Manny Machado, Malicious Menace.

Snodgrass'Muff

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So this past weekend has not cast a good light on Manny Machado.  
 


But age is no excuse for his bush league move in Sunday's 11-1 loss to the Oakland Athletics in which he clearly, with intention and deliberate action, attempted to throw his bat at Oakland pitcher Fernando Abad. The bat ended up flying down the third-base line instead of toward the pitcher's mound, though Machado claimed the bat slipped out of his hands. No one is buying that piece of fiction: Machado should be suspended for at least five games.
 


Machado's bat throwing was the culmination of a series of events that began Friday night, when Athletics third baseman Josh Donaldson tagged out Machado on a ground ball with two outs in the third inning, leading to a benches-clearing incident when Machado took exception to the play. Normally, the third baseman throws to first on that play, and the tag appeared to catch Machado off-balance and he flung his helmet to the ground as he fell and had words with Donaldson. But Donaldson didn't do anything improper; he obviously has the right to tag Machado.
 


Earlier in the game, Machado hit A's catcher Derek Norris with a backswing. Then in the sixth inning, Machado whiffed on a pitch with another exaggerated follow-through that hit Norris on the top of his helmet and knocked him from the game.
 
Now, I disagree that he was trying to hit Abad with the bat.  If he was aiming at anyone it makes more sense that he would have been aiming at Donaldson.  Regardless, this is bizarre and has to lead to some kind of disciplinary action, doesn't it?
 

glennhoffmania

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I was just going to post about these incidents.  He appears to be somewhat of a jackass.  And when he three the bat I think it was Callaspo playing 3B so that would make even less sense.
 

RG33

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The kicker was that Donaldson was already out of the game, and Alberto Callaspo was at third. I thought it was pretty blatant, and wouldn't be surprised by a 10 game suspension. Just plain stupid.
 

MakMan44

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It's being discussed in the game thread but yeah, Machado is going to be suspended and he should be. 
 

wibi

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Snodgrass'Muff said:
Now, I disagree that he was trying to hit Abad with the bat.  If he was aiming at anyone it makes more sense that he would have been aiming at Donaldson.  Regardless, this is bizarre and has to lead to some kind of disciplinary action, doesn't it?
 
Have you watched the video?  He started his swing after the ball was already in the catchers mitt
 

DJnVa

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I was listening on the radio to the O's broadcast and they hought it was directed toward Abad and Abad was ejected for intentionally throwing at him and pinned and they blame on the pitcher initially. Whether he was throwing it at the P or 3B doesn't really change the equation either way though.
 
As to Donaldson not being at 3B, it's possible Machado didn't know Donaldson had left the game.
 
 
Everyone's favorite manager Buck Showalter had this to say:
 
“I thought Manny handled it better than someone with some experience [would],” he said. “It was also a good experience for him to have. He cares. It’s a learning experience for all of us.”
 
 
 
Oh, and yes, no one needs to remind us that Trot Nixon did something like this once too.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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I was more suggesting that the claim he was aiming at the pitcher is a bit weird as the bat didn't end up anywhere near him.  But I did miss that it wasn't Donaldson at third, so either way it's just weird.  I think he let go of the bat intentionally, I just can't get my head around what his thought process could have been in letting it fly toward third, beyond the need to get yourself into the mental state needed to think letting the bat go in the first place.
 

glennhoffmania

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DrewDawg said:
I was listening on the radio to the O's broadcast and they clearly thought it was directed toward Abad and Abad was ejected for intentionally throwing at him. Doesn't really change the equation either way though.
 
However, everyone's favorite manager Buck Showalter had this to say:
 
 
He's insufferable.  Why does it seems that AL East managers are generally assholes?  Or is it just because I tend to hate those teams more?  I don't think one could find three managers who can out-asshole Maddon, Showalter and Girardi.
 

RG33

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Snodgrass'Muff said:
I was more suggesting that the claim he was aiming at the pitcher is a bit weird as the bat didn't end up anywhere near him.  But I did miss that it wasn't Donaldson at third, so either way it's just weird.  I think he let go of the bat intentionally, I just can't get my head around what his thought process could have been in letting it fly toward third, beyond the need to get yourself into the mental state needed to think letting the bat go in the first place.
I think he was aiming for 3B, and the fact that he didn't realize Donaldson was out of the game makes it even stupider.

And Showalter remains an ass.
 

