Maye-day Every Day

[Deathofthebambino]

For purposes of discussion (because I largely agree with you re: WRs), what positions are teams sacrificing in order to heavy up on WR picks? Have teams deemphasized Guards and Centers? Safeties? Since picks are a finite resource, particularly day 1 and day 2 picks, I'm wondering what's being neglected.

Depends on the team. I think one could certainly argue that Cincy didn't focus as much on offensive line early in Burrow's career, and instead went laser focused on receiving help for him. The flipside you have Philly which seems to have managed to have great line play (until maybe this year) while still getting receivers at the top of the draft and through trades.

But for me, the NFL has had a clear shift to the point where a great wide receiver room is the most important room in the building when it comes to winning outside of QB (unless you have a unicorn like Mahomes, but even Andy Reid has used a 1st or 2nd on a WR in each of the last 3 years now that Kelce is getting older and Hill left).

 

[rodderick]

Man can't believe the Patriots didnt take a WR in the top 10 with all the picks they had in that range over those years!

But beyond that.... the Patriots are far far more successful than the teams you mentioned. Only 1 of those teams has won a championship.

So maybe..... you can in fact win without spending high on WRs, in fact...
2024- #1 WR was a 2nd round rookie
2023- #1 WR was scrap heap Juju Smith Schuster
2022- #1 WR was a 3rd rounder
2021- #1 WR was a top 10 pick
2020- #1 WR was a 2nd rounder (picked shortly after Harry)
2019- #1 WR was a 7th rounder

If anything recent history says you DON"T need a top half of the 1st WR to win... what's most important is a QB, OL and that you get some kind of production out of your pass-catchers as a whole.

Recent history tells you that the three best QBs of all time (Brady, Manning, Mahomes) have participated in 18 of 23 Super Bowls since 2001. It'd be more useful to try to ascertain a formula that doesn't include Mahomes or Brady, because yeah, if you have one of those guys, pretty much nothing else matters.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Man can't believe the Patriots didnt take a WR in the top 10 with all the picks they had in that range over those years!

But beyond that.... the Patriots are far far more successful than the teams you mentioned. Only 1 of those teams has won a championship.

So maybe..... you can in fact win without spending high on WRs, in fact...
2024- #1 WR was a 2nd round rookie
2023- #1 WR was scrap heap Juju Smith Schuster
2022- #1 WR was a 3rd rounder
2021- #1 WR was a top 10 pick
2020- #1 WR was a 2nd rounder (picked shortly after Harry)
2019- #1 WR was a 7th rounder

If anything recent history says you DON"T need a top half of the 1st WR to win... what's most important is a QB, OL and that you get some kind of production out of your pass-catchers as a whole.

You're exactly right.


The Pats just need to find the next Tom Brady, or Patrick Mahomes and that strategy should work out just fine.

The rest of us live in a Tom Brady less world, the one where the Pats are 30-44 since he left, and have lost 19 of their last 24 games.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Recent history tells you that the three best QBs of all time (Brady, Manning, Mahomes) have participated in 18 of 23 Super Bowls since 2001. It'd be more useful to try to ascertain a formula that doesn't include Mahomes or Brady, because yeah, if you have one of those guys, pretty much nothing else matters.

That's kind of the point though, you need great QB play, but not high investment in WR. Arguably the best way to get really good QB play is really good O-line play. We watched Brady for many years... when did we have down years... when our WRs were bad... nope, when the line couldn't protect him.

Yeah it sucks but the NFL is a QB league, and a protection league. You can't consistently win without a good QB, and you usually don't get consistent QB play without good O-line play. If anything the aforementioned Dolphins are great examples... they have a ton of picks invested in WR... hey have zero playoff wins in that period, in part because they can't protect their QB. The 49ers have only moderate WR investment, they have won the NFC multiple times in part because on top O-line, the Ravens have moderate investment, top QB, top line, Lions with Goff rode their O-line to success.... there are lots of ways to build a team, and WR is one of the most volitile and not at all proven to be a particularly good one. ONE really good WR is nice, and teams should obviously look to get that, but history would argue that outside QB the trenches are how teams win SBs.

You're exactly right.


The Pats just need to find the next Tom Brady, or Patrick Mahomes and that strategy should work out just fine.

The rest of us live in a Tom Brady less world, the one where the Pats are 30-44 since he left, and have lost 19 of their last 24 games.

