Mazzulla: Interim or Permanent...and When?

Shaky Walton

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 20, 2019
717
The Celtics start under Joe Mazzulla has been impressive on many levels.

They've gone 8-3 without arguably their third best player, the Time Lord, who is due back in a few weeks. And the ranking is not important, Robert Williams undoubtedly adds a dimension that they currently lack. And depth.

They've integrated seamlessly a superb 6th man in Malcom Brogdon, and a bench scorer in Sam Hauser that they totally lacked last season.

Tatum and Brown are playing at incredible levels; it's never surprising when they each put up 30 points and play shut down defense.

The point guard, Marcus Smart, has improved his passing, cut down on turnovers and has even improved his shot selection (very small sample).

Team chemistry looks to be outstanding.

They've given Big Al two maintenance games off without skipping a beat.

Blake Griffin has played sparingly but looked like he belonged in his extended minutes against the Knicks.

Luke Kornet has played well enough when called upon.

The only player who has fallen out of the regular rotation is Payton Pritchard, and with Brogdon playing as well as he has, who cares?

The players seem to respect and like Mazzulla.

Yes, it's early, but there's reason to be optimistic about these Celtics, and the fact that they lost Ime Udoka before the season appears to have been a speed bump and nothing more.

At the same time, Udoka's future hangs over them all to some extent. With the Nets being Kyried into removing Udoka from their dysfunctional equation, the former HC remains in limbo. And according to various reports, he's still on the minds of some of the players.
Marcus Smart said he was under the impression that Udoka would return to the Celtics following his one-year suspension for violations of organizational policies, and he was disheartened to see him possibly join a rival. Jaylen Brown said he was glad to see Udoka get a new opportunity, but added that it would have been “awesome” if Udoka had been able to stay with the Celtics.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/11/10/sports/celtics-players-keep-ime-udoka-mind-even-they-trust-joe-mazzulla/

So what do the Cs do?

They could:

- Give it a certain amount of games, say half the season, to make sure that Mazzulla continues on his current or upward path, before removing the "interim" tag.

- Wait until the season is over to do so.

- Actually bring back Udoka next year (seems highly unlikely, at best).

This all seems very delicate and fraught with at least some risk.

On the one hand, some of the players clearly have Udoka on their minds and, despite the Cs having made him available to the Nets, might not take kindly to the Team ending the chance that Ime could return.

On the other hand, Udoka being a possibility for next season could on some level undermine Mazzulla's authority, especially if and when the Cs hit a rough patch during this season or he makes a mistake or two that contribute to a Cs loss.

If forced to choose, I would opt for removing the interim title at around the halfway mark (assuming no material problems develop before then, which I think is a safe assumption). I think removing any uncertainty about the future will, even if it's only at the margins, enhance Mazzulla's ability to guide the team this year. I think they have a reasonable chance to win it all this season (not going out on a limb there, I know), and anything that even arguably increases those odds is a move that I think should be made. These chances don't come around all that often, as we know.

But I recognize that others may say or think that they should leave well enough alone, and not borrow trouble.

Thoughts welcomed.
 

sonofgodcf

Guest
Jul 17, 2005
1,646
The toilet.
Can they remove the interim title from Mazzulla if Udoka is still suspended? My guess is it becomes official at the end of the season, once they find a way to part with Ime. That approach also benefits the C's as they get a full year to evaluate Mazzulla before committing long-term (though I think he is/will continue to be a great fit for this team).
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
Can they remove the interim title from Mazzulla if Udoka is still suspended? My guess is it becomes official at the end of the season, once they find a way to part with Ime. That approach also benefits the C's as they get a full year to evaluate Mazzulla before committing long-term (though I think he is/will continue to be a great fit for this team).
Agreed. Big fan of what Joe has done so far, but they're going to play out the Ime thing before making any changes to JM's title or contract. Probably quietly negotiate an CIU buyout in the offseason and bump CJM.
 

ragnarok725

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 28, 2003
6,364
Somerville MA
Can they remove the interim title from Mazzulla if Udoka is still suspended? My guess is it becomes official at the end of the season, once they find a way to part with Ime. That approach also benefits the C's as they get a full year to evaluate Mazzulla before committing long-term (though I think he is/will continue to be a great fit for this team).
I think it's in everyone's best interest to resolve things before that. My money is on them finding a buyout/resolution with Ime in December or January and elevating JM at that point.
 

