microsoft surface book and other product announcements today

wade boggs chicken dinner

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what if a company announced new products and no one showed up?
 
although the surface book does sound pretty sick.  267 ppi, 13.5-inch display, can get I7 with NVIDIA GeForce GPU (in the keyboard); up to 16GB GDDR5 RAM; claimed 12-hour battery life (extra battery in keyboard); detachable screen; plus a mouse/trackpad that is supposed to be up to Apple standards.
 
Of course top of the line config will cost $2,700-ish, but it's getting rave reviews from the limited information out there.  (E.g., http://www.wired.com/2015/10/surface-book-future-of-windows/).
 
Ohh and MS released some other stuff that people may or may not buy.  Actually, the Lumia 950s with Continuum sound pretty nifty. 
 

 
 

bowiac

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Biggest question for me is the trackpad. I tried to ditch my Mac and go back to a Windows laptop, but couldn't get over the terrible trackpads on all of them, so I ended up with another Macbook. Looking forward to playing with this in a store however.
 

Tony C

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Well, have to admit -- just got notified I'm up for a new computer and was presuming it'd be a MacBook...this is pretty intriguing, though:
 
Compared to the new MacBook, which counts as Apple’s vision for the future of mainstream laptops—tiny, thin, hardly any ports, very little power—the Surface Book is a beast. For $1,499 and up, you get a high-end Intel processor, up to 16GB of RAM and 1TB of storage, 12-hour battery life, and lots more. It’ll be a killer gaming machine and Xbox companion, a great tool for editing video and photos, and man will it make your Excel spreadsheets fly.
 
 
 
p.s.: correct link is here: http://www.wired.com/2015/10/surface-book-future-of-windows/
 

terrisus

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bowiac said:
Biggest question for me is the trackpad. I tried to ditch my Mac and go back to a Windows laptop, but couldn't get over the terrible trackpads on all of them, so I ended up with another Macbook. Looking forward to playing with this in a store however.
 
I can't understand people who use trackpads.
They're horrid - yes, even Apple ones.
 
Trackballs are far, far superior.
And you don't have to base an entire laptop purchase over one - you can get whichever one is actually good, since your trackball will work with any of them.
 

AlNipper49

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All I know is that it's popular to hate on Microsoft but the Surface3 has been the biggest hit in business computing since probably the first few versions of the Thinkpad.  It really is a pretty damn good machine.
 

terrisus

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AlNipper49 said:
All I know is that it's popular to hate on Microsoft but the Surface3 has been the biggest hit in business computing since probably the first few versions of the Thinkpad.  It really is a pretty damn good machine.
 
If I had the money for a Surface, I would be all over it like... well, like a surface.
 
As it is, I got a 2-in-1 convertible laptop.
A fairly cheap one, but at least running regular Windows 8.1.
 
I can't see the appeal of iOS in general, but especially not on an iPad where one is theoretically doing more actual "computer" stuff as opposed to Angry Candy Bird Crush Run or whatever.
 

AlNipper49

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yeah man, and if you want to know how well the Surface is doing just watch the most recent Apple event.  Usually they are a mix of "cool" and "oh, Android has done that for a year already" which is perfect ok to me because frankly when Apple does it it's usually a tad more polished than Android and new features aren't too exciting to me at this point.
 
This event was 50% "OK, Microsoft has us on the Surface, here is what we're doing to exactly copy it"
 
Mind you, Microsoft will still probably find a way to fuck this up.  It took me two hours to log into download Action Pack software today.  The process is effectively "Log in, select what you want and then it will start downloading".  Instead the fucking thing hammers me over to live.com, it doesn't log me in, when I do get logged in it's on a different site with different menus.  I had to go in via Chrome to make it work.  A complete fucking disaster for something so simple.
 

bowiac

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terrisus said:
And you don't have to base an entire laptop purchase over one - you can get whichever one is actually good, since your trackball will work with any of them.
You mean an external trackball? You can't understand why someone wants a laptop that functions well as a standalone device?
 

