Miami Heat: Pat Riley's Grease Fire

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
34,452
Haiku
Statman said:
 
Bosh has two championship rings already.  I don't think he gives two shits about chasing more rings while having to play 3rd banana AGAIN behind Howard and Harden.
 
There are also $30M reasons why Bosh is incentivized to stay in Miami and with Wade declining, he has the chance to be the face of the franchise.  Also, the Eastern Conference sucks ass so he's guaranteed to make the playoffs every year regardless of whether or not LBJ is on his team.
 
Exactly -- I'm pleased to see Bosh stay around where he can be The Man again on offense, because he can do it well. Given the choice between Miami and Houston as places to live, with $30M in sweeteners, it's not a difficult choice to understand.
 
edit: I am an unreconstructed Bosh fan since his days in Toronto, and don't care if he's working for Pat Riley or the Prince of Darkness.
 

nocode51

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 6, 2006
928
Maine
So how long until ESPN quietly retires the "Heat Index" and what do they come up with for a name for the new Cleveland one? Obviously their obsessive tracking of LBJ won't slow down just cause they missed the scoop. 
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
Sprowl said:
Exactly -- I'm pleased to see Bosh stay around where he can be The Man again on offense, because he can do it well. Given the choice between Miami and Houston as places to live, with $30M in sweeteners, it's not a difficult choice to understand.
 
edit: I am an unreconstructed Bosh fan since his days in Toronto, and don't care if he's working for Pat Riley or the Prince of Darkness.
Agreed. I don't like Miami, but I love me some Chris Bosh. Dinosaurs shouldn't be able to shoot threes, though, I don't think that fits the natural order of things.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,333
Blacken said:
Agreed. I don't like Miami, but I love me some Chris Bosh. Dinosaurs shouldn't be able to shoot threes, though, I don't think that fits the natural order of things.
On my phone so I won't even try to post it but I still fondly remember Bosh's Southern used car salesman video trying to get himself votes for the ASG.
 

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
For the Heat, a starting lineup with Wade, Bosh, Deng, Chalmers and McRoberts and a bench of Napier, Odien, Granger, Ennos, etc isn't shabby.
But does anyone see Miami as a true contender any more, especially if Wade's decline continues? IMHO it's a team that likely loses in the second round.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,745
Brickowski said:
But does anyone see Miami as a true contender any more, especially if Wade's decline continues? IMHO it's a team that likely loses in the second round.
 
It's pretty unclear still who the faves in the East are, we need to see if Love goes to CLE and where Stephenson ends up at the very least. I would have definitely gone for the volatile upside of Stephenson over the reliable competence of Deng if I were Riley, but I am most certainly not Riley. 
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
That's still, alarmingly, in the hunt for the East. Better than Charlotte or Toronto, probably a push with the Wiz or Cavs, probably worse than a not-completely-paralyzed Pacers team.
 

bowiac

Caveat: I know nothing about what I speak
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
12,945
New York, NY
Chalmers is mostly just another guy I think, but maybe he can be more as a creator than I think. 
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,695
knucklecup said:
Potential Starting Five:

- Chalmers
- Wade
- Deng
- McRoberts
- Bosh
 
Definition of competitive, but not a contender for a championship.
 

bball831

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,965
This will be fascinating to display Lebron's value to a team.  The Heat won 54 games on cruise control last year.  The 4 seed was 48 wins last year. I'd be surprised if this Heat team wins that may games if Wade isn't remarkably better and healthier than he was last season.  
 
This will be a big test for Spoelstra.  The offense needs to be revamped to work run through Bosh and having Wade and Deng be cutters off of his action.  Next shoe to drop will be Wade's salary.  Is he getting 4/60?
 

knucklecup

hi, I'm a cuckold
Jun 26, 2006
4,235
Chicago, IL
BigSoxFan said:
Wouldn't Atlanta be a good spot for Lance Stephenson? All they have at the 2 is Sefolosha and Jenkins. There's never been a better time for a team like Atlanta to get aggressive.
With Dallas having locked up Parsons, Atlanta is one of few suitors left for Stephenson.

Ultimately, I can't see him leaving Indiana though. Nobody believed in him but Bird. Their relationship is a bizarre one but one that I think will send him back to Indy.

Also, with Miami disbanded, Indiana has a very good chance next year.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
knucklecup said:
Potential Starting Five:

- Chalmers
- Wade
- Deng
- McRoberts
- Bosh
 
Who takes, and makes, the big shot in crunch time?
 

