Liverpool 2021/2022 Jurgen’s Comeback Tour

Mighty Joe Young

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Normally this would be a very good thing as you’d think it would be junior varsity time. Of course the prize money for winning these games (> £2m ) seems to suggest that won’t happen. (See Jota / Mitdyland)
 

67YAZ

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Klopp says Bobby is down a month with a hamstring strain. Let’s hope he gets back in before the holiday crush.
 

67YAZ

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The squad is getting a bit thin.

Robbo might appeal, but seems unlikely to miss 3 matches.

Thiago, VVD, Fab, & Curtis Jones are in the COVID protocol. This is Thiago’s second stint.

The Captain is sick. Heres hoping he recovers quickly.

With AFCON still on the books and a couple alternate sites being floated, Salah, Mane, Kieta will be heading out hopefully after Chelsea on Jan 2.

Cameroon seems intent on calling up Matip to reinforce their squad as AFCON hosts despite Joel retiring from international duty in 2016.

Harvey Elliott’s rehab is supposedly going great, but he’s still a long ways off.
 

PedroSpecialK

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There's still that stupid stipulation that if Matip refuses to join Cameroon when called up that he'd be barred from playing EPL matches right?
 

67YAZ

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There's still that stupid stipulation that if Matip refuses to join Cameroon when called up that he'd be barred from playing EPL matches right?
I think this the issue in the negotiation. Cameroon obviously wants to show out as the host nation (at least for now), so they are trying to use whatever leverage to get Matip back in the squad. Shady as hell.

Also, Japan had to reschedule a couple WCQ matches for mid-January outside the normal international window, so Minamino is likely out for those.
 

swiftaw

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I've been visiting my parents in the UK. This week, ITV has aired a 4-part drama called Anne, about Anne Williams, mother of Kevin Williams who died at Hillsborough. I'm not sure if its available on any service in the US, but if it shows up I'd highly recommend watching it.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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So - the AFCON has been successfully navigated , through to the League Cup final, still in the FA cup and on the fringes of the the title race - win the game in hand and we are 6 back with a ginormous game at the Etihad - so, conceivably just 3 back.

Is it likely? Highly unlikely as they seem to be really inconsistent - particularly in midfield.

Doesn’t look like the Jan. Window will be of any use in that regards. A return to health of Thiago and eventually Elliot should be a major boost but still not enough IMO. A starting midfield of Fabinho, Henderson and Thiago is just not good enough - and the likelihood of them all staying healthy is minuscule.

Swap in a Keita, Jones or Elliot and it’s a lot more dynamic but at a defensive cost.



Still, all and all a very successful January - contrary to the doom and gloom prognostications.

Now get Salah signed !!!!
 

SocrManiac

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I'm more and more concerned about the stability of the back line.

Van Dijk is an absolute unit, but there's something off. I know I've talked about it in game threads and there might be a post in here as well, but he's missing the gear where he effortlessly outran anybody on the pitch. Palace was a defensive shitshow all around, but the concession was especially worrisome. It looked less like a miscommunication and more like VVD simply screwed up. Even not at his imperious best he's an incredible player, but adjustments need to be made. The high line becomes less effective and TAA/Robbo need to be leashed to some extent. It throws the entire side off.

That said, Alisson put on an absolutely stunning performance. The save that was called back for offside was one of the best you will ever see. It required reflexes, agility, and huge strength. His arm was extended and he managed to punch it up and over. Just incredible. In a more depressing timeline, that delayed flag leads to his elbow being dislocated for no reason. I hate that fucking rule.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I'm more and more concerned about the stability of the back line.

Van Dijk is an absolute unit, but there's something off. I know I've talked about it in game threads and there might be a post in here as well, but he's missing the gear where he effortlessly outran anybody on the pitch. Palace was a defensive shitshow all around, but the concession was especially worrisome. It looked less like a miscommunication and more like VVD simply screwed up. Even not at his imperious best he's an incredible player, but adjustments need to be made. The high line becomes less effective and TAA/Robbo need to be leashed to some extent. It throws the entire side off.

