Langford or Nesmith: Who's the better long-term fit?

Which wing is the better long-term fit for the Celtics?

  • Keep Langford

    Votes: 43 39.1%
  • Keep Nesmith

    Votes: 67 60.9%

  • Total voters
    110

DGreenwood

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Aaron Nesmith and Romeo Langford are two of the Celtics more valuable trade chips (outside of the untouchables). If Ainge decides he wants to hold on to one of them but is willing to move the other in a trade, which would you prefer to see him keep? They were each 14th overall picks in back-to-back drafts and they're both wings. They're the same age (born nine days apart) but Romeo has one less year remaining on his rookie contract.

Romeo’s strengths are as a defender, a slasher, and he’s a decent ball handler. He seems to be the better athlete. I thought he looked comfortable with the speed of the game in the NBA last year. The questions for Romeo are whether he can stay healthy and if he’ll develop a shot.

Nesmith’s one perceived strength is three-point shooting. Everything else is the question mark. He doesn’t seem as comfortable with the speed of the game as Romeo. It looks like Aaron thinks he needs to go 110% to keep up so he’s out of control at times.

I’m conflicted because I think Romeo may develop into the better all-around wing, but Nesmith’s strength may be a better fit for what the Celtics need to help the Jays.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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In a league where shooting is king, I'm taking the guy who can shoot over the guy who can't 10 times out of 10. I agree with your assessments, but I think Nesmith's potential as a high volume, high percentage, quick release sniper from deep is ultimately more valuable than Langford's potential as a plus defender and plus slasher. It also helps that Nesmith has decent size and athleticism so there is potential for him to become a decent, if not plus, defender himself down the line. I'm not super confident in Romeo's ability to develop a reliable three point shot.
 

Devizier

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I think both project to be marginal rotation players, but Naismith's one plus skill is easier to imagine playing in the NBA.

Feel free to throw this in my face when one or both ends up being a good/great player, probably for the Lakers.
 

Average Game James

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I said Nesmith - I agree entirely with LTP that in today's NBA shooting is really more valuable than any other skill. But I think the question for DA in trade discussion will not come down to trading Romeo or Nesmith, but rather Romeo+ or Nesmith, if only because of the former's contract status and injury concerns.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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It depends on the future roster composition, but in a Jaylen/Tatum/Smart core, Nesmith is the better fit and has the clearer path to reaching his full potential here, but it's because his skillset is more limited and he 'only' needs to be a great shooter.

Romeo's ceiling would ostensibly be similar to Smart's role as secondary ball handler and defensive Swiss Army knife. But with Tatum/Brown taking on a lot of the offensive initiation moving forward, his looks on offense figure to come from kickouts and the like, which aren't his strong suit right now.

That said, he's pretty interesting as a backcourt partner off the bench with PP, TL, and whatever other mix of players. I just don't know if he will get that opportunity to optimize his skillset without significant improvement in his shooting. If he somehow comes back draining threes, that's a different story, as he then becomes REALLY interesting in lineups with Smart and the Jays (like, death lineup potential that they just haven't had yet).

Edit: I do still ride pretty hard for Romeo though, and really hope he gets his chance this year.
 

bigq

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Neither has even 400 minutes played so impossible to say at this point which is the better long term fit. One more year of cost control for Nesmith so he gets my vote.
 
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HowBoutDemSox

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It depends on the future roster composition, but in a Jaylen/Tatum/Smart core, Nesmith is the better fit and has the clearer path to reaching his full potential here, but it's because his skillset is more limited and he 'only' needs to be a great shooter.

Romeo's ceiling would ostensibly be similar to Smart's role as secondary ball handler and defensive Swiss Army knife. But with Tatum/Brown taking on a lot of the offensive initiation moving forward, his looks on offense figure to come from kickouts and the like, which aren't his strong suit right now.

That said, he's pretty interesting as a backcourt partner off the bench with PP, TL, and whatever other mix of players. I just don't know if he will get that opportunity to optimize his skillset without significant improvement in his shooting. If he somehow comes back draining threes, that's a different story, as he then becomes REALLY interesting in lineups with Smart and the Jays (like, death lineup potential that they just haven't had yet).
This is where I'm at. Langford's best way to live up to his draft potential is someone who needs the ball in his hand to create in the pick and roll, but most of the time one or both of Jaylen and Jayson will be on the court and it's usually better when they're initiating. Maybe he becomes a poor man's version of OKC Harden where he's the spark off the bench, but it's much easier to see Nesmith as a sniper that can play off ball while out there with Tatum and Brown.