Okay... and what makes you think the reason for that is the WRs and not the QB/O-line? If anything the Mac experience would argue that WRs are far less important to QB performance than O-line. They slapped him into the lineup in 2021 with mediocre skill players and a good line... they made the playoffs, had the same record as the Bengals.
2022 the line was a lot worse, the skill players were basically the same... he got worse. 2023 the line was even worse... he imploded.

 

[rodderick]

That's kind of the point though, you need great QB play, but not high investment in WR. Arguably the best way to get really good QB play is really good O-line play. We watched Brady for many years... when did we have down years... when our WRs were bad... nope, when the line couldn't protect him.

Yeah it sucks but the NFL is a QB league, and a protection league. You can't consistently win without a good QB, and you usually don't get consistent QB play without good O-line play. If anything the aforementioned Dolphins are great examples... they have a ton of picks invested in WR... hey have zero playoff wins in that period, in part because they can't protect their QB. The 49ers have only moderate WR investment, they have won the NFC multiple times in part because on top O-line, the Ravens have moderate investment, top QB, top line, Lions with Goff rode their O-line to success.... there are lots of ways to build a team, and WR is one of the most volitile and not at all proven to be a particularly good one. ONE really good WR is nice, and teams should obviously look to get that, but history would argue that outside QB the trenches are how teams win SBs.


Okay... and what makes you think the reason for that is the WRs and not the QB/O-line? If anything the Mac experience would argue that WRs are far less important to QB performance than O-line. They slapped him into the lineup in 2021 with mediocre skill players and a good line... they made the playoffs, had the same record as the Bengals.
2022 the line was a lot worse, the skill players were basically the same... he got worse. 2023 the line was even worse... he imploded.

I would argue you don't need high investment in WR if you have one of the very few transcendental, generational level QBs. Even the Burrows of the world won't win a title without some dudes on the outside.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I would argue you don't need high investment in WR if you have one of the very few transcendental, generational level QBs. Even the Burrows of the world won't win a title without some dudes on the outside.

Maybe, but I think generally recent also rans had more good OL than highly picked WRs. Of course you need good players to win, whether that is WR, TE, something, true title contenders are good almost everywhere, and in order to get good almost everywhere you need production from high picks and low picks, and FA and trades.

Could a team win by investing heavily in WR... sure, it's possible. Is there any indication it's the BEST way to win... no, not even a little, and that's been true forever, I mean if it were Matt Millen would have like 8 rings.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Okay... and what makes you think the reason for that is the WRs and not the QB/O-line? If anything the Mac experience would argue that WRs are far less important to QB performance than O-line. They slapped him into the lineup in 2021 with mediocre skill players and a good line... they made the playoffs, had the same record as the Bengals.
2022 the line was a lot worse, the skill players were basically the same... he got worse. 2023 the line was even worse... he imploded.

I think you mean they slapped him onto the team with the 2nd best defense in the NFL (granted, a lot of that probably had to do with schedule luck).

You've spent all of this time arguing the Pats spent all this capital on receivers, but I'm glad you're acknowledging they were mediocre. It's a step in the right direction.

As for the line, they had Mason and Andrews healthy (Andrews played every game, and Mason played 15) and Ted Karras played 13 games, but aside from that, I would call that line mediocre too:

Cajuste started 2 games
Trent Brown only played 9 games
Yasir Durant started a game
Ferentz started 2 games
Justin Herron started 4 games
Onwenu started 8 games


So they were constantly mixing and matching to make something work due to injuries that year too. A great defense (or great results from the defense) and a mediocre offense playing an easy schedule, 10-7 sounds about right.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I think you mean they slapped him onto the team with the 2nd best defense in the NFL (granted, a lot of that probably had to do with schedule luck).

You've spent all of this time arguing the Pats spent all this capital on receivers, but I'm glad you're acknowledging they were mediocre. It's a step in the right direction.

As for the line, they had Mason and Andrews healthy (Andrews played every game, and Mason played 15) and Ted Karras played 13 games, but aside from that, I would call that line mediocre too:

Cajuste started 2 games
Trent Brown only played 9 games
Yasir Durant started a game
Ferentz started 2 games
Justin Herron started 4 games
Onwenu started 8 games


So they were constantly mixing and matching to make something work due to injuries that year too. A great defense (or great results from the defense) and a mediocre offense playing an easy schedule, 10-7 sounds about right.

