I don't know how smart he is, but I think Kyrie might be better at trolling than he is at basketball, and we all know how good he is at basketball.
Kyrie’s comments on race in Boston
- Thread starter Sam Ray Not
- Start date
It's a story on ESPN during the playoffs. There is a thread here with some angry middle aged white men. I'm sure there are other people angry about it as well and this will be an ongoing topic all the way up to the next tip off and beyond.
Apologies, it was a lame attempt at sarcasm.
I am not sure the world needs the SoSH demographic's perspective on this topic for obvious reasons as well as the fact that many around here act as if they were left at the altar by Irving. It didn't work out - as a human who has been in situations that looked great on paper but didn't feel right, I can't hold that against him - and I get that others feel differently.
However I have absolutely no basis to refute or agree with Irving's statements nor am I qualified to even make an attempt.
Last edited:
Well you can go back to what Kyrie said in March of 2019 after the Cousins incident and it may be easier to refute his statement from last night.
View: https://twitter.com/JoeGiza/status/1397586118330261507
Agreed. Except we should keep in mind that our "history" isn't necessarily just decades ago. It's recent history too, like currently.
That doesn't take away from your main point.
I was going to say essentially the same thing:
Boston has terrible history of race relations, that hasn’t really gone away
AND
Kyrie has the emotional intelligence of the average twelve- year-old”
Do you really think he did this to annoy people?
I mean, it seems pretty clear to me that he did this to deflect any possible negativity away from him. Now, instead of the talk about his time here and how he flamed out when people are booing him, he’s basically made the topic taboo. When people boo him the conversation is going to be about “subtle racism” and no one in the media wants to touch that so instead they will move onto something else.
I don’t think Kyrie’s a troll or he’s playing 4D chess or anything like that. He seems like a legitimately dumb person who wants to be perceived as smart and also doesn’t want to take any criticism or responsibility for his actions. So he never directly addresses anything he has done or said but instead twists them into larger societal issues so he can never be called out for anything
I'm not one to defend Kyrie, but if he was asked a question and answered it, the thread title and the assumption that he is using this as cover to mitigate the booing he's going to get from the fans seems off.
Boston is racist. It's okay to say that. Honestly, every city in America is racist (as are many other cities in many other countries).
We, as a group of mostly white fans of Boston sports, don't need to fight against the comment. We can acknowledge the truth of it, while also working to make it better, and while also booing the ever living fuck out of Kyrie.
Yeah, I don't see the guy as a troll at all. Someone who loves basking in his own farts? Yes. Troll? Not so much.
He did actually. From Bleacher Report:
He also said:
To be sure, he later apologized and more or less admitted he was joking or just being intentionally obtuse, but that kind of proves the point - he says shit all the time just to get a rise out of people, and that very clearly is exactly what he is doing here, as made obvious by the fact that he was chuckling and giving an "aw-shucks-I'm-just-sayin" performance when the question was asked.
Not disagreeing with your overall point, but wanted to note that this was a follow-up question. The original question was regarding what he expects playing in front of the fans for the first time since he left. He offered the subtle racism comment and this followed.
Except that now when you, or anyone else, "boos the ever living fuck out of Kyrie" it will be because you're a Boston racist in the eyes of everyone outside of NE. That's what he cleverly accomplished last night. His history of dishonesty, fraudulence, sneaky conniving behavior and quitting on his team are no longer the relevant issues. Our blatant racism is now the main, and really only, issue.
I do think it would be a mistake/counterproductive for folks to publicly crucify the guy (note: this forum ain’t that) because even if he is trolling or just spitting out an answer to a reporter’s leading question (he was one step from ‘when did you start hearing the N word in Boston’), piling on the guy in the press could have a chilling effect on athletes speaking up.
I don’t doubt that most black athletes have more problems here than in most other cities, nor do I have any reason to believe Kyrie is an exception. Nor do I think it’s my place to tell any Black men when to speak and when to be silent about these issues, regardless of what I may think of them as individuals.
But this is only going to make the people who are part of the problem more convinced of their own righteousness. As you can see from the reaction here, even people who acknowledge the problem and were supportive when Torii Hunter and Adam Jones spoke up aren’t going to react the same way to Kyrie. I think Kyrie is self-aware enough to have known it would go that way. Which is fine — it’s not his job to make the world a better place, and he’s free to speak his mind. But as someone who lives here and would like for things to get better, I wish he hadn’t.
Meh. I think anyone with a critical eye will be able to understand that booing a star player who went back on a promise is to be expected from Boston. We booed Johnny Damon too.
That said, I cringe at the thread title - plays the race card. I think we can have this conversation, but that the onus is on us to approach the subject of racism with a bit more care. I understand that to many here Kyrie is the ultimate villain, but let's not let our contempt for the black basketball player who went back on a promise pollute our discussion of racism in the city. It's a fine line, I know, but I'm reminded of a recent comment in one of the Bruins/Capitols threads. Our tears are unbecoming.
I think Kyrie's actions and behavior on his way out of Boston (and Cleveland before that) are pretty common knowledge among general NBA fans. Yes, there are a small segment of people who will say "see. Kyrie was right!" but I would guess there are far more that understand the dynamic between Kyrie and most Celtics fans. I think that dynamic is far more rooted in Kyrie's behavior while with the Celts and way less rooted in fans being racist.