NortheasternPJ

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terrisus said:
 
I can't understand people who use trackpads.
They're horrid - yes, even Apple ones.
 
Trackballs are far, far superior.
And you don't have to base an entire laptop purchase over one - you can get whichever one is actually good, since your trackball will work with any of them.
 
Have you ever used an Apple trackpad for an extensive period of time?
 
I've got a Lenovo Windows laptop, a Macbook, a bluetooth mouse and a trackball. I wouldn't use anything but the Mac trackpad if i don't have to. I used to love trackballs, but unless I'm gaming I hate them now. My bluetooth mouse and trackball sit next to my Macbook Pro on the desk 98% of the time.
 
Windows trackpads are a complete joke from what I've used, primarily Lenovo and HP over the last 5 years. 
 
I love my Macbook regardless of the trackpad, so I didn't base my decision that but after 5 years on Windows laptops for work, I was dying to get a Macbook back since being highly mobile, even if I thought trackballs were great now, it doesn't work for me half the time.
 
What is so great about a trackball that it's "far far superior" I'd say its a personal preference at best.
 
 
I can't write below this for some reason but Nip is 100% correct. Many of my customers love their Surface 3's and have replaced their Windows laptop with it. it's a machine that seems to be very good at what it does. if it was between a Windows laptop and a Surface 3 for me I'd probably go Surface 3 at this point.
All I know is that it's popular to hate on Microsoft but the Surface3 has been the biggest hit in business computing since probably the first few versions of the Thinkpad.  It really is a pretty damn good machine.  
 

terrisus

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bowiac said:
You mean an external trackball? You can't understand why someone wants a laptop that functions well as a standalone device?
 
Not at the cost of sacrificing so much else about the device.
 
Plus, I mean, if you're carrying around a laptop anyway, it's not like trackballs are that big/take up that much space or something. 


 
NortheasternPJ said:
Have you ever used an Apple trackpad for an extensive period of time?
Yes.

I mean, it's an improvement over the horrible mouse they forced on people for years, but that's not saying very much.

 
NortheasternPJ said:
What is so great about a trackball that it's "far far superior" I'd say its a personal preference at best.
Well, sure, personal preference.
Some people prefer things that are worse, despite the fact that they're worse. That's their choice.

As far as what makes it superior, among many other things:

1) As I said, being able to get whatever computer you want without having to make a choice for a computer based on that.

2) Being able to place it wherever you want, as opposed to craning your arm around to the front of the computer to control it.

3) Actual physical sensation of what is happening or not happening, as opposed to just moving your finger over a flat surface.


EDIT: I'll drop it at this, since my comment was more made as a tangential comment. If anyone wants, they can always PM me.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Biggest question for me is the trackpad. I tried to ditch my Mac and go back to a Windows laptop, but couldn't get over the terrible trackpads on all of them, so I ended up with another Macbook. Looking forward to playing with this in a store however.
About the trackpad, here's what the Verge has to say (http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/6/9456137/microsoft-surface-book-laptop-hands-on):

Windows laptops have always had awful trackpads, but Microsoft is breaking free from the pack. There's a glass trackpad, and it feels as good as a MacBook one. We'll have to test it fully, but there's signs that the Surface Book might finally have a killer trackpad. Microsoft has also added in special edge palm rejection, so it's not going to activate when you're using the keyboard.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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All I know is that it's popular to hate on Microsoft but the Surface3 has been the biggest hit in business computing since probably the first few versions of the Thinkpad.  It really is a pretty damn good machine.
I think you mean Surface Pro 3, although the Surface 3 is interesting (to me) because it runs full windows but has LTE connectivity.

And leave it up to MS to mess up the branding between Surface Pro and regular Surface.
 

NortheasternPJ

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terrisus said:
 
Not at the cost of sacrificing so much else about the device.
 
Plus, I mean, if you're carrying around a laptop anyway, it's not like trackballs are that big/take up that much space or something. 


 

Yes.

I mean, it's an improvement over the horrible mouse they forced on people for years, but that's not saying very much.