They graded out as one of the better lines.

Sperately I think they spent plenty on WR, they spent a 1st and a 2nd within a few years.... they just sucked. If they had AJ Brown and George Pickens... sick, we'd be talking about how great the WR corps was.

There are two different but related things being discussed:
1. Is drafting WR high necessary to succeed (evidence says no)
and
2. Have the Patriots invested in WR over recent drafts (yes, they just sucked at it).

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Maybe, but I think generally recent also rans had more good OL than highly picked WRs. Of course you need good players to win, whether that is WR, TE, something, true title contenders are good almost everywhere, and in order to get good almost everywhere you need production from high picks and low picks, and FA and trades.

Could a team win by investing heavily in WR... sure, it's possible. Is there any indication it's the BEST way to win... no, not even a little, and that's been true forever, I mean if it were Matt Millen would have like 8 rings.

I mean, if the argument is super bowl or failed season, sure, the best QB on Earth is definitely the variable to bet on. But I don't buy that the San Fran's and Buffalo's and Baltimores and Cincy's and Philly's are "also rans." I'd be happy to be any of those teams right now.

We'll see, but my feeling is NFL GM's are realizing young QB's need weapons and have for years (except in New England and other places like Carolina, pretty good company we're keeping). The Houston Texans have used high draft picks on Metchie, Nico Collins and Tank Dell, and they still went and got Joe Mixon and Stefon Diggs this season. Chicago already had DJ Moore, Cole Kmet, and they went and got Keenan Allen and used a 1st rounder on Rome Odunze, while also bringing in D'Andre Swift. That's the model that seems to be working.

Brock Purdy is the flipside of your argument. Dude looks like a world beater out there with CMC, Deebo, Kittle, Aiyuk and that offensive line. Take out CMC and Deebo and now Aiyuk is hurt, and he looks like Mr. Irrelevant. Is Sam Darnold succeeding in Minnesota because of the offensive line, or is it because he's got Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson, Aaron Jones around him? Tougher call maybe. How about Geno leaving New York to play with Lockett and Metcalf? The Lions were 3-13-1 in 2021 with Jared Goff's 1st year, and they've added St. Brown, Gibbs, Laporta, Jameson Williams is healthy...

But yes, if Mahomes wins again this year, we'll just use the Chiefs model, I guess.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean, if the argument is super bowl or failed season, sure, the best QB on Earth is definitely the variable to bet on. But I don't buy that the San Fran's and Buffalo's and Baltimores and Cincy's and Philly's are "also rans." I'd be happy to be any of those teams right now.

We'll see, but my feeling is NFL GM's are realizing young QB's need weapons and have for years (except in New England and other places like Carolina, pretty good company we're keeping). The Houston Texans have used high draft picks on Metchie, Nico Collins and Tank Dell, and they still went and got Joe Mixon and Stefon Diggs this season. Chicago already had DJ Moore, Cole Kmet, and they went and got Keenan Allen and used a 1st rounder on Rome Odunze, while also bringing in D'Andre Swift. That's the model that seems to be working.

Brock Purdy is the flipside of your argument. Dude looks like a world beater out there with CMC, Deebo, Kittle, Aiyuk and that offensive line. Take out CMC and Deebo and now Aiyuk is hurt, and he looks like Mr. Irrelevant. Is Sam Darnold succeeding in Minnesota because of the offensive line, or is it because he's got Jefferson, Addison, Hockenson, Aaron Jones around him? Tougher call maybe. How about Geno leaving New York to play with Lockett and Metcalf? The Lions were 3-13-1 in 2021 with Jared Goff's 1st year, and they've added St. Brown, Gibbs, Laporta, Jameson Williams is healthy...

But yes, if Mahomes wins again this year, we'll just use the Chiefs model, I guess.

HOU spent a lot more high picks on O-line than WR. They traded 1sts for Tunsil the year they drafted Collins in the 3rd, the year they drafted Metchie in the 2nd they used their 1st on Green, they took Dell in the 3rd.... after Scruggs in the 2nd. They traded for Diggs this year... are they better than last year? Doesn't look like it, but maybe, generally one problem has been the O-line is banged up and not playing well. But HOU's strategy seems very designed around the trenches.

