Liverpool 2020-2021: Jurgen's Heroes

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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From driving down property values around Anfield in order to snap it up for expansion, to furloughing employees just after COVID broke out, to the shambolic proposition of Project Big Picture, it's clear FSG have never grasped the socialist roots of LFC's past - using the term as a positive, rather than the four-letter-word connotation that regressives here in the US assign to it.

With that in mind, another disturbingly out-of-touch allegation against our net spend champions... LFC staff reliant on charities to survive lockdown. As an LFC member for over a decade... not feeling too hot about the decision to renew this year.
As an Everton fan I join you in this, not in a way to take a potshot at LFC but to agree with you as someone who has learned a lot about Liverpool the city.

It's time to realize that Henry, as a guy who made his fortune as a quant, is kind of a robot. His wiki entry even says that his commodities trading methods were designed to "make mechanical, non-discretionary trading decisions in response to systematic determinations of reversals in each market's direction, with the explicit intention of precluding not only human emotion, but also any subjective evaluation of factors outside of price behavior (such as the so-called fundamentals), to trigger each decision to be long or short each market, or not."ion

Henry's bedside manner as custodian of the Red Sox' public trust, as it were, is atrocious. His administration did usher in the positive changes to Fenway, but that can be attributed more to LL and JM Smith than to Henry - he gets credit for putting the right people in those jobs. But so many other things, like the character assassination of good people on their way out of town, have shown that he just doesn't get the idea of a fan culture or an emotional connection between a team and its fans.

And that's for an American sport that he grew up watching. The club culture of English football, where loyalty and integration into the community and accordingly fans' demands on their clubs run so much deeper than for even the most beloved American franchises - there's NFW he understands, as his misfires with LFC show.

He's fucking C3PO.
 

fletcherpost

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From driving down property values around Anfield in order to snap it up for expansion, to furloughing employees just after COVID broke out, to the shambolic proposition of Project Big Picture, it's clear FSG have never grasped the socialist roots of LFC's past - using the term as a positive, rather than the four-letter-word connotation that regressives here in the US assign to it.

With that in mind, another disturbingly out-of-touch allegation against our net spend champions... LFC staff reliant on charities to survive lockdown. As an LFC member for over a decade... not feeling too hot about the decision to renew this year.
Meanwhile Rashford is still taking on the government.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
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Jul 22, 2006
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From driving down property values around Anfield in order to snap it up for expansion, to furloughing employees just after COVID broke out, to the shambolic proposition of Project Big Picture, it's clear FSG have never grasped the socialist roots of LFC's past - using the term as a positive, rather than the four-letter-word connotation that regressives here in the US assign to it.

With that in mind, another disturbingly out-of-touch allegation against our net spend champions... LFC staff reliant on charities to survive lockdown. As an LFC member for over a decade... not feeling too hot about the decision to renew this year.
Given that I always complain about the lack of self awareness from Liverpool fans, I appreciate this post very much.
It sucks to be put in these dilemmas as a sports fan...
 

67YAZ

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Haven’t played since the pandemic started, but maybe this is my chance to break into the Liverpool squad.

Yes, I’m trying to cope.
 

PedroSpecialK

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It's Midtjylland, but Rhys Williams hasn't really placed a foot wrong tonight. Hope it doesn't come down to playing him in the league, gotta hope Matip's back for City at least
 

SoxFanInCali

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Jota fits right in, it looks like.
Yeah, I knew he could provide some scoring, but I was very impressed with his pressing and grasp of the team concepts in the Sheffield United game. And like the rest of the front 3, he appears to be comfortable anywhere across the line.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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So .. Jota’ superb performance so far has to be giving Klopp a bit of a selection conundrum. Does he start Jota at City? It wasn’t just his scoring (strikers that score? Who knew?) but his intensity and movement that seemed to ignite Mane and Salah as well. That’s the liveliest Pool have looked since the Leicester game in January.
 

67YAZ

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So .. Jota’ superb performance so far has to be giving Klopp a bit of a selection conundrum. Does he start Jota at City? It wasn’t just his scoring (strikers that score? Who knew?) but his intensity and movement that seemed to ignite Mane and Salah as well. That’s the liveliest Pool have looked since the Leicester game in January.
I think you have to start Jota in his current form. I also think there is some combination of Firmino slowing down just a touch and opponents finally adjusting to his role that has blunted his effectiveness. Bobby has basically been non-stop sprinting for 5 years under Klopp (~2800 minutes per season) plus doing regular duty in Brazil's squad (~450 minutes per year). Rotating the frontline, keeping legs fresher, and throwing out different looks is a good plan right now.
 

SocrManiac

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Firmino has always been a player you couldn’t articulate your appreciation for post match. You just watched him during the game and knew he was a key cog.

He doesn’t have that right now. He’s not finding his press, he isn’t demonstrating otherworldly control and vision. He’s not closing the key passing lane for the keeper or the CB.

I think the good news is he hasn’t lost a skill that ages out. He’s in a bad run of form, making the wrong call and looking leggy. That will recover.

