Maye-day Every Day

E5 Yaz

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On first-and-10, Maye attempted a deep ball over the middle to receiver Kayshon Boutte that hung up in the air and was intercepted by safety Amani Hooker.

"We were throwing into the wind and I have to put more on it. Just a dumb decision. Something you'd like to have back," he said. "Especially in that situation -- we could at least tie it up. Sometimes the best play is to throw it away."
 

Eddie Jurak

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I mostly liked Maye's running decisions in this game. He had 8 carries for 95 yards, he slid once (at what was a very good time for him to slide), but I think he avoided taking any bad hits. His only bad running decision was on the late TD drive, when, with no time outs he picked up a first and could have run out of bounds but turned it upfield for minimal gain instead. Despite last week, the willingness to run still there and he made good decisions.

What is the single game record for rushing by a Pats qb?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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On first-and-10, Maye attempted a deep ball over the middle to receiver Kayshon Boutte that hung up in the air and was intercepted by safety Amani Hooker.

"We were throwing into the wind and I have to put more on it. Just a dumb decision. Something you'd like to have back," he said. "Especially in that situation -- we could at least tie it up. Sometimes the best play is to throw it away."
At least he knows it was stupid. It was a really dumb rookie mistake. This will be a good learning opportunity for him.
 

chilidawg

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At least he knows it was stupid. It was a really dumb rookie mistake. This will be a good learning opportunity for him.
There's a video posted in the WR thread that shows Bourne running up the middle and the safety shading towards him, but then he trips and the safety recovers to Boutte. Maye also underthrows it a good bit. Good throw and Bourne not falling down and maybe it's not such a bad decision. Boutte had a couple steps on his guy.
 

Mr. Wednesday

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There's a video posted in the WR thread that shows Bourne running up the middle and the safety shading towards him, but then he trips and the safety recovers to Boutte. Maye also underthrows it a good bit. Good throw and Bourne not falling down and maybe it's not such a bad decision. Boutte had a couple steps on his guy.
The guy right on Bourne was behind him, but the guy who came across the field from the right looked to be deeper and may have been able to make a play on a ball thrown deep enough.
 

astrozombie

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I find that I can't get worked up about a rookie playing in his 5th game coming off a concussion, with this coaching staff and receiving corp, trying to make a play in a game in OT making a mistake on that throw. Mistakes happen and I would rather he try that play more than the 1 yard screen pass the 2024 Pats seem to love so much.
 

SMU_Sox

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We expected Maye to be a little turnover prone because when he faced better competition in college he had those issues. I am not saying anything is bad. However, he is putting the ball in harms way quite a bit early on. He also makes absolutely spectacular plays too that help mitigate the bad. But right now the bad is outweighing the good. A lot of that is because this supporting cast is garbage. But he's also making some stupid decisions. Hopefully he learns from them. Just remember though not everyone does. I feel like that part needs to be said.

Again, this is all normal rookie QB growing pains. Hopefully as he matures and gets more reps this stuff fixes itself.
 

DJnVa

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We expected Maye to be a little turnover prone because when he faced better competition in college he had those issues. I am not saying anything is bad. However, he is putting the ball in harms way quite a bit early on. He also makes absolutely spectacular plays too that help mitigate the bad. But right now the bad is outweighing the good. A lot of that is because this supporting cast is garbage. But he's also making some stupid decisions. Hopefully he learns from them. Just remember though not everyone does. I feel like that part needs to be said.

Again, this is all normal rookie QB growing pains. Hopefully as he matures and gets more reps this stuff fixes itself.
These are good points, but I definitely think the bad does NOT outweigh the good if you recognize him as someone who's made 4 NFL starts.
 