That said, Alisson put on an absolutely stunning performance. The save that was called back for offside was one of the best you will ever see. It required reflexes, agility, and huge strength. His arm was extended and he managed to punch it up and over. Just incredible. In a more depressing timeline, that delayed flag leads to his elbow being dislocated for no reason. I hate that fucking rule.
I here what you are saying about VVD. On the play where the Palace winger rounded Allison and had a gaping net VVD kind of nonchalantly meandered back - not even trying to cut him off. It seemed very odd. It’s almost as if he has lost that gear and doesn’t want to be exposed by trying and failing.

Matip has looked out of sorts as well the last couple of games. It’s like the whole team has a case of Long Covid. Just really off.

The thing about the high line is it really depends on the midfield - and forwards to a lesser extent - pressuring the opposition so they can’t look up and pick the optimum pass. If they have time and space you are down to hoping the offside trap works. When you get that wrong you’re screwed.
 
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67YAZ

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I here what you are saying about VVD. On the play where the Palace winger rounded Allison and had a gaping net VVD kind of nonchalantly meandered back - not even trying to cut him off. It seemed very odd. It’s almost as if he has lost that gear and doesn’t want to be exposed by trying and failing.

Matip has looked out of sorts as well the last couple of games. It’s like the whole team has a case of Long Covid. Just really off.

The thing about the high line is it really depends on the midfield - and forwards to a lesser extent - pressuring the opposition so they can’t look up and pick the optimum pass. If they have time and space you are down to hoping the offside trap works. When you get that wrong you’re screwed.
Strong agree on the last paragraph. I’ll add that the decline of Bobby has put more pressure on the midfielders, usually Fab, who has to do more coverage and anticipation in the middle of the pitch. But so it goes. Bobby wasn’t going to be able to lead the league in sprints forever.

With VVD, I have to think it’s some mix of physical and psychological. The fear of another catastrophic injury is often the last hurdle for a full recovery. Any twinge, ache, or stiffness can send an athlete spiraling.
 

SocrManiac

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Do we want Luis Diaz? My memories of playing against him are that he’s a Diego Costa disciple. Lots of shithousing, lots of diving, lots of nipping at heels… Undeniably talented, but a guy I’d find impossible to root for. I hope I’m wrong.
 

Pesky Pole

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Do we want Luis Diaz? My memories of playing against him are that he’s a Diego Costa disciple. Lots of shithousing, lots of diving, lots of nipping at heels… Undeniably talented, but a guy I’d find impossible to root for. I hope I’m wrong.
If he can play, I think we’ll make it past those things. We certainly managed with the last Luis (Suarez) that we had.
 

SocrManiac

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If he can play, I think we’ll make it past those things. We certainly managed with the last Luis (Suarez) that we had.
I never really did. I called loudly (and offensively) for him to be permanently banned on more than one occasion. It's sort of like Brad Marchand- even when he's wearing my rooting laundry I still can't stand him.

I hate it when Salah goes down easily or Mané flops, but at least that doesn't happen half a dozen times per match. If we have a guy that does that... Blech.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Do we want Luis Diaz? My memories of playing against him are that he’s a Diego Costa disciple. Lots of shithousing, lots of diving, lots of nipping at heels… Undeniably talented, but a guy I’d find impossible to root for. I hope I’m wrong.
Given Klopp’s general dislike of this style of football you have to think it would be drummed out of him. A little feistiness is good.

Regarding the Suarez memories … it was always difficult to be %100 supportive given the obvious flaws. The Brad Marchand comparison is spot on. I’m NOT a Bruins fan. and I can’t stand him but he sure can play. Local boy makes good indeed.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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So , LFC have sent a team to Argentina to do the medical so it’s a matter of logistics at this point. £50m (add ons included) seems like good business. So what does this mean for the incumbents if Diaz impresses.

Diaz is a left sided inverted winger .. sounds like a perfect Mane replacement. One assumes Mane will be moved on in the summer. His contract’s up in 2023 (18 months left) so it’s either re-sign or sell. I don’t see LFC coughing up the necessary cash to get that done given a replacement is in-house. Selling Mane could completely fund this move.