Of course, it'll be more about which one gets closer to their higher end projection; if Nesmith is shooting 35% on 3's on low volume while Langford becomes the a perennial 6th man of the year candidate, that's a different story. But in most plausible scenarios, Nesmith's skillset works best with the Jays, especially since I'm generally bullish on his defense; he's got length and athleticism enough to be average there, and his mechanics are weird enough that if he can get those sorted out, he can use his other tools to be a plus defender.
 

Cellar-Door

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I think generally if the question is which I keep when trading, the answer is Romeo because I think Nesmith has more value in the market, and I want the best player I can get from the trade.

As to just in a vacuum... they are pretty different.
Romeo appeals to me a bit more perhaps in that he has a couple of the skills I see as indicative of a potential breakout...
1. He's a really good athlete
2. He defended very well for a rookie
3. He drew a lot of fouls, and FTr is often a good indicator of a guy who is winning at the point of attack.

Nesmith has the plus shooting potential, and that makes him more likely to be a valuable bench guy, but given how small Romeo's sample from 3 was, if he's just a below average 30-34% shooter, he has potential to be very good. I think there's a case for trying to teach a guy who can get to the rim and defend how to hit jumpers being a better task than trying to find a way to take a shooter and make him a more rounded player.

On the other hand that type of player isn't the best fit with a team that already has a lot of ball-dominant players, so maybe you lean Nesmith as the lower ceiling but better fit and cheaper long-term option.
 

Buck Showalter

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Neither had even 400 minutes played so impossible to say at this point which is the better long term fit. One more year of cost control for Nesmith so he gets my vote.
I agree with this.

FWIW - for all the hype about Nesmith's shooting - he hasn't really shown the ability to stick the 3 early-on.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I think both work well with the Jays. It would largely depend on the other 2 guys on the court. I think Nesmith is a better fit for the current C's team, I'm not sure he's a better fit with the Jays.
 

BigSoxFan

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I’m going Nesmith due to the shooting profile. The Jay’s will always command a lot of attention so having a knockdown shooter, and I still expect him to become one, will be quite valuable. Romeo has a place in this league if he stays healthy but I’m less optimistic about his shooting than most.

Ultimately, I feel like we’re heading down a Joe Johnson/Kedrick Brown path where we keep one and trade the other.
 

Bernie Carbohydrate

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If we pull off our green-tinted glasses, is Romeo an "asset?" He's a former #14 pick who has played 32 out of a possible 126 games. He can't shoot. He's 6'4" so his defensive potential is limited to shutting down other smallish guards.

He's worth a roster spot as a lottery ticket who might turn into something, but would another NBA team give up anything of value? He seems like mini-Yabusele, with an upside of Young Jeff Teague.
 

Cellar-Door

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If we pull off our green-tinted glasses, is Romeo an "asset?" He's a former #14 pick who has played 32 out of a possible 126 games. He can't shoot. He's 6'4" so his defensive potential is limited to shutting down other smallish guards.

He's worth a roster spot as a lottery ticket who might turn into something, but would another NBA team give up anything of value? He seems like mini-Yabusele, with an upside of Young Jeff Teague.
He's 6'6" with a 6'11" wingspan and an 8'7" standing reach, he's got plenty of size to defend wings he's basically the exact same size as Jaylen Brown. He was a top prospect and a mid-1st pick, yes the injuries may take some shine off, but at the same time, there is a lot of upside and teams that think his stroke is okay aren't going to write him off as "can't shoot" based on less than 30 3PA, especially when the FT% is decent. He has value, Nesmith probably has more because he's in year 1 vs. 2, but Romeo probably hasn't significantly hurt his value.

Edit- and since he hasn't had a catastrophic injury teams aren't likely to ding him too much, there's been plenty of recent evidence of guys who miss time with injuries late in college, and/or early in the NBA and then come back and show the kind of talent that made them top prospects in college, MPJ is an obvious example.
 

tbrown_01923

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I like langford. I like him as a defender and someone who can finish on the break and off cuts. I am not squinting to see that - he had that last year. Question is whether he can get to 35% on 3s - but don't most folks who put in the work eventually get good enough?
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think both work well with the Jays. It would largely depend on the other 2 guys on the court. I think Nesmith is a better fit for the current C's team, I'm not sure he's a better fit with the Jays.
Yeah, each of their skill sets if/when developed can be utilized in a specific role. It will be interesting to see how close Romeo is to contributing once he returns if he’s close at all.
 