Chicago... they drafted Odunze this year, first time they've drafted a WR in the 1st two rounds since 2015. Also... they've played 6 games, not sure why we're holding them out as an example. But if we are, they acquired most of their WRs via trade not the draft. They spent more 1st and 2nds on OL than WR.

The Lions.... are built around mulitple 1st round OL, St. Brown was a 4th rounder.

The 49ers... this could be the team, Kittle was a 4th, but they did take a ton of shots in the 2nd on guys, 3 or 4 of them busted, but they got Deebo and then Aiyuk in the 1st. But also a key was Trent Williams.

None of these teams (except SF) have spent much more early round capital on WR than the Patriots in the last 5-6 years... they've just done a better job. If your argument is you should get good players.... yeah I agree, but even the teams you picked are not doing it by spending tons of high picks on WRs, they're doing it by getting good players through a variety of avenues... and arguably by investing in OL so the QB has time to throw, which makes everyone look better.

The Patriots are spent a 2nd this year on WR, we know they aggresively pursued both FA and trade options.... they are clearly trying to get better at WR, hopefully they do, but I don't look at this team and say "man if they had Aiyuk they'd be good", I see a team that desperately need OL, particularly OT help.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

HOU spent a lot more high picks on O-line than WR. They traded 1sts for Tunsil the year they drafted Collins in the 3rd, the year they drafted Metchie in the 2nd they used their 1st on Green, they took Dell in the 3rd.... after Scruggs in the 2nd. They traded for Diggs this year... are they better than last year? Doesn't look like it, but maybe, generally one problem has been the O-line is banged up and not playing well. But HOU's strategy seems very designed around the trenches.

Chicago... they drafted Odunze this year, first time they've drafted a WR in the 1st two rounds since 2015. Also... they've played 6 games, not sure why we're holding them out as an example. But if we are, they acquired most of their WRs via trade not the draft. They spent more 1st and 2nds on OL than WR.

The Lions.... are built around mulitple 1st round OL, St. Brown was a 4th rounder.

The 49ers... this could be the team, Kittle was a 4th, but they did take a ton of shots in the 2nd on guys, 3 or 4 of them busted, but they got Deebo and then Aiyuk in the 1st. But also a key was Trent Williams.

None of these teams (except SF) have spent much more early round capital on WR than the Patriots in the last 5-6 years... they've just done a better job. If your argument is you should get good players.... yeah I agree, but even the teams you picked are not doing it by spending tons of high picks on WRs, they're doing it by getting good players through a variety of avenues... and arguably by investing in OL so the QB has time to throw, which makes everyone look better.

The Patriots are spent a 2nd this year on WR, we know they aggresively pursued both FA and trade options.... they are clearly trying to get better at WR, hopefully they do, but I don't look at this team and say "man if they had Aiyuk they'd be good", I see a team that desperately need OL, particularly OT help.

If you're not going to read the post you're responding to, but instead want to debate whatever you think I'm saying, feel free. For example, nobody is arguing Chicago is anything other than they are following the model of putting weapons around their young quarterback, hence you ignoring Keenan Allen and Swift (and DJ Moore and Kmet) and focusing on Odunze. Trent Williams is still healthy in SF, it doesn't matter because Purdy lost his weapons.

I am sure Geno, Darnold would look awesome with a good offensive line and the Patriots receivers and backs. And I'm sure Baker Mayfield is going to continue to light up the NFL with his offensive line and no Evans or Godwin.

Nobody is arguing the Pats have a good offensive line, but I disagree that the next world champs will be led by that group and not the guys scoring touchdowns and turning 5 yard holes into house calls. But im sure if the Pats get their offensive line worked out, Rhamondre can break a 15 yarder, assuming he doesnt drop it on the ground along the way, Polk will have time to get three inches of separation and then drop it, and we can count on Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper to get us 8 on 3rd and ten. Fannnnnnnntastic.

Unless a team has Mahomes, of course.

 

[BaseballJones]

And that's not enough when you're cupboard is bare, and you have young QB's in today's NFL. If that is prioritizing the position after years of ignoring it, this rebuild will never, ever end.

But hey, we did go out and get playmakers like Hunter Henry and Austin Hooper and KJ Osborn and Jalen Reagor and Kendrick Bourne and JuJu, so I guess it's all good.

I mean, absolutely nobody is saying “it’s all good”.

 

[TSC]

Hey so what does all this have to do with Maye?

