Life w/o ERod - 6th SP and SP depth

TomRicardo

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ERod has a swelling issue.

Who replaces him?

Right now I would go with Elias. I think he is a little better than Owens right now with a little bit more MLB experience. I think Owens gains more being in AAA plus he may still be a trading chip (more risk than reward bringing him up for a small stint).

You can also start with Wright with add another reliever. Wright needs to be up (he is out of options)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Depending on how long ERod is down, I think the most likely option is Wright and bringing on an extra reliever. Use it as an extra week or two to assess Escobar (since he's out of options) without having to send down someone like Ross to start the year.
 

RIrooter09

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Depending on how long ERod is down, I think the most likely option is Wright and bringing on an extra reliever. Use it as an extra week or two to assess Escobar (since he's out of options) without having to send down someone like Ross to start the year.
This is probably the smartest play. Once ERod is ready to return, move either Kelly or Wright to the pen depending on who's performing.
 
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staz

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ERod has a swelling issue.

Who replaces him?

Right now I would go with Elias. I think he is a little better than Owens right now with a little bit more MLB experience. I think Owens gains more being in AAA plus he may still be a trading chip (more risk than reward bringing him up for a small stint).

You can also start with Wright with add another reliever. Wright needs to be up (he is out of options)
Yes, Elias.

The recent track record of Seattle's handling of its young arms is less than stellar, evidenced by Dipoto's house cleaning of the manager and pitching coach. Not saying Elias is some diamond in the rough, but with better usage/coaching he has SP3/SP4 upside.
 

In my lifetime

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Do you somehow not think we have enough guys who can be a fifth starter? Miley's ceiling is pretty low and most of the guys we'd put in that position have a higher one.
Except the pitcher's ceiling is not the issue, but rather a pitcher's expected worth going into the season. I made this point before the time of the Miley trade ---- due to the frequency of pitcher injuries, playoff competitive teams really need 6 pitchers going into the season that they are comfortable putting out there every 5 games. Still the RS are much deeper than most, as long as Owens or Wright can give them 5-6 innings of competitive baseball.

However, at this point with ERod's injury the 5th starter is now on par with the other question marks (1B fielding, Panda's buffet) for the RS heading into the Spring.
 

Rasputin

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Except the pitcher's ceiling is not the issue, but rather a pitcher's expected worth going into the season. I made this point before the time of the Miley trade ---- due to the frequency of pitcher injuries, playoff competitive teams really need 6 pitchers going into the season that they are comfortable putting out there every 5 games. Still the RS are much deeper than most, as long as Owens or Wright can give them 5-6 innings of competitive baseball.

However, at this point with ERod's injury the 5th starter is now on par with the other question marks (1B fielding, Panda's buffet) for the RS heading into the Spring.
It's not guaranteed yet that Rodriguez will miss any time.

With Wright, Owens, Elias, and Johnson, I'm pretty confident we can find a pitcher we're comfortable sending out there every fifth day. Certainly we'll find one to make two or three starts if that's what's necessary.

I don't really see any reason to be pining for Wade Miley.
 

nothumb

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Depending on how long ERod is down, I think the most likely option is Wright and bringing on an extra reliever. Use it as an extra week or two to assess Escobar (since he's out of options) without having to send down someone like Ross to start the year.
Assuming nobody gets traded before April, and there is lots of competition at the back of the pen as well, have to think this is the most likely option. Owens would need to really force the issue to stay ahead of Wright.

Then again, this is the DD era, he may not make all his down-roster decisions based off a desire to hang on to 43 year old prospects with SP6 upside. (Being a little sarcastic here, I like Wright)
 

luckysox

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Assuming nobody gets traded before April, and there is lots of competition at the back of the pen as well, have to think this is the most likely option. Owens would need to really force the issue to stay ahead of Wright.

