Least Favorite Red Sox Heroes

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
972
My father hated George Scott because he struck out too much and didn't put the ball in play. I hate Lugo because he played so well in Tampa and not here. Some of those guys in the late 60's and early 70's were pretty bad ~ Mike Andrews comes to mind. I don't hate ball players for their politics, but their attitude or inabilities.
Do you realize how much the game has changed- Scott averaged 113 strikeouts per 162 game season....a lot then but clearly middle-of-the-road today (heck, Mike Trout averages 151!)?
But I'd hate Scott and Red Sox management for another reason- (1) He was clearly on the heavy side when he played here, had an up-and-down performance; and they traded him (2) He went to the Brewers and looked GOOD in those tight unis of the 70s and played well (3) The Sox got him back in a horrible deal and he got fat again.
 

donutogre

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
2,065
Philadelphia
I don't look at Schilling for his political views(Which I mostly disagree with but it's free speech) He was always a great pitcher and a better postseason one, it was because he was such an egomaniac and thought everyone wanted his opinion on everything. It began with the Steroid when he was there speaking, March 2005 and he wasn't even accused. Why are you are on there Curt? Just because you think everyone wants you opinion. Then he signed a one year deal after 07 for 08, retired then took the money of course. Then the Rhode Island debacle.
For sure... I didn't hate on him for his politics in 2004 when he was supporting W. I get it, people have different views. But the stuff he's done since then is a lot different than sanely expressing a different political opinion to the one I have.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,250
Maine
For sure... I didn't hate on him for his politics in 2004 when he was supporting W. I get it, people have different views. But the stuff he's done since then is a lot different than sanely expressing a different political opinion to the one I have.
Yeah, he doesn't get fired from ESPN for being a vocal Republican and supporting W in 2004. The stuff that did get him fired from ESPN is a bridge too far in the sense of just having different points of view.
 

jose melendez

Earl of Acie
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2003
22,355
Washington DC
For sure... I didn't hate on him for his politics in 2004 when he was supporting W. I get it, people have different views. But the stuff he's done since then is a lot different than sanely expressing a different political opinion to the one I have.
Yup. I wished he'd kept his mouth shut in 2004 (though he of course had the right to speak), but it didn't keep me from being a big fan of his. The stuff now is different.
 

jose melendez

Earl of Acie
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 23, 2003
22,355
Washington DC
I thought we were sticking to guys from the championship teams but, in that case, Roger Clemens. I love the loud mouthed, hard throwing Texas asshole archetype, it’s why I loved Beckett so much, but holy shit Roger is a terrible human being.
Nope. Any Red Sox hero is fine. Red Sox non-heroes like Wil Cordero are not of interest.
 

Seels

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
3,096
NH
I never liked Gomes either. Honestly I don't like really any of the old Rays that the Sox signed -- Lugo, Price, Crawford, Gomes, fuck them all.
 

biollante

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Nov 22, 2001
8,835
Land formerly of Sowheag
I never hated Mike Andrews as a person. (I don't know him) I just didn't like him as a baseball player when I was a kid. As a kid, it was pretty clear that he couldn't hit that well.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,250
Maine
I never hated Mike Andrews as a person. (I don't know him) I just didn't like him as a baseball player when I was a kid. As a kid, it was pretty clear that he couldn't hit that well.
In 4+ years with the Red Sox, he slashed .268/.360/.385 for a 108 OPS+. Methinks you as a child didn't judge hitters very well. Not a ton of power (few middle infielders had it back then) but he hit double digit HRs in three different seasons. After the Red Sox traded him (for Luis Aparicio), he had one good season then fell off a cliff due to injuries and was out of the game two years later.
 

