Let's Talk Exten$ions...

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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Chris Sale wants to be a member of the Red Sox for the rest of his career and win championships for this organization.

Mookie Betts wants to be "treated fairly" despite presumably being offered a 10+ year contract extension at somewhere between $32 and $38 million a year.
Source this or stop. We're better than this.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Chris Sale wants to be a member of the Red Sox for the rest of his career and win championships for this organization.

Mookie Betts wants to be "treated fairly" despite presumably being offered a 10+ year contract extension at somewhere between $32 and $38 million a year.

The disparity speaks volumes to me.
Even if those figures are true, which no one seems to think but you, there are other considerations besides money that might make a ballplayer take a contract or not
 

soxhop411

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Porcello wants to stay with the Sox and sign a discounted extension


They were the final hours before Opening Day. For Rick Porcello, however, the excitement of starting the 2019 season was somewhat tempered.

The starting pitcher didn't want to head into the current campaign with questions regarding his future with the Red Sox. But, much to Porcello's dismay, that is what is happening.

Wednesday afternoon, before heading out of the visitors' clubhouse at T-Mobile Park, Porcello detailed his quest to join the rest of the starting rotation in having some sort of certainty with the Red Sox beyond this season.
Myself and my agent (Jim Murray) -- my agent was handling it -- he approached them and expressed my desire to continue to want to play here," Porcello told WEEI.com. "We expressed our willingness to take a discount to make that work. Conceptionally there were talks about it but as the spring went on economically they didn’t feel like it was going to fit. It pretty much kind of fizzled out and there were really no further talks beyond that. That’s pretty much it."

Was an actual extension ever presented to Porcello?

"No," he said. "No offer was made."
Besides the willingness to take "a discount" in any contract extension, Porcello also is opening the door to try and get something done in the midst of the regular season.

"Yeah. It’s how badly I want to play here," the 30-year-old said when asked if he would talk contract during the season. "I don’t think it would be a distraction for me. I would be more than willing and open to continue to talk if there is any interest from the Red Sox end going forward. But it’s pretty much up to them at this point.
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/rob-bradford/how-rick-porcello-tried-get-extension-done-red-sox

More at the link.
 

SouthernBoSox

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Unfortunately his production won't be that difficult to replicate at a massive massive discount.

Porcello coming off the books is imperative to resigning Mookie.
 

BornToRun

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It really hurts that Rick’s likely going to leave. He’s a dependable innings eater, a fiery competitor that has the attitude we all love as fans, and he really loves playing here. Not to mention, personally, he grew up in a Jersey town not far from where I did.

I’m holding out hope, perhaps unrealistically, that whatever kind of discount he’s willing to take is enough that it would make retaining him a possibility. I’m sure it’ll be explored simply as a matter of due diligence but whatever happens after that remains to be seen. Regardless of what occurs, I love you Big Dick Rick and have loved watching you pitch in Boston.
 

chawson

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If I were coming off a WS championship 17-win season despite giving up the second-most home runs in baseball over the last two years I’d probably want to sign an extension too.

Porcello has been fine and his durability is without parallel, but there are about 10 scenarios I can think of better than giving him even a Lance Lynn contract next year.
 

bosockboy

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Porcello or JBJ has to go, one of the two. I’d prefer JBJ but if Porcello signed cheaply enough you could move some of the young pitching for a young CF to replace JBJ next season.
 

brandonchristensen

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At the next CBA, the luxury tax has to go up right? Maybe they just eat the cost for a year or so and then come out in okay shape. This the last year with Pablo's bloated carcass on the roster as well. So technically Porcello could just take over that spot and his own $20M goes to Mookie (plus whatever chunk of his $20M deal this year is).

I don't know. Baseball is a mess, the salaries are insane.
 

Apisith

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He's been worth 8.1 bWAR over the 4 years. That's basically 2 bWAR per year. The market has changed for 2 win players, though. I don't think it's as simple as multiplying the $8m or whatever to projected wins.
 

bosockboy

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How far below market do you think he's go?

$5 Million is a joke. $10 million isn't happening, either, so start with that.
The market has changed drastically though the last two years. Gio Gonzalez settled for a minor league deal. Not saying they are equivalent but it’s very possible he’d take something like 4/40/-4/48.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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I think the Sox signed Eovaldi with an eye on him replacing Porcello spot and salary. They just did it one year early. And I agree that, assuming he pitched as he did last year, something in Eo’s range is what Rick would want, as that’s already a pay cut for him.