Well, sure, personal preference.
Some people prefer things that are worse, despite the fact that they're worse. That's their choice.

As far as what makes it superior, among many other things:

1) As I said, being able to get whatever computer you want without having to make a choice for a computer based on that.

2) Being able to place it wherever you want, as opposed to craning your arm around to the front of the computer to control it.

3) Actual physical sensation of what is happening or not happening, as opposed to just moving your finger over a flat surface.
 
Comparing it to the stupid hockey puck mouse is not even relevant. 
 
1 - Fair point, but when buying a laptop the main way you use a computer is very relevant. This is a typical response from a Windows user used to shitty trackpads or a person who sits at  one desk every day.
2 - Personal preference. I find an external mouse or trackpad a nuisance in all cases. I hate using an external keyboard and a mouse in my home office, when at a customer, it's even more annoying and when in a tight area like a  coffee shop, it's even worse. The keyboard and trackpad on my Macbook are great. my external devices are never used. It's all personal preference.
3 - What does this mean? You feel the ball rolling? I find tap to click, pinch to zoom, two finger scrolling, three finger swiping for spaces etc. a much more intuitive experience than rolling a ball around and using 2-4 button to accomplish the same thing. Add in Force Touch / 3D Touch that only enhances it.
 
If you are on the road, going to multiple places per day, then yes, carrying around a trackball, plugging it in, finding the desk / table space, is a nuisance. It shouldn't be necessary for decent computing experience for a mobile device. 
 

terrisus

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NortheasternPJ said:
1 - Fair point, but when buying a laptop the main way you use a computer is very relevant. This is a typical response from a Windows user used to shitty trackpads or a person who sits at  one desk every day.
Your attempt at a strawman categorization of me fails miserably, considering I don't fit into your "used to shitty trackpads" or "sits at one's desk every day." Sorry.

NortheasternPJ said:
If you are on the road, going to multiple places per day, then yes, carrying around a trackball, plugging it in, finding the desk / table space, is a nuisance. It shouldn't be necessary for decent computing experience for a mobile device. It's like saying "oh well just carry around an external monitor if you don't like the built in one"
Let's go down these points:
1) Plugging it in - you don't have to. Wireless trackballs exist.
2) Finding the desk/table space - again, you don't have to. Put it on your leg. Your other arm. Your head. Heck, put it on the front of the laptop where the trackpad is. It's literally not as issue at all.
3) Comparing it to a monitor? Really? That's beyond absurd, and obviously there isn't any point to discussing it further with that kind of hyperbole. EDIT: I guess you edited out the reference comparing it to a monitor, which at least makes the post less absurd. But, yeah, as I had edited into my previous post, there's really no point to further discussions on the matter, since, 1, my comment was intended to be tangential and not a focus of discussion, and 2, it's obviously not a productive conversation to have (as I know well from previous such discussions).
 

NortheasternPJ

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terrisus said:
Your attempt at a strawman categorization of me fails miserably, considering I don't fit into your "used to shitty trackpads" or "sits at one's desk every day." Sorry.


Let's go down these points:
1) Plugging it in - you don't have to. Wireless trackballs exist.
2) Finding the desk/table space - again, you don't have to. Put it on your leg. Your other arm. Your head. Heck, put it on the front of the laptop where the trackpad is. It's literally not as issue at all.
3) Comparing it to a monitor? Really? That's beyond absurd, and obviously there isn't any point to discussing it further with that kind of hyperbole. EDIT: I guess you edited out the reference comparing it to a monitor, which at least makes the post less absurd. But, yeah, as I had edited into my previous post, there's really no point to further discussions on the matter, since, 1, my comment was intended to be tangential and not a focus of discussion, and 2, it's obviously not a productive conversation to have (as I know well from previous such discussions).
Enjoy your trackball then.

Moving on I'm very interested to see how the Surfacebook trackpad stands up. Hopefully it's solid. I hope the surface book takes off as its desperately needed in the Enterprise.