LostinNJ

lurker
Jul 19, 2005
444
Not heroes, but the two guys who earned my wrath over the years were Lou Gorman for drafting Tom Fischer in the first round in 1988 (12th pick!) because his uncle was the pitching coach (could have had Tino Martinez, Charles Nagy, Rico Brogna, Arthur Rhodes), and Haywood Sullivan for putting his son Marc on the major league roster. These moves showed total contempt for the fans. At last Schilling was trying to win.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
6,270
I never liked Gomes either. Honestly I don't like really any of the old Rays that the Sox signed -- Lugo, Price, Crawford, Gomes, fuck them all.
Kevin Cash was alright in my book.

I think it's because I came in late to the party and freely admit that I likely would feel differently if I hadn't, but...

Nomar Garciaparra. He became, to me, synonymous with first-pitch outs, usually pop-ups, and the guy who would pout when he made a throwing error. The sullen demeanor near the end, the in-the-box histrionics, etc. just made it difficult to appreciate what he could do. I'm sad his career trajectory was sidetrack by that HBP but I just never cared for Nomar the player/public face.
 

brs3

sings praises of pinstripes
SoSH Member
May 20, 2008
4,932
Jackson Heights, NYC
David Price, Beckett, Lackey & JD Drew were absolved of their past and future sins with World Series titles. I don't make the rules, but generally my hate doesn't linger when someone has a significant part in my sports happiness. I was a big, big, Price & Drew hater. Not anymore. Jose Offerman was probably the first Red Sox player I really hated from day one..and entirely because of the replacing-Vaughn's-OBP statement.

Schilling & Manny were post-Red Sox career disappointments and muddle the joy they both brought to me. The Manny stuff less bothersome over time. The Schilling stuff just isn't forgivable and that's fine, I don't need to defend my decision to hate him. I try to not learn much about the opinions of players or their personal lives because there will always undoubtedly be something I don't like or find disappointing.

The ownerships PR team is my least favorite. They're great at maximizing the media to help drive players out(or make it easier to let someone go), and it's disappointing the general fanbase so easily eats it up. Manny was a primadonna?! This is shocking? He was terrible to work with? That's a surprise?! Rinse and repeat(with minor changes to reasons) for every player, including Mookie Betts.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,250
Maine
I have to ask, what "sins" did JD Drew ever commit (particularly with the Red Sox)? I get the dislike for guys who were assholes on occasion like Price, Beckett, and Lackey. Drew was quiet, reserved, and by all accounts a decent guy. The only thing remotely controversial that I can see is he always made sure to maximize his value at every opportunity...holding out in the draft, opting out of his Dodger deal for the Sox, etc. Hard to hold that sort of thing against a guy, given how fleeting a career can be.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
6,270
People didn't like Drew because he didn't appear to try hard, never reacted when he failed in a big spot, and didn't seem to have the visible passion for the game that so many others did. He was just a quiet professional and did everything smoothly, so nothing stood out. Fans didn't like his icy demeanor and it was compounded with his struggles at the plate in 2007. I think people were fine with him after that.
 

BornToRun

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 4, 2011
13,111
I have to ask, what "sins" did JD Drew ever commit (particularly with the Red Sox)? I get the dislike for guys who were assholes on occasion like Price, Beckett, and Lackey. Drew was quiet, reserved, and by all accounts a decent guy. The only thing remotely controversial that I can see is he always made sure to maximize his value at every opportunity...holding out in the draft, opting out of his Dodger deal for the Sox, etc. Hard to hold that sort of thing against a guy, given how fleeting a career can be.
His sins were looking like he didn’t give a shit. That was always the knock on him. For the record, I agree with you.
 

LoweTek

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 30, 2005
1,668
Central Florida
I can't really decide my pick but Rice could be it. I can also tell you Mike Andrews is a gentleman of high status. I think the poster was comparing Andrews' BIP struggles and Ks to George Scott. I sat and chatted with George Scott one day not long before he passed. He was huge, BTW, maybe 450 plus. Early in his career Scott was a great defensive 1B. He made some plays that looked impossible. Hard to hate him though. Nice guy just not the brightest bulb.
 