SMU_Sox

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These are good points, but I definitely think the bad does NOT outweigh the good if you recognize him as someone who's made 4 NFL starts.
Yeah I just meant like, if one potentially turned the ball over or put the ball in harms way 2-3 times a game consistently that would outweigh the good. It's ignoring the 4 NFL starts part. But I mean to ignore it. I am still super excited about Maye. I think he's going to be aces.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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If I recall, a lot of Maye's comps were to Josh Allen. And I can see similarities in their first year (not making any comparisons beyond that, don't jump on me). Someone who shows tantalizing potential, but can make awful decisions.
I do have to say it is enjoyable to have a QB make the sorts of plays that I would be throwing a shoe at my TV in response to a play like that happening against the Pats- screaming "SHOW YOUR HANDS, SLIDE YOUR FEET!"
 
I mostly liked Maye's running decisions in this game. He had 8 carries for 95 yards, he slid once (at what was a very good time for him to slide), but I think he avoided taking any bad hits. His only bad running decision was on the late TD drive, when, with no time outs he picked up a first and could have run out of bounds but turned it upfield for minimal gain instead. Despite last week, the willingness to run still there and he made good decisions.

What is the single game record for rushing by a Pats qb?
By contrast, our actual running backs can barely get back to the LoS. Over the past three games have

12 attempts for 20 yards v Jags
25 for 55 v Jets (with a fumble)
12 for 15 v Titans

For a total of 49 attempts for 90 yards. Ugh.

The team is really not giving Maye a lot of help here, so it's not surprising he's sometimes getting too aggressive in trying to force things.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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We expected Maye to be a little turnover prone because when he faced better competition in college he had those issues. I am not saying anything is bad. However, he is putting the ball in harms way quite a bit early on. He also makes absolutely spectacular plays too that help mitigate the bad. But right now the bad is outweighing the good. A lot of that is because this supporting cast is garbage. But he's also making some stupid decisions. Hopefully he learns from them. Just remember though not everyone does. I feel like that part needs to be said.

Again, this is all normal rookie QB growing pains. Hopefully as he matures and gets more reps this stuff fixes itself.
It's interesting because up until that point in the game, he was ultra conservative. At one point, he was like 27/30 for under 200 yards, so he was clearly trying to limit the mistakes and play the short game. That tells me he can play conservative when tasked with it.

I wanted them to go for two also, but the silver lining is that Maye got some experience playing in OT. All experience matters at this point.
 

Eddie Jurak

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This was interesting. The pressure on Maye on his last second TD pass was from a defender who had been covering Henry, until Henry stepped out of the back of the endzone making himself ineligible. At that point his defender joined the rush and nearly got there in time.

Amazing. Before throwing his game-tying TD at the end of regulation in Tennessee, Drake Maye lost a receiver. Watch Hunter Henry, top of the screen. Henry got knocked out of bounds and stayed there to avoid an illegal touching penalty. So his defender joined the rush and, after 11.82 seconds in the pocket, forced Maye to throw while playing 10-on-11. Maye scored anyway.

View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1853564852993966506
 

changer591

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That side step was the perfect moment for a "woop" sound effect.
And good on Hunter Henry to actually know the rules...if that had been the way the game ended with a TD called back due to illegal touching that would have been rough.
All in all, for me, the game was exactly how I wanted it. Maye worked through a ton of adversity against an excellent defense.and no run game, he didn't get injured, he was able to work on the hurry up offense, and they lost so they are in position to get a great draft pick.
Personally, I don't know why anyone is mad at the outcome. I'm glad they didn't go for two, because a win is not what I want, especially against a team with 1 win.
 

DJnVa

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Can we discuss why pushing a receiver OOB then basically negates that player? That's a stupid rule.

That said, that's both smart by Henry and a great play by that defender.
 

cshea

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I think the biggest takeaway from the game on Sunday is that Maye has the ability to carry a team. He accounted for 270 of the Pats 295 yards from scrimmage. In his 4th career start, coming out of the protocol.

Didn't get it across the finish line and there's certainly things to clean up but he is a baller. They had no business being in that game and he did all he could to drag them to the finish line.
 

Saints Rest

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This was interesting. The pressure on Maye on his last second TD pass was from a defender who had been covering Henry, until Henry stepped out of the back of the endzone making himself ineligible. At that point his defender joined the rush and nearly got there in time.

