Lineup in NL Park for WS

bigyazbread

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I do not doubt in the least that the Sox are entertaining the idea of Mookie moving over to 2B for the WS. They have 3 days to work him out there between now and the Game 1 and another off day before Game 3...so if the move is made they will do it with a certain level of confidence.
 

dbecks

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Mookie Betts at second base? Alex Cora:

“I don’t know man, he already played second during the regular season. There’s always a chance, I guess."
 

drbretto

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I honestly can't come up with a counterargument against Mookie playing 2B that isn't rhetorical. I think it happens and I'm all for it.
 

drbretto

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JBJ's defense is even more essential if JD is in the outfield. Beni's all-around play makes him an essential starter, IMO, too. Especially his speed and defense. I think that helps mask some of the loss of Betts in the outfield and more than makes up for any uncertainty at 2B. I think it might be clear cut. I really like it.

Edit: Match-ups depending, of course
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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I don’t think it’s clear cut at all but they have two games to see if JBJ is still hot. I think the kinda silly but they know more than me and if he takes infield normally, no harm in being ready for it.
 

Byrdbrain

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Haha. Who derisively called this a video game move?
I think that was in reference to JDM playing 1B more than Mookie at 2B.
I still don't think this will happen but it is at least in the realm of somewhat reasonable.
 

AB in DC

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I doubt that Mookie will start any of the games at 2B, but I could see it happening later in the game, e.g. if the Sox are behind, they could bring in JBJ (or Beni) as a pinch hitter or in a double-switch, with Kinsler to the bench, moving Betts to 2B temporarily. That puts the best offense in the lineup and still allows Cora to put Holt in if the Sox retake the lead.
 

The Gray Eagle

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At the least, talking about it gives the NL team more to think about. They probably won't have much idea exactly who will be in our lineup until we post it, and we will always have the option of moving Betts to 2B during the game as part of a double switch. It gives Cora more options, and I like Cora having more options:

"The Red Sox used five lineups during the American League Championship Series. Only the top four spots — Mookie Betts, Andrew Benintendi, J.D. Martinez, and Xander Bogaerts — stayed the same. Rick Porcello and Nathan Eovaldi were used as starters and in relief. Matt Barnes, who pitched primarily in the eighth inning during the regular season, came into games in the fifth and sixth innings and twice in the seventh. Craig Kimbrel faced 11 batters in a game for the first time in his career. Sandy Leon, the team’s slowest runner, pinch-ran twice.
When manager Alex Cora told his players to be ready for anything in the postseason, he meant it."
 

ricopetro6

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I want no part of Mookie a 2B. Maybe he could handle all the plays, but the position isn't easy...lots going on. Maybe for an inning or 2 here and there, but not for the 3 entire games. I don't think the upside justifies such a drastic change.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Machado sliding.
This. The mere chance of Machado - as dirty a player in the game right now - spiking Mookie in the knee is enough reason to stick with Holt and Kinsler. The risk is too great.

Maybe if the series goes to 7 games, and Sale can’t pitch, Cora should do this. But I believe the Sox are going to run roughshod over whichever NL team they’re facing. Even with JBJ or Beni’s bat out of the lineup for a a few plate appearances, maybe we’re taking the championship in 5 games instead of 4.
 

pedro1918

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Re: Speier’s tweet

I have seen Mookie take ground balls at 2B on multiple occasions during batting practice. He did it in Baltimore and DC this season. In Baltimore, Price was playing SS.

I don’t like the idea of Mookie playing second. If it’s an emergency, you do what you have told. Short of that, no thanks.
 

geoduck no quahog

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How about Mookie pitches?

No one, including me, has even mentioned the possibility of Martinez sitting for one or two games.

I’d think Benintendi is the candidate to sit against a lefty, although I’m not familiar enough with Dodgers Stadium or Bad Beer Park to know which field is the toughest. My concern is that Bradley needs to help out Martinez in whatever corner he’s playing.

What a fucking shame to break up the best outfield in baseball because of a nonsensical rule. Most other AL teams would not have a big problem losing their DH. Cruz, Encanarcion and Davis don’t mess with team options as much as JD does.

Hypothetical: you need to sit either Betts or Martinez - your only choice. What do you do?
 

Time to Mo Vaughn

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How about Mookie pitches?

No one, including me, has even mentioned the possibility of Martinez sitting for one or two games.