Minneapolis Millers

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,170
Twin Cities
Do you realize how much the game has changed- Scott averaged 113 strikeouts per 162 game season....a lot then but clearly middle-of-the-road today (heck, Mike Trout averages 151!)?
But I'd hate Scott and Red Sox management for another reason- (1) He was clearly on the heavy side when he played here, had an up-and-down performance; and they traded him (2) He went to the Brewers and looked GOOD in those tight unis of the 70s and played well (3) The Sox got him back in a horrible deal and he got fat again.
Yeah, I put that more on Sox management. Scott was overweight and 33. He was fine in 1977 but then basically done. Cooper went on to bat .300+ in 7 straight seasons, make 5 All Star teams, win a couple of gold gloves, and help get the Brew Crew to the Series. I hated that trade, thought it was stupid. And I was 11.
 

Minneapolis Millers

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,170
Twin Cities
People didn't like Drew because he didn't appear to try hard, never reacted when he failed in a big spot, and didn't seem to have the visible passion for the game that so many others did. He was just a quiet professional and did everything smoothly, so nothing stood out. Fans didn't like his icy demeanor and it was compounded with his struggles at the plate in 2007. I think people were fine with him after that.
People didn’t like that he held out for and got (because, Boras) top dollar, and then didn’t play every game, or at least every game like he was Trot Nixon with his hair on fire (and yes, he “suffered“ from not being a Nixonian dirt dog). Also, there‘s the whole mixed up initials thing. Reason enough not to trust the guy...!
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
6,270
People didn’t like that he held out for and got (because, Boras) top dollar, and then didn’t play every game, or at least every game like he was Trot Nixon with his hair on fire (and yes, he “suffered“ from not being a Nixonian dirt dog). Also, there‘s the whole mixed up initials thing. Reason enough not to trust the guy...!
I thought the JD stood for something, like a nickname he got in college or something?

I'm not sure why everyone expected a LHH OF to play every game either; platoons were already a thing in 2007. The "dirt dog" stuff (which thankfully has gone away overall) was really his Waterloo.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
2,661
Drew was.... .just so goddamned fucking boring!!!! I don't hate him... but I couldn't stand the way so many people said he played and acted "professionally... the way it's supposed to be played", because whenever I hear that I always am prepared to hear the follow-up be something about how all the "showboating nowadays" with how players of non-white backgrounds are showing that they actually are enjoying themselves out there.
Drew just seemed like he grew up hearing that and personified it. I could be totally wrong, but I've heard those phrases plenty and all that they imply
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,654
I can't really decide my pick but Rice could be it.
When I worked there we at the peon level all loved Jim because he was one of the few guys from that squad that was unfailingly polite to us. Clemens and Boggs were the ones we all hated because they treated us like their personal lackeys. I got chewed out by my supervisor once for telling Clemens "I'm here to make sure no one steals your luggage, not carry it to your car" when Boston was returning from a road trip. The official bollocking came after Joe Mooney called me into his office the next morning to hear the story first hand. And poured me a shot of Jack Daniels to celebrate because he couldn't stand Clemens either.
 

LoweTek

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 30, 2005
1,668
Central Florida
When I worked there we at the peon level all loved Jim because he was one of the few guys from that squad that was unfailingly polite to us. Clemens and Boggs were the ones we all hated because they treated us like their personal lackeys. I got chewed out by my supervisor once for telling Clemens "I'm here to make sure no one steals your luggage, not carry it to your car" when Boston was returning from a road trip. The official bollocking came after Joe Mooney called me into his office the next morning to hear the story first hand. And poured me a shot of Jack Daniels to celebrate because he couldn't stand Clemens either.
Interesting. I appreciate the insight. Also interesting you mention Joe Mooney. He always gets the credit, if you want to call it that, of treating Fenway Park like hallowed ground. Word was he wouldn't allow anyone on the playing field unless they were directly involved. One player said to me once, "Joe Mooney wouldn't allow Jesus Christ on that field unless he had a uniform on."