Amazing. Before throwing his game-tying TD at the end of regulation in Tennessee, Drake Maye lost a receiver. Watch Hunter Henry, top of the screen. Henry got knocked out of bounds and stayed there to avoid an illegal touching penalty. So his defender joined the rush and, after 11.82 seconds in the pocket, forced Maye to throw while playing 10-on-11. Maye scored anyway.

View: https://twitter.com/_AndrewCallahan/status/1853564852993966506
I first noticed this (Henry OOB) on one of those schematic versions of the play that has animated Xs and Os moving around the field. When the X, labeled 85, went out of the back of the end zone and just basically stopped there, it looked like some sort of video game glitch.
 

lexrageorge

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Can we discuss why pushing a receiver OOB then basically negates that player? That's a stupid rule.

That said, that's both smart by Henry and a great play by that defender.
I'm curious why the push on Henry is not considered illegal contact? Or does the end zone not count when the ball is snapped at the 5?
 

sezwho

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This might be its own thread, or in a coaching thread, or maybe it’s already being discussed somewhere else but….

I want to go on record as saying if the OC calls designed runs for Maye then I’ll gather up pitchforks and torches. Watching Daniel Jones get obliterated a couple time a game, with Barkley in the backfield no less, was maddening and I think impacted his accuracy.

Maye is going to get ragdolled plenty of times just in the normal course of play and he’s going to run quite a few times when the play breaks down, so I simply can’t understand the idea of actually handing him in the ball to run by choice.

Others may disagree, and I get the argument that having more offensive options is better, but not at this risk.
 

Toe Nash

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I don't see the Josh Allen comp. Maybe if Maye adds some muscle but Allen is a TRUCK and kind of always was, he was running designed QB runs his rookie season and bowling over guys. Maye is listed 6'5" 220 while Allen is 6' 3" 233 and I think Allen's bigger than that.

Plus, in his first season I think Allen's problem wasn't so much decision-making as accuracy particularly on short and medium throws. That was also an issue in college which was why it was surprising that he got so much more accurate. Maye seems to be more or less fine there.

The similarities are that they are both mobile and have good size, and came into the league somewhat raw. But Maye is a better passer and worse runner than Allen so far in their careers IMO, and probably will never be close to Allen as a runner.
 

Van Everyman

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I think the biggest takeaway from the game on Sunday is that Maye has the ability to carry a team. He accounted for 270 of the Pats 295 yards from scrimmage. In his 4th career start, coming out of the protocol.

Didn't get it across the finish line and there's certainly things to clean up but he is a baller. They had no business being in that game and he did all he could to drag them to the finish line.
You know, this is a really good point -- and probably the best criticism of Mac Jones that people instinctively knew but rarely voiced. We heard a lot about Mac's lack of physical tools and his mental makeup. But his biggest shortcoming may have been that he couldn't carry his teams to victory (or near-victory). Which is probably more important for a team in transition like the Pats have been the last few seasons than the wagon it was for many years before that.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I don't see the Josh Allen comp. Maybe if Maye adds some muscle but Allen is a TRUCK and kind of always was, he was running designed QB runs his rookie season and bowling over guys. Maye is listed 6'5" 220 while Allen is 6' 3" 233 and I think Allen's bigger than that.

Plus, in his first season I think Allen's problem wasn't so much decision-making as accuracy particularly on short and medium throws. That was also an issue in college which was why it was surprising that he got so much more accurate. Maye seems to be more or less fine there.

The similarities are that they are both mobile and have good size, and came into the league somewhat raw. But Maye is a better passer and worse runner than Allen so far in their careers IMO, and probably will never be close to Allen as a runner.
Allen's 6'5"
 

Van Everyman

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For all the crap we give Elliot Wolf for doing the obvious thing with drafting Maye, I think we have to give AVP credit for his development thus far of Maye, who was seen as very rough coming into draft with a lot of upside but also a ton of work to do. From what I can see so far as a layperson, Maye's progress has been impressive. His footwork seems to have improved from the mess we were told it was going into the season. His accuracy and decision making have been generally good. And he seems to be processing the game well enough.