 

[j-man]

after watching your qb and now knowing how good denver d is

would had NE took this package for maye
24 25 26 1ST
25 26 2ND
24 25 26 3RD
LT G Bollies WR C Suttion WR T Patrick RB J Williams
would had sped up your rebuild a year

 

[lexrageorge]

I do recall in the past people wondering why Belichick didn't use more high picks on edge rushers, tackles, LB's or DB's. There are only so many high picks to use, and there's always going to be multiple positions that are not prioritized. Patriots have a lot of holes on both sides of the ball right now. By definition, several of those holes will not be addressed by the draft.

The recent receivers the Pats drafted: Douglas looks like a #3/#4 receiver; Polk cannot catch the fucking ball; Boutte gets some snaps and a couple of targets; and Thornton and Baker watch the game from the sidelines or from the line of scrimmage.

 

[DJnVa]

The recent receivers the Pats drafted: Douglas looks like a #3/#4 receiver; Polk cannot catch the fucking ball; Boutte gets some snaps and a couple of targets; and Thornton and Baker watch the game from the sidelines or from the line of scrimmage.

Douglas in the slot if the Patriots go out and address the position with a #1 in the offseason would be pretty fucking good. And he's a 6th rounder. Him becoming a solid #3 or even #4 is a good hit based on his draft position.

 

[DJnVa]

Moving this back to the thread topic, here's Chase Daniel on Maye (the video has a stupid title but is a nice breakdown).

 

[tims4wins]

Douglas in the slot if the Patriots go out and address the position with a #1 in the offseason would be pretty fucking good. And he's a 6th rounder. Him becoming a solid #3 or even #4 is a good hit based on his draft position.

I also remain encouraged by the fact that Polk can seemingly find openings. Obviously he needs to start catching the ball.

What they lack, and as @Deathofthebambino has discussed forever, is a gravity-pulling #1. A group of Chase, Polk, and Douglas could be a pretty solid group.

Now the issue is - they need to find that #1!

 

[Rudy's Curve]

I also remain encouraged by the fact that Polk can seemingly find openings. Obviously he needs to start catching the ball.

What they lack, and as @Deathofthebambino has discussed forever, is a gravity-pulling #1. A group of Chase, Polk, and Douglas could be a pretty solid group.

Now the issue is - they need to find that #1!

I assume you mean Higgins (although if the Bengals are smart which they aren't really, they'll tag-and-trade), because there is a negative eight billion percent chance they're trading Chase next year.

 

[tims4wins]

I assume you mean Higgins (although if the Bengals are smart which they aren't really, they'll tag-and-trade), because there is a negative eight billion percent chance they're trading Chase next year.

Sorry, I meant a theoretical #1 like Chase, Jefferson, etc. Not a real life example. The point was the complementary parts could potentially be good with a true #1.

 

[DJnVa]

So, is Travis Hunter that kind of #1? Or is he a really good WR that gets additional plaudits because he's also a really good CB? If he did not play CB, is he a worthy #1 pick?

 

[Rudy's Curve]

Sorry, I meant a theoretical #1 like Chase, Jefferson, etc. Not a real life example. The point was the complementary parts could potentially be good with a true #1.

Ah, I thought you were insinuating he might be available due to not reaching a deal this year. Carry on.

 

[cshea]

So, is Travis Hunter that kind of #1? Or is he a really good WR that gets additional plaudits because he's also a really good CB? If he did not play CB, is he a worthy #1 pick?

So, from what I've read, it sounds like Hunter is probably a CB nire than a WR. The draft guys probably know better. I'd like to know where WR Hunter would get ranked and where CB Hunter would be ranked. I'd imagine if he played just one position, he wouldn't be as highly ranked and a lot of his value is in the two-way?

FWIW, on BB's podcast they did a breakdown of Hunter. Lombardi asked BB and Patricia where they would play Hunter and both immediately answered "CB" and Bill went on to say you could use him on offense like how he was using Marcus Jones on offense.

 

[Cellar-Door]

So, is Travis Hunter that kind of #1? Or is he a really good WR that gets additional plaudits because he's also a really good CB? If he did not play CB, is he a worthy #1 pick?

He's a very good WR, I think most think he's an elite corner a few people think he's WR #1, but most have McMillan as the #1, Burden is usually the other guy in the top tier.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

He's a very good WR, I think most think he's an elite corner a few people think he's WR #1, but most have McMillan as the #1, Burden is usually the other guy in the top tier.