Robbie Rayzor

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Total bush league, bullshit move and Machado hitting Norris in the head is worse than the bat throw (as hard as that is to believe). One thing is certain-this dickhead can be easily taken off his game with some inside heat and he should be thrown at consistently....I foresee a memorable meltdown where he tries to kill some one with a bat in the not-too-distant future.
 

Average Reds

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Finally saw the video of this.
 
Combine this with his pissy reaction to being tagged on Friday and I can only conclude that Manny Machado is somehow related to Steve Coburn.  And Buck's comment is amusing, in a delusional sort of way.
 
The video of the bat toss is ridiculous.  As wibi says, the ball was in the catcher's mitt and then Machado lets fly.  Feel like he'll be sitting for a minimum of 10 games when his weekend is looked at in totality.
 

Bigpupp

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I hadn't seen the video of him hitting Norris. I know David Ortiz hits people on his backswing every now and then but he is always quick to check on the catcher and apologize. Machado honestly looked like he didn't know it had happened. It's obviously not as bad as getting pissy about the tag and throwing his bat, but it just adds to a weekend where he comes of looking like a piece of shit.
 

SoxJox

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Manny, say hello to your new neighbors...
 
Albert Belle (across the street)
 
Milton Bradley (3 doors down)
 
Roberto Alomar (next door)
 
Carl Everett (in your own basement)
 
Even our own A.J. Pierzynski (hell, he's sub-letting YOUR condo!)
 

findguapo

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He hit Norris twice - here is the video, with a Norris interview providing the audio:
 
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v33566833/oakbal-norris-on-getting-hit-on-head-with-bat-twice
 
I know there is no way to prove it, but I think he hit Norris with the backswing on purpose. He did not react at all to making contact with Norris either time, like he expected it. I think his nonchalance (at the least) of hitting a catcher twice with a bat, as well as him throwing the bat onto the field, deserves a 10 game suspension.
 

Papo The Snow Tiger

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Manny, say hello to your new neighbors...
 
Albert Belle (across the street)
 
Milton Bradley (3 doors down)
 
Roberto Alomar (next door)
 
Carl Everett (in your own basement)
 
Even our own A.J. Pierzynski (hell, he's sub-letting YOUR condo!)
You forgot David Price (backyard neighbors)
 

Hendu for Kutch

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findguapo said:
He hit Norris twice - here is the video, with a Norris interview providing the audio:
 
http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266/v33566833/oakbal-norris-on-getting-hit-on-head-with-bat-twice
 
I know there is no way to prove it, but I think he hit Norris with the backswing on purpose. He did not react at all to making contact with Norris either time, like he expected it. I think his nonchalance (at the least) of hitting a catcher twice with a bat, as well as him throwing the bat onto the field, deserves a 10 game suspension.
 
He did react - with a smile while Norris was getting looked at.  That's beyond douchey and heading into sociopath territory.
 

LogansDad

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Yeah, this is awful stuff.  It sucks, because he is a really talented kid, who is fun to watch outside of this... but he appears to have gone full Subban.
 

Average Reds

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Hendu for Kutch said:
 
He did react - with a smile while Norris was getting looked at.  That's beyond douchey and heading into sociopath territory.
 
What an epic asshole Machado is.
 
Perhaps the only upside to this entire weekend is that we might not hear Buck lecturing others about "the right way to play the game" for a bit.
 

JimBoSox9

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Average Reds said:
 
Perhaps the only upside to this entire weekend is that we might not hear Buck lecturing others about "the right way to play the game" for a bit.
This is a ha-ha funny joke and I laughed.
 

glennhoffmania

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Demotion possible?
 
As the Orioles await word on whether Major League Baseball will suspend Manny Machado, they face their own pressing decision on the struggling third baseman.
 
Should they demote Machado to the minors?
 
“That’s always an option,” general manager Dan Duquette told FOX Sports on Tuesday. “The guy distinguished himself in the big leagues last year. We’d much rather see him develop his skills here. But that’s always an option.”
 
 

MakMan44

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https://twitter.com/TBrownYahoo/status/476418615143456769
 
Feels a little light to be honest.
 

glennhoffmania

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So Workman gets more games for retaliating than Machado gets for hurling a bat at a player standing less than 60 feet away.
 

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glennhoffmania said:
So Workman gets more games for retaliating than Machado gets for hurling a bat at a player standing less than 60 feet away.
 
starting pitcher vs everyday player
 

glennhoffmania

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Yeah I get that, but there's always been sort of a disconnect when it comes to suspensions of pitchers.  Workman doesn't even need to miss a start.  He just gets pushed back.  But considering that Price got zero and Machado got five, I felt like venting.
 

