asset, Strus maybe too.
Salary match for any big contract would have to be Lowry and/or Robinson, neither of whom have positive value (or Bam I guess).
But yes they have the assets to keep Jimmy and Bam and add a star, might struggle with depth and they'd have to send a lot of picks.

Right. The thing is, given the extent to which such a trade would cost them in picks, it feels like Kyrie isn’t enough of a return, especially given how little he buys into the defense-and-team concept they supposedly preach down there. Durant is a different story: definitely a sufficient return, if he becomes available, but that package wouldn’t be enough to get him.

So, in this sense, it feels like they are stuck in the middle w/r/t adding another star via trade (be it either of these two or Donovan Mitchell, say)

 

[Jimbodandy]

They definitely have the pieces to make a deal.
They have all their own picks except 2025 (and 2026 because of the protections), Herro is an asset, Strus maybe too.
Salary match for any big contract would have to be Lowry and/or Robinson, neither of whom have positive value (or Bam I guess).
But yes they have the assets to keep Jimmy and Bam and add a star, might struggle with depth and they'd have to send a lot of picks.

I don't see them getting off Lowry, so it becomes Robinson, Herro, and a bunch of picks probably. If you're Miami, why not. But if you're Brooklyn, how do you explain that to KD?

 

[Justthetippett]

Kyrie is so erratic at this point that the likelihood of him not making it a full season in LA (or with any other team) are as high as him being successful and contributing to a winning team. Taking a low salary seems like a built in excuse to be a flake. More interesting is what would happen in BRK. They’d have to do a firesale for picks, I would think.

 

[E5 Yaz]

I’m not sure this is true. Nike is coming out with the new Kyrie shoe in the fall.

*Unavailable in Canada

 

[Cellar-Door]

Kyrie is so erratic at this point that the likelihood of him not making it a full season in LA (or with any other team) are as high as him being successful and contributing to a winning team. Taking a low salary seems like a built in excuse to be a flake. More interesting is what would happen in BRK. They’d have to do a firesale for picks, I would think.

Not so sure about that. When you don't have your own picks there is far less incentive to blow things up. I would guess they shop Durant for a mega-deal that includes multiple players, keep Curry and try to win for a while, then sell off Harris and maybe Curry at the deadline

 

[johnmd20]

Couldnt lebron sign him to an entertainment deal or something under one of his production deals to develop shows? That could carve into that 30 million lost

I'm not sure Lebron would want to light 30 million dollars on fire for Kyrie Irving, tho.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I'm not sure Lebron would want to light 30 million dollars on fire for Kyrie Irving, tho.

also, the league would likely consider it a circumvention of the cap

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I'm not sure Lebron would want to light 30 million dollars on fire for Kyrie Irving, tho.

Plus, why would LeBron want to give Kyrie $30m of his (or his company's) own money? How's he getting reimbursed for this?

 

[Ed Hillel]

Plus, why would LeBron want to give Kyrie $30m of his (or his company's) own money? How's he getting reimbursed for this?

Pure entertainment?

 

[Justthetippett]

Not so sure about that. When you don't have your own picks there is far less incentive to blow things up. I would guess they shop Durant for a mega-deal that includes multiple players, keep Curry and try to win for a while, then sell off Harris and maybe Curry at the deadline

I guess this is more of a controlled burn. Depends what they could get for KD of course, and how much he can influence things.