Everetts Dinosaurs

New Member
Jan 22, 2006
226
I think it's in everyone's best interest to resolve things before that. My money is on them finding a buyout/resolution with Ime in December or January and elevating JM at that point.
I agree. If I were Mazullla I'd be pissed if the interim tag dragged into the playoffs. Everyone deserves clarity. Clarity is emancipation.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
I agree. If I were Mazullla I'd be pissed if the interim tag dragged into the playoffs. Everyone deserves clarity. Clarity is emancipation.
JOE is the youngest HC in the NBA. He wasn't even a lead ast to IME last season. He was coaching a Division 2 team a few seasons ago. Now he is the HC for the BOSTON CELTICS. A team that played in the NBA Finals last season with tons of young talent.

I highly doubt he'd be pissed, he just caught the most amazing NBA coaching elevator since Spolstra or Van Gundy. There are clearly legal issues that surround UDOKA, Joe (& his agent) are cognizant of these issues. He (& his agent) are smart enough to realize that the job is eventually his. If the Nets hired IME, that probably would have resolved the legal issues. The Celtics didn't stand in the way of that hiring by asking for assets (as far as we know). I'd guess Brad has been in contact with Joe's agent/rep.

Let's not make up a problem where none exists, that's Shanks job.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
My guess is that a settlement with Ime will be worked out sometime during the depths of the regular season (January or February), after which the interim tag will be removed. There were enough stories* about players being upset that Ime would be coaching the Nets that it probably benefits all sides to give the players half a season to be comfortable with Mazzulla as HC before Ime is let go.

*: I think those stories were mostly media clickbait, but it's easy to see how the situation still touches a nerve among the players.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,672
This doesn't seem like it should be much of a distraction. If Joe can't keep it from being a distraction to either him or the players then he might not be the guy anyway.

Edit: To amplify I assume the FO had a conversation with him that went like "We are in a tight spot. Can you manage the team and focus on that and have confidence this will all work out in your favor. We need time to manage this other thing and we do not know how it will play out. Can you be OK with that and do the job and keep everyone focused on winning a title?" And I imagine he said "Yes" So if at any point he is "pissed" about what he agreed to and chooses to make additional headaches for the owners that would be pretty dumb and annoying. Doubt it will happen.
 
Last edited:

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,478
Melrose, MA
This doesn't seem like it should be much of a distraction. If Joe can't keep it from being a distraction to either him or the players then he might not be the guy anyway.

Edit: To amplify I assume the FO had a conversation with him that went like "We are in a tight spot. Can you manage the team and focus on that and have confidence this will all work out in your favor. We need time to manage this other thing and we do not know how it will play out. Can you be OK with that and do the job and keep everyone focused on winning a title?" And I imagine he said "Yes" So if at any point he is "pissed" about what he agreed to and chooses to make additional headaches for the owners that would be pretty dumb and annoying. Doubt it will happen.
Yes. I mean, Mazzulla has put himself on the board as the top candidate for any coaching job that opens, should he need one. There's no downside for him.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
How much is this Celtic screen/cut offense due to JOE's scheme?
a lot

Would IME have implemented it?
not sure

Was losing IME a blessing in disguise?
maybe

Feel free to weigh in, just asking the questions
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,100
How much is this Celtic screen/cut offense due to JOE's scheme?
a lot

Would IME have implemented it?
not sure

Was losing IME a blessing in disguise?
maybe

Feel free to weigh in, just asking the questions
To be fair to Ime, he kept saying most of last season that he would be emphasizing better ball movement. My inexpert view is that he emphasized defense first, either figuring that better team defense would be more likely to bear fruit given the roster he had, or because he's a coach that prefers defense. The ball movement did improve later in the season and in the playoffs until they just ran out of steam against a better Warriors team with a vastly superior bench.

Ultimately, the ball had to stop sticking in the hands of Tatum and Brown when the shot clock hit 10 seconds while everyone was standing around motionless. Mazzulla made a point in the preseason how he wanted to focus improving the team's offense. What is unknowable, IMO, is whether that was the plan all along with Ime, and Mazzulla is just implementing the plan. Or whether this improvement is due to Mazzulla taking the reins.

Regardless of the cause, the team is much more fun to watch without having to see long stretches of stagnant offense punctuated by Tatum trying to drive into 3 defenders. This roster is built for ball movement, no matter what the ball movement skeptics claim.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,504
How much is this Celtic screen/cut offense due to JOE's scheme?
a lot

Would IME have implemented it?
not sure

Was losing IME a blessing in disguise?
maybe

Feel free to weigh in, just asking the questions
I'm impressed by the Cs off-ball movement. The article about JB posted in his thread about Joe emphasizing getting the ball in the hands of the guards and having JT and JB move is impressive. I agree with you that I'm not sure if Ime would have implemented it.