Our office is giving out the new Lenovos with the touch screen and the screens are god awful in natural light and the responsiveness is terrible for touch on the screen.
 

derekson

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The Surface Pro 4 looks like a good improvement on a useful product, but the Surface Book seems like a miss to me. It's competing against Pro level laptops, so the comparisons to a Core M machine like the MacBook seem weird. Of course it has more performance and expandability than a Core M laptop that weighs 2 lbs.; it's a 3.4-3.5 lb. laptop computer with a LV (not ULV) Core i5/i7 and the option of a discrete GPU. But in that segment, compared to conventional laptops, all you're gaining is the ability to detach the screen to use as a tablet at the price of an awkward hinge that increases thickness and adds a point of failure. And the tablet usage seems pretty limited since almost all of the batteries are located in the base. They're quoting 3 hours of battery life for the tablet, so I imagine that means in reality you'll be lucky to get 2 hours. What's the point of having a 1.6 lb tablet form if you need to carry the ~1.8 lb dock around to get any kind of useful battery life? It seems like they did this purely so they could advertise that they offer a 7.3 mm thick 1.6 lb i5/i7 computer. And as far as I can see it only offers dual core i5/i7, and at $1900 minimum for a discrete GPU model that seems underwhelming.
 
I think a MacBook Pro or a Razer Blade (both quad core at the price a dGPU Surface Book runs) make more sense than this thing for most people. And the Surface Pro seems like a better device if you want a hybrid that can replace both laptop and tablet since it actually has batteries in the tablet portion.
 

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I thought they compared the Surface Book to the MacBook Pro. They said it's twice as fast. I wonder in which specific use case it's true but if it is, it's a killer product.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I haven't seen the video of the announcement but with Skylake and a dedicated GPU the most likely place to get that multiple of performance would be games that are GPU intensive.

Edit. I found it

In fact Microsoft claims the top specced i7 model is 50% faster than Apple's Macbook Air, however expect the Core M version to have similar performance to Apple's new and thin Macbook.
Read more at http://trustedreviews.com/news/microsoft-surface-pro-4-release-date-specs-price-buy-features-news#zFGAGsqDfT79QHgy.99

So a just released $2299 Surface Pro 4 is 50% faster than a 7 month old $1649 MacBook Air?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I haven't seen the video of the announcement but with Skylake and a dedicated GPU the most likely place to get that multiple of performance would be games that are GPU intensive.

Edit. I found it

In fact Microsoft claims the top specced i7 model is 50% faster than Apple's Macbook Air, however expect the Core M version to have similar performance to Apple's new and thin Macbook.

So a just released $2299 Surface Pro 4 is 50% faster than a 7 month old $1649 MacBook Air?
I think people are getting confused on the MacBook branding. Panay (MS exec who did the launch) said it was twice as fast as MB Pro not Air (or MB for that matter). (He also said something that made it seem like it was quad core, but that remains to be seen.)

At any rate, this article - http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989727/laptop-computers/how-microsofts-surface-book-compares-to-apples-macbook-lets-play-cpu-detective.html - goes into depth on the chip possibilities and concludes that the claim probably refers to the graphics speed based on the Nvidia chip.

edit: I see your review did mention SP4 so maybe you were referring to that and not Surface Book. As for price, an I5 SP4 w/ 8GB RAM and 256GB storage can be had for $1300; while tricked out version goes for $2700, I'm sure most people won't need all of that.
 

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The Surface Pro 4 looks awesome to me. I both travel and am on the road in meetings a lot and do a lot with VMs. At the beginning of the year I went with a Samsung Ativ Book 9, which has been okay but is limited to 8 GBs or RAM and a 256 GB SSD, which has been a bit limiting for me. Additionally, I'm a huge fan of having a dock for my office where I can put the PC down and have it charging and connected to everything on my desk. I was looking at the SP3 at the same time last year and even though the specs were similar to the Samsung I bought, I heard complaints that the CPU wasn't quite where it needed to be performance-wise.
 
I'd love the SP4 with the i7, 16 GBs of RAM and the 512 GB SSD and dock.
 