It also makes Minamino and/or Origi redundant so one, if not both would be moving on. Although I’ve always had a suspicion Origi will retire a Red if he wants to.

As for the remainder of the season I’d expect lots of rotation. Or they could play a 4-1-5 which would be all kinds of fun.
 

67YAZ

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Tough couple days for Mane. He also ended in the hospital after clashing heads in the last AFCON match.

This move is a little out of character for LFC. He’s 25, but has only been a full time starter for the past year. Usually the club is targeting guys with longer pedigrees and/or are a bit younger. But he’s been bringing it in the UCL this season, too.
 

CPT Neuron

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So , LFC have sent a team to Argentina to do the medical so it’s a matter of logistics at this point. £50m (add ons included) seems like good business. So what does this mean for the incumbents if Diaz impresses.

Diaz is a left sided inverted winger .. sounds like a perfect Mane replacement. One assumes Mane will be moved on in the summer. His contract’s up in 2023 (18 months left) so it’s either re-sign or sell. I don’t see LFC coughing up the necessary cash to get that done given a replacement is in-house. Selling Mane could completely fund this move.

It also makes Minamino and/or Origi redundant so one, if not both would be moving on. Although I’ve always had a suspicion Origi will retire a Red if he wants to.

As for the remainder of the season I’d expect lots of rotation. Or they could play a 4-1-5 which would be all kinds of fun.
As high up the pitch as Robbo and TAA play, it will be more of a 2-1-7!
 

67YAZ

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Diaz done, pictures of him holding up a shirt and all that. €40m base fee with add ins up to another €20m. Work permit paperwork still needs to get processed, so at least a week before he can see the pitch.
 

SocrManiac

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I’ve watched some Diaz videos and I remain very skeptical that Klopp and co will be able to unfuck this guy. Shithousery is just part of what makes him who he is. Even his highlight reels are filled with him going down without contact.

I hope I’m wrong and we all fall in love with the guy. I’m not much of a “score goals and all will be forgiven” type (See: Suarez, Luis).
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I’ve watched some Diaz videos and I remain very skeptical that Klopp and co will be able to unfuck this guy. Shithousery is just part of what makes him who he is. Even his highlight reels are filled with him going down without contact.

I hope I’m wrong and we all fall in love with the guy. I’m not much of a “score goals and all will be forgiven” type (See: Suarez, Luis).
Regarding Suarez, Luis … I didn’t particularly mind the exaggerated flopping and histrionics as they seemed to be a built in South American football cultural trait. He was an amazing offensive force with a stellar work rate. It was really the biting and racist stuff that really soured his image IMO.
 

SocrManiac

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Regarding Suarez, Luis … I didn’t particularly mind the exaggerated flopping and histrionics as they seemed to be a built in South American football cultural trait. He was an amazing offensive force with a stellar work rate. It was really the biting and racist stuff that really soured his image IMO.
I don’t separate the biting from the rest. It’s a natural extension of his other bullshit that given his overall lack of control.

The racism wasn’t the icing on the cake, it was a separate cake entirely.

But hey, I doubt Diaz is a biter, so there’s that.
 

allstonite

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I mean Mane is no angel and Salah is usually good but caught a case of the dives a few seasons ago. I’m hoping he can cut it out and still be successful but pretty much every team has these types of guys
 

SocrManiac

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I mean Mane is no angel and Salah is usually good but caught a case of the dives a few seasons ago. I’m hoping he can cut it out and still be successful but pretty much every team has these types of guys
Mané and Salah go down easily, but not every single time they touch the ball. Mané can get chippy, but he isn’t a fake hard that will simulate contact one second and take a cheap shot at somebody’s ankles the next. That’s what Diaz is right now. Diego Costa, Otamendi, Richarlison… This kid is one of those.

Porto was the perfect place for this him. Atletico Madrid would be the next logical “upgrade” destination since Simone seems to celebrate that behavior.
 