BigSoxFan

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I like langford. I like him as a defender and someone who can finish on the break and off cuts. I am not squinting to see that - he had that last year. Question is whether he can get to 35% on 3s - but don't most folks who put in the work eventually get good enough?
I fully expect improvements if he really dedicates himself to it. Simple reality is that defense has to be his calling card. Smart is a career 37% shooter and 31% from 3 but we don't really care because his defense is so good. I don't see any reason why Romeo can't get to low-to-mid 30s from 3 on low volume while playing very good defense. If I were another GM, he's a guy I'd be looking to steal from Ainge. Obviously, Ainge is too savvy for that but I bet GMs have tried.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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AN's 60th percentile outcome fits better than RL's 60th percentile outcome, but RL's 90th percentile outcome is in a lot of ways exactly what this team needs: an additional PnR creator who can guard 1 to 3 and sometimes 4.

However, we'll never know where RL is at until he gets on the court and if I were GM, I'd definitely be afraid on selling low assuming we're seeing some organic growth on the practice court. Four important parts to this thinking:
  1. RL showed some really good on-ball defense and I assume the Cs know how good defensively he can be. The Cs are lacking guys who can keep quick smalls in front of them and perhaps Romeo can be that guy.
  2. IIRC, RL was really high in the PnR situations in college. He knows how to handle the ball, we know he can get to the rim and score, and both of those are really important in today's NBA.
  3. Shooting, as has been mentioned several times here, is one skill that can be learned if the work is put in.
  4. He's young but certainly has NBA athleticism both in terms of quickness and quickness of his feet, which is also something the Cs lack at the guard spot.
Really eager to see him back on the court.
 

BigSoxFan

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I like Romeo's potential, but I don't see him having any value until trading deadline next season at best
His value is certainly (hopefully) at a low point but he has some value. He’s already demonstrated he can play defense. He’s only 21.5 years-old and has multiple years of control at modest money. He’s a good athlete

There is some value there. It’s just not where we need it to make the moves we all want to make. But it’s not like he’s salary filler either.

Due to all of the above, as you mention, he’s a clear hold to me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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IMO the # of observations is too small. I literally have almost no data to answer the question with any degree of certainty..
The most likely outcome is that neither of them fit the team that well and they'll be lucky to have careers as good as Terrence Ross. Ross isn't a bad player but he also doesn't really move the needle much. And that is the good outcome.
 

pjheff

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I don’t think either is a “more valuable trade chip” right now. Nesmith is the better fit due to his shooting potential. Langford has both the higher ceiling and the lower floor. If the question is which one I’d rather keep, the answer is Langford. He has the better pedigree, looked like he belonged in a way that has largely eluded Nesmith, and should be able to fix the broken parts of his game.
 

Mugsy's Jock

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I voted Romeo because I thought a D stopper was a useful asset and he could grow into being a serviceable Marcus back-up... but on reading the thread after I voted I'm convinced I was wrong. Shooting is king, and Romeo is probably relatively easily replaceable.

So I changed my vote.
 

Koufax

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I voted Romeo because AN's supposedly great shooting has yet to show itself on an NBA floor. I'm a tad skeptical.
 

BigSoxFan

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I voted Romeo because AN's supposedly great shooting has yet to show itself on an NBA floor. I'm a tad skeptical.
He's shooting 35.4% from 3 on low volume (fewer than 50 attempts). Why are you skeptical? Khris Middleton was 31% his first year (14-45). Nesmith is 17-48. 2 of those rim outs go down and he's at 40% and looking the part, no?
 

Cesar Crespo

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He's shooting 35.4% from 3 on low volume (fewer than 50 attempts). Why are you skeptical? Khris Middleton was 31% his first year (14-45). Nesmith is 17-48. 2 of those rim outs go down and he's at 40% and looking the part, no?
His 35.4% is heavily inflated by some garbage time.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Who cares? The entire point is that the sample size is way too small to be skeptical of his shooting abilities.
Koufax cares. Also, watching the games, Nesmith doesn't look the part, at all.


It's way too early to do so, but if one were to do so... Romeo and Nesmith are looking like busts. If they were on other teams, they would be scrubs no one talks about or be labeled bad picks. Even if it is entirely too early.
 

