Mark Bellhorn: Hero or zero?

Tim Salmon

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Oct 24, 2005
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No, it's really not.
OK, I yield. Bellhorn happened to be the #2 hitter in someone's off-the-top-of-the-head list of four lineups that were in the running for best 1-4 of all-time, but no one was actually suggesting Bellhorn was an all-time great #2 hitter. Just that he was good enough in conjunction with Damon, Ortiz, and Manny to hold his own in a grouping with 1-4 of Duran, Soto, Devers, and Vlad Jr.
 

LeoCarrillo

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Oct 13, 2008
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OK, I yield. Bellhorn happened to be the #2 hitter in someone's off-the-top-of-the-head list of four lineups that were in the running for best 1-4 of all-time, but no one was actually suggesting Bellhorn was an all-time great #2 hitter. Just that he was good enough in conjunction with Damon, Ortiz, and Manny to hold his own in a grouping with 1-4 of Duran, Soto, Devers, and Vlad Jr.
An apology would be nice.
 

LogansDad

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Nov 15, 2006
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Mark Bellhorn hit one of the most beautiful, soul crushing home runs in Red Sox, and Yankee, history.

That homerun alone should prevent him from ever having to pay for a drink or meal in Boston ever again.

"I think that's the worst sound I've ever heard."

View: https://youtu.be/9Ehw7iThgmU?si=38bTsRIBdnXKtVWs&t=7435
When the original Bellhorn hating post was made, my first thought was, "Wow, that's going to go over like a 'THUNK' in here", and that sound is the specific one that was in my head at the time.
 

Tim Salmon

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Oct 24, 2005
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An apology would be nice.
To Bellhorn? No apology necessary. The nicest thing I'll say is that I was pleasantly floored when he made contact with that 1-2 pitch in Game 6 of the ALCS.

To all the people who were offended that I remember Bellhorn more for his entire career than for the highlights of his aberrant 2004 season? Yes, I'm sorry.
 

CKDexterHaven

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Dec 19, 2023
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Eh, this was pretty damn close:





The implication seemed to be that it's a stretch to include Duran (8.7 bWAR; 6.5 oWAR last year) in a best 1-4 of all-time conversation with Soto, Devers, and Vlad Jr.... but Bellhorn could be in the conversation for his 2004 (3.7 bWar; 3.5 oWAR). Sure, everything I've said about Bellhorn being a total drain is tongue-in-cheek, but I stand by my point that he was worse than people remember.

Somebody used cWPA to help advance the SABRmetric case for his performance in the playoffs that year. Even I would have assumed Bellhorn would have a positive cWPA for his homeruns in the ALCS, but cWPA has him as a negative for both the ALDS and ALCS.
I prolly should have qualified my off-the-cuff post—I was really only considering ‘modern era’ lineups. Of course the 1881 Albany Parallelograms lineup of Tater McFarland - Whitney “Whitey” Sinclair - Grandpa Gennero - and Blind Biffy Munroe would have been better.
 

I Miss Maalox

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Nov 1, 2013
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To Bellhorn? No apology necessary. The nicest thing I'll say is that I was pleasantly floored when he made contact with that 1-2 pitch in Game 6 of the ALCS.

To all the people who were offended that I remember Bellhorn more for his entire career than for the highlights of his aberrant 2004 season? Yes, I'm sorry.
My question is:
Would you go halfsies on a pizza with him?
 

cantor44

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Dec 23, 2020
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To Bellhorn? No apology necessary. The nicest thing I'll say is that I was pleasantly floored when he made contact with that 1-2 pitch in Game 6 of the ALCS.

To all the people who were offended that I remember Bellhorn more for his entire career than for the highlights of his aberrant 2004 season? Yes, I'm sorry.
In your defense Tim Salmon, you're entitled to your opinion. Disagreement and vigorous disagreement is part of the purpose of this site, though hopefully never at the expense of disrespecting anyone. Bellhorn did strike out a lot, and didn't have any kind of blazing career. I will say he was a very effective player in 2004 - walked a ton, so the OBP was good, and hit some dingers. He was a good player, and made some key contributions.
His .817 OPS would have been 4th best on the 2024 Red Sox.
His .373 OBP would have been BEST on the 2024 Red Sox. Just think about that!
 

SuperDieHard

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Jun 13, 2015
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I was definitely surprised they didn’t re-up Todd Walker after a solid 2003….but as fate had it…happily ever after with some clutch Bellhorn contributions.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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At first I thought 'OMG wtf' when seeing the question that Bellhorn may be considered a zero(?!) on this board. Then I laughed as I remembered us in our bleacher seats in 2004 looking forward to the PA pronunciation of Mark "Bellhern" for some reason. We thought it odd that a person in charge of announcing would butcher the "horn" for "hern".
 

Tim Salmon

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Oct 24, 2005
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His .817 OPS would have been 4th best on the 2024 Red Sox.
His .373 OBP would have been BEST on the 2024 Red Sox. Just think about that!
Counterpoint: 2004 was a different hitting environment across the league.

In 2004, Bellhorn's .373 OBP was good for 40th in MLB and 6th on the Red Sox. In 2024, it would have tied him with for 10th in MLB with Bryce Harper.

In 2004, Bellhorn's OPS of .817 ranked 74th and was eclipsed by the likes of Lew Ford, Johnny Estrada, and David Bell. It was actually three points lower than Todd Walker's OPS that year. In 2024, an .817 OPS would have ranked 26th in MLB (and fourth on the Red Sox, if you count Refsnyder's 93 games).

EDIT:
Fun factoid - Bellhorn's 107 OPS+ in 2004 was the same as Bobby Dalbec OPS+ in 2021, when he went .240/.298/.494. I love me some Bobby D. (.792 OPS, 5th on the Sox) and remember him as a vital cog in the team's ALCS run. So I'm starting to see Bellhorn through the same rose-colored glasses.
 
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brs3

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May 20, 2008
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Honestly, I think Tim Salmon should go to bed without dessert, say 3 hail mary's, and pledge allegiance to our lord savior, Mark Bellhorn as a consequence.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Mar 11, 2007
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Bobby Dalbec OPS+ in 2021, when he went .240/.298/.494. I love me some Bobby D. (.792 OPS, 5th on the Sox) and remember him as a vital cog in the team's ALCS run.
Man...... I remember thinking how he looked like he could've been a good regular backup 1B/DH/3B right handed hitter for the Sox.... just cut down on the K's and get that OBP up to a respectable .325 and watch 30HR's and a consistent .820OPS for 5+ more seasons.
flop.
 

richgedman'sghost

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One shortcoming of the 2004 Sox Netflix doc is that it didn't show Bellhorn's Game 6 dinger. Nor did it mention that a Sosher got head from his wife anytime Bellhorn went deep.
Congratulations You must have a great wife...Does she have any sisters?
 

BoSox Rule

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Jul 15, 2005
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Do I like the real MVP of the 2004 World Series?

I think if you don’t like Mark Bellhorn or don’t think he is a good player you should definitely be allowed to watch baseball, you just shouldn’t be allowed to talk about it.
 

OCab44

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Nov 30, 2024
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3-Run Home Run to blow open Game 6. Huge walk in Game 7 to set up Damon Slam. Put away Homer in Game 7, and the biggest of all, game-winning, ass-saving Homer in Game 1 that if we lost that game after having huge lead might have completely changed the Series.

All due respect from a board "newbie" here, Zero is the (very) wrong answer.