Jaylach

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Snodgrass'Muff said:
Well, to be fair, Workman will miss one start and Machado would miss 5.
 
Edit: E5 beat me to it.
 
I see this said all the time and it gets under my skin alittle. Yes, Workman will only miss 1 start and Manny will miss 5 but they will both miss the same amount of time (in relation to their entire year), assuming Workman starts 30 games and Machado starts 150 games.
 
(1 / 30 * 100 = 3.33%
(5 / 150) * 100 = 3.33%
 
Workman got just as big of a suspension as Machado. How fair you view that probably depends on if you believe Machado hit Norris with his backswing on purpose (twice). 
 

MakMan44

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Jaylach said:
 
I see this said all the time and it gets under my skin alittle. Yes, Workman will only miss 1 start and Manny will miss 5 but they will both miss the same amount of time (in relation to their entire year), assuming Workman starts 30 games and Machado starts 150 games.
 
(1 / 30 * 100 = 3.33%
(5 / 150) * 100 = 3.33%
 
Workman got just as big of a suspension as Machado.
The problem with this is that their contributions are not parallel. Having a replacement level 3rd baseman for 5 games is worse than having a replacement level starter for 1. Yes, in relation to their respective years, it's equal but position players suspension are more likely to have an impact on the team.
 

jon abbey

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Jaylach said:
 
I see this said all the time and it gets under my skin alittle. Yes, Workman will only miss 1 start and Manny will miss 5 but they will both miss the same amount of time (in relation to their entire year), assuming Workman starts 30 games and Machado starts 150 games.
 
(1 / 30 * 100 = 3.33%
(5 / 150) * 100 = 3.33%
 
Workman got just as big of a suspension as Machado. How fair you view that probably depends on if you believe Machado hit Norris with his backswing on purpose (twice). 
 
That's not really true, though, because theoretically Workman could start a game, serve his suspension, and start two days later than he would have otherwise. The SP equivalent to a 5 game suspension for an everyday player would be 9 games, that would ensure they miss one full turn. 
 
I'm also surprised Machado didn't get more given the whole chain of events, I personally don't believe that it was a coincidence that he hit Norris on his backswing twice in the same AB when Norris hadn't been hit before all year (so it's not like he has a pattern of cheating up or something). 
 

Jaylach

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The two above me both make really good points. And while this is probably a question for a different (new?) thread - should the MLB really care if the impact of missing a 3rd baseman for 5 games is bigger than the impact of missing a starter for 1 game? The suspension is really about the player, and if that player plays a bigger role on the team then they are responsible for making their team "suffer" more, not the MLB (IMO).
 
In terms of lost pay, though, it's all pretty much equivalent (well, as equivalent the shoot-from-hip MLB suspension system can be, lol).  
 

MakMan44

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Jaylach said:
The two above me both make really good points. And while this is probably a question for a different (new?) thread - should the MLB really care if the impact of missing a 3rd baseman for 5 games is bigger than the impact of missing a starter for 1 game? The suspension is really about the player, and if that player plays a bigger role on the team then they are responsible for making their team "suffer" more, not the MLB (IMO).
I agree that it's about the player. The problem is starters can, as JA pointed out, find ways to basically negate the suspension. That's what needs to be fixed IMO. 
 

Toe Nash

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The high horses in this thread are pretty funny. He's 21.
 
I pretty much agree with Neyer's column:
 
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/manny-machado-orioles-suspension-bat-throwing-derek-norris-061014
 
 
I think people wrote that Machado was mature because he seemed mature, and now they’re writing that he’s immature because he’s seemed so immature. Not because of the clicks to be had, but because we tend to remember what we’ve seen most recently. And also because we usually forget or ignore that human beings are complex creatures, perfectly capable of a mature act one moment and an immature act the next. I just proved that yesterday!*
* You probably did, too. Think about it for a couple of minutes.

Joe’s central point is spot-on: Manny Machado isn’t the wise sage of a year ago, nor the petulant crybaby of last weekend. He’s somewhere in the middle, just like the rest of us. He deserves a suspension, and then he deserves to get on with his life. And next time he’ll do better, I’ll bet.
 