BigSoxFan

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Koufax cares. Also, watching the games, Nesmith doesn't look the part, at all.


It's way too early to do so, but if one were to do so... Romeo and Nesmith are looking like busts. If they were on other teams, they would be scrubs no one talks about or be labeled bad picks. Even if it is entirely too early.
So, you're making the argument that you don't like Nesmith's form? The results obviously haven't been great but he is clearly a talented shooter based on his college work. Sometimes the results just aren't there, for a variety of reasons. It looks clear to me that he is rushing and the game is moving way too fast for him.
 

Cesar Crespo

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So, you're making the argument that you don't like Nesmith's form? The results obviously haven't been great but he is clearly a talented shooter based on his college work. Sometimes the results just aren't there, for a variety of reasons. It looks clear to me that he is rushing and the game is moving way too fast for him.
HIs form is great. Craig Hodges was a great 3 point shooter too. Yet he couldn't play in an NBA game.

Hell, Hodges was allowed to compete in the 3 point contest despite not even being in the league.

Well, later on in his career. Early on, Hodges was good. So bad example. A pretty 3 point shot isn't enough though.
 

Cellar-Door

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So, you're making the argument that you don't like Nesmith's form? The results obviously haven't been great but he is clearly a talented shooter based on his college work. Sometimes the results just aren't there, for a variety of reasons. It looks clear to me that he is rushing and the game is moving way too fast for him.
One note... his college work was really only 1 year, his first year he wasn't anything special as a shooter. His rep is pretty heavily based on 2 months of work, mostly against some bad mid-majors.
 

Saints Rest

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I prefer Romeo for this team.

While I see AN as potentially getting to Duncan Robinson as his ceiling, I think that need is reduced in a world where Payton is shooting 40% from 3.

OTOH, as mentioned above, the Celts really need another someone who can guard quick wings. I think if the Jays are going to continue to ascend, they can't continually be expected to guard all the star wings all the time.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Fact of the matter is, Aaron Nesmith isn't good enough to get on the basketball court and Langford is a year and half into his NBA career and has less than 400 minutes played. If they were on other teams, we would not be trying to trade for them. We would be making posts about how the Knicks wasted a pick on AN instead of Toppin.
 

BigSoxFan

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One note... his college work was really only 1 year, his first year he wasn't anything special as a shooter. His rep is pretty heavily based on 2 months of work, mostly against some bad mid-majors.
Yes, but I have family who went to Vandy. I watched a ton of his games last year. He's a good shooter and I would be willing to bet that he'll eventually get there at the NBA level, even if this year is looking unlikely. I'm far more concerned about the other aspects of his game. The shooting? He'll be fine.
 

Humphrey

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Availability is an 'ability,' and Romeo lacks it.
I like Romeo's potential, but I don't see him having any value until trading deadline next season at best
I think you're talking next January for both of them; unless in the interim Romeo breaks down again; in which case at that point I'd like to see done w/him what many Pats fans want done with Harry.
 

reggiecleveland

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His 35.4% is heavily inflated by some garbage time.
That'a as meaningless as (insert name of good shooter) who had a bad rookie years. Pedroia started out hitting under .200, so did Casar Crespo.

Neither guy has played enough for me to answer this question.
Gun to my head, in today's NBA, I pick the guy many called "best shooter in the draft".
 

DGreenwood

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A lot of people seem to feel that Romeo has done nothing with his first year and a half because of injuries. I don't believe that's true. He didn't play a lot last year but he had something close to a normal rookie developmental year (especially for being on a competitive playoff team). The Celtics were practicing more often last year and Romeo was making an impression. There were rumors coming out of those practices that he was the best on-ball defender on the team. Steven's had enough confidence in him that his season ending injury happened when he came into game 2 of the ECF half way through the first quarter. He wasn't coming into that game (and that early) to help his development, he was coming in because Brad thought he could help them win the game and even the series.

And a right wrist injury obviously isn't ideal for a right handed wing who needs to improve his shot, but there can be a lot of benefit that comes out of taking a young wing with a game built around ball handling, slashing, and finishing at the rim, and making him do every basketball workout left handed for several months.
 
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DGreenwood

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Neither guy has played enough for me to answer this question.
That's part of what makes this interesting, if we knew more about these players it starts to become an easier call. Ainge is in a position where he may need to answer this question over the next six months despite the fact that he hasn't seen either play a lot of minutes. Now Ainge has a lot more info than we do based off what the coaches are seeing behind the scenes, so that should help him.
 