Yeah, I don't think you use a #1 overall on Hunter, at least not now. If they're going WR, or even tackle there, they should have plenty of opportunities to trade down somewhere in the top 10 to a team looking for a QB and stack up a shit ton of picks. There's a lot that will happen to change draft boards between now and June.

 

[DJnVa]

Yeah, I don't think you use a #1 overall on Hunter, at least not now. If they're going WR, or even tackle there, they should have plenty of opportunities to trade down somewhere in the top 10 to a team looking for a QB and stack up a shit ton of picks. There's a lot that will happen to change draft boards between now and June.

Yeah, the PFN draft sim is pretty interesting this early. Since Pats are #1 it throws out a whole bunch of offers.

 

[DJnVa]

The Athletic thinks the Pats should go get Diontae Johnson:

Patriots acquire Diontae Johnson, sending the Panthers a 2025 third round pick. The Panthers have zero reason to accept anything less, as they'll receive a third-round compensatory pick if Johnson signs a decent contract elsewhere in 2025. The Patriots have an extra third and $35 million in cap space this year and $137 million next season (tops in the league), so they may be willing to extend Johnson immediately. Drake Maye deserves at least one WR who can separate

 

[Jungleland]

The Athletic thinks the Pats should go get Diontae Johnson:

I really wanted this to happen in the offseason when the Steelers were the ones shopping him, but I'm not sure it makes sense mid lost season. His track record for being a good soldier is spotty and he's a free agent in half a season where you could get him for free. Also feels like it would mean less targets for Pop, who still feels worth trying to develop as far as possible to me as a guy who might still be here and relevant the next time we're good. Diontae is a great and underrated player, though.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Moving this back to the thread topic, here's Chase Daniel on Maye (the video has a stupid title but is a nice breakdown).

From this, I learned that Maye is really tall.*






* Actually, it was a great breakdown, but he must have referred to Maye's height 5 or 6 different times.

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiWXp0G87Jk


Haven't watched it yet but JT O'Sullivan has a Maye breakdown

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiWXp0G87Jk


Haven't watched it yet but JT O'Sullivan has a Maye breakdown

So takeaways...
Early:
he liked a lot of stuff (also that first Polk ball, spacing was weird as we noted live... it was because Polk had the wrong snap count) a little shaky on footwork but fine. (also he liked play designs and thought a lot of guys were getting very open)
TD was a really nice read throwing into the hot.
Really nice 3 step read.
middle... lot of sketchy footwork.
The Bourne ball just in front of him... drifted and opened his body, bad throw, funky release.
The one where Polk got concussed... took an extra hitch, late throw, took an open completion and made it incomplete by slowing his WR and letting the S come over.
An out that missed an open WR, threw too high because he opened wideopen bad footwork (also, noticed first quarter threw into the hot here he didn't probably should have)
2nd half...
same play as 1st half crosser, not open, Maye almost throws a pick (also two WRs trip on the same play, and Osborn runs a kind of crappy route)
Nice decision/footwork on ball to Henry attacking Jags S who turns his back.
Really nice go-ball to Boutte- gets out quick no extra steps, saw it pre-snap.
Miscommunication with Hooper, should be picked... terrible throw could be some miscommunication but still a bad throw
TD to Osborn, good anticipation (loves design) throws as soon as LB vacates with Henry
Nice timing on a shorter cover 2 hole shot (similar but shorter than throw to Polk , but this time he gets it out on time)


Overall takeaway.... lots to like... his footwork needs work.

 

[chilidawg]

FWIW, on BB's podcast they did a breakdown of Hunter. Lombardi asked BB and Patricia where they would play Hunter and both immediately answered "CB" and Bill went on to say you could use him on offense like how he was using Marcus Jones on offense.

Whatever happened to using Marcus Jones on offense? For a while there he was the best thing we had going.

 

[Garshaparra]

Whatever happened to using Marcus Jones on offense? For a while there he was the best thing we had going.

I think they're worried about keeping him in one piece this season. After getting 80% of the snaps the first two weeks, he's tailed off to less than half weeks 4-6, and didn't play at all last week. He's been nursing a groin injury for weeks, so can't be throwing him out on jet sweeps or to take advantage of his speed and elusiveness when he can't be all that speedy.