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Bigpupp said:
I hadn't seen the video of him hitting Norris. I know David Ortiz hits people on his backswing every now and then but he is always quick to check on the catcher and apologize. Machado honestly looked like he didn't know it had happened. It's obviously not as bad as getting pissy about the tag and throwing his bat, but it just adds to a weekend where he comes of looking like a piece of shit.
I don't know if you saw the stretch of video that MLB network showed where Machado, was smirking as he stood there while the A's trainer looked after Norris.  We can't read the guy's thoughts but that was a *really* bad time to be caught smirking.
 

bankshot1

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Is the monetary fine (if any) based on the length of suspension, (# games /162,) or is the fine (if any) independent of the # of games suspended? The point being the more you make the more of a monetary hit you take.
.
 

JimBoSox9

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Toe Nash said:
The high horses in this thread are pretty funny. He's 21.
 
I pretty much agree with Neyer's column:
 
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/manny-machado-orioles-suspension-bat-throwing-derek-norris-061014
 
 
Practically an aside, but it boggles my mind that the fixation is totally on the bat throw to 3B and the backswings are an afterthought.  Hitting the catcher is 1000x more awful a thing to do than throwing the bat, it's more forceful and more dangerous and there's no chance of getting out of the way.  It's pretty tough to do twice accidentally, because it's all you're thinking about for the second swing.  
 
That said, I agree with the take.  He's scuffling, the team is eh, he had a brain outage.  If that was his biggest asshole day of his year, he's probably still an OK dude.  We'll know for sure by 2020 or so.
 

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JimBoSox9 said:
 
Practically an aside, but it boggles my mind that the fixation is totally on the bat throw to 3B and the backswings are an afterthought.  Hitting the catcher is 1000x more awful a thing to do than throwing the bat, it's more forceful and more dangerous and there's no chance of getting out of the way.  It's pretty tough to do twice accidentally, because it's all you're thinking about for the second swing.  
 
That said, I agree with the take.  He's scuffling, the team is eh, he had a brain outage.  If that was his biggest asshole day of his year, he's probably still an OK dude.  We'll know for sure by 2020 or so.
 
The hell with that.  He had four separate brain outages (initial ridiculous freak-out over the initial tag play, 2x hitting the catcher with his bat, and the bat throw).  They happened over 2 separate days and multiple innings within the same day.  This wasn't a spur of the moment flip out.  Any one of them would be worth a shrug of the shoulders and a quick "asshole" comment and then be forgotten.  But four?
 
And all of that totally discounts the smile.  He was smirking about injuring another player.  We've all had moments where we wanted to lash out and maybe even did so.  But I don't recall ever being satisfied or happy that I hurt a person who wasn't even the reason I was pissed off.  That was some seriously cold shit, and even as  a 21 year old I would have thought that was some cold shit.
 

edoug

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Hendu for Kutch said:
 
The hell with that.  He had four separate brain outages (initial ridiculous freak-out over the initial tag play, 2x hitting the catcher with his bat, and the bat throw).  They happened over 2 separate days and multiple innings within the same day.  This wasn't a spur of the moment flip out.  Any one of them would be worth a shrug of the shoulders and a quick "asshole" comment and then be forgotten.  But four?
 
And all of that totally discounts the smile.  He was smirking about injuring another player.  We've all had moments where we wanted to lash out and maybe even did so.  But I don't recall ever being satisfied or happy that I hurt a person who wasn't even the reason I was pissed off.  That was some seriously cold shit, and even as  a 21 year old I would have thought that was some cold shit.
And he's appealing the suspension which should have been at least twice as long.
 

Average Reds

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JimBoSox9 said:
 
Practically an aside, but it boggles my mind that the fixation is totally on the bat throw to 3B and the backswings are an afterthought.  Hitting the catcher is 1000x more awful a thing to do than throwing the bat, it's more forceful and more dangerous and there's no chance of getting out of the way.  It's pretty tough to do twice accidentally, because it's all you're thinking about for the second swing.  
 
That said, I agree with the take.  He's scuffling, the team is eh, he had a brain outage.  If that was his biggest asshole day of his year, he's probably still an OK dude.  We'll know for sure by 2020 or so.
 
That would excuse any one of these instances.  But Machado basically acted like a spoiled child for an entire weekend, so I can't really buy this.
 
Honestly, I think most of the criticism should go to Buck and the coaching staff.  Shouldn't the legendary arbiter of all that is good, holy and proper about baseball have taken a few minutes to tell him to calm down and/or grow up?
 

Mighty Joe Young

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He hit AJP last night on a backswing as well .. and didn't seem too troubled by it (of course it was AJP)

He has a long loopy swing sometimes .. Easy to see why catchers are getting bonked. Mind you those looked intentional on the weekend.
 

canderson

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He's appealing this suspension. It was light to begin with, I'm somewhat surprised (although playing division rivals I guess is important for them).