There are obviously things Maye needs to work on -- including protecting himself from getting killed, ball security and not forcing passes into tight coverage. Those are plays you don't get away with for long in the NFL. And clearly, the offense overall is pretty bad. But if priority #1 this season was to get Maye ready for NFL games, then so far AVP has to be given a strong grade -- including for sitting him for the first several weeks of the season even when the on-field product was looking putrid.
 

BuellMiller

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On first-and-10, Maye attempted a deep ball over the middle to receiver Kayshon Boutte that hung up in the air and was intercepted by safety Amani Hooker.

"We were throwing into the wind and I have to put more on it. Just a dumb decision. Something you'd like to have back," he said. "Especially in that situation -- we could at least tie it up. Sometimes the best play is to throw it away."
Stupid question, and maybe it was discussed elsewhere (e.g. gamethread or game goat thread), but why were they going into the wind in OT, if they lost the cointoss. Was the wind swirling or did it shift its direction? Or did they just pick the wrong way to defend?
 

Mystic Merlin

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Stupid question, and maybe it was discussed elsewhere (e.g. gamethread or game goat thread), but why were they going into the wind in OT, if they lost the cointoss. Was the wind swirling or did it shift its direction? Or did they just pick the wrong way to defend?
Mayo admitted after the game that the wind changed during the course of the game, and they obviously didn’t account for it.
 

Eli95

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Stupid question, and maybe it was discussed elsewhere (e.g. gamethread or game goat thread), but why were they going into the wind in OT, if they lost the cointoss. Was the wind swirling or did it shift its direction? Or did they just pick the wrong way to defend?
We were sitting in the lower bowl. To start the game, the wind was blowing in the same direction as it did in overtime. It was infuriating to watch Mayo elect to kick the long field goal that missed in part because it was into the wind. The wind then shifted completely in the second half (later part of third quarter). It reversed again by overtime to where it was at the start of the game.

Kudos to Patriots fans still traveling, at least half the stadium.
 

snowmanny

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You know, this is a really good point -- and probably the best criticism of Mac Jones that people instinctively knew but rarely voiced. We heard a lot about Mac's lack of physical tools and his mental makeup. But his biggest shortcoming may have been that he couldn't carry his teams to victory (or near-victory). Which is probably more important for a team in transition like the Pats have been the last few seasons than the wagon it was for many years before that.
I agree on this. I think we guessed early on that Mac was never going to be, with any regularity anyway, the reason the Patriots won. But we thought he might be good enough to not be an ongoing reason as to why they lost. Nope.
 

rodderick

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I don't see the Josh Allen comp. Maybe if Maye adds some muscle but Allen is a TRUCK and kind of always was, he was running designed QB runs his rookie season and bowling over guys. Maye is listed 6'5" 220 while Allen is 6' 3" 233 and I think Allen's bigger than that.

Plus, in his first season I think Allen's problem wasn't so much decision-making as accuracy particularly on short and medium throws. That was also an issue in college which was why it was surprising that he got so much more accurate. Maye seems to be more or less fine there.

The similarities are that they are both mobile and have good size, and came into the league somewhat raw. But Maye is a better passer and worse runner than Allen so far in their careers IMO, and probably will never be close to Allen as a runner.
Drake Maye's current rushing stats extrapolated over a full season would amount to the best rushing year of Allen's career in yards per carry and success rate. He's averaging 10 yards per attempt running the ball. He's just a different style of runner and will likely not ever have Allen's TD totals, but no QB has added more EPA/Play on scrambles thus far.
 

cshea

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He has not had a kneel down, nor has he run a traditional short yardage QB sneak.