 

[cshea]

So takeaways...
Early:
he liked a lot of stuff (also that first Polk ball, spacing was weird as we noted live... it was because Polk had the wrong snap count) a little shaky on footwork but fine. (also he liked play designs and thought a lot of guys were getting very open)
TD was a really nice read throwing into the hot.
Really nice 3 step read.
middle... lot of sketchy footwork.
The Bourne ball just in front of him... drifted and opened his body, bad throw, funky release.
The one where Polk got concussed... took an extra hitch, late throw, took an open completion and made it incomplete by slowing his WR and letting the S come over.
An out that missed an open WR, threw too high because he opened wideopen bad footwork (also, noticed first quarter threw into the hot here he didn't probably should have)
2nd half...
same play as 1st half crosser, not open, Maye almost throws a pick (also two WRs trip on the same play, and Osborn runs a kind of crappy route)
Nice decision/footwork on ball to Henry attacking Jags S who turns his back.
Really nice go-ball to Boutte- gets out quick no extra steps, saw it pre-snap.
Miscommunication with Hooper, should be picked... terrible throw could be some miscommunication but still a bad throw
TD to Osborn, good anticipation (loves design) throws as soon as LB vacates with Henry
Nice timing on a shorter cover 2 hole shot (similar but shorter than throw to Polk , but this time he gets it out on time)


Overall takeaway.... lots to like... his footwork needs work.

Thought this was a good brea down. Can clearly see what he's talking about with the extra hitches and drifting. That feels correctible with time and practice. Lots to like with the processing and decision making. The plays where he gets the footwork right (and even some when he doesn't) are on the money.

Also thought it was very complementary to AVP. I know O'Sullivan is just pulling a few pass plays so the first down runs and things like that aren't covered but O'Sullivan seemed very complimentary of the play designs. They make sense and guys are getting open.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Yeah, the PFN draft sim is pretty interesting this early. Since Pats are #1 it throws out a whole bunch of offers.

Yep. I added:
2026 CAR 2nd
2026 CLE 2nd
2026 CIN 3rd
2026 LV 3rd
2026 CLE 4th
2026 CLE 5th

While still picking at 8, 35, 42, 60, 62, 66, 77, 84, 102, 104, 141, 216, 219, 230 and giving up no picks. Not working the system either.

Even if this is unrealistic, my takeaway is that "we could throw WR and OT spaghetti against the wall and still replenish other positions".

 

[DJnVa]

Yep. I added:
2026 CAR 2nd
2026 CLE 2nd
2026 CIN 3rd
2026 LV 3rd
2026 CLE 4th
2026 CLE 5th

While still picking at 8, 35, 42, 60, 62, 66, 77, 84, 102, 104, 141, 216, 219, 230 and giving up no picks. Not working the system either.

Even if this is unrealistic, my takeaway is that "we could throw WR and OT spaghetti against the wall and still replenish other positions".

Yeah, if this is anywhere close to reality, you could get the WR you like (Burden or Teta), and have 2 early second rounders to grab OTs. Lots of potential help.

It's why we want QBs to shoot up the board--this mock doesn't even have Cam Ward in it yet.

 

[luckiestman]

Thought this was a good brea down. Can clearly see what he's talking about with the extra hitches and drifting. That feels correctible with time and practice. Lots to like with the processing and decision making. The plays where he gets the footwork right (and even some when he doesn't) are on the money.

Also thought it was very complementary to AVP. I know O'Sullivan is just pulling a few pass plays so the first down runs and things like that aren't covered but O'Sullivan seemed very complimentary of the play designs. They make sense and guys are getting open.

JT does full games on Patreon not just select plays. Not sure if he did it for Maye.

 

[cshea]

JT does full games on Patreon not just select plays. Not sure if he did it for Maye.

He did a full game for Maye's first start but I don't subscribe.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Yeah, if this is anywhere close to reality, you could get the WR you like (Burden or Teta), and have 2 early second rounders to grab OTs. Lots of potential help.

It's why we want QBs to shoot up the board--this mock doesn't even have Cam Ward in it yet.

PFN has 5 guys projected in round 1, going by the simulator. Of course things will change between now and then, but that includes a bunch of bad NFL teams whose fans would trade a kidney for a QB. We might be able to move down 2 or 3 times in the first round.

 

[DJnVa]

That throw that Thornton dropped...

The TD run...

 

[Eddie Jurak]

He's faster than he seems, this didn't look at all to me like he had a chance to take it in.

