La Liga 2016-2017: General News & Commentary

bosox4283

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I wanted to start this thread because (1) there are more than three teams in La Liga than Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Atletico, and (2) La Liga is really a mess, for a multitude of reasons. Most notably, there was a threat of a strike last season. In a nutshell, it seems that the government declared the strike to be illegal, so the games went on, but I don't think any of the issues have been resolved.
 
Today, Elche, a team whose past ownership/management ran the club into debt, was relegated to Segunda by a judge's decision. The current ownership/management--I'm not sure which--is fighting the decision, claiming that they've established a plan to pay the team's debts by the start of this upcoming season.
 
The only silver lining is that Elche's demotion implies that Eibar would be back in La Liga next year.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Overall, the developments over the last six months regarding the new TV deal should be very positive for La Liga.  Starting in 2016-17 the league will collectively negotiate domestic TV rights with broadcasters, like the Premier League, and the way that money is distributed will be much more equitable, following a similar formula to the Premier League.  This contrasts with the current system, in which clubs individually sell their own rights, which has led both to a huge advantage for Real/Barca over others (they get like 140m euro currently annually, while Atleti gets like 40 and small clubs get virtually nothing) but also a very small overall pie compared to other countries.  The new Premier League TV deal was a huge wake up call for Spain, showing just how far behind they've fallen in terms of the overall size of TV revenues due to this dumb system.
 
From what I understand, there is a clause in the new TV legislation negotiated this past spring that essentially means that the amount earned by Barcelona and Real Madrid cannot decrease in absolute terms from their current contracts, which smooths the transition for them by making sure they don't experience a drastic hit in revenues.  That was probably the price of getting their support or at least acquiescence. But this new structure should produce TV deals substantially bigger in overall size - the current system has led to a situation in which Spain only has 4m pay TV subscribing households, compared to 15m in England - so that the new regime should still be a game changer that will help the other clubs quite a lot.  I think they still need to figure out the international TV aspect, but collective negotiation there should allow them to generate much more revenue.  In particular, the potential for selling La Liga packages in Latin America is obviously huge.  So all this looks very promising...as long as the deal doesn't get manipulated and watered down too much by corrupt Spanish politicians.
 

bosox4283

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Barcelona has signed Aleix Vidal from Sevilla. I'm confused, though: I thought Barcelona was not able to sign anyone during two transfer periods? Aleix cannot play until January, so I guess there is some sort of ban. But what's the point of a ban if Barcelona can sign players this summer and during the winter transfer period and simply wait to play them?
 

Apisith

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They can sign players but they're banned from registering them. FIFA can't stop then from handing out employment contracts, they're just preventing them for registering for La Liga, Copa del Rey and CL. The ban is still in place, but Vidal will be at the club training.
 

Zososoxfan

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Reading between the lines, this does not bode well for an Alves return to Barca. Will be interesting to see what happens with Montoya and Adriano too.
 

bosox4283

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Zososoxfan said:
Reading between the lines, this does not bode well for an Alves return to Barca. Will be interesting to see what happens with Montoya and Adriano too.
 
I guess you haven't seen the news: Alves has signed for two years, with an option for a third year.
 
Luis Enrique has also signed until 2017 with the club. Makes sense. How could management allow him to walk after winning three major titles this year?
 

Zososoxfan

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bosox4283 said:
 
I guess you haven't seen the news: Alves has signed for two years, with an option for a third year.
 
Luis Enrique has also signed until 2017 with the club. Makes sense. How could management allow him to walk after winning three major titles this year?
 
Just coming in to post this. Great news for Dani and Barca. Vidal can learn his new role (he was more of an attacker from what I've read and he will likely play wingback for FCB) with plenty of time, but will still push Alves.
 
Khedira is transferring from Real to Juve. He should be able to slot in nicely for Pirlo's spot.
 
Also, very happy to hear Eibar may be (definitely?) staying up in La Liga. If you like sports stories, look them up. They had to expand their stadium size after qualifying for the top division because previously it was too small. The Hudson broadcast for the Barca game was awesome. At one point, a ball went out of bounds...and out of the stadium down a city street. Great stuff.
 

filthywater49

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And meanwhile, Elche gets relegated for €7m of debt after their players had earned another year in the top flight. Tough to feel very good about that.

I'm a Barca guy but they illegally tapped up young players, withheld tens of millions of tax revenue from the Spanish government in the Neymar deal, and they got a mere transfer ban, while Elche gets relegated over 7 million of debt. That's bullshit. I'm happy for Eibar but talk about your glaring double-standards.
 

bosox4283

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Elche's relegation is another example of a league that works for the wealthiest teams and not for anyone else.
 
Atletico owed 200M euros last year! Sure, the team brings in a lot of money, so Atleti was able to pay upwards of 80M euros last year. Still, the debt is huge, but Atletico is allowed to stay in 1st division.
 
