Serious question: If Bird was in today's NBA, what kind of scorer would he be? Last 8 seasons of his career, he was a .398 shooter from three, and a .906 shooter from the line. I get that defensively he'd have problems, but I'm just thinking about Bird on the offensive end. Would he be putting up 40 points fairly regularly? I imagine he'd average around 30 without too much difficulty.
Considering that Birds 50point games included just a handful of threes (sorry can’t find link) and his ability to finish in the paint, it’s hard not to imagine him being dominant offensively.
He'd probably be something like Kevin Durant.. less explosive, better passer, but just an ridiculously efficient scorer from anywhere on the court.
I'd like to think Bird would be some combination of Luka/Jokic. He'd definitely play mostly the 4/5 and wouldn't really be a wing.
Yeah, I don't think Bird would be a primary ball-handler that is running a million pick-and-rolls. I'd see him more as a guy doing a lot of pick-and-pops as the screener and playmaking from the elbows.
I think Bird in today's game would be remarkably similar to James Harden. A guy who can drop 30+, grab a dozen rebounds, or hand out 15 assists on a regular basis.
How dare you compare my favorite player all-time with my least favorite player all-time
I don't see it at all.
Caveat I never saw Bird play and also caveat that assists aren't everything but is he really a better passer than Jokic? Bird's all time best ast% was like 29, Jokic is at 44% this year.
I don't think he'd get that level of assists, he was a good and willing passer, not a maestro like Jokic, he didn't hit 30% AST rate a single time in his career, and some of his AST raw numbers are a product of pace.
He was much more than a good and willing passer. He had elite court vision and anticipation. We can argue about whether he’s at Jokic’s level but he was , for example, half a notch better than LeBron as a passer.
He was a better passer than Jokic and it isn't all that close---the difference is that the Celtics didn't run the offense through him while Denver does. I'm a huge Jokic fan, but what Bird did without being a primary ballhandler is pretty mcuh unprecedented, and that's because of how exceptional he was at creating in the times he did have the ball.
This comment is so spot on. It should be the auto-reply to every comment in this thread asking about his passing. Here are some of his incredible passes.
This is key. He played a ton of minutes, the schedule had a lot of back-to-backs and I can't imagine travel was as comfortable as it is now. Famously he had his career cut short by some debilitating injuries, but I think he'd probably be even better early on if he had gotten modern amounts of rest and had easy access to the best doctors and physical therapists. Of course everyone does now, but I think it would benefit Bird more than some other guys.
I never saw Bird play live but couldn’t your argument against him being similar to Jokic be applied to Luka as well?
That's always been my general impression as well (and it will be interesting to see how they rank career-wise. If Durant wins another MVP and another title, they'll be awfully close), but is Durant really a better defender? I barely remember watching Bird play live, but I know he made the all-defense team 3x (2nd team, but still) and in his prime averaged just under 2 steals and 1 block per game. Durant has never made an all-defense team and never averaged over 1.4 steals per game. Maybe Bird's selections were reputation based, but I can't say.
People tend to rate defenders by on-ball ability. KD can cover guards and wings pretty efficiently because he's so long. Bird couldn't because his length wasn't enough to make up for his stiffness (compared to KD). I'm the biggest Bird fan in the world, but KD is better at manning up a wider variety of guys.
I think it's really hard to compare because they played defense so differently in those two eras. The current NBA allows, and rewards, really sophisticated help defense that would have been illegal when Bird played. Bird was a limited athlete, but great at jumping into passing lanes for steals. He benefitted from playing with really good defensive players around him. Durant at his peak was a defensive monster, though; a guy who could switch at least 1-4, while also providing a decent level of rim protection. Similar to Tatum but longer. His man to man defense was maybe average to above average (I'd say worse than Tatum), but it was his defensive versatility that made him so valuable. Bird, if he played today, couldn't do that.
I get the numbers comparison, but their games are not anywhere near each other
To add to this, Bird led the NBA in defensive win shares (a stat, incidentally, that Tatum leads the league in this year) four times in his first seven seasons, and was in the top 6 in the league each of his first eight years. He had preternatural anticipation and was a great ball hawk and defensive rebounder. Durant is no slouch (top 11 in defensive win shares five times in his career), but I think Bird certainly was comparable if not better.
People underestimate his defense because he was unathletic. But what he did well, he did REALLY well. His court vision let him play defense like a free safety. He was amazing at off ball steals and play disruption.
It should be noted defensive win shares (at least the one I am familiar with) is purely a function of the team's defense during the player's minutes on the floor. It doesn't try to disaggregate according to teammate contributions.
Someone say preternatural anticipation and amazing at off the ball steals?
I don't know. Pre broken foot, McHale generally guarded the better forward on the other team. And he was so dominant in the post that he could do it today. And he even flashed a little ability to hit the three, so he would have had that.