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Cesar Crespo

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That'a as meaningless as (insert name of good shooter) who had a bad rookie years. Pedroia started out hitting under .200, so did Casar Crespo.

Neither guy has played enough for me to answer this question.
Gun to my head, in today's NBA, I pick the guy many called "best shooter in the draft".
Sure, but he brought the stat up in the first place.
 

BigSoxFan

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Sure, but he brought the stat up in the first place.
Yes, I did. And you somehow want to draw preliminary conclusions from a sample size of less than 50 (or even less if we're discounting garbage time, for some reason). I'm confident in my analysis of Nesmith's shooting capabilities. We'll see who's right.
 

DannyDarwinism

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That'a as meaningless as (insert name of good shooter) who had a bad rookie years. Pedroia started out hitting under .200, so did Casar Crespo.

Neither guy has played enough for me to answer this question.
Gun to my head, in today's NBA, I pick the guy many called "best shooter in the draft".
I wanted Bane too, but that ship has sailed.

(kidding, but I agree with your overall point. And with Cellar Door’s that if there’s reason to be skeptical about his shooting, it’s that it’s mostly based off of small, out of conference sample, rather than anything he’s done this year)
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yes, I did. And you somehow want to draw preliminary conclusions from a sample size of less than 50 (or even less if we're discounting garbage time, for some reason). I'm confident in my analysis of Nesmith's shooting capabilities. We'll see who's right.
Lol, No I don't. Proof? Learn to read, maybe.

I like both AN and RL. Fact is, if they were on other teams, people would think much lower of them.
 

BigSoxFan

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Lol, No I don't. Proof? Learn to read, maybe.

I like both AN and RL. Fact is, if they were on other teams, people would think much lower of them.
You wrote this:

"Koufax cares. Also, watching the games, Nesmith doesn't look the part, at all."

I interpreted that to mean you don't think he looks the part of a good shooter, which is what Koufax and I were originally discussing since Koufax is skeptical based on the limited sample size we've seen. If you were referring to AN as an overall player, sure. If you don't think he looks the part of a good shooter, then I obviously disagree.
 

Cellar-Door

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That'a as meaningless as (insert name of good shooter) who had a bad rookie years. Pedroia started out hitting under .200, so did Casar Crespo.

Neither guy has played enough for me to answer this question.
Gun to my head, in today's NBA, I pick the guy many called "best shooter in the draft".
Sure, but.... that was based on tiny samples too.

If we're being honest, there isn't really any evidence either way about what type of shooter Nesmith will be, other than that he's unlikely to be a TERRIBLE shooter. He could end up anywhere between 33 and 42 and nobody would be surprised.
 

Cesar Crespo

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You wrote this:

"Koufax cares. Also, watching the games, Nesmith doesn't look the part, at all."

I interpreted that to mean you don't think he looks the part of a good shooter, which is what Koufax and I were originally discussing since Koufax is skeptical based on the limited sample size we've seen. If you were referring to AN as an overall player, sure. If you don't think he looks the part of a good shooter, then I obviously disagree.
Has he looked the part? He has not. It doesn't mean he won't. When he's been out there in meaningful minutes, he's looked passive and gun shy. He looked better on defense. He has not been good to date. That doesn't mean anything in the long term.
 

BigSoxFan

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Has he looked the part? He has not. It doesn't mean he won't. When he's been out there in meaningful minutes, he's looked passive and gun shy. He looked better on defense. He has not been good to date. That doesn't mean anything in the long term.
I'm looking at him purely from a shooting standpoint. I agree with the consensus on his overall game. I think his form looks good but I see a shooter who is rushing and not getting his feet set at times. We'll know more about him once he settles down, which I don't anticipate to be until next year. I remain quite bullish on him. I won't begrudge anyone for not being as bullish as I am. I admittedly have a Vandy connection and bias there but he was electric last year. He played very well against Auburn, for instance, where he was guarded by Okoro for some of the game. I really hope he develops into that guy at the NBA level (obviously 52% ain't happening but low 40 to mid 40s is certainly within reach). But, there is always the risk of an RJ Hunter situation. I'm less concerned about that with Nesmith due to his body type.
 

Koufax

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I root for both of them and hope they both flourish on the Celtics. But if I had to choose one right now, I'd choose the guy who seems to be a solid defender rather than a guy who, while promising, hasn't shown anything solid at the NBA level other than energy on defense, which I admire.