It's a joke. At the same time, I know this joke: it's the same one repeated over and over by those running La Liga (and even those running the Spanish government). 
 

Zososoxfan

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Atleti makes a very shrewd signing and picks up 21 year old Argentine Luciano Vietto from Villareal. Vietto had 12 goals in La Liga last season and contributed to a solid campaign for the yellow submarine. I expect him to do good things at the Calderon and he should fit into the squad better than Mandzukic.
 

bosox4283

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Zososoxfan said:
Atleti makes a very shrewd signing and picks up 21 year old Argentine Luciano Vietto from Villareal. Vietto had 12 goals in La Liga last season and contributed to a solid campaign for the yellow submarine. I expect him to do good things at the Calderon and he should fit into the squad better than Mandzukic.
 
A shrewd move for Villarreal, too. They bought him just a year ago for 5.5M euros, and now have sold him for somewhere around 21M euros. Great investment. Plus, Atletico and Villarreal maintain a decent relationship, so Villarreal has picked up on loan from Atletico Leo Baptistao, a decent striker with still room to grow as a player. 
 

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Not sure if it belongs in the transfer thread or the La Liga thread, but apparently Sergio Ramos has asked out of Real. His name has been linked to De Gea and Man United as a possible piece to facilitate that deal.
 

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He'll be signing an improved contract in two weeks saying he never wanted to leave. I'd argue aside from Casillas he's Mr Real Madrid and the captain in waiting once Iker leaves.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Perez is also in a weak position.  Barcelona just won the treble and may bring in Pogba on top of that.  Meanwhile, aside from De Gea, its not clear that Real will be able to bring in any truly big players this summer.  Perez is in no position to get rid of one of their most popular players, the hero of La Decima and one of their only big Spanish players left with the departure/marginalization of Alonso and Casillas.  For Ramos,  its a perfect time to use his leverage to get a new contract, which he deserves anyway (his wages are not that high given his stature within the team).
 

Zomp

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He's also still a top 5 center back in the world (as much as I love watching him getting destroyed by Ronaldinho) and could play at a high level for another 5 years. This isn't an Ozil or Di Maria situation. I'm struggling to think of who is better right now. Maybe Alaba.
 

Zososoxfan

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Zomp said:
He's also still a top 5 center back in the world (as much as I love watching him getting destroyed by Ronaldinho) and could play at a high level for another 5 years. This isn't an Ozil or Di Maria situation. I'm struggling to think of who is better right now. Maybe Alaba.
 
Agreed that he's a top tier CB. I'd say Pique and Godin are better than Ramos too. I also don't understand what you mean by the Di Maria situation. He was perfect for that Real team and had a big part in their success. IMO, it was a big mistake to replace him with Bale. Ozil did not fit and was appropriately moved, but despite Di Maria's struggles at MANU, I don't think his situation is similar to Ozil's.
 

Zomp

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Ozil was moved to make room for Bale in the starting 11.
 
Di Maria was moved to make room for James in the starting 11. 
 
Real have arguably come out looking good in those two situations.
 
Godin may be better.  I think your Barca-bias is showing a bit with Pique (who has definitely had a renaissance this year at Barca).
 

Zososoxfan

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Zomp said:
Ozil was moved to make room for Bale in the starting 11.
 
Di Maria was moved to make room for James in the starting 11. 
 
Real have arguably come out looking good in those two situations.
 
Godin may be better.  I think your Barca-bias is showing a bit with Pique (who has definitely had a renaissance this year at Barca).
 
I guess my point is more that Di Maria's workrate was very important for RM, in that it let them play 3 up front while DM plays in the MF while still providing a legitimate attacking option going forward. In other words, I think they would be better off with DM than Bale or James (although I give props to James for offering more than he's accustomed to on defense). I'm not a fan of Ozil's game, so I certainly agree that his exit was addition by subtraction.
 
I try to stay neutral in these discussions and CB play is difficult to judge. Moreover, like all soccer players, fit with the team is important. Nevertheless, I still think Pique is a better overall player than Ramos, although it's close. Godin is a better out and out defender than either of them, but the Spaniards are both better passers, a hugely important quality for Barca and Real CBs. Thiago Silva, Chiellini, and maybe Jon Terry (ugh that's hard to type) are a cut above as well. A year ago I would've said Kompany too, but he slipped. Boateng is probably in the conversation as well. After that, there are players who had good seasons and are quality, but just haven't been as consistently as good or been around as long as these others.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I see Pique and Ramos as very similar - CBs who are exceptional with the ball at their feet and on set pieces but who aren't particularly special as pure defenders.  Hummels is another CB like this.  But those are the types of players that teams like Barcelona and Real need at the position, since they're on the front foot all the time.  For what its worth, I think Van Gaal very much wants to play this way too, which is why he has been pursuing players like Ramos and Hummels.
 
