Massive AHL realignment towards the West Coast?

[Lose Remerswaal]

Been reading a bit about this lately, looks like they might be moving a bunch of teams from East to West.
 
Here's an article from yesterday about the new "California Division"
 

 
 
Yeah, it’s obviously about the AHL’s new western division, which is expected to feature NHL affiliates in the California cities of San Jose (Sharks), San Diego (Ducks), Ontario (Kings), Stockton (Flames), and Bakersfield (Oilers).

 
More information here, including news that Manchester will be losing it's AHL team (but gaining an ECHL team)
 
Worcester Sharks moving to San Jose reported here
 
and there's more out there about other teams

 

[TSC]

Makes sense. Teams want their AHL affiliates near-by for developmental and logistical purposes.
 
It sucks for the cities currently hosting the teams, but it's the right thing for the parent club to do.

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

I wish the minor league team here (less than 2 miles from my house) would upgrade to the AHL from ECHL.
 
But apparently it's a lot tougher for an AHL team to make a profit. 

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

Makes sense. Teams want their AHL affiliates near-by for developmental and logistical purposes.
 
It sucks for the cities currently hosting the teams, but it's the right thing for the parent club to do.

 
I can only speak for Manchester, but this has been a while in coming. Attendance has been brutal the last few years, and to be dead honest, the market here is ridiculously saturated, with the Bruins, 6 AHL teams in decent driving distance, plus almost all of Hockey East. The worst part of this is that the city built a 10,000 seat arena for an AHL team and concerts. 15 years later, it'll be reduced to an ECHL team and 3rd tier acts, since its acoustics are a horror show.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

And AHL CEO Dave Andrews makes it official today.
 
Like I said yesterday, speaking only for the Manchester franchise, this has been coming. Having to send people 6,000 miles round-trip to check on the franchise is ludicrous, and if Worcester, Glens Falls, OKC, and Norfolk are anything like Manchester, the drawing power simply isn't there to maintain that distance.
 
I do think that some of this is part of the emergence of California as a pretty strong NHL market, and the belief that adding 5 AHL affiliates, upgrading them from the ECHL, will foster that area's growth. As for the five cities losing teams, the ECHL is losing three in this, with only expansion to Reno planned, so they'd be at 26 before the old AHL cities and Las Vegas (team suspended operations for this season since they're homeless) get involved. Of course, those cities may not want to get comfortable, as 8 of the 28 teams in operation in the ECHL started business this year.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

I am very surprised Utah wasn't part of this, with the biggest and nicest arena in the ECHL.

I don't think we're going to see the Las Vegas team come back, at least not in Las Vegas, given the too-strong NHL rumors there now.

 

[mabrowndog]

I'm amazed that an AHL affiliate can remain financially solvent while operating in St. John's, Newfoundland. It's already a logistical outlier both for its NHL parent (Winnipeg) and other AHL teams in terms of travel and scheduling.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

What else do the Newfies have to do during the cold winter?

 

[charlieoscar]

There is a move among some of the city's politicians to include a clause in the contract of the ECHL team moving to Manchester that will allow the contract to be terminated if a new AHL team can be induced to move here (and they think that an effort should be made to find such a team). The other side thinks the Kings have treated the city so well that it would be a slap in their face to do so.
 
Since some of the potholes in the streets here could be mistaken for sinkholes, I think the politicians have other things they could be thinking about.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

I am very surprised Utah wasn't part of this, with the biggest and nicest arena in the ECHL.

I don't think we're going to see the Las Vegas team come back, at least not in Las Vegas, given the too-strong NHL rumors there now.

 
If the AHL goes the way of the NHL and use a four-division alignment, don't bet against it finally happening once the California teams show some success. Vancouver, for instance, has their AHL team in Utica, NY, after a couple of years in Chicago. 

I'm amazed that an AHL affiliate can remain financially solvent while operating in St. John's, Newfoundland. It's already a logistical outlier both for its NHL parent (Winnipeg) and other AHL teams in terms of travel and scheduling.

 
It really can't. True North owns both the NHL Jets and the AHL IceCaps, and they've been waiting on Thunder Bay to get their act together for a while. The article mentions other possibilities including Kansas City, Fargo, and...Winnipeg. So yeah, they're desperate to get out of Newfoundland.
 

There is a move among some of the city's politicians to include a clause in the contract of the ECHL team moving to Manchester that will allow the contract to be terminated if a new AHL team can be induced to move here (and they think that an effort should be made to find such a team). The other side thinks the Kings have treated the city so well that it would be a slap in their face to do so.
 
Since some of the potholes in the streets here could be mistaken for sinkholes, I think the politicians have other things they could be thinking about.