I'm interested in your comments.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,250
Maine
I thought the JD stood for something, like a nickname he got in college or something?

I'm not sure why everyone expected a LHH OF to play every game either; platoons were already a thing in 2007. The "dirt dog" stuff (which thankfully has gone away overall) was really his Waterloo.
It stood for David Jonathan. :)

What always got me about the dirtdog stuff and comparisons to Trot Nixon is that Nixon was just as, if not more fragile than Drew ever was. Average games in the OF per season (excluding early career cups of coffee): Drew 112, Nixon 103. In Nixon's defense, he played all of 10 games in his final season so that drags down his average some. Toss out that season and Nixon is at 113.

If you gave me the choice between the two, expecting they'd miss roughly the same number of games for ailments/injuries each year, I'd take Drew 10 out of 10 times without hesitation. He was that much of a better ballplayer.
 

Rudy's Curve

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2006
1,753
For the Drew wasn't clutch narrative (upon his arrival), he had five postseason hits here that raised the win expectancy by at least 15%. Does anyone besides Ortiz have as many? I could only find four for Manny.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,654
Interesting. I appreciate the insight. Also interesting you mention Joe Mooney. He always gets the credit, if you want to call it that, of treating Fenway Park like hallowed ground. Word was he wouldn't allow anyone on the playing field unless they were directly involved. One player said to me once, "Joe Mooney wouldn't allow Jesus Christ on that field unless he had a uniform on."

I'm interested in your comments.
I worked security for the Red Sox because it meant that I got to see the games for free (and when you were a young punker living in Boston, that was a huge consideration). As an added bonus, if you were on the job at the night games, you occasionally got to work the locker rooms post-game (this is how I got to talk baseball with Bob Uecker, who was the coolest of all the broadcasters). Parking lot duty was the worst, you had to keep the screaming fans from overwhelming the player vehicles as they were exiting the place. And most of the guys from that team just couldn't even be bothered to give you a friendly wave as they drove past you after you cleared the path. (Clemens literally drove over one of my coworkers' left foot one night while driving away, and made someone from management apologize on his behalf, major fucking douche.)

Joe always used to tell us that we had one job, "keep people off my fucking field". Anyway, one night in March of '88 as I was doing my rounds at three in the morning I found a pair of frat boys with shovels digging up home plate, so I walked up to them and asked them what the fuck they thought they were doing and one of them said "We're stealing home!" (I walked right into that one.)

I politely informed them that if they didn't fill in the holes I was going to cuff them and drag them off to Joe Mooney's office to deal with his wrath (these idiots were so plastered that they didn't notice that we didn't even have cuffs). And I said "Just to warn you guys, Joe just got up and is even now finishing his first bourbon and coffee of the day, he'll be drunk by the time he gets to you and he's a mean drunk." By good fortune I had broken up a fight outside the Rathskeller in Kenmore two nights previously and still had a black eye to show for it, because I told them that I'd gotten it from Joe when I accidentally bumped into him and caused him to spill his drink. They filled in their holes. And I took them to the main gate on Lansdowne and let them back into the wild. And then wrote up an incident report.

The security supervisor did a spot check the next morning and yelled at me for letting the guys go, and I asked "What did you want me to do? Stand around on Lansdowne for two hours waiting for the BPD to respond to a trespassing call?" He told me he was going to let Mooney handle it. Sure enough less than ten minutes later I got the call from Joe to get my butt over to his office where he yelled at me "What the hell happened to my batter's boxes‽‽‽".