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
34,452
Haiku
E5 Yaz said:
 
Who takes, and makes, the big shot in crunch time?
 
Wade used to take and make the big shot back for the Heat back in the Shaq days. Bosh used to take just about every shot for the Raptors, and make most of them. Both of them deferred to Lebron because he was Lebron, but they are quite capable of creating on their own. The Celtics wish they had a shotmaker like Wade or Bosh, but all they've got is Avery Bradley. :blink:
 
That's not to cast aspersions at Bradley, whose signing I like, but Wade and Bosh are (or have been) legitimate all-start talents on their own.
 

Three10toLeft

New Member
Oct 2, 2008
1,560
Asheville, NC
Riley has done a relatively decent job trying to keep this team competitive while also locking these guys down to short term deals. Everyone comes off the books again, besides Bosh, in time to try and lure another big free agent in 2016. I wouldn't be surprised if Wade takes another deal with a player option in 2016, to keep the possibility alive of luring Durant down to Miami. Riley could start the pitch by showing how he turned Lebron in to a champion. Granted this is assuming that OKC doesn't find a way to lock him down or turn him in to a champion before this is possible.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,695
Sprowl said:
 
Wade used to take and make the big shot back for the Heat back in the Shaq days. Bosh used to take just about every shot for the Raptors, and make most of them. Both of them deferred to Lebron because he was Lebron, but they are quite capable of creating on their own. The Celtics wish they had a shotmaker like Wade or Bosh, but all they've got is Avery Bradley. :blink:
 
That's not to cast aspersions at Bradley, whose signing I like, but Wade and Bosh are (or have been) legitimate all-start talents on their own.
I think that's crazy talk. Yes, Wade used to -- but he's no longer that guy. And I guess bosh has, but I see no reason to assume he can still create on his own. It's been a long time and it isn't like the Heat were that deep. Bosh had opportunities but seemed very content to just spot up. I'll surprised if he can insta-convert himself into an alpha dog type. B
 

Sprowl

mikey lowell of the sandbox
Dope
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
34,452
Haiku
Tony C said:
I think that's crazy talk. Yes, Wade used to -- but he's no longer that guy. And I guess bosh has, but I see no reason to assume he can still create on his own. It's been a long time and it isn't like the Heat were that deep. Bosh had opportunities but seemed very content to just spot up. I'll surprised if he can insta-convert himself into an alpha dog type. B
 
I watched years of Bosh in Toronto, where he was very much an alpha dog and happy (maybe too happy) taking most of the shots. I was surprised and disappointed when he went into a shell in Miami. The guy had range comfortably out of 22 feet on the face-up jumper, he could and did drive with either hand and finish inside with his signature short jumper. The man had serious skillz, and I don't think they're all gone. This will be a reactivation, not an insta-conversion.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,032
Oregon
Tony C said:
I think that's crazy talk. Yes, Wade used to -- but he's no longer that guy. And I guess bosh has, but I see no reason to assume he can still create on his own. It's been a long time and it isn't like the Heat were that deep. Bosh had opportunities but seemed very content to just spot up. I'll surprised if he can insta-convert himself into an alpha dog type. B
 
I wonder also whether hitting key 3s when you're the third wheel might be easier for him than when you're the $120M man. 
 
They'll be a good team, particularly in the East, but so much of the offense went thru LeBron that no one knows for certain how the team works w/o him
 

Brickowski

Banned
Feb 15, 2011
3,755
E5 Yaz said:
 
 
 
They'll be a good team, particularly in the East, but so much of the offense went thru LeBron that no one knows for certain how the team works w/o him
Well, they have a good young pg who is a gamer and a better distributor than Chalmers.  I would expect Napier to supplant Chalmers, if not immediately then by the end of the year, and for the Heat to run a more guard-oriented offense.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,506
Guy on Bleacher Report wrote an article about how the Heat are still paying for some of their decisions - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2127762-after-lebron-james-departure-miami-heats-nba-debts-keep-piling-up.  As it turns out, RIley had to give away six draft picks to CLE and TOR in 2010 so that he could get LBJ and Bosh the sixth year that they wanted (as a sign and trade).  Turns out, they didn't need the sixth year.  :)
 
Also discussed the amnesty of Mike Miller.
 