Godin for me is a lot like Terry - great positional defenders who also make very few errors and who win absolutely everything in the air that comes their way.  You don't want these guys on the ball a lot and trying to make ambitious passes forward, but that's not what teams like Chelsea and Atleti need out of the position.
 
In short, I'd say that the rank of these players is less important than how their particular skills fit into the overall tactics of their teams.
 

bosox4283

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Zososoxfan said:
Good read on Atleti's offseason here:
 
http://www.espnfc.us/spanish-primera-division/15/blog/post/2517512/atletico-madrid-will-miss-arda-turan-despite-signing-vietto
 
I agree with the assessment that the attack will be better with Vietto/Griezmann/Martinez up front without Mandzukic. The Turan loss will hurt, but with Koke, Saul, and Torres they have a good possibility of being effective.
 
Thanks for sharing this article. I had not seen it.
 
Atletico has taken a turn to youth in this offseason. In addition to the signing of Vietto (21), Atleti has just signed Yannick Ferreira Carrasco (21) from Monaco. 
 
The team's starting XI could look like this:
 
Oblak (22)
Juanfran (30) - Godin (29) - Gimenez (20) - Siqueira (29)
Vietto (21) - Koke (23) - Gabi (32) - Oliver Torres (20)
Griezmann (24) - Jackson Martinez (28)
 
The bench will include: Saul Niguez (20), Ferreira (21), Angel Correa (20).
 
So, with 9 key players under 24, there is enough youth to play Simeone's demanding style and enough youth to balance some of the team's older players (including Fernando Torres).
 

Zososoxfan

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Bartomeu won the election for Barca president yesterday. I was indifferent between him and laporta but recent success is more important than just about anything. Hopefully, he will set out to fix la masia, bring some transparency to transfers, and get Qatar foundation off the unis (in that order), but as long as Barca is bringing home approx. 3 pieces of silverware home every two seasons, no complaints will really matter.
 

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Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Barcelona losing 3-0 to Celta Vigo after 60 minutes.  I know CV has been in good form this season but...wow.
 
4-1 final. They also allowed 4 goals in UEFA and Spanish Super Cup matches. 
 

bosox4283

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Vinho Tinto said:
 
4-1 final. They also allowed 4 goals in UEFA and Spanish Super Cup matches. 
 
I just wish Atletico had played with this intensity against Barca a few weeks ago.
 
I'm not sure what the take-aways are. First, Celta looks very good through five games. Maybe that's the most important note. It seems, too, that teams bring their A-games against Barcelona. For instance, Athletic and Sevilla are struggling so far in La Liga, but they both looked fantastic against Barca in the UEFA and Spanish Super Cup matches.
 

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bosox4283 said:
First, Celta looks very good through five games. Maybe that's the most important note.
 
What stands out for me is that they are tied with Real for goals scored and Nolito is joint top goal scorer. Both of those can't last for too long, no?
 

bosox4283

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Vinho Tinto said:
 
What stands out for me is that they are tied with Real for goals scored and Nolito is joint top goal scorer. Both of those can't last for too long, no?
 
I don't know much about this Celta team, so I can't say whether or not they have the talent and depth to keep up this play. In weeks 8 and 9, Celta play Villarreal and Real Madrid, so I suppose by the end of October we'll have a sense of Celta's ability to sustain this early-season quality. At the same time, Celta has beat Sevilla and Barca, two of the La Liga's top teams, so perhaps we can say Celta is for real this year.
 
Nolito is a fantastic player. I just read that he's 28 years old, when I thought he was much younger. There were rumors that he would sign with Barcelona over the summer, and he still might return to Barca, the team where he played for a number of years. 
 

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Messi out 7-8 weeks with an ICL tear,
https://twitter.com/FCBarcelona/status/647803798509998084
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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It will be interesting to see if this story has any legs.  Accusations of corruption and favoritism, inevitably involving Madrid and Barca, regularly fly back and forth in Spain, but not often do linesmen actually come forward and actually accuse other officials of pressuring them to favor a particular team.
 

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Not La Liga but there are reports coming out that Real Madrid could be eliminated from the Copa Del Ray for fielding an ineligible player. This explanation is from reddit but seems legit:

"In last year's Copa Del Rey tie with Barcelona, Cheryshev had picked up a yellow card for a tackle on Pique which would have meant suspension from the next game. However, Villarreal got eliminated in that tie and Chersyhev arrived at Real Madrid. However, the suspension on a player stays and Real Madrid did not pay any heed to this. They have fielded Chersyhev today and this amounts to fielding an ineligible player which is punishable by elimination of the team from Copa Del Rey (happened last year to Osasuna and to Benitez' Valencia in 2001-02) Cadiz' present has said that he will appeal and this would mean that Real Madrid is crashing out of the Copa Del Rey tonight."