But if he would take a sizable cut, trading $ for security, maybe he’d go 5/$70. I think that’s still too much for the team, given other higher priorities/ needs.
 

chawson

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Per Statcast, Porcello’s closest comps are Clay Buchholz, Tanner Roark, Dereck Rodriguez, Jason Hammel, Yefry Ramirez, and Zach Davies. $48-64 million for Porcello is a ridiculous waste of resources. It’s not happening.
 

joe dokes

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Chris Sale wants to be a member of the Red Sox for the rest of his career and win championships for this organization.
Mookie Betts wants to be "treated fairly" despite presumably being offered a 10+ year contract extension at somewhere between $32 and $38 million a year.
The disparity speaks volumes to me.
I can't speak to your hearing, and putting aside the accuracy of those "presumed" numbers, Betts didn't just miss half a season due to an injury at a position or an age when others at that age and position and injury might wonder how long their career is going to last and whether it might be better to sign now, rather than risk missing another half season when they're a year older. In that context, Sale already was treated "fairly," so didn't have to express his desire to be treated that way.

And in the context of being the equal (or near-equal) of Trout, Harper and Machado, "fairly" means something very different with Betts.
 

chrisfont9

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If Porcello signed a 3 year extension at $5 mil a year would that bring his AAV down to $9 mil a year?
I think it would be up to the contract language. Typically by "extension" you mean tacked on at the end of this one, which would not change the AAV for this one and in your example would be 5m AAV for those last three years. But if the contract said "we are ripping up the old one but paying him 20+5+5+5" and just calling it a 3x$5m extension, then you'd get an AAV of just under 9. That's allowed in the NFL. I'm not sure it's allowed under the MLB CBA though.
 

chrisfont9

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If Porcello is willing to take a contract well below market value, it is definitely something the Sox should consider.
I totally agree! If the Sox are trying to get under the LT at some point, then maybe it's just a non-starter, but if he's so keen on staying, maybe there's room for a 2-yr deal with some team options? I do think there's a market for him in the 3x12m range maybe, at least. He's totally dependable and can even hit. Some NL GM is going to raise the price and I don't think the Sox will match it.
 

The Gray Eagle

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I disagree, I think the only way Porcello comes back is if he hits the market and doesn't get offered nearly as much as he hopes, like Kimbrel and Keuchel this year. He's making $21 million this year, there's no way he signs here for a big pay cut without at least testing the market.
 

chrisfont9

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I disagree, I think the only way Porcello comes back is if he hits the market and doesn't get offered nearly as much as he hopes, like Kimbrel and Keuchel this year. He's making $21 million this year, there's no way he signs here for a big pay cut without at least testing the market.
Did you see his comments on WEEI? He was signaling something, though exactly what I guess we don't know. I'm sure he's not coming back for chump change, but he really doesn't want to leave. What you suggest is what he *should* do, for sure.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Working on extension with Bogaerts: https://www.yahoo.com/sports/red-sox-star-xander-bogaerts-162710015.html

"Tom Werner admitted last month contract talks with Bogaerts and Sale had started,"

I'd love to lock up Xander for 6 more seasons... between 27-32 he should still be defensively a league average player there and I'm expecting at least a steady offensive line over the next 3 seasons from him with a slight down trend the following three. Would he take $18 per season?
 

chawson

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The Yankees surely. Possibly the Brewers, White Sox, or Mets if their young guys don’t improve, or the Cubs if they move on from Addison Russell.

Edit: Rangers and Giants have Andrus and Crawford a few more years. The list is not many, but New York and maybe the Chicago teams could bid up his price substantially.
 
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crow216

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I don't see the Yankees getting involved on Xander. They love Didi, they have DJL, and I'm doubtful they're going to commit a big contract to another Sox player who has had a couple decent years but will want star money. #ellsburywhiplash
 
Feb 6, 2018
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I totally agree! If the Sox are trying to get under the LT at some point, then maybe it's just a non-starter, but if he's so keen on staying, maybe there's room for a 2-yr deal with some team options? I do think there's a market for him in the 3x12m range maybe, at least. He's totally dependable and can even hit. Some NL GM is going to raise the price and I don't think the Sox will match it.
I can see someone like Atlanta going after him (Porcello) with a multi year contract probably higher than what Boston wants to offer.
 

Trotski

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Chicago, IL
Mets
Giants
Rangers
White Sox

Come to mind as teams who could use an upgrade, assuming they don't have someone in the pipeline
I think the White Sox would be all over X. They blew the Machado thing, and with Arenado off the table now, they have to do SOMETHING with the money. I could see them overspending so they can tell their fans, "See, we spend money."
 
Feb 6, 2018
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I think the White Sox would be all over X. They blew the Machado thing, and with Arenado off the table now, they have to do SOMETHING with the money. I could see them overspending so they can tell their fans, "See, we spend money."
I’m the most optimistic about signing X before he hits free agency since both parties have expressed interest to get a deal done. The market is only going to go up if he has another terrific offensive year so now is the time. It makes sense to wait on Mookie until after the season now that his market is probably at the highest with the Trout deal.
 

soxhop411

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Mookie expands on his contract thoughts before the Rays game:
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. — Mookie Betts appears determined to test free agency following the 2020 season. But that does not mean he doesn’t enjoy playing for the Boston Red Sox.