Then again, this is the DD era, he may not make all his down-roster decisions based off a desire to hang on to 43 year old prospects with SP6 upside. (Being a little sarcastic here, I like Wright)
This is what makes this question interesting, I think. If DD were not here, I would be in the "Wright - No Brainer" camp. But if Owens or Elias (I guess Johnson, too, though I think that'd be less likely) are pitching very well and Wright is pitching meh as camp breaks, I think there's a chance that we see one of them up simply because they give the Sox a better chance to win. I wouldn't expect that a non-prospect knuckleballer would keep him from putting a younger, better pitcher on the roster.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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This is what makes this question interesting, I think. If DD were not here, I would be in the "Wright - No Brainer" camp. But if Owens or Elias (I guess Johnson, too, though I think that'd be less likely) are pitching very well and Wright is pitching meh as camp breaks, I think there's a chance that we see one of them up simply because they give the Sox a better chance to win. I wouldn't expect that a non-prospect knuckleballer would keep him from putting a younger, better pitcher on the roster.
I'm not sure about Owens, who the Sox have clearly been grooming as a starter. I can't imagine they relegate him to the MLB pen rather than continue to keep him stretched out in AAA, what with Buchholz penciled into one of the first five spots.

OTOH, Elias is definitely competition for Wright's presumptive swing-man role and also the pitcher I expect the Sox to use to replace Rodriguez at the start of the season. First, because he's not one of the teams' prospects; second, and more importantly, because Elias is so tough on the LHH (.635 OPS career split vs LHH) that opposing teams would likely try to stack their lineups with on days Kelly (.741) and Porcello (.804) are scheduled to pitch. Wright's not exactly a slouch there, either (.685), but the knuckleball is a fickle thing.

I don't really believe Edwin Escobar is in the discussion. There are too many better LHP options on the 40-man roster at this point. And he hasn't exactly gotten equal billing (1.0 IP this spring, no starts) to the trio of Owens, Wright, and Elias. More likely, the Sox try to limit his exposure against other teams in March, hopefully thereby lowering interest in him when he's passed through waivers.
 

johnnywayback

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Here's how I see it:

1. The Red Sox have an off day on 4/5, which means they could skip the fifth starter spot and have Price go on normal rest on 4/9. The 5th starter spot would first come up on 4/13 against Baltimore. This gives Rodriguez a little bit longer to be ready.

2. If they don't want to skip the fifth starter spot, that game on 4/9 is against Toronto, and the next fifth starter game would be 4/15, also against Toronto. Toronto has a terrifying array of RH power hitters -- all things being equal, I'd rather have Wright pitching those two games than a lefty.

3. If Wright is starting because of #2, the bullpen upgrade from Escobar to Elias doesn't seem like a ton -- and it's possible that teams would be less interested in adding a waiver pickup two weeks after Opening Day, meaning it might be easier to sneak Escobar down to Pawtucket. Plus, we'd get a couple weeks to see what we actually have in the guy.

I guess then my vote would be to DL Rodriguez, start Wright, and stash Escobar at the back of the bullpen.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

I truly hope that Wright is #6 in order because he's out of options and (1) it looks like he can give the team a lot of at least average innings if he gets a chance, (2) there may be some benefits of throwing a knuckleballer in a series, and (3) who doesn't want a knuckleballer in the rotation for entertainment purposes?

Wright's last 93 innings have been at a 114 ERA+ and a 4.52 FIP. He won't last a day on waivers.
 

PrometheusWakefield

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Goddamn this thread title made me terrified that somebody had placed a call to Dr. James Andrews or something. We're talking about one start? Elias can take it, or anyone else.
 

phenweigh

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Toe Nash

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Goddamn this thread title made me terrified that somebody had placed a call to Dr. James Andrews or something. We're talking about one start? Elias can take it, or anyone else.
Indeed. There will be plenty of spot starts for the pitchers we have in AAA, even if everyone stays reasonably healthy. Whoever takes this particular one or maybe two isn't that important. It seems most likely that you skip the 5th starter the first time, plan for ERod to go on the 13th and keep Wright or whoever on schedule to go if he can't.
 

chrisfont9

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The linked article makes it sounds like Elias can be pretty entertaining as well. I like Wright and would be very disappointed if he doesn't make the roster, but I like him as a reliever as much as a starter.

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/john-tomase/2016/03/08/race-final-spot-red-sox-rotation-dont-count-ou
I've seen him in person, including a shutout of KC last year. It was Tiantesque. A joy to watch. Obviously that's not an accurate comp but he does have that flair and an array of arm angles, when he's on a good day.

Unrealistic comps aside, I viewed his acquisition as ideally set up for spot starts. If he looks sharp in spring and Farrell decides he can trust him, I'd bet Elias gets first shot at any missed starts (of which right now the number for Edro is still 0).
 