I’d think Benintendi is the candidate to sit against a lefty, although I’m not familiar enough with Dodgers Stadium or Bad Beer Park to know which field is the toughest. My concern is that Bradley needs to help out Martinez in whatever corner he’s playing.

What a fucking shame to break up the best outfield in baseball because of a nonsensical rule. Most other AL teams would not have a big problem losing their DH. Cruz, Encanarcion and Davis don’t mess with team options as much as JD does.

Hypothetical: you need to sit either Betts or Martinez - your only choice. What do you do?
Sit Martinez no question.
 

timlinin8th

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This. The mere chance of Machado - as dirty a player in the game right now - spiking Mookie in the knee is enough reason to stick with Holt and Kinsler. The risk is too great.

Maybe if the series goes to 7 games, and Sale can’t pitch, Cora should do this. But I believe the Sox are going to run roughshod over whichever NL team they’re facing. Even with JBJ or Beni’s bat out of the lineup for a a few plate appearances, maybe we’re taking the championship in 5 games instead of 4.
Well, Game 7 being at Fenway means Mookie at 2B isn’t necessary.

The one benefit the Sox have regarding the Mookie at 2B thing is also because of the 2-3-2 format, they don’t have to decide on it until Friday. If the Sox take both games at Fenway I don’t think they risk Mookie at 2B at all, or maybe a single inning as part of a double switch as mentioned upthread.
 

NoXInNixon

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Another important question is whether Cora bats the pitcher #8 or #9. With Mookie leading off, it makes some sense to have JBJ right before him in the order instead of an automatic out. Especially since Leon is another automatic out. How many at bats do we want Mookie having with no men on base?
 

wiffleballhero

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Another factor here is that our starters have not shown that they are likely to pitch into the seventh. So what we are also talking about it really two pitcher ABs and then a stack of pinch hitting situations, all of which potentially include double switches.

So however Cora slices this up, it is likely to entail at least a couple variables (winning or trailing) and none of the decisions should be based on a pitcher going nine or a hitter inherently sitting a whole game/ the pitcher's spot sucking up more than two ABs.

I think I would be inclined to sit JBJ (despite what I have already written) to start the game and then sit JDM if we open up a meaningful lead or we are in the 8th or later with a lead of one or two.

But it also seems like this is all going to be granular in the situational assessment in those three games. Those three games (I think?) are going to be Eovaldi, Porcello and Sale. Except maybe some big-horse game from Eovaldi, I don't see any of these guys pitching the bottom of the seventh. If they bat in the sixth or fifth for their third AB and they are still in the game, it likely means the Sox are ahead and we can eat the out because that are also pitching well.
 

wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum
Also, I don't want to get too cute with the order. Bat the pitcher 9th. It is then just that much less likely to come up for a third AB before you want to pull the pitcher anyway.
 

The Raccoon

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Why stop there?

If the Red Sox had an unlimited amount of Mookies, how many would they play? And what is a better overall (offense + defense) lineup: 9 Mookies or regular lineup but no Mookie? I would put my money on the All-Mookie-Team...
 

Al Zarilla

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Pete Abraham‏Verified account @PeteAbe 36m36 minutes ago

Betts is working on turns at second base with Pedroia. And while it is true he works out in the infield often, it's usually at SS. Dodgers strike out a lot (8th in MLB) so this could be a time to shift Betts. They're obviously considering it.
Because the Dodgers strike out a lot makes it a good time to shift Betts (to 2B)? Does he mean they don’t put the ball into play as much and Mookie won’t be exposed as a far less experienced second baseman? If so, reaching....
 

Savin Hillbilly

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The wrong side of the bridge....
I think Betts goes to second, if at all, for one game only, and that's whichever game Buehler starts (presumably game 3 or 4) at Dodger, because he's the only RH in their playoff rotation. It makes no sense to move Betts off position to keep both Beni and JBJ in the lineup against a lefthander.
 

Byrdbrain

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Also, I don't want to get too cute with the order. Bat the pitcher 9th. It is then just that much less likely to come up for a third AB before you want to pull the pitcher anyway.
Agreed, since there will be a pitcher hitting 9th I would assume they will move Vazquez to 8th and JBJ 7th since there isn't the JBJ to Mookie bridge.
 

mfried

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Kinsler at 2nd vs. LH pitchers, Betts in center, JDM in right
Holt at 2nd vs. RH pitchers, JDM starts on bench, reserved for quick/early PH with runners on base, then Betts in center, JDM in right; sadly JBJ on bench.
 

dhappy42

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Not sure what all the anxiety is about re Betts at 2nd. He was a second basemen until a few years ago. It’s not something you forget how to do. He’s an incredibly athletic player. He likely just needs a few hours of grounders, some footwork practice and to brush up on positioning (shifts, etc.) It’s not like trying to teach Hanley to play LF or 1B. I’d bet he’s an above-average 2Bman defensively right now, as good as Holt, better than Nunez and not far behind Kinsler.
 