His ATOs seem to have been fine and while I haven't studied this, it looks to me that the actions they are running with JB and JT off the ball (and JB and JT screening for each other) is opening up the floor.

Don't know what Ime would have done but we do have to give Mazzulla at least some of the credit for vaulting the Cs offense up the charts.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,242
Herndon, VA
If he came up with this, as a way of preventing blown leads by cutting down opposing teams' posssessions and giving his team breathers during the game, then hell yeah, I want to keep this coach.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-the-boston-celtics-new-game-clock-trick-is-confusing-referees-and-frustrating-opponents/

It all adds up (2 12 seconds like this, and they essentially cut off an opponent's possession) and forces defenses to play full court so that opposing teams can't set their half-court defense, which also boosts the C's offensive productivity.


Also, a way of keeping his starters on court extra minutes without making them work as hard.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,214
If he came up with this, as a way of preventing blown leads by cutting down opposing teams' posssessions and giving his team breathers during the game, then hell yeah, I want to keep this coach.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-the-boston-celtics-new-game-clock-trick-is-confusing-referees-and-frustrating-opponents/

It all adds up (2 12 seconds like this, and they essentially cut off an opponent's possession) and forces defenses to play full court so that opposing teams can't set their half-court defense, which also boosts the C's offensive productivity.


Also, a way of keeping his starters on court extra minutes without making them work as hard.
Thank you for sharing this article. Also, agreed that's the sort of thinking that finds value at the margins - you generally want to keep those people around.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
If he came up with this, as a way of preventing blown leads by cutting down opposing teams' posssessions and giving his team breathers during the game, then hell yeah, I want to keep this coach.


https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/how-the-boston-celtics-new-game-clock-trick-is-confusing-referees-and-frustrating-opponents/

It all adds up (2 12 seconds like this, and they essentially cut off an opponent's possession) and forces defenses to play full court so that opposing teams can't set their half-court defense, which also boosts the C's offensive productivity.


Also, a way of keeping his starters on court extra minutes without making them work as hard.
Grant adding a little backspin + screen makes it even more effective in burning clock and makes it harder to guard Smart full court.

Schroder did this a few times last season and it confused a bunch of folks.
 

TomTerrific

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,702
Wayland, MA
As stated above, doesn't Ime's contract stand in the way? Or does it?

IANAL, so can anyone with contracts experience weigh in? What does it matter what you call Joe Mazzulla, what matters is the contract he is on, right? I'm sure there are many details here that are flying right over me, so would appreciate the kind of educated commentary the SoSH Golden Horde of Lawyers should be able to provide.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
To be fair to Ime, he kept saying most of last season that he would be emphasizing better ball movement. My inexpert view is that he emphasized defense first, either figuring that better team defense would be more likely to bear fruit given the roster he had, or because he's a coach that prefers defense. The ball movement did improve later in the season and in the playoffs until they just ran out of steam against a better Warriors team with a vastly superior bench.

Ultimately, the ball had to stop sticking in the hands of Tatum and Brown when the shot clock hit 10 seconds while everyone was standing around motionless. Mazzulla made a point in the preseason how he wanted to focus improving the team's offense. What is unknowable, IMO, is whether that was the plan all along with Ime, and Mazzulla is just implementing the plan. Or whether this improvement is due to Mazzulla taking the reins.

Regardless of the cause, the team is much more fun to watch without having to see long stretches of stagnant offense punctuated by Tatum trying to drive into 3 defenders. This roster is built for ball movement, no matter what the ball movement skeptics claim.
Good analysis. I'm inclined to give significant credit to Joe simply because, while Ime wanted ball movement and diverse offense, Joe has rapidly come up with schemes and execution to get it consistently. Anytime a coach can implement execution of a style overhaul that rapidly, I think you have to give them serious coaching points, in the absence of the counterfactual.

It feels a lot like the stylistic change the Warriors did in going from Jackson to Kerr. No one thought the Celtics were a beautiful offense last year, even when they were good, but now they are must-watch TV.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Good analysis. I'm inclined to give significant credit to Joe simply because, while Ime wanted ball movement and diverse offense, Joe has rapidly come up with schemes and execution to get it consistently. Anytime a coach can implement execution of a style overhaul that rapidly, I think you have to give them serious coaching points, in the absence of the counterfactual.