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
I think people are getting confused on the MacBook branding. Panay (MS exec who did the launch) said it was twice as fast as MB Pro not Air (or MB for that matter). (He also said something that made it seem like it was quad core, but that remains to be seen.)

At any rate, this article - http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989727/laptop-computers/how-microsofts-surface-book-compares-to-apples-macbook-lets-play-cpu-detective.html - goes into depth on the chip possibilities and concludes that the claim probably refers to the graphics speed based on the Nvidia chip.

edit: I see your review did mention SP4 so maybe you were referring to that and not Surface Book. As for price, an I5 SP4 w/ 8GB RAM and 256GB storage can be had for $1300; while tricked out version goes for $2700, I'm sure most people won't need all of that.
 
I read about 10 different reviews and everyone said something a little bit different.
 
One said it was against Macbook, the other against Air, then one about Pro 13, then one said they used a 2012 Macbook Pro as a comparison. It was really all over the place.
 
The reason I quoted the price of the $2,299, the reason I quoted that price is because Microsoft used the top end in comparison for speed, which is the $2,300 one. 
 

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Dernells Casket n Flagon said:
The Surface Pro 4 looks awesome to me. I both travel and am on the road in meetings a lot and do a lot with VMs. At the beginning of the year I went with a Samsung Ativ Book 9, which has been okay but is limited to 8 GBs or RAM and a 256 GB SSD, which has been a bit limiting for me. Additionally, I'm a huge fan of having a dock for my office where I can put the PC down and have it charging and connected to everything on my desk. I was looking at the SP3 at the same time last year and even though the specs were similar to the Samsung I bought, I heard complaints that the CPU wasn't quite where it needed to be performance-wise.
 
I'd love the SP4 with the i7, 16 GBs of RAM and the 512 GB SSD and dock.
This is important to me as well - did the SP3 have a docking solution? Anyone know if the SP4 or SB have one?
 

NortheasternPJ

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One question I do have is how is this not going to break?
 

 
Seems like putting anything on it in a laptop bag, luggage, would break that.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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jimv said:
This is important to me as well - did the SP3 have a docking solution? Anyone know if the SP4 or SB have one?
 
Yes, there has always been a docking station for SP3 (and SP2 for that matter). 
 
Also, they are apparently putting out a new version that supports SP3, SP4, and SB.  http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/06/microsoft-surface-pro-docking-station/
 
Note there is also a docking station for the new Lumia phones that allow you to use it "like" a computer.
 
I think MS is correct that as chip technology gets better, there is going to be a convergence of devices.  I think we will have one main "processing" device that we can stick in and out (or otherwise use with) a bunch of different form factors depending on what I'm doing at the moment.
 
And if I were doing that futurist thing, I suspect that in about 50 years, that processing device will be embed within or in close proximity to our bodies.
 

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Dernells Casket n Flagon said:
The Surface Pro 4 looks awesome to me. I both travel and am on the road in meetings a lot and do a lot with VMs. At the beginning of the year I went with a Samsung Ativ Book 9, which has been okay but is limited to 8 GBs or RAM and a 256 GB SSD, which has been a bit limiting for me. Additionally, I'm a huge fan of having a dock for my office where I can put the PC down and have it charging and connected to everything on my desk. I was looking at the SP3 at the same time last year and even though the specs were similar to the Samsung I bought, I heard complaints that the CPU wasn't quite where it needed to be performance-wise.
 
I'd love the SP4 with the i7, 16 GBs of RAM and the 512 GB SSD and dock.
 
I think that if you go to Samsung's website, they do sell a dock you can use on your laptop.
 
Beyond not being enough for your computing needs, how do you feel about the Ativ? I am looking for a laptop for my sister who would be doing basic business stuff like word processing, excel and powerpoint. Does the M processor stack up?
 

derekson

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
 
Yes, there has always been a docking station for SP3 (and SP2 for that matter). 
 
Also, they are apparently putting out a new version that supports SP3, SP4, and SB.  http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/06/microsoft-surface-pro-docking-station/
 
Note there is also a docking station for the new Lumia phones that allow you to use it "like" a computer.
 