RoDaddy

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This is a great discussion because it underscores our sp depth. Have we ever had this many quality arms backing up the starting 5? I mean even our 9th guy (probably Johnson) would likely be a decent bottom of the rotation guy if given the chance
 

Max Venerable

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From what I saw of Wright last year before the injury, assuming he is healthy out of spring training, he should absolutely get first crack. Two of his last three starts were gems against New York and Chicago (15 IP with 3 ER, a WHIP of about 1 and K/IP over 1), and his dual upside as a potentially dominant starter and/or rubber armed innings eater make him worth attempting to establish early.

I think there were some articles about how nasty his knuckle ball has become. I think he's got a higher ceiling than any other option we have.
 

Drek717

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From what I saw of Wright last year before the injury, assuming he is healthy out of spring training, he should absolutely get first crack. Two of his last three starts were gems against New York and Chicago (15 IP with 3 ER, a WHIP of about 1 and K/IP over 1), and his dual upside as a potentially dominant starter and/or rubber armed innings eater make him worth attempting to establish early.

I think there were some articles about how nasty his knuckle ball has become. I think he's got a higher ceiling than any other option we have.
I'd imagine it would be Wright as well but less because of a potential ceiling and more to do with the logistics of player control. Elias has an option. Wright does not. Elias can go straight to AAA from ST, Wright takes the start, and they get an extra week or two to evaluate their favorite NRI or 40 man bubble guy (Marmol, Varvaro, Escobar, etc.). I don't think Dombrowski will be quite as doggedly committed to the maximizing player control mantra that Epstein and Cherington were fiercely committed to, but this is one of those situations that sets up pretty perfectly to give Farrell and co. valuable extra time to make a decision.
 

YTF

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A piece on NESN this morning mention that Pedro is spending a lot of time working with both Rodriguez and Elias. Looking forward to seeing how this may affect Elias. If he's got talent that Pedro can help develop and mentor and if Carson Smith is what we hope he is, this is going to be an amazing get for Wade Miley.
 
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YTF

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A little more on NESN this morning with Pedro discussing Rodriquez and Elias saying that he sees a bit of himself in both of them. Where he was at that point in his career, needing to learn and being receptive, which he says that both seem to be. He mentioned specifically that's he's working with Elias on hiding the ball and that though both are lefties, he has no problem conveying his message. I really love listening to Pedro as he has a genuine joy for what he's doing as well as a sense of duty about sharing what he knows. Who among us thought that Pedro Martinez could possibly play a part in future Red Sox championships well after he's thrown his last pitch in a Sox uniform?
 

Marbleheader

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I don't put much stock in the comparisons. Pedro made comparisons to Rubby and himself a couple of years ago too.
 

3_games_down

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Why don't we spot the rotation at least one cycle, maybe even two, before bemoaning its ineffectiveness?
Exactly this.

Porcello and Buchholz have dominated in large swaths. The assets in our rotation certainly have high risk reward pitching lines, but that's a great part of the fun. I'm hopeful that Rodriguez can take his time coming back and that when he is ready, he is forced to make a hell of a case for breaking into the starting five.
 

Rasputin

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Why don't we spot the rotation at least one cycle, maybe even two, before bemoaning its ineffectiveness?
But everyone was horrible last season so they can never be good again because that's how baseball works and it's not like they were any good at the end of last season with starters having a 3.83 ERA in August and a 3.37 ERA in October and September.

Plus they all suck because I said so.
 

The Gray Eagle

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Rodriguez now looking like it will be mid-May before he will be back pitching with the Red Sox:
"Eduardo Rodriguez is throwing another batting practice session Wednesday, with a simulated game scheduled for Sunday. If all goes as planned, it appears as though the lefty would be returning to the Red Sox rotation around mid-May.
“If you count Sunday as one, he’s not going to need a full five day rotation to come back from that,” said Red Sox manager John Farrell. “So we’re still not putting any time frame on it but we’d like to get him to 90 pitches before he returns to us.”

Remember back in February when he first hurt his knee but it was nothing serious and he was going to be back pitching soon? Now it's turned into him missing all of spring training, all of April and half of May. Hopefully he won't have any setbacks.
 

Maximus

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Not having a reliable #2 is the biggest issue on this team. Clay has the stuff but you can't rely on him and he has a glass jaw. I have faith that DD knows this too and will fix this issue if it is still a problem by the deadline.