67YAZ

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Happy for Nat! I really hope he lands someplace where he can become a club legend and make plenty of cash.
 

PedroSpecialK

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Sounds like Carvalho broke down and didn't make it across the finish line - but that the door is open for him to sign a pre-contract and for Liverpool / Fulham to agree a fee to avoid a tribunal. Also sounds like the player wants to join LFC but who knows if the BVBs of the world come calling with bigger cash and more guaranteed minutes, given they are only subject to a £250k fee as a non-English club.

Worth noting that Elliott's tribunal fee was £4.3m, I'm assuming Carvalho's would be a shade north of that given his importance to this Fulham squad.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Sounds like Carvalho broke down and didn't make it across the finish line - but that the door is open for him to sign a pre-contract and for Liverpool / Fulham to agree a fee to avoid a tribunal. Also sounds like the player wants to join LFC but who knows if the BVBs of the world come calling with bigger cash and more guaranteed minutes, given they are only subject to a £250k fee as a non-English club.

Worth noting that Elliott's tribunal fee was £4.3m, I'm assuming Carvalho's would be a shade north of that given his importance to this Fulham squad.
I think only foreign teams can sign him to a pre-contract although I could be wrong. LFC have to hope he’s still keen on signing in the summer. It was reported that LFC was offering £10m to get it over the line. It remains to be seen what caused the breakdown. One suspects that Fulham was holding out for max pounds and when LFC finally caved it was too late. If that’s the case it was a pretty dumb tactic .. theoretically costing Fulham millions of pounds. And for LFC for that matter, leaving open the possibility he signs elsewhere.
 

67YAZ

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I think only foreign teams can sign him to a pre-contract although I could be wrong. LFC have to hope he’s still keen on signing in the summer. It was reported that LFC was offering £10m to get it over the line. It remains to be seen what caused the breakdown. One suspects that Fulham was holding out for max pounds and when LFC finally caved it was too late. If that’s the case it was a pretty dumb tactic .. theoretically costing Fulham millions of pounds. And for LFC for that matter, leaving open the possibility he signs elsewhere.
My working theory is that Fulham were ok with this falling apart because they bring LFC’s offer to the tribunal if & when Carvalho signs with another English team. But that does them fuckall if he signs with BVB & the club ends up with a flat £250k solidarity payment.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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So .. Diaz debuted today as left sided attacking midfielder. His scouting report shows this is not something new for him so maybe this is his path into the first team. With Elliot’s return the midfield is starting to get crowded.

Starting to think Elliot has to be in the starting 11. The “presumed” first choice midfield has been Fabinho , Henderson and Thiago. Not that that actually matters as a Thiago is always hurt. So, going forward I think Fabinho/Henderson/Elliot will be preferred. That’s a nice mix of control and creativity.

the lineup pecking order now is probably
GK
Allison
Kelleher
Adrian

CB
VVD
Matip
Konate
Gomez
Williams

FBs
AA
Robertson
Tsmikas
Beck

DM
Fabinho
Henderson
Thiago
Morton

AM
Elliot
Diaz
Keita
Jones
Ox

Forwards
Salah
Mane
Jota
Firmino
Diaz
Jones
Origi
Minamino
Gordon

Toast (and future Liverpool coach)
Milner

As for Diaz, I suspect there will be a lot of rotation up top. He’ll also get some minutes like his debut today … coming off the bench when a goal is needed.

I have no clue as to the long term plan concerning Mane and Firmino. (assuming they re-sign Salah). Trying to separate fact from reality with transfer rumours is a mugs game. But if I had to bet on one big money signing it would be Jude Bellingham. So, sell Mane to fund this. I’d offer another reasonable contract to Firmino. If he’s reluctant then he goes too.

Edit: I forgot about expected signing Carvallho . If Elliot kicks on then there’s every chance Bellingham will be considered too much of a Nice To Have. Particularly at that salary he’ll demand.
 
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67YAZ

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it will take a bit for Elliott to get back into top form, but from early in the season we know Klopp reveled in the threat posed by the Trent-Elliott-Salah right side. That suggests a more conservative left side - Henderson there and Fab at the base.