And Kyrie reminds me of that college friend who thinks he/she is super deep and just spends a ton of time talking in inanities or in circles. With a very serious, gravitas-indicating tone of voice and facial expression. He's a more polished Carl Everett - instead of Carl ranting about never seeing no damn dinosaurs, Kyrie calmly surmised that the Earth may be flat. Who can tell, really?
He is fun as hell to root against and I appreciate him for that. Not quite Clemens-with-the-Yankees but pretty close for me. I really hope the Finals include a western team (aka anyone other than the Lakers) that we can all enthusiastically root for, assuming the Nets come out of the east.
You don't have to be a bigot to have nothing but hatred in your heart for Kyrie. That's the trollish beauty of the "subtle racist" line Kyrie introduced. The implication is that to oppose Kyrie is to somehow be a closet White Supremacist.
Of course, those two forms of hatred aren't mutually exclusive, but the overwhelming majority of folks from Boston who boo and FU at Kyrie do so because he's a duplicitous asshole and a cancerous blight. He's truly one of the most loathsome, detestable characters in Boston sports history that I can recall. Kind of incredible he's achieved that status in such a short period of time. Wrecked total havoc.
Of course, those two forms of hatred aren't mutually exclusive, but the overwhelming majority of folks from Boston who boo and FU at Kyrie do so because he's a duplicitous asshole and a cancerous blight. He's truly one of the most loathsome, detestable characters in Boston sports history that I can recall. Kind of incredible he's achieved that status in such a short period of time. Wrecked total havoc.
No one should defend or rationalize racism, and as we've seen for the past year, racism is sadly alive and flourishing and being aggressively nourished in many parts of the US .
But leaving the front page and going to the sports section of out lives, KI knowingly changed the narrative and the villlian in the narrative. We boo him on his bailing on the role he wanted as alpha teacher-yoda to the young Celts and to mentor them and lead them. But rather than an alpha Celt, he needed a new alpha to play and win with. So Murph and Sully take the hit. And it was a cheap shot.
But leaving the front page and going to the sports section of out lives, KI knowingly changed the narrative and the villlian in the narrative. We boo him on his bailing on the role he wanted as alpha teacher-yoda to the young Celts and to mentor them and lead them. But rather than an alpha Celt, he needed a new alpha to play and win with. So Murph and Sully take the hit. And it was a cheap shot.
Kyrie is like the character from In Living Colour that used made up words because he thought he sounded smart.
Great. Now I am going to be revisiting In Living Colour clips all day: View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruRYa5KLVNU
This bothers me because back in the 80s Arsenio Hall, butthurt in 1984 after Magic lost, brought up "Celtics are racist" mostly because of his hate of Bird beating Magic. ESPN even let than clown on 30 for 30. Today I see over an over "Celtics are racist" brought up on social media, even to defend the Lakers adding the color barrier Mikan titles to their LA titles. I cannot speak to the city, but the Celtics had the first black player, black starting 5, first black coach, and have had three black head coaches win titles.
I would like to see the organization push back, noting this history.
I would like to see the organization push back, noting this history.
This is unfair. Jaden Smith has no discernable talent. Kyrie can play.
While I agree with most of this, Murph and Sully mostly have it coming. Murph and Sully also hate Lebron for his outspokenness, but they love MJ for keeping his mouth shut because Republicans buy shoes too.
That said, I loved mauf's post above. I have no issue with the message. I just wish that it was someone else delivering it. Because Kyrie did give up on his team in the playoffs and bolt for greener pastures, and he does say all sorts of weird shit (not just the flat earth stuff). And not only will his actual message here get lost, but the booing will appear to be in response to it.
I think the perfect answer would be to fill the TD Garden with POC and watch them boo loudly enough to be heard outside the 495 beltway.
This is perfect. And Jimbodandy’s first paragraph in response Is great too.
It’s an issue that needs to be talked about but the messenger and the message have to be genuine and seem to care about the issue. Not some dope who’s chuckling about it and clearly is less than sincere with his timing and reasoning
You nailed all of this with one exception.
If Kyrie has proven anything over his career it’s that he has literally 0 self awareness. Which, IMO, makes this even worse
Yes. Boston has a racist track record unfortunately (although, not sure if it is any different from everywhere in America). I was just using black because of Kyrie. I have many brown and asian friends that will attest to the shitty behaviors that they have experienced in Boston at times.
Without getting too far down the V & N rabbit hole, the worst thing about singling out individual cities and regions, like Boston or the south, is that it emboldens people to arrogantly and obliviously think where they live is somehow less tainted by racism. No. It. Isn’t. If the last year has been a reminder of anything, it’s that this cancer is everywhere. I have no vested interest in defending Boston, it’s history, and in some ways it’s present, is what it is. But we(meaning society in general, not really anyone here)should be way past playing gotcha, your city’s more racist than mine is. It betrays an inability to think critically, and accomplishes nothing.