Jota can spell him while it does.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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So .. a point at City is an excellent result .. that being said I think it was a missed opportunity as City looked a far cry from their former imperious self.

Both teams seemed to completely run out of gas in the second half. Is this fixture congestion?

Didn’t look good for AA .. pulled calf muscle?

Another underwhelming display from Firmino .. he just looks old and slow right now.
 

PedroSpecialK

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I feel like it's tough for Liverpool to dictate a game like that unless they go full-tilt attacking 4-2-4 like they did in the first 25 minutes, obviously not sustainable for 90 with a team of City's quality. The absences of Fabinho and Thiago in midfield aren't unnoticed, there was just too much for Henderson and Wijnaldum to do and you saw them getting stretched on City's two big chances.

After half time, we saw them go back to a more conservative 4-2-3-1 with Shaqiri taking up the right side and Salah shifting centrally once Firmino came off. Milner for Trent was somewhat of a blessing, as City began to look really dangerous down the left and I thought Milner's defending and ability to read the play was exactly what Liverpool needed.

It just feels like once Thiago and Fabinho are back, Firmino will be freed up from some of his current duties to drop deeper and will begin getting more goal contributions. He had some good moments today, but was in a difficult spot positionally
 

swiftaw

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At least there's only ~7 weeks til January? Relying on Matip to stay fit is not where you wanna be.
Yeah, but 11 matches in that timespan:

Leicester [H]
Atalanta [H]
Brighton [A]
Ajax [H]
Wolves [H]
Midtjylland [A]
Fulham [A]
Tottenham [H]
Palace [A]
West Brom [H]
Newcastle [A]
 

SocrManiac

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At least he was only training for a friendly. Imagine if England would have needed him for one of these fake made up tournament games!
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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"There was nobody around him when the injury happened. I didn't like that element of it," added Southgate.

"We're hopeful for him that it's not what it might be, but it's not a good situation.
Of course when a guy goes down with no one near him it's usually the worst kind of soft-tissue injury.

there's far too many of these happening. Not enough training, not enough time off, too many fixtures, too tightly bunched together.

Between this and the COVID resurgence, they need to do something. Cut back on international, cancel or postpone the domestic cups, something. And 5 subs, much as I don't like it, or at least 4.
 

PedroSpecialK

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He went to his brother's wedding where there was no distancing, etc

That Liverpool are a point off the pace is pretty incredible given their injured / COVID 11 this year

Alisson
Trent - Van Dijk - Gomez - Tsimikas
Thiago - Fabinho - Keita
Oxlade-Chamberlain - Salah - Mane
 

67YAZ

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When meeting with the architects of the new training ground, Milner joked they should name a door after him. So they did.

 

PedroSpecialK

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Also is just down to the shitheadedness of having international matches during a pandemic. Brazil had a player test positive very early in this international break after he'd trained with the squad, it wouldn't be surprising to me at all if there was dormancy period between that player's positive test and someone else becoming an active carrier, eventually resulting in Firmino's positive test.

Salah returned another positive COVID test today, so I'm guessing the Sunday lineup is something like:

Alisson
Milner - Matip - Fabinho - Robertson
Wijnaldum - Thiago - Keita/Jones
Jota - Origi - Mane

edit: any sources on the Firmino COVID test? I know Gabriel Menino had tested positive last week but not seeing anything specific to Firmino

edit 2: looks like Thiago is out still, as is Fabinho, so it'll either be a Milner / Wijnaldum / Keita midfield with Neco Williams at RB, or Milner at RB with Wijnaldum / Keita / Jones in midfield. At CB, looking like Matip + one of Phillips/Rhys Williams up against............. Rebekah Vardy's husband.

Gonna be a shaky one no matter how you cut it.
 
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PedroSpecialK

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Reading the tea leaves, it's increasingly likely with ~3.5 weeks to go until he can sign a Bosman that Gini Wijnaldum will not extend his Liverpool contract. Given the £75,000 weekly wages he's coming off, the emergence of Curtis Jones, and the other relative midfield depth in the squad with Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Keita, Cain, etc it's tough to argue with the club's decision to not match what will assuredly be a >200% increase in his wages, especially with clubs like Barcelona sniffing around as a free transfer destination.

That being said, having a midfielder who can start 10 matches in 33 days and play >60' in all but one of them (including internationals) is nearly unheard of these days - and invaluable for a club with Liverpool's level of fixture congestion and squad attrition. Not to mention the fact that I don't believe Wijnaldum has ever officially missed a match due to injury in his Liverpool career.

In the extremely unlikely event there is an EPL and/or UCL title in the cards for this season given the horrendous run of luck with injuries, Wijnaldum's durability during this 3 month stretch and beyond will be as big a reason as any for the club's success. I can't in a million years begrudge him for moving on, and think he'll go down as one of the most shrewd transfers in the club's history.
 