I found this to be pretty amusing.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,105
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Guy on Bleacher Report wrote an article about how the Heat are still paying for some of their decisions - http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2127762-after-lebron-james-departure-miami-heats-nba-debts-keep-piling-up.  As it turns out, RIley had to give away six draft picks to CLE and TOR in 2010 so that he could get LBJ and Bosh the sixth year that they wanted (as a sign and trade).  Turns out, they didn't need the sixth year.  :)
 
Also discussed the amnesty of Mike Miller.
 
I found this to be pretty amusing.
 
I'm pretty sure I'd consider it a fair price to pay if I were a Heat fan.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
SoSH Member
Sep 20, 2005
8,105
BigSoxFan said:
That actually would make an interesting poll question:

How many future 1st round picks would you be willing to trade for a guaranteed championship (but nothing guaranteed after that)? I'd go at least 5.
 
If I had good reason to think that the picks would mostly be at the bottom on the first round (as the Heat did), 5 is a no-brainer.
 

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,213
BigSoxFan said:
That actually would make an interesting poll question:

How many future 1st round picks would you be willing to trade for a guaranteed championship (but nothing guaranteed after that)? I'd go at least 5.
 
All of them it would take---NBA titles are very hard to achieve and 1st round picks so unpredictable that a heavy discount rate should be applied.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,695
Sprowl said:
 
I watched years of Bosh in Toronto, where he was very much an alpha dog and happy (maybe too happy) taking most of the shots. I was surprised and disappointed when he went into a shell in Miami. The guy had range comfortably out of 22 feet on the face-up jumper, he could and did drive with either hand and finish inside with his signature short jumper. The man had serious skillz, and I don't think they're all gone. This will be a reactivation, not an insta-conversion.
 
 
It's going to be really fun to watch, and I'm rooting for him and wouldn't be surprised. That said, I pretty much agree with this Haberstroh article:
 
http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/story/_/id/11214117/can-chris-bosh-emerge-miami-heat-leader-nba
 
It's insider, but makes the following points:
-w/out Lebron on the floor and in big line-ups, Bosh has been the same player statistically as he was with LBJ there -- no "Toronto Bosh"
-w/out Lebron on the floor and in small line-ups, Bosh's individual numbers were very "Toronto Bosh" like, but the Heat were collectively a much worse team.
 
Interestingly enough, Bosh has struggled to assert himself in the big lineups. With another big taking up space in the paint, Bosh has averaged just 16.8 points and 7.0 rebounds per 36 minutes with 46.8 percent shooting. Not great. But when Spoelstra goes "small" with a shooter, Bosh morphs into Toronto Bosh: 20.8 points and 9.1 rebounds per 36 minutes on 51.1 percent shooting. Perhaps Toronto Bosh has been hiding all along.
But we left out one super important piece of the puzzle: the scoreboard.



Toronto Bosh emerges from Big 2?....
Heat's offensive and defensive ratings suffer in Big 2 lineups without James when they go small, even if Bosh excels individually.
 
Even though Bosh has put up better individual numbers in small lineups, the Heat have not fared well. In big two lineups without James, the Heat have outscored opponents by 1.7 points every 100 possessions overall. That's encouraging for the James-less Heat. But this is not: If we isolate the small big two lineups, the Heat got blown out by 10.1 points per 100 possessions. Yikes. But when the Heat go big? Miami outscored by 4.4 points every 100 possessions. See how that flips?


To recap: Bosh thrives in small lineups ... the Heat not so much. This presents something of a dilemma for Spoelstra. The challenge will be for him to design a system this summer that can maximize both Bosh and the Heat at the same time. Bosh might put up 20-and-10 numbers when he has more space to operate, but they might not be able to get away with it unless another traditional big can hold it down defensively
 
 
If that's the case, then it'll come down to what one thinks of McRoberts, Granger, and Deng. Personally I really like the first two signings -- McRoberts was excellent last year and I thought Granger was good in short spurts at the end of the year. Deng I'm far more dubious about.
 

Clears Cleaver

Lil' Bill
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
11,370
how much cap room does the Heat have left?
 
To me, where Stevenson goes shifts balance of power, especially if he stays east.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
SoSH Member
Sep 6, 2004
36,692
where the darn libs live
A buddy of mine is a huge Heat fan.  He's gone from saying "Heat fans are so gracious and are thanking LeBron" right after to straight up "Fuck LeBron and fuck his wife's juice bar!" today.

It's been fun to watch.