Luv it
 

bosox4283

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Not La Liga but there are reports coming out that Real Madrid could be eliminated from the Copa Del Ray for fielding an ineligible player. This explanation is from reddit but seems legit:

"In last year's Copa Del Rey tie with Barcelona, Cheryshev had picked up a yellow card for a tackle on Pique which would have meant suspension from the next game. However, Villarreal got eliminated in that tie and Chersyhev arrived at Real Madrid. However, the suspension on a player stays and Real Madrid did not pay any heed to this. They have fielded Chersyhev today and this amounts to fielding an ineligible player which is punishable by elimination of the team from Copa Del Rey (happened last year to Osasuna and to Benitez' Valencia in 2001-02) Cadiz' present has said that he will appeal and this would mean that Real Madrid is crashing out of the Copa Del Rey tonight."

Luv it
It's hilarious, and so was Florentino Perez's press conference in which he claimed innocence.
 

bosox4283

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And Real Madrid is out of La Copa del Rey.

Pique is my season MVP for his tweet with the crying laughing faces. Never change, Pique.
 

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I don't know how management at RM works, but after underperforming for years (excepting la Decima and 1-2 Liga titles), Perez should be out.
 

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Also Gary Neville has been hired as the caretaker manager for Valencia until the end of the season. I hope he does well but a part of me hopes he returns to punditry ASAP as he's the best in the game...
 

bosox4283

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I don't know how management at RM works, but after underperforming for years (excepting la Decima and 1-2 Liga titles), Perez should be out.
As the Atletico fan here, I'd like to point out that Perez was about 90 seconds away from not winning the "Decima". Perez should build Sergio Ramos a goddamn statue.
 

SoxFanInCali

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California. Duh.
Also Gary Neville has been hired as the caretaker manager for Valencia until the end of the season. I hope he does well but a part of me hopes he returns to punditry ASAP as he's the best in the game...
I read one story that said that his brother Phil probably would have gotten the job, but he didn't have all the necessary coaching badges. Gary has them already through his time working with England.
 

bosox4283

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You're fast.

What a mess of a team. If I were a fan, I'd be upset with Florentino Perez, the current president. The handling of Ancelotti was an embarrassment, and now Perez seems poised to fire Benitez at the half-way mark when the problem has more to do with team composition than coaching.
 

Zososoxfan

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You're fast.

What a mess of a team. If I were a fan, I'd be upset with Florentino Perez, the current president. The handling of Ancelotti was an embarrassment, and now Perez seems poised to fire Benitez at the half-way mark when the problem has more to do with team composition than coaching.
QFT. Maybe Zidane will bring a certain gravitas and be able to stand up to Perez. For the past X years, Madrid has been using the 'galacticos' formula, but with much worse results than the previous incarnation.
 

blueguitar322

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For the past X years, Madrid has been using the 'galacticos' formula, but with much worse results than the previous incarnation.
To be fair, it did win them a Champions League a year ago.

I have absolutely zero comprehension of what it would be like to be a Real Madrid fan. Your team fires one of the better coaches alive in Ancelotti, hires someone with a somewhat worse but not terrible resume (Benitez) and then fires him after less than five months of meaningful games, only to hire someone who was a helluva player but has a grand total of 18 months of head coaching experience, all at the third-tier level. And the President of the club does all of this ostensibly to please you, the fickle and impatient fan.
 
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Maybe Zidane's just a caretaker until they can lure away Guardiola or Mourinho. It's not like they're going to disappoint or insult Zizou by tossing him aside after half a season, his career and reputation are pretty inextricably tied to Real.
 

bosox4283

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Maybe Zidane's just a caretaker until they can lure away Guardiola or Mourinho. It's not like they're going to disappoint or insult Zizou by tossing him aside after half a season, his career and reputation are pretty inextricably tied to Real.
Guardiola will never coach Real Madrid. Guardiola, in addition to playing almost his entire playing career at Barcelona, is a Catalan nationalist. That is, he wants Cataluyna to secede from Spain and become its own country, an idea that (I'm assuming) most residents of Madrid do not share.

It is interesting, though, to consider what happens if Zidane fails. Ancelotti has signed for a few years at Bayern, Guardiola and Simeone won't coach Madrid, and it seems that Mourinho has burned that bridge. Does Quique Sanchez Flores, currently of Watford, get a shot? Flores did play at Madrid for two years in the 90s.
 
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bosox4283

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Just read a tweet that Ronaldo has 25 goals this year, with 6 coming from penalty kicks. Of the 25 goals, 6 against Malmo, 5 against Espanyol, and 5 against Shakhtar. I wonder how much of a problem Ronaldo has become for the team.