RIrooter09

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Kinsler at 2nd vs. LH pitchers, Betts in center, JDM in right
Holt at 2nd vs. RH pitchers, JDM starts on bench, reserved for quick/early PH with runners on base, then Betts in center, JDM in right; sadly JBJ on bench.
JDM is not starting any games on the bench.
 

oumbi

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I want no part of Mookie a 2B. Maybe he could handle all the plays, but the position isn't easy...lots going on. Maybe for an inning or 2 here and there, but not for the 3 entire games. I don't think the upside justifies such a drastic change.
Mookie played 230 games at second base in the minor leagues.While he only has 15 games at 2B in the majors, I am not sure the position is alien to him, he could very well be able to handle the challenge for two games.
 

Dewey'sCannon

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I think Betts goes to second, if at all, for one game only, and that's whichever game Buehler starts (presumably game 3 or 4) at Dodger, because he's the only RH in their playoff rotation. It makes no sense to move Betts off position to keep both Beni and JBJ in the lineup against a lefthander.
I think this is the most likely. With three of the four LA SPs as lefties, Either Beni or JBJ will be out of the starting lineup. But against Bueler, that might be the time to think about Mookie at 2b. I think it's 50/50, and might depend on who wins the first two games.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Well, Bueler isn’t going in first two games so I don’t see either of those two sitting against a lefty, as they don’t have a RHH to backfill DH if you put JD in the OF, at least one that’s substantially better to offset the defensive loss.

IMO, you play as is for first two games and if JBJ is still swinging a hot bat, I think you have to consider doing it, pending how Benny is looking as well.

And fake edit, I now see you weren’t talking about the first two games, but I’ll leave it to show me no read sometimes so good.
 

DJnVa

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Kinsler at 2nd vs. LH pitchers, Betts in center, JDM in right
Holt at 2nd vs. RH pitchers, JDM starts on bench, reserved for quick/early PH with runners on base, then Betts in center, JDM in right; sadly JBJ on bench.
Our starting point should be the info we know to be true. And that is that Martinez is starting every game.
 

DJnVa

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I like the idea of Betts at 2b, and I want to BELIEVE, but I think there is some interpretation going on there and that Cora hasn't made any comment himself that JD is starting all 3 games.

That's a direct quote from Cora.

"(Betts) already played second in the regular season. There's always a chance," said Cora. "We've got some pretty good second basemen, we've got some pretty good outfielders. Like I said, we're in the World Series. That conversation was gonna come up. One thing for sure, J.D. will play. That's clear. We'll see which alignment is better, which lineup is better and we'll make decisions accordingly."
I guess he didn't specifically say "JD Martinez is starting every game of of the World Series" but when asked about lineups in NL parks and guys sitting he says "JD will play. That's for sure."
 

DJnVa

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Quote isn't exactly confirmation that JD Martinez will start all three away games though.
Okay.

I mean, I know this is SoSH and we split every hair, but dude was asked who will sit because JD is the DH and his response is about moving Betts to 2B and saying "JD will play, for sure", but yes, he didn't specifically say those words.
 
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PaulinMyrBch

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I took that full quote to mean that JD is playing and that either an outfielder or second baseman sits. The context seemed pretty obvious when he mentions those positions and follows it with “one thing for sure, JD will play...”

IMO, JD starting is a given, who pitches which NL games probably goes a long way to determining who will actually sit. Which is why he isn’t saying that yet.
 
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This. The mere chance of Machado - as dirty a player in the game right now - spiking Mookie in the knee is enough reason to stick with Holt and Kinsler. The risk is too great.


Maybe if the series goes to 7 games, and Sale can’t pitch, Cora should do this. But I believe the Sox are going to run roughshod over whichever NL team they’re facing. Even with JBJ or Beni’s bat out of the lineup for a a few plate appearances, maybe we’re taking the championship in 5 games instead of 4.
While playing three games the likelihood of Machado getting a shot at Betts is about zero. Has Machado injured other 2nd basemen besides Pedroia?

If we put Mookie behind the plate I would worry about Machado braining him with his back swing, though.