It feels a lot like the stylistic change the Warriors did in going from Jackson to Kerr. No one thought the Celtics were a beautiful offense last year, even when they were good, but now they are must-watch TV.
There is a balance and give/take to all schemes and ideas. We gave up ball movement and pace last year for rebounding and defense. These were HIS lineups so to say he wants better ball movement and offense doesn’t pass my smell test. This year we are forced to get away from 2BIGZ so we sacrifice rebounding and defense for better ball movement, pace and offense.

Tomayto Tomahto
 

Bunt Single

New Member
Aug 11, 2010
120
Aside from the legal dimensions (which will certainly dictate the timing on the C's end), I think it's important to check in with the J's (and maybe Marcus) at least informally, behind-the-scenes to gauge how they'd feel about making Mazzulla permanent.
(*ducks)

Which, in turn, further supports putting off any decision for a month or two.

Actually, I imaging the players themselves might appreciate waiting a bit, seeing how things go, before weighing in on the matter .
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,243
Glob on Mazzula and timeouts:

With the trust of their coach, Celtics finding ways to win on their own - The Boston Globe

But on two occasions, Mazzulla allowed his team to wiggle their way out of jams. The Pelicans made a 15-2 push midway through the second period and Mazzulla waited until CJ McCollum hit a 3-pointer to slice the deficit to 5 to call a timeout. The Celtics responded with the next 7 points.
_________
“I absolutely love it,” was Mazzulla’s response when asked if he enjoyed watching his team maneuver their ways out of opposing runs. “I think you have to build an awareness for your team of what’s going on. And sometimes I like the fact that we have to execute through a run instead of calling a timeout.
“In order for us to be a great team, we have to handle those situations, we have to build an awareness and know how to execute. And quite honestly, I’ve watched a lot of timeouts where you call it and nothing good happens after the timeout.”
This is a personal preference for Mazzulla. He said it wasn’t a byproduct of what Ime Udoka didn’t do last season. He is attempting to build a resiliency in his team early, improve the ability to make plays under pressure, especially on the road. The New Orleans crowd was raucous, anticipating the home team would make a couple of more plays to even the game. The Pelicans never did.
White played for a coach in San Antonio in Gregg Popovich who would call timeouts after a 2-0 opposing run. He stopped the action the moment the momentum changed. This situation is different. Players aren’t looking to Mazzulla for relief. They have to save themselves.
“Pop probably called the fastest timeouts in the league,” White said. “I think a lot of it [with Mazzulla] is trust and I think he trusts us a lot to withstand those runs and make the right play. There’s a lot of trust both ways and you have to go out there and execute.”
Players are beyond the point where they’re looking to the sidelines, waiting for Mazzulla to stop the opposing surge. They are learning to trust themselves, a process that is making progress.
It may not be as extreme as Miyagi teaching Daniel how to wax cars or scrub floors, but the point is the same. Surviving runs now will train the Celtics never to relinquish their poise later.
“I think so at times it’s good,” Brown said of Mazzulla’s style. “It challenges us not only for the situation at hand but also it challenges us to be better down the line. I think that we’ve been in the NBA long enough to know how to get to our spots and how to correct some of our mistakes. We’ve got a poised team and that’s a lot of trust from our head coach that he instills in us to figure it out.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,214
Its early but at this point, you have to think "interim" is gone and the C's are just waiting for a the right time to announce that this is 100% Mazzulla's team.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Its early but at this point, you have to think "interim" is gone and the C's are just waiting for a the right time to announce that this is 100% Mazzulla's team.
Yes. He is coaching really, really confidently. I feel a lot more excited about the team's ability to adjust on the fly in playoff settings now than I did with Ime.

Feel free to flame away.
 

TomTerrific

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,702
Wayland, MA
I like the general thrust of Mazzulla's thoughts, but I hope he also recognizes that sometimes timeouts can be useful. If for no other reason than to give your guys a couple of minutes of rest, and because momentum is a thing in basketball. And because there's value in finishing off a game early sometimes so your starters log fewer minutes
 

Spelunker

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
11,884
Its early but at this point, you have to think "interim" is gone and the C's are just waiting for a the right time to announce that this is 100% Mazzulla's team.
Can they make that move while Ime is still under contract? I would assume nothing can change for ICJM until HCIU has moved along.
 