On the QB sneak or designed runs, AVP talked about being a bit hesitant to call them. They are trying to protect Maye as much as they can and they know he's going to run anyway so they don't want to add hits by calling designed runs. AVP said they really only want to go to that part of the playbook on gotta-have-it situations like a 4th and 1 on a game deciding drive and things like that.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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He has not had a kneel down, nor has he run a traditional short yardage QB sneak.

On the QB sneak or designed runs, AVP talked about being a bit hesitant to call them. They are trying to protect Maye as much as they can and they know he's going to run anyway so they don't want to add hits by calling designed runs. AVP said they really only want to go to that part of the playbook on gotta-have-it situations like a 4th and 1 on a game deciding drive and things like that.
I would think (hope) that there will be more and more boot action. I have seen a few plays in recent weeks- though some of it was off-script. Let him roll right, have a few reads or run- maybe on a 3rd and short from the +40.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Drake Maye's current rushing stats extrapolated over a full season would amount to the best rushing year of Allen's career in yards per carry and success rate. He's averaging 10 yards per attempt running the ball. He's just a different style of runner and will likely not ever have Allen's TD totals, but no QB has added more EPA/Play on scrambles thus far.
Not to mention a couple of other things:

College:

Maye: 302 rushes, 1,209 yards (4.0ypc), 16tds in 30 games
Allen: 237 rushes, 767 yards (3.2ypc) 12tds in 27 games

The idea that Drake Maye isn't as good a runner as Allen, and/or never will be, isn't tied to any reality I've seen. Maye was a better college runner at UNC (and passer) than Allen was at Wyoming.

Over his first 27 NFL starts, Allen was on the struggle bus throwing with 30tds, 21ints and a rating of 78.2. He became a runner during those two seasons, and put the ball on the ground 22 times during those 27 starts while figuring it out. Then they got Diggs, it opened up everything on the field, so his passing exploded, and all of a sudden, his new running ability was used as a weapon instead of a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency option. That first season with Diggs was his best season in the NFL as a passer, and got him 2nd in the MVP voting with a 107.2 rating (he's never had another season over 96.6), but coincidentally, it was by far his lowest rushing season of his career (only 102 attempts for 421 yards, but the 8tds).

IMO, Drake Maye is a more gifted runner, he's faster than Allen (4.60 to 4.75 in the 40), and more agile, whereas Allen is more of a straight line, break tackles/bowl guys over runner, as you mentioned. You won't see Allen allude guys like Maye did on that play last week, but you might see Allen break those tackles and make the throw.

I do agree that I want nothing to do with seeing designed runs for Maye this season, but I imagine we'll likely get plenty. Football coaches and football players are gonna coach and play the way they think they need to in order to win games and given what Maye is working with, him running the ball might be the most profitable offensive plays on the sheet.
 

Van Everyman

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Not to mention a couple of other things:

College:

Maye: 302 rushes, 1,209 yards (4.0ypc), 16tds in 30 games
Allen: 237 rushes, 767 yards (3.2ypc) 12tds in 27 games

The idea that Drake Maye isn't as good a runner as Allen, and/or never will be, isn't tied to any reality I've seen. Maye was a better college runner at UNC (and passer) than Allen was at Wyoming.

Over his first 27 NFL starts, Allen was on the struggle bus throwing with 30tds, 21ints and a rating of 78.2. He became a runner during those two seasons, and put the ball on the ground 22 times during those 27 starts while figuring it out. Then they got Diggs, it opened up everything on the field, so his passing exploded, and all of a sudden, his new running ability was used as a weapon instead of a break-glass-in-case-of-emergency option. That first season with Diggs was his best season in the NFL as a passer, and got him 2nd in the MVP voting with a 107.2 rating (he's never had another season over 96.6), but coincidentally, it was by far his lowest rushing season of his career (only 102 attempts for 421 yards, but the 8tds).

IMO, Drake Maye is a more gifted runner, he's faster than Allen (4.60 to 4.75 in the 40), and more agile, whereas Allen is more of a straight line, break tackles/bowl guys over runner, as you mentioned. You won't see Allen allude guys like Maye did on that play last week, but you might see Allen break those tackles and make the throw.