So I told him the story. Fortunately for me when I got to the point of the story where I told the idiots that I was going to leave them handcuffed at Joe's office so that he could beat them up he was laughing hard enough that he forgot that I was there for an official bollocking. It also didn't hurt that he was starting his third shot by the time I got to the fun part of the story. That man drank so much that he made my liver hurt.
 

ngruz25

Bibby
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
14,110
Pittsburgh, PA
I have to ask, what "sins" did JD Drew ever commit (particularly with the Red Sox)? I get the dislike for guys who were assholes on occasion like Price, Beckett, and Lackey. Drew was quiet, reserved, and by all accounts a decent guy. The only thing remotely controversial that I can see is he always made sure to maximize his value at every opportunity...holding out in the draft, opting out of his Dodger deal for the Sox, etc. Hard to hold that sort of thing against a guy, given how fleeting a career can be.
In addition to what other people have said, Drew was a bit of a victim of circumstances. He signed a big dollar deal a year after fan favorite outfielder Johnny Damon ran off and signed with the Yankees for less money than Drew got from the Sox. He then proceeded to play some mediocre baseball for the first couple months and turned in a pretty meh first year. It's hard to recover from a poor first impression like that.

Drew was also the poster boy of the "stats nerds say this guy is better than your eyes tell you he is!" player type, which is particularly grating to a certain type of fan. And it turned out that Drew really wasn't much better than he appeared. We were always told that he was a great fielder, but WAR didn't love him. He had a couple decent seasons, but he wasn't as valuable as advertised.
 

LoweTek

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 30, 2005
1,668
Central Florida
I know we've had this debate before but Johnny Damon got $13m more over a four year deal to sign with NYY, $13m more than the Red Sox were offering him in a three year deal. I really don't believe anyone around here would turn it down under the circumstances. He was still a good player (other than his throwing arm) and would have been foolish to turn down that kind of differential. I don't think he ever anticipated the Red Sox would not match any NYY offer. He went back to BOS with the extra year NYY had put on the table asking if they would match it and they blew him off. Not to mention he had "right place, right time" luck. You might recall the Red Sox were very much in need of a CF when he signed here. He was pretty much the best option on the market at the time. Bernie Williams had just left NYY and the Yankees had an urgent need for CF. Same story.

I don't blame him one bit.
 

LostinNJ

lurker
Jul 19, 2005
444
Drew was.... .just so goddamned fucking boring!!!! I don't hate him... but I couldn't stand the way so many people said he played and acted "professionally... the way it's supposed to be played", because whenever I hear that I always am prepared to hear the follow-up be something about how all the "showboating nowadays" with how players of non-white backgrounds are showing that they actually are enjoying themselves out there.
Drew just seemed like he grew up hearing that and personified it. I could be totally wrong, but I've heard those phrases plenty and all that they imply
I think that's just who he was. His brother was also low-key. Both of them helped win championships, so they're solid in my book.

I never blamed Damon either. No player is going to sacrifice that much money just because the Red Sox are our team.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
21,106
Saskatoon Canada
To me it's Boggs.

Didn't like the persona he actively promoted, chicken eating cheickedm exact number of goriundballs, etc. He always struck me as phony. Had he mot promoted himself as the workaholic family man the dirtbag stuff would be less bothersome.

Since he left the horse, the Tampa cap, the bragging about beers, etc.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,250
Maine
Drew was also the poster boy of the "stats nerds say this guy is better than your eyes tell you he is!" player type, which is particularly grating to a certain type of fan. And it turned out that Drew really wasn't much better than he appeared. We were always told that he was a great fielder, but WAR didn't love him. He had a couple decent seasons, but he wasn't as valuable as advertised.
Drew was exactly as advertised. While WAR can't really love a player, he produced 13 WAR that Fangraphs estimates was worth $79.3M. Compared against his actual $70M total salary, seems as though the Sox got what they paid for. And that's despite the slow start in year one (2.0 WAR) and the disaster that was his final year (-0.3 WAR).

He was also a very good fielder (I'd rank him top 3 Red Sox RFs in my lifetime, with Dewey and Mookie). UZR shows him as above average during his Sox tenure. DRS showed him less love. The old eye test tends to fail with him because he typically got good jumps and took good angles so he often ended up making tougher plays look routine.