DRAKE MAYE RUNS FOR THE 17-YARD TOUCHDOWN

View: https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1850589018326540654

 

[Gash Prex]

He's faster than he seems, this didn't look at all to me like he had a chance to take it in.

DRAKE MAYE RUNS FOR THE 17-YARD TOUCHDOWN

View: https://twitter.com/NFL_DovKleiman/status/1850589018326540654

drake hit 20mph on that run

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Before they let him play again they need to teach him how and when to slide.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Before they let him play again they need to teach him how and when to slide.

He was mid slide when the guy flew in helmet from from his 4/5 o’clock. You can always say a guy should slide earlier, but I don’t think this was a good example of a QB making a reckless play to expose himself.

Arguably the fact he slid is what exposed him to that particular head blow, actually.

He also stumbled before regaining his balance right before the slide. Shit happens.

 

[8slim]

Before they let him play again they need to teach him how and when to slide.

Eh, he got hit from behind. Not much a QB can do about that.

 

[Justthetippett]

Eh, he got hit from behind. Not much a QB can do about that.

Aside from not run quite so much. He's dynamic as a runner but every time he's out there trying to get yards with his feet, he's at risk. We've seen Allen evolve and pick his spots. Same with Mahomes. This team is bad, so it's tempting to make anything happen, but with some more reps I think he'll learn to use his legs more judiciously.

 

[8slim]

Aside from not run quite so much. He's dynamic as a runner but every time he's out there trying to get yards with his feet, he's at risk. We've seen Allen evolve and pick his spots. Same with Mahomes. This team is bad, so it's tempting to make anything happen, but with some more reps I think he'll learn to use his legs more judiciously.

Which of his three runs today was a bad decision? The TD or the 2 first downs?

It was a fluke play where he got hit from behind. So far he’s shown a surprising maturity in choosing when to run IMHO.

 

[Justthetippett]

Which of his three runs today was a bad decision? The TD or the 2 first downs?

It was a fluke play where he got hit from behind. So far he’s shown a surprising maturity in choosing when to run IMHO.

None were bad plays. He made something happen out of nothing on all three. It was awesome to watch. And he has not necessarily been wreckless. I agree. (Except for maybe that series in the first Jets game, but I put that on Mayo.) But he will get hurt if that's a major part of his game. One way or another. Even with the best awareness, timely slides, etc. Maybe less so if he adds 10-15 lbs, but there are just too many bodies flying around for that to be sustainable.

 

[Reverend]

It was a late slide, but it’s a function of him breaking a tackle right before. That is to say, he breaks a tackle, but that leaves him without proper footing to slide, which is why it’s not always a great idea for a QB to make a run or break a tackle just because he can.

View: https://twitter.com/PatsBuzz/status/1850599567282303147

Almost iconically classic rookie QB stuff here. Kid breaks pocket and out runs defender for an untouched score. Oh the glory! Gets another shot to break pocket, beats a guy this time! …and then because of that he can’t slide right and is concussed. Welcome to the pro game, kid.

 

[rodderick]

It was a late slide, but it’s a function of him breaking a tackle right before. That is to say, he breaks a tackle, but that leaves him without proper footing to slide, which is why it’s not always a great idea for a QB to make a run or break a tackle just because he can.

View: https://twitter.com/PatsBuzz/status/1850599567282303147

Almost iconically classic rookie QB stuff here. Kid breaks pocket and out runs defender for an untouched score. Oh the glory! Gets another shot to break pocket, beats a guy this time! …and then because of that he can’t slide right and is concussed. Welcome to the pro game, kid.

Yup, the slide actually wasn't late at all. He broke a tackle, lost his balance and then began the slide as soon as he got his legs under him again. I actually don't have any issue with what either player did on this play. Neither Drake nor the defender were reckless or negligent. Unfortunate outcome to be sure, but I don't want a mobile QB leaving yards with an open field due to fear either. Not like he ran into an incoming linebacker and slid late into a headshot.

I also don't think he'll necessarily get hurt if that's part of his game as pretty much none of the top mobile QBs get hurt on scrambles with any meaningful frequency. Mahomes doesn't, Allen doesn't, even Lamar's injuries came from the pocket. Drake's mobility is an incredibly valuable tool and a big mistake eraser and it's not like he's trying to run people over like prime Cam Newton. Shouldn't let a freak injury take away from what could help make him a special QB.