Shaky Walton

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 20, 2019
717
Yes. He is coaching really, really confidently. I feel a lot more excited about the team's ability to adjust on the fly in playoff settings now than I did with Ime.

Feel free to flame away.
Violent agreement. The Celts' offense totally stagnated in the last 3 games of the Finals. Blame the players but also blame Ime for not adjusting or doing anything, or so it seemed, to cause different results.

I am more optimistic about their HC now than I was with Ime by the end. And Ime was obviously very good at many things.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Its early but at this point, you have to think "interim" is gone and the C's are just waiting for a the right time to announce that this is 100% Mazzulla's team.
As someone said awhile back, you have the Udoka contract legalities that are the blockade here. I’m sure he’ll remain interim throughout the end of the year and once Udoka finds another job this summer we’ll be able to finalize a multi-year deal with Mazzulla.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Violent agreement. The Celts' offense totally stagnated in the last 3 games of the Finals. Blame the players but also blame Ime for not adjusting or doing anything, or so it seemed, to cause different results.

I am more optimistic about their HC now than I was with Ime by the end. And Ime was obviously very good at many things.
I'm happy it worked out and we got the (seemingly) better coach at the end of it all. Ime would have been impossible to replace otherwise, for awhile.

You can say that he would have had good assistants to help w Xs and Os but
a) that's a higher friction feedback loop
b) Hardy had already gotten a HC job and is killing it; Mazzulla would not have been far behind
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
If the season ended today, Mazzulla would win Coach of the Year in a landslide, right?
 

AlNipper49

Huge Member
Dope
SoSH Member
Apr 3, 2001
44,855
Mtigawi
Would he be, technically, the first "interim" coach to ever win the award? I realize that it's probably just semantics, but would be kinda neat.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
I would guess the Jazz will cool off at which point itll be hard to give it to the coach of an overachieving but still not great team.
Carlisle is a nice sleeper here too at +1100 and COY has some history of going to non-conference champions…..Doc (41-41), Scott Brooks (52-30), and most recently Thibs (41-31). I would gladly book any Hardy money for the reasons you mention above at that price. He should be similar to Carlisle whatever that correct price would be.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
I really like how Joe, when guys are out, doesn't mess with the 2nd unit rotation of Brogdon, Hauser, and Kornet.

He could have easily started Malcolm numerous times (or started Luke instead of Blake) but he wants that 2nd unit to create its own identity.

Joe is very disciplined in his timing/player use, he is making the opponent adjust to their substitutions.

With the depth of this roster, load management should be a feature between now and game #70
 

jmcc5400

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 29, 2000
5,219
I really like how Joe, when guys are out, doesn't mess with the 2nd unit rotation of Brogdon, Hauser, and Kornet.

He could have easily started Malcolm numerous times (or started Luke instead of Blake) but he wants that 2nd unit to create its own identity.

Joe is very disciplined in his timing/player use, he is making the opponent adjust to their substitutions.

With the depth of this roster, load management should be a feature between now and game #70
Yes, and Blake gave the starting line-up great energy on a night when the team could have been expected to play down to its opponent, given that it was the second night of a b2b and a lightly regarded Hornets team.
 

bosockboy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
19,863
St. Louis, MO
I really like how Joe, when guys are out, doesn't mess with the 2nd unit rotation of Brogdon, Hauser, and Kornet.

He could have easily started Malcolm numerous times (or started Luke instead of Blake) but he wants that 2nd unit to create its own identity.

Joe is very disciplined in his timing/player use, he is making the opponent adjust to their substitutions.

With the depth of this roster, load management should be a feature between now and game #70
I’d like to open up a 5-6 game lead on the #1 seed first, but agree.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,021
Imaginationland
The betting market has Mazzulla and Hardy neck and neck with Carlisle a distant 3rd
I would guess the Jazz will cool off at which point itll be hard to give it to the coach of an overachieving but still not great team.
The Jazz have already cooled off (2-8 over their last 10 games, down to 9th in the conference). For Hardy to have a shot they have to win at least 40 games, and I'd hammer the under on that.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
The Jazz have already cooled off (2-8 over their last 10 games, down to 9th in the conference). For Hardy to have a shot they have to win at least 40 games, and I'd hammer the under on that.
Yes, Mazzulla has the distinct advantage that his front office wants to win basketball games.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,021
Imaginationland
Yes, Mazzulla has the distinct advantage that his front office wants to win basketball games.
True, but these guys are graded on a curve. If Hardy were to somehow win 48 games, he'd be the runaway favorite for the award. If Mazzulla wins 48 games, forget COY, he might not even be the coach next year.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
True, but these guys are graded on a curve. If Hardy were to somehow win 48 games, he'd be the runaway favorite for the award. If Mazzulla wins 48 games, forget COY, he might not even be the coach next year.
Definitely--I was just agreeing with your point that I'd take the under on Hardy hitting 41 wins.