I do agree that I want nothing to do with seeing designed runs for Maye this season, but I imagine we'll likely get plenty. Football coaches and football players are gonna coach and play the way they think they need to in order to win games and given what Maye is working with, him running the ball might be the most profitable offensive plays on the sheet.
Great post. This tracks with what I’m seeing: that Maye had a higher ceiling than Allen out of college and is ahead of Allen’s NFL progress.

So who do you run out and get this off-season to be Maye’s Diggs?
 

cshea

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Great post. This tracks with what I’m seeing: that Maye had a higher ceiling than Allen out of college and is ahead of Allen’s NFL progress.

So who do you run out and get this off-season to be Maye’s Diggs?
Tee Higgins is 26 coming off the franchise tag. Age lines up with the Pats timeline so they could throw a bag of money at him, though they won't be the only team doing so. He's been hurt a bunch this year but feels a bit more like a business decision from him than anything too worrying long term but who knows.

The rest of the WR free agent market isn't great. Diggs himself is a free agent but he'll be 31 and coming off a torn ACL. Chris Godwin too, but he is also 29 and coming off major injury. Amari Cooper, 31 years old. Anecdotally it always seems like there's 1 or 2 disgruntled WR's every offseason that are unhappy with their situation and get noisy about wanting a trade. I'm not really sure who that is right now but I'm sure there will be some options from the trade market.

There will be options in the draft too, but obviously those come with more risk.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Tee Higgins is 26 coming off the franchise tag. Age lines up with the Pats timeline so they could throw a bag of money at him, though they won't be the only team doing so. He's been hurt a bunch this year but feels a bit more like a business decision from him than anything too worrying long term but who knows.

The rest of the WR free agent market isn't great. Diggs himself is a free agent but he'll be 31 and coming off a torn ACL. Chris Godwin too, but he is also 29 and coming off major injury. Amari Cooper, 31 years old. Anecdotally it always seems like there's 1 or 2 disgruntled WR's every offseason that are unhappy with their situation and get noisy about wanting a trade. I'm not really sure who that is right now but I'm sure there will be some options from the trade market.

There will be options in the draft too, but obviously those come with more risk.
It'll be a combination of taking a flyer on an aging vet, drafting, and trying to buy one in free agency. Then you go into next year and see what sticks.

I'm less worried about WR than I am the OL.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Great post. This tracks with what I’m seeing: that Maye had a higher ceiling than Allen out of college and is ahead of Allen’s NFL progress.

So who do you run out and get this off-season to be Maye’s Diggs?
Well, I think Diggs himself is an UFA after this season, but no, not him.

Frankly, I don't think there is a Diggs in his prime level WR on the market in free agency. Guys like Higgins and Godwin have been so successful because they've had legit studs on the other side. Keenan Allen is washed as a #1, still a good possession guy.

I think you need to get a true #1 through the trade market or the draft. We've seen AJ Brown, Diggs, Tyreek, Amari Cooper, Adams, etc. all moved via trade. With the Pats now not needing to use what will likely be a top 3 pick on a QB, this is the opportunity to turn that pick into a ton of picks both this year and next and then package some of those for a receiver. Do the Jets blow it up and put a guy like Wilson on the market (he's heading into his last year in 2025, with a club option in 2026) and would they deal with the Pats. 2025 is the final year of the contracts for Metcalf, Deebo, London, Evans, McLaurin, etc. Does Dallas blow it up and move Ceedee or the Rams move Puka and/or Kupp.

There's a lot of options, but we're a ways out from being able to put together a full picture on who will be available and who won't, who suffers injuries and who doesn't. I haven't done any kind of dive into this year's wide receiver draft class, You've got McMillan out of Arizona (I would prefer to avoid another, 4.5 40, Pac-12 receiver, but YMMV), Egbuka from Ohio State and Harris from Ole Miss currently at the top of the class. I like Burden from Missouri and Bond from Texas, but both have size issues...

Long way to go, but IMO, free agency is probably not the best option.