The superstar said any assertions he doesn’t like it in Boston or doesn’t want to be in Boston are inaccurate.

“It’s completely wrong,” Betts told MassLive.com on Monday at Tropicana Field. “I’ve loved it here. I love the front office, my teammates, coaches. Everybody. It’s been nothing but amazing here. Just because you go to free agency doesn’t mean you don’t want to be somewhere. It’s just a part of the business."
He knows some people have interpreted his desire to test free agency as disliking it in Boston.

“I’ve never said that," he said. "I’ve always said I loved it here. It’s been amazing to me, my family. It’s ... like a home to me. It’s been all I know. And just because you exercise something in the business, that doesn’t mean I don’t like it.”
Has Betts thought about the possibility he could be traded this coming offseason or before July 31 if Boston doesn’t play better?

“Yes and no,” Betts said. “I think that’s a part of it. There’s nothing I can do about it. I have to go out and put on my uniform every day. And if that time comes, that time comes. But right now I’m here, and I’m enjoying my time here. It’s above my pay grade.”

More at the link.
 

sean1562

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i mean, people are explicitly asking him about it. IDK how him saying "i have loved it here but understand that it is a business" when a reporter asks him questions could possibly be construed as a negative on him
 

TomBrunansky23

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It makes complete sense.
"I love it here and I wanna be here BUT I don't love it enough to want to work on a deal here SO I will likely leave in two years because free agency."

Look I understand how great he is. I want him on my team for as long as he can be here. But is this the kind of talk you want to hear before you make a franchise-altering investment in him? On the eve of the two most important weeks of the season? Decision time is coming.
 

SoFloSoxFan

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And he reaches free agency after NEXT season. Why would he crawl to the negotiating table now?
 

Pandarama

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Aug 20, 2018
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He could. So could have Clemens, Vaughn, Damon, Lester, Ellsbury...

They cannot afford to take the chance that he walks for nothing but a mid round draft pick.
Man, that's the hill you want to die on?

As in, wouldn't it be great if Ellsbury were sucking up $21.9M of Mr. Henry's dead AAV money instead of the Steinbrenners'?
 

sean1562

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All he is saying is that baseball is a business and he is an extremely valuable asset. Franchises take advantage of players all the time. Shit, a big part of this board was hoping pedroia would do “the honorable thing” and retire so a billionaire could save some dollars. He wants one of the richest franchises in the league to pay him big money and the best way to get that done is to be able to leverage better offers.

And they are the Boston Red Sox, if mookie betts leaves in FA they will take the 30 mil saved and spend it somewhere else. Him walking isn’t gonna doom the franchise for years
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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All he is saying is that baseball is a business and he is an extremely valuable asset. Franchises take advantage of players all the time. Shit, a big part of this board was hoping pedroia would do “the honorable thing” and retire so a billionaire could save some dollars. He wants one of the richest franchises in the league to pay him big money and the best way to get that done is to be able to leverage better offers.

And they are the Boston Red Sox, if mookie betts leaves in FA they will take the 30 mil saved and spend it somewhere else. Him walking isn’t gonna doom the franchise for years
This is bullshit. Even those with the foolish view that retiring was the honorable thing didn't give a shit about Henry saving some dollars. Regardless of how rich he is, his team still has to compete within the financial parameters of the league. And the folly of Pedroia retiring was so the Sox would have less dead money in their payroll and more money to spend on the team.
 

SoFloSoxFan

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In 2016 Mookie was second in the MVP race to Mike Trout and in 2017 he was paid less than 1m.

Rafael Devers will probably get about 1m next year.

These guys would be negligent and foolish if they didn't do everything they can to earn as much as they can when they can.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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In 2016 Mookie was second in the MVP race to Mike Trout and in 2017 he was paid less than 1m.

Rafael Devers will probably get about 1m next year.

These guys would be negligent and foolish if they didn't do everything they can to earn as much as they can when they can.
So Xander was negligent and foolish for signing his extension?
There really are some people who a fine just making a ridiculous amount of money and don't feel the need to make the most money. Xander appears to be one of those people. Mookie appears not to be. That doesn't make Xander foolish and it doesn't make Mookie greedy. People are actually different.
 

SoFloSoxFan

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I didn't say Xander was negligent or foolish, nor did I say Mookie was greedy. I said the team is not paying him a dime more than they have to and he shouldn't take a dime less than he needs to. I also said this would be a terrible time for him to be trying to negotiate an extension.

I feel like there are three potential outcomes here:

1) Mookie has an MVP 2019 and the Sox pay him like an MVP.
2) Mookie has a mediocre 2019 and agrees to take a lesser contract than he would have after 2018.
3) Mookie has a mediocre 2019 and refuses to take any sort of discount. Demands that Boston either pay him like Mike Trout or he goes to FA after the year.
There is no chance of #2 happening. Mookie isn't going to sell low on himself when he still has a year to go before free agency. There is literally nothing in the way he's approached his contract that should lead us to believe he would.