But health is going to be huge with a congested spring schedule.

I agree - Mane is likely the odd man out and Bobby is asked to take a back up role & salary. But that Salah deal has to get done.
 

SocrManiac

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Elliot and Diaz look to be much better late-game goal chasers than Minamino and, sadly, Origi. The look of the team when they return to full strength will be drastically different and will require different thinking from opponents. Different combinations of Mane, Jota, Salah, Diaz, Elliot, Firmino, and Origi will require significantly different defensive approaches, giving Klopp some flexibility in choosing a weakness to exploit.

Minamino would be best served being shot into the sun. He’s not just a black hole- he brings down the players around him. He’s not truly awful in the press, but on the attack he can’t find his position. He consistently creates double teams for the other side by dragging his defender toward the ball. He breaks up attacks by avoiding space. It’s staggering how bad he’s been and how he’s been utterly unable to improve.
 

67YAZ

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Elliot and Diaz look to be much better late-game goal chasers than Minamino and, sadly, Origi. The look of the team when they return to full strength will be drastically different and will require different thinking from opponents. Different combinations of Mane, Jota, Salah, Diaz, Elliot, Firmino, and Origi will require significantly different defensive approaches, giving Klopp some flexibility in choosing a weakness to exploit.

Minamino would be best served being shot into the sun. He’s not just a black hole- he brings down the players around him. He’s not truly awful in the press, but on the attack he can’t find his position. He consistently creates double teams for the other side by dragging his defender toward the ball. He breaks up attacks by avoiding space. It’s staggering how bad he’s been and how he’s been utterly unable to improve.
I wish we could harness the energy from your burning Minamino hatred so we could end climate change.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Any appearances Minamino gets going forward are probably more aimed at in increasing his value for a summer sale. If he’s playing out of necessity then something bad has happened.

I like his skill level , but as (strenuously) pointed out his situational awareness is abysmal. He’s never where he should be. It’s remarkable how this simple skill can’t seem to be taught with some players.
 
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SocrManiac

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I don't think Mo's behavior covered him in glory. In England he's fairly goofy, low-key, seemingly respectful, with the occasional dive. I don't know if it's the armband or an illustration of what AFCON meant to him, but he was far edgier and angrier. It's not fun seeing angry Mo Salah.
 

67YAZ

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I don't think Mo's behavior covered him in glory. In England he's fairly goofy, low-key, seemingly respectful, with the occasional dive. I don't know if it's the armband or an illustration of what AFCON meant to him, but he was far edgier and angrier. It's not fun seeing angry Mo Salah.
The entire squad acted like assholes during the tournament, from the Mo on down to the bench players and coaches. Queiroz seeming found advantage in constant douchbaggery as a tactic, and Egypt amped it up to 11 for the final. I’m very glad they weren’t rewarded with a win.

Senegal may have been a sloppy and wasteful yesterday, but at least they showed up to play.
 

PedroSpecialK

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As a noted Queiroz stan, I will say - he's going into that tournament with a squad that's clearly outside the top 4 in Africa in terms of actual talent, maybe outside the top 10 omitting Salah. It's how he got results with Iran against superior competition in Asia (though he never did win an AFC) and nearly got out of the group of death in 2018 - the talent disparity outside of Salah is such that if he sets up for anything but bedding in and counterattacking on mistakes, Egypt likely get eaten alive.

Queiroz however does not have a knack for picking a penalty shootout lineup.
 

67YAZ

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Sounds like Jota had an ankle issue at half time that prompted Bobby to come on. No word on severity yet, but Klopp made it sound like a sprain. Ox also seemed to have tweaked something in warmups?
 

SocrManiac

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I’m not ready to eat all of my crow yet, but so far Diaz looks electric. He’s limited the bullshit more than I’d thought possible. We’ve yet to see how he’ll behave when things aren’t going his way, however, so we’ll wait to declare him shithouse-free. His movement looks good, his ball control and passing look great, and he seems to have some license to move around more than the role traditionally has.