I agree with you that racism is everywhere, but Boston has some issues that are fairly unique to Boston. First, it is an incredibly segregated city, much more so than most other large metropolitan areas. Second, professional people of color in Boston are almost non-existent, there are students and then there are people of color generally living in poverty in certain pockets of the city (intertwined with the segregation issue), but there simply are not a lot of doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc.. And it is a problem that builds on itself because professional people of color in Boston don't stay in Boston because there is a massive lack of support networks for them. Third, because the "Boston is a racist city" thing gets thrown around more than you hear about other places like Philly or New York or wherever, white Bostonians are tremendously thin skinned about it, and you can see it in this thread (edit: I don't mean to say your post is defensive, it isn't, just using it as a jumping off point). I could see how all of these things could contribute to wealthy, black professional athletes not exactly feeling comfortable in Boston, as compared to NY, LA, Atlanta, Philadelphia, etc. That may not be the same as being harassed by police or hearing someone use the N-word, but you could call it racism and I wouldn't object to the use of that term.
I've posted this before, but this Daily Show clip humorously hits on a number of these points:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtUgq2Q1ivA
Kyrie Irving is a dink and I agree with whoever said that it can be simultaneously true that he's shamelessly bringing this up now for completely self serving reasons AND it could also be true. But pushing back on the "Boston is a racist city" or trying to prove that if it is racist it isn't any more racist than anywhere else is just a bad look IMO. I accept that the city I love has a lot of work to do in this area.
Last edited:
A Pakistani-American friend of mine wrote this about a beating he once endured on the T:
"In Lahore, it's raining water. In Boston, it rains boots."
There is a fascinating book to be written out there about the origins of the "Boston fans are racist" concept - or maybe it's been written already and I just need to find it. But I think the above is absolutely spot on.
My own, entirely unscientific theory is that Boston fans are not especially racist in an absolute sense (in other words, I would be willing to bet a good amount of money that there are more racist Knicks fans than there are racist Celtics fans) but that they are in a relative sense because there just seem to be fewer black fans in the fanbase. Or maybe the better way to look at it is, there doesn't seem to be a culture of black fan support for Boston teams the way there is for the Knicks, Lakers, etc. And that, in turn, I suspect is largely due to what Ralphwiggum says above - there are very few professional people of color in Boston, which means that there are going to be very few people of color at Boston sporting events, which, again, means that the relative share of white racists at those events is inevitably going to be higher.
Of course, that is probably true of a lot of other fanbases too - not the Knicks, Nets, and Lakers of the world which are in cities with very diverse populations, but other, smaller cities (Minneapolis, Seattle, etc.). Which is where I think an element of popular perception does come in, almost all of which, to my mind, is a result of the 80s Lakers-Celtics rivalry where the Lakers were the fun, diverse team and the Celtics were the white villains (as portrayed in Do The Right Thing, for example). If you just swapped the rosters of Boston and, say, Milwaukee from the 80s, I strongly suspect we'd be talking about how Milwaukee fans are racist, not Boston. (Which certainly isn't to say that Boston doesn't have a sordid racial history, but so does, for example, LA, but there is no perception that LA sports fans are particularly racist.)
TLDR - my purely anecdotal take is that the "Boston fans are racist" perception is based largely on (a) the fact that there are, clearly, lots of racist Boston fans; (b) those fans aren't counterbalanced by a culture of strong non-white support (particularly among middle-class professionals who would be most likely to be the ones going to Boston sporting events); and (c) the 80s Lakers-Celtics rivalry cemented the idea in popular culture of Boston being a bunch of racist white people rooting on a team of mostly white stars.
Thanks for posting the video. Racism has deep roots in Boston and will continue to be a difficult problem for generations to come. Kyrie Irving is a lot of things however I can't work up any anger toward him for comments to the effect that racism is present here.
Most of contemporary Boston's racist history comes down to a history of segregated housing which kept Black people in only a few select neighborhoods in Boston and the Greater Boston area. Another factor, one that is either a symptom or a cause of the segregated housing, is that Boston did not experience the Great Migration at a rate similar to a lot of other Northeast and Midwestern cities. That means that not only are there less Black people in and around Boston, but specifically less generational Black families with roots in Boston. This has led to less Black owned businesses, less Black politicians, less Black professionals and ultimately, in my unscientific opinion, less Black fans of Boston sports teams relative to other cities.
Even today, it's not like African-Americans are flocking to Boston from other parts of the country. The amount of Black people in Massachusetts is increasing, but that increase is coming from a lot more immigration from Africa and the Caribbean, which comes with a different set of circumstances, since immigrant families are even more likely to be poor, less educated, and less tied down to local sporting traditions than multi-generational African Americans.
Even today, it's not like African-Americans are flocking to Boston from other parts of the country. The amount of Black people in Massachusetts is increasing, but that increase is coming from a lot more immigration from Africa and the Caribbean, which comes with a different set of circumstances, since immigrant families are even more likely to be poor, less educated, and less tied down to local sporting traditions than multi-generational African Americans.
IIRC "Shut Out" by Howard Bryant indirectly takes the bolded on, but with a narrow focus on the Red Sox. Maybe less "Boston fans are racist" and much more "the Red Sox management was racist."