I can understand not considering him a favorite player. He certainly doesn't need to be held up as an all time great or anything, but the antipathy some people have for him is wholly undeserved.
 

curly2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 8, 2003
4,083
It's Schilling by 90 miles over everyone else. I'm not nuts about it but I accept that most players in my favorite sport are conservative. But I don't think they are hateful humans like Schilling. And the Nazi stuff is awful. Just a horrible person.

After him, it would probably be Lackey, for leaving his wife while she had cancer.

I never got the hate for Damon. If it's because he said he wouldn't go to the Yankees, he had three choices when he was asked the question: 1. Say. "I'll go to whoever offers the best deal," which would have gotten him roasted; 2. Say, "I don't want to discuss that now," which would have gotten him a little heat; and the choice he took, 3. Say "no," be praised for it and hope the Sox make it worthwhile for him to stay. When the Yankees offered him $13 million more, he took the obvious course of action.
 

Minneapolis Millers

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,170
Twin Cities
F*ck Damon. He has the right to hire Scott Boras and chase the most dollars, but if you say this to Boston fans:

"There's no way I can go play for the Yankees, but I know they're going to come after me hard. It's definitely not the most important thing to go out there for the top dollar, which the Yankees are going to offer me. It's not what I need."

...then they’re gonna justifiably torch you when you sign with the MFYs. I mean, just don’t say anything, or duck the question like everyone else does. But don’t say “no way” if you don’t mean it. Of course, no one ever accused Damon of being a particularly bright guy.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
2,661
I think that's just who he was. His brother was also low-key. Both of them helped win championships, so they're solid in my book.

I never blamed Damon either. No player is going to sacrifice that much money just because the Red Sox are our team.
I could care either way.... but a lot of this stuff is about some sort of vague sense of what "values" certain players "embody". Drew embodied a certain strain of conservativism that appeals to certain types of fans. Those same fans that love Drew will also often complain about other types of players that embody other types of values that appeal to other types of fans, and those Drew-fans will often express their preference for Drew in terms that will border on racism.
There's other types that we hear often about the "dirt dog" vs the "natural athlete" too. Like I said... I don't hate Drew for it.... I just found him to be like one of those guys that you forget about until he makes a play or comes up to bat. Back in his time I'd think about lineups and just be wondering who the hell am I forgetting here!?!?!? Dumbfounded how I was coming up with 8 guys on the team. He had some great moments........ and I strangely can barely even remember those but meanwhile I can remember almost every other minor to major big play during the playoffs at that time. Drew..... meh. He even sort of physically looks that way. Like if you were going to describe what a "white person" looked like you'd probably end up describing Drew.
 

curly2

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 8, 2003
4,083
F*ck Damon. He has the right to hire Scott Boras and chase the most dollars, but if you say this to Boston fans:

"There's no way I can go play for the Yankees, but I know they're going to come after me hard. It's definitely not the most important thing to go out there for the top dollar, which the Yankees are going to offer me. It's not what I need."

...then they’re gonna justifiably torch you when you sign with the MFYs. I mean, just don’t say anything, or duck the question like everyone else does. But don’t say “no way” if you don’t mean it. Of course, no one ever accused Damon of being a particularly bright guy.
He was bright enough to take a $52 million contract over a $39 million contract.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
4,035
Boston, MA
I know we've had this debate before but Johnny Damon got $13m more over a four year deal to sign with NYY, $13m more than the Red Sox were offering him in a three year deal. I really don't believe anyone around here would turn it down under the circumstances. He was still a good player (other than his throwing arm) and would have been foolish to turn down that kind of differential. I don't think he ever anticipated the Red Sox would not match any NYY offer. He went back to BOS with the extra year NYY had put on the table asking if they would match it and they blew him off. Not to mention he had "right place, right time" luck. You might recall the Red Sox were very much in need of a CF when he signed here. He was pretty much the best option on the market at the time. Bernie Williams had just left NYY and the Yankees had an urgent need for CF. Same story.