67YAZ

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Reading the tea leaves, it's increasingly likely with ~3.5 weeks to go until he can sign a Bosman that Gini Wijnaldum will not extend his Liverpool contract. Given the £75,000 weekly wages he's coming off, the emergence of Curtis Jones, and the other relative midfield depth in the squad with Henderson, Fabinho, Thiago, Oxlade-Chamberlain, Keita, Cain, etc it's tough to argue with the club's decision to not match what will assuredly be a >200% increase in his wages, especially with clubs like Barcelona sniffing around as a free transfer destination.

That being said, having a midfielder who can start 10 matches in 33 days and play >60' in all but one of them (including internationals) is nearly unheard of these days - and invaluable for a club with Liverpool's level of fixture congestion and squad attrition. Not to mention the fact that I don't believe Wijnaldum has ever officially missed a match due to injury in his Liverpool career.

In the extremely unlikely event there is an EPL and/or UCL title in the cards for this season given the horrendous run of luck with injuries, Wijnaldum's durability during this 3 month stretch and beyond will be as big a reason as any for the club's success. I can't in a million years begrudge him for moving on, and think he'll go down as one of the most shrewd transfers in the club's history.
it’s the durability plus the all-around brilliance. Over the years, Gini has played everything between CB and center forward. Last season, he completed 91% of passes over 40 attempts per match, completed more than a dribble per match, and 51 total tackles plus interceptions. Keep the ball, win the ball back, play every damn day.

So many players dream of Barca or Madrid. Careers are short, and if you have the opportunity to join one of those clubs, it’s almost impossible to pass up. Especially when they offer crazy wages.I get where Gini is coming from and hope he has great success as his career progresses.

For LFC’s part, I think they are appropriately adopting American mentality of letting players walk in free agency when the situation is right. Getting stuck with an overpaid player can be just as bad as losing a player for nothing. Being able to clearly see the a player’s value and how it fits into the squad as well as the wage structure is essential to sustaining success.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Jota out of contention for the Fulham match with a knee injury from the meaningless Midtjylland fixture... I'll never quite understand why he and Salah played the full 90 (aside from the last ~10 for Jota).

Shot in the dark lineup, with an eye towards Spurs in midweek:

Kelleher, N. Williams, R. Williams, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Jones, Mane, Firmino, Salah
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
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Jota out of contention for the Fulham match with a knee injury from the meaningless Midtjylland fixture... I'll never quite understand why he and Salah played the full 90 (aside from the last ~10 for Jota).

Shot in the dark lineup, with an eye towards Spurs in midweek:

Kelleher, N. Williams, R. Williams, Matip, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Jones, Mane, Firmino, Salah
Jota reportedly out two months? unreal
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Jota reportedly out two months? unreal
FFS FFS FFS

Still .. it’s a pain he was hurt in a meaningless game .. but .. he was still a backup .. and those are the games when backups play. The bigger mystery was Salah playing most of the game. I do understand that personnel are limited to those on the CL Eligible List .. it’s not like Klopp could call on some of the Academy younger players.

This is just the a Soccer Gods (either Loki or Hades or one of the nastier Irish gods .. Morrigan comes to mind) punishing Liverpool for having the temerity of winning the League. (And the other 18 times of course)
 

Dummy Hoy

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FFS FFS FFS

Still .. it’s a pain he was hurt in a meaningless game .. but .. he was still a backup .. and those are the games when backups play. The bigger mystery was Salah playing most of the game. I do understand that personnel are limited to those on the CL Eligible List .. it’s not like Klopp could call on some of the Academy younger players.

This is just the a Soccer Gods (either Loki or Hades or one of the nastier Irish gods .. Morrigan comes to mind) punishing Liverpool for having the temerity of winning the League. (And the other 18 times of course)
Or maybe attempting to teach humility?
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Or maybe attempting to teach humility?
Actually .. while being old I wasn’t much of a footie fan back in their 70s and 80s heyday (not on TV) .. I’m betting the fan base was universally loathed. ( the aforementioned 18 titles will do that). And probably with good reason. Even now a I find the Liverpool footie press to be pretty obnoxious. The Echo is really bad .. the Athletic (James Pearce) as well .

And I think a little crowing after 30 years in the wilderness is allowed.
 

Dummy Hoy

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Of course.

There’s a pretty compelling argument that Liverpool are the best team in the world over the last 3 years, and who wouldn’t be thrilled to be attached to that, especially because they’ve done it in such an aestheticly pleasing way.

But you guys can’t help yourself with your lack of self awareness; it’s not your fault, it’s just in the soul of the club. And it’s born out of love, which I recognize.
 

SocrManiac

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I do understand that personnel are limited to those on the CL Eligible List .. it’s not like Klopp could call on some of the Academy younger players.
The 23 man roster is fixed. List B is made up of youth academy players. Kids that have been in the system more than two years can play in CL matches without being on the main 23 man squad.
 

SocrManiac

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I learned of that this morning from my FB feed where a Scouser friend of mine posted "RIP Gerrard. #YNWA" It took me awhile to recover.