Mazzulla is going to need to significantly outperform regular season expectations to win the award; #1 seed at a minimum, probably over 60 wins too.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Definitely--I was just agreeing with your point that I'd take the under on Hardy hitting 41 wins.

Mazzulla is going to need to significantly outperform regular season expectations to win the award; #1 seed at a minimum, probably over 60 wins too.
Right but that is what he is trending early which is why he’s the favorite and will likely be a large one at thing once the market cools on Hardy.
 

Jimbodandy

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2006
11,406
around the way
Utah's top five players by DARKO are Conley, Clarkson, Markkanen, Olynyk, and Vanderbilt. They were set up for regression. You can only ride the high of "yay, we got that fucker Gobert out of town" for so long.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
JMazz's recent substitution pattern with Tatum is really interesting (& clever IMO)

JT, a notoriously slow starter, has been one of the first starters to get pulled in Q1/Q3. How many MVP candidates get pulled first? This lets Brown play all of Q1 with most of the starters. Then Tatum comes in at the beginning of Q2/Q4 with Brogdon and the rest of the bench mob which has turned into the C's death squad.

That will fly under the media voters for COTY but hardcore fans will be cognizant of Joe's unique rotational approach
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
JMazz's recent substitution pattern with Tatum is really interesting (& clever IMO)

JT, a notoriously slow starter, has been one of the first starters to get pulled in Q1/Q3. How many MVP candidates get pulled first? This lets Brown play all of Q1 with most of the starters. Then Tatum comes in at the beginning of Q2/Q4 with Brogdon and the rest of the bench mob which has turned into the C's death squad.

That will fly under the media voters for COTY but hardcore fans will be cognizant of Joe's unique rotational approach
And then tonight he went away from that to keep Tatum in against the zone all the way to the end of the 3rd, which was necessary.

Mazzulla adjusts impressively rapidly in-game and between games. Sign of confidence and coaching ability.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,124
Santa Monica
And then tonight he went away from that to keep Tatum in against the zone all the way to the end of the 3rd, which was necessary.

Mazzulla adjusts impressively rapidly in-game and between games. Sign of confidence and coaching ability.
Tatum was on a heater last night and if CJM had played him for 45mins (the entire 2nd half) I wouldn't have blamed him

JT was pulled at 6:39 of Q1 up 11 (23-12) and then the C's lead evaporated quickly
CJM brought him back at 3:35 (3-mins later) with C's down 27-25.
JT played all of Q2

JB scored 26pts but dealt with fouls, TOs & only played 28 mins. JT picked up the slack

Credit to Miami, they made it a game (rock fight), but Tatum was too much
 

Saints Rest

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Definitely--I was just agreeing with your point that I'd take the under on Hardy hitting 41 wins.

Mazzulla is going to need to significantly outperform regular season expectations to win the award; #1 seed at a minimum, probably over 60 wins too.
In my crappy opinion, COTY generally should go to that coach whose team shows the biggest delta between pre-season expected wins and actual wins. I say "pre-season expected wins" and not previous season, to account for the changes expected by personnel changes. Popovich didn't deserve COTY in 1998, despite his team going from 17 wins to 56 wins and NBA champs, because most of that heavy lifting came from adding Tim Duncan and David Robinson to the 97-98 team after neither one played a game for them the previous year.
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
9,193
San Francisco
In my crappy opinion, COTY generally should go to that coach whose team shows the biggest delta between pre-season expected wins and actual wins. I say "pre-season expected wins" and not previous season, to account for the changes expected by personnel changes. Popovich didn't deserve COTY in 1998, despite his team going from 17 wins to 56 wins and NBA champs, because most of that heavy lifting came from adding Tim Duncan and David Robinson to the 97-98 team after neither one played a game for them the previous year.
I think this is the implicit "theory" of COTY most voters have in their minds. Which is itself kind of funny because teams that overperform expectations are often because players pop as opposed to any special coaching. Look how many NBA coaches of the year are dumped like a year or two later.