 
Manchester in a paragraph, folks. Several major surface roads have potholes to swallow a city bus but they're having a debate to lure Albany's AHL team in.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

 
If the AHL goes the way of the NHL and use a four-division alignment, don't bet against it finally happening once the California teams show some success. Vancouver, for instance, has their AHL team in Utica, NY, after a couple of years in Chicago. 

Don't bet against which? Utah to the AHL? I was kind of shocked they weren't in this migration. Maybe next round.

I would bet against Las Vegas to the AHL, because no AHL owner wants to be a place-holder to be bumped when the NHL expands there.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

That's my fault for a lack of specificity. If the California teams do well over the next couple of seasons, I can see either Vancouver (the aforementioned Utica) or Arizona (Portland, ME) going to Utah for an AHL affiliate, while pulling a Kings and turning the old AHL team into the ECHL team.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

The thing in Utah is that they're not going to sell a whole lot more tickets by being AHL over ECHL, but the costs are higher...so maybe it's them resisting the idea.

You would think that Salt Lake City would be a decent hockey town, what with the Olympics and all, but it's not at all like that.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

That sounds like St. John's, to be honest. It's a good hockey market, but its isolation is killing the franchise. What could help Utah is a strong West Coast presence for the AHL, while Newfoundland will always be Newfoundland.

I should point out that my thinking of Utah as an AHL city is just my opinion. There's nothing out there suggesting Andrews is looking that way.

 

[charlieoscar]

....
 
Manchester in a paragraph, folks. Several major surface roads have potholes to swallow a city bus but they're having a debate to lure Albany's AHL team in.

 
According to today's paper they signed an extension through the 2020-21 season with the Kings. That apparently had already been finalized in late December.

 

[Monbo Jumbo]

The thing in Utah is that they're not going to sell a whole lot more tickets by being AHL over ECHL, but the costs are higher...so maybe it's them resisting the idea.

...

 
 
That's my understanding - it's not that hard for an ECHL franchise to turn a profit - the AHL is a more difficult business. 

 

[DJnVa]

Norfolk losing their AHL team as well, as the Ducks bought it. An ECHL team from out west is being brought back to replace them.

 

[Fred not Lynn]

I think the next hockey shoe to drop in Salt Lake City is U of Utah following Arizona State's lead and moving from club to NCAA hockey.

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

So, a funny little postscript on all the relocation west: The Jets' AHL affiliate is coming home to Winnipeg, but the Hamilton Bulldogs end up the victim, with the Canadiens moving to The Rock. St. John's will remain the IceCaps, while the Jets' new AHL team will be rebranded soon (early bets on a return of the Manitoba Moose).
 
And yes, I find it strange that the AHL would both preserve the easternmost pro team in North America while abandoning Hamilton, a decent-sized market, all while pushing a whole wad of teams to California.

 

[timlinin8th]

So, a funny little postscript on all the relocation west: The Jets' AHL affiliate is coming home to Winnipeg, but the Hamilton Bulldogs end up the victim, with the Canadiens moving to The Rock. St. John's will remain the IceCaps, while the Jets' new AHL team will be rebranded soon (early bets on a return of the Manitoba Moose).
 
And yes, I find it strange that the AHL would both preserve the easternmost pro team in North America while abandoning Hamilton, a decent-sized market, all while pushing a whole wad of teams to California.

There's a line in this article -
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/hamilton-bulldogs-sell-ahl-franchise-buy-the-ohl-belleville-bulls-1.2992840
- that makes it sound like the owners of the Hamilton club made the first move:

Eventually the Canadiens could have exercised a right to buy the AHL franchise, and Andlauer wanted to move when the timing worked for him.

Sounds like in seeing the landscape of the AHL shifting, the decided to make a move buying an OHL team before their hand got forced. Precursors to eventually bringing in an NHL team as well?

 

[MiracleOfO2704]

With the indemnity issues Toronto and Buffalo would bring to any team in Hamilton, plus the fact that I think Quebec, Las Vegas, Seattle, and even Toronto part deux are ahead of Hamilton on the relocation/expansion radar, the only way Copps sees NHL action is in the preseason.

 

[SumnerH]

What else do the Newfies have to do during the cold winter?

Don't most of them prefer the QMJHL team over the AHL team? That's my impression based on very small sample size.

 

[kenneycb]

Even if they don't, from a purely economic stance, who cares?

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Good New York Times article on this move and how it affects the fans

 

[Investor 11]

@lakingsinsider: California AHL teams will play 68-game schedules next season. More in a one-on-one with President, CEO David Andrews: http://t.co/9KUZcE2KzT


I'm curious to see what they figure out regarding playoff seeding

 

[Red Right Ankle]

Do it by points percentage?