I don't blame him one bit.
So the Yankees offered him the same salary and one more guaranteed year, and that's an offer that couldn't possibly be refused? Even after his contract ended, one year older than he would have been after the Red Sox offer, he signed a one year $8 million deal with the Tigers. That's a difference between 4/$52 million and 4/$47 million.
 

LoweTek

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
May 30, 2005
1,668
Central Florida
So the Yankees offered him the same salary and one more guaranteed year, and that's an offer that couldn't possibly be refused? Even after his contract ended, one year older than he would have been after the Red Sox offer, he signed a one year $8 million deal with the Tigers. That's a difference between 4/$52 million and 4/$47 million.
I honestly think it was more a case of BOS blowing him off when he brought the four year deal to them for a counter. Would have bothered me too. It's still business.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,250
Maine
I honestly think it was more a case of BOS blowing him off when he brought the four year deal to them for a counter. Would have bothered me too. It's still business.
There's also the part where they didn't believe Damon could be a CF for the length of the deal, and at the time, they didn't really need a LF (Manny signed through 2008 and potentially through 2010) and no way could he handle RF at Fenway if they didn't like him in CF. Lo and behold, Damon was a full time LF in the final year of his Yankee deal, after transitioning there the season before (87 games in LF, 35 in CF).
 

Savin Hillbilly

loves the secret sauce
SoSH Member
Jul 10, 2007
18,781
The wrong side of the bridge....
That fight had nothing to do with why I hated Gomes, and honestly I wouldn't have even recalled he was involved if I hadn't just seen that video. It does, however, match exactly what I would expect of Jonny Gomes.

I hated Jonny Gomes because he came across as one of the fakiest, douchiest people I've ever seen play baseball. And I am typically a huge player defender who hates the morality play so many people try and make of sports. But Gomes just always oozed douchebag to me. I just had a visceral hate for him. And a quick google search shows I'm not alone, even pre-2013:
Thank you--couldn't agree more. I always felt like he was the anti-Napoli -- he was trying for the same good-old-boy vibe, except with Nap it seemed genuine and open-hearted and with Gomes it felt smarmy and douchey. That team mostly consisted of guys who were really easy to like--Nap, Victorino, Nava, Koji, Dempster, Ross, to name a few. Gomes was not one of them.
 

The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2006
5,994
SS Botany Bay
Interesting. I appreciate the insight. Also interesting you mention Joe Mooney. He always gets the credit, if you want to call it that, of treating Fenway Park like hallowed ground. Word was he wouldn't allow anyone on the playing field unless they were directly involved. One player said to me once, "Joe Mooney wouldn't allow Jesus Christ on that field unless he had a uniform on."
Didn't Mooney basically suck at his real job as groundskeeper? I remember players saying it was the worst field in baseball and that it got noticeably better after Mooney was eventually replaced by Mellor.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
15,542
I think the Award is named after Schilling.
As far as the Nazi stuff goes, has he ever explained this mustache in terms of a shaving accident? (I haven't seen it if he has):
31127



Beyond him, while Clemens always seemed to be an asshole while he was playing, when I see and hear him now talking with announcers and such, it's clear he's matured.
I never liked Marty Barrett.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
12,250
Maine
Didn't Mooney basically suck at his real job as groundskeeper? I remember players saying it was the worst field in baseball and that it got noticeably better after Mooney was eventually replaced by Mellor.
The field was certainly bad, but it's hard to say how much was Mooney and how much was ownership cheaping out on upkeep, particularly toward the end. The Yawkey Trust was angling to get a new ballpark for years and let the place go to seed. Mellor's hiring was a big thing, but I think the new ownership investing a ton into field upgrades definitely helped too.
 

Norm Siebern

Member
SoSH Member
May 12, 2003
6,566
Western MD
Butch Hobson. Always hated Butch Hobson. The whole "I'll tough out these bone chips and keep playing 'cause I'm tough" although he was hurting the team wore very thin. And yes I also blame Zimmer because he allowed it to happen.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

Luddite
Silver Supporter
Jul 5, 2018
430
I don't look at Schilling for his political views(Which I mostly disagree with but it's free speech) He was always a great pitcher and a better postseason one, it was because he was such an egomaniac and thought everyone wanted his opinion on everything. It began with the Steroid hearing when he was there speaking, March 2005 and he wasn't even accused. Why are you are on there Curt? Just because you think everyone wants you opinion. Then he signed a one year deal after 07 for 08, retired then took the money of course. Then the Rhode Island debacle.
Political views and bigotry are different things. If he's pro-gun, pro-life, anti-imigration or scoffs at climate change, I don't care. Most American MLB players are conservative, anyway.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

Don't know him from Adam
SoSH Member
Mar 14, 2006
5,586
Kernersville, NC
I think the Award is named after Schilling.
As far as the Nazi stuff goes, has he ever explained this mustache in terms of a shaving accident? (I haven't seen it if he has):
View attachment 31127



Beyond him, while Clemens always seemed to be an asshole while he was playing, when I see and hear him now talking with announcers and such, it's clear he's matured.
I never liked Marty Barrett.
I think it’s a blonde mustache that’s hard to see. Other images of the same card make it a little easier to see.
31130
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
972
Not heroes, but the two guys who earned my wrath over the years were Lou Gorman for drafting Tom Fischer in the first round in 1988 (12th pick!) because his uncle was the pitching coach (could have had Tino Martinez, Charles Nagy, Rico Brogna, Arthur Rhodes), and Haywood Sullivan for putting his son Marc on the major league roster. These moves showed total contempt for the fans. At last Schilling was trying to win.
No question the talent that the Red Sox developed (for the most part) in the early 70s was wasted. Sullivan outmaneuvered Dick O'Connell and took over (Yawkey's wife was the reason for that after Yawkey died). Sullivan's son on the roster was one example of that. Amazingly, Mark Sullivan was the starting catcher at the beginning of 1987 when Gedman held out.-
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 19, 2009
6,270
While I can understand the heat for Lackey w/r/t leaving his wife when she had cancer, I do want to say that there is probably way more to that story than we will ever know and I'm not sure it's particularly fair to assume he left her because of the cancer, because he couldn't handle it, or anything like that.

One of my girlfriend's close childhood friends died of cancer a year or so ago and we both went to the funeral. From everything I was told, this girl was just a delight of a person, had a big heart, was selfless, spiritual, the whole 9 yards. But she and my girlfriend hadn't spoken in quite some time because once she got the cancer diagnosis her personality began to shift and there started being a lot of tension any time they would speak, eventually leading to an unpleasant encounter where this girl basically told all of her closest friends to fuck off. There wasn't bad blood or any particular incident that caused the split, just the girl deciding that her friends did not see the world they way she wanted them to see it now that she had cancer and she couldn't deal with them any more as a result. A once tight friendship turned to basically dust in the span of a few months, long before her eventual death.

I don't know if John Lackey's ex-wife had the same thing happen, but I've heard of similar situations, where the cancer poisons the mind as well as the body and the afflicted person stops bearing any real resemblance to who he or she (etc.) once was and resent attempts to be supportive or helpful, sometimes lashing out at those who offer it, likely in fear, frustration, or something in between. If that's what happened and the two of them just lost any love they had for each other, I can understand why the divorce would come up.

Nothing about John Lackey ever suggested he was not willing to love his wife because she had cancer and it's possible their issues started long before; it has to be difficult to be married to someone who is on the road more than half the year and might have a port in every storm, so to speak (not saying he did, but no guarantee he didn't). But I can't hold something that happens in someone's personal life against him without all the pertinent information because I wouldn't want anyone doing that to me.

It sucks what happened, but heaping all the blame and guilt on him may not be fair. If someone has more info and wants to share it, it may change my mind, but I can't hate a man for a decision he made that I don't know enough about to say if it was the right one or not.