I think MS is correct that as chip technology gets better, there is going to be a convergence of devices.  I think we will have one main "processing" device that we can stick in and out (or otherwise use with) a bunch of different form factors depending on what I'm doing at the moment.
 
And if I were doing that futurist thing, I suspect that in about 50 years, that processing device will be embed within or in close proximity to our bodies.
 
I imagine if you asked most anyone in the business they'd agree that we'll go that way eventually, but it won't come via taking your phone out and plugging it into a dock, it will be done via whatever replaces bluetooth and has higher bandwidth to send enough data to communicate with a dock and a monitor etc. It's just another thing that seems like a total gimmick at this point though; if you're going to spend the money on a decent monitor and a keyboard and mouse, won't you likely spend a few hundred more for a PC to connect it to rather than plugging in a relatively underpowered phone? It's one of those things that's an interesting demo of technology but doesn't seem especially likely to be useful in day to day life at present.
 
It could come sooner than we think though; the A9 chip in the iPhone 6S apparently puts out GeekBench numbers on par with the i5 chip that was in a MacBook Air about 3 years ago.
 

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Nick Kaufman said:
 
I think that if you go to Samsung's website, they do sell a dock you can use on your laptop.
 
Beyond not being enough for your computing needs, how do you feel about the Ativ? I am looking for a laptop for my sister who would be doing basic business stuff like word processing, excel and powerpoint. Does the M processor stack up?
 
I ended up purchasing a Startech USB3 doc that does Displayport out at 2560x1440. It's not perfect, but works pretty well for the most part. One of my complaints is that the only display outputs are VGA (via adapter) and micro-HDMI, which limits the maximum resolution of an external monitor.
 
Mine has the i7 processor, so no issues there. I love the form factor and hardware. 
 

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wade boggs chicken dinner said:
 
Yes, there has always been a docking station for SP3 (and SP2 for that matter). 
 
Also, they are apparently putting out a new version that supports SP3, SP4, and SB.  http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/06/microsoft-surface-pro-docking-station/
 
Note there is also a docking station for the new Lumia phones that allow you to use it "like" a computer.
 
I think MS is correct that as chip technology gets better, there is going to be a convergence of devices.  I think we will have one main "processing" device that we can stick in and out (or otherwise use with) a bunch of different form factors depending on what I'm doing at the moment.
 
And if I were doing that futurist thing, I suspect that in about 50 years, that processing device will be embed within or in close proximity to our bodies.
 
 
This dock will let the SB remained closed while powering a big fat desktop monitor? Yes?
 

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Pre orders are starting
 
Surface Book, i7, 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM = $2099 for a system that runs only Windows 10
Macbook Pro, i7, 256GB SSD, 16GB RAM = $1999 for a system that runs Windows 10 and OSX
 
Is having a detachable screen really worth an extra $100? It doesn't appear to have HDMI, either, and can only be expanded to 512GB for the SSD. 
 
The Surface Book with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD costs the same ($2699) as the MBP with a 1TB SSD.
 

derekson

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So it turns out that the SurfaceBook is using ULV dual core processors, not the LV 28W TDP processors I had assumed it was using when they compared it to the MacBook Pro. These are the same processors used in the MacBook Air and other "ultrabooks". The MBA is using Broadwell chips at the moment and these are the next generation Skylake chips, but they're still ultraportable chips not workhorse laptop chips. I can't believe they're only getting 3 hours quoted battery life out of the tablet portion despite using ULV processors. That's pretty weak, and it makes this a much less unique proposition. It's a 3.4-3.5 lb. laptop using chips that are in most 2 lb. laptops that costs way more than those laptops. It is adding a discrete GPU, but most people who want a dGPU are going to want a higher powered CPU than this.
 
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989906/laptop-computers/here-are-the-details-of-the-surface-book-and-surface-pro-4-chips-and-why-they-matter.html
 

derekson

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mt8thsw9th said:
Pre orders are starting
 
Surface Book, i7, 256GB SSD, 8GB RAM = $2099 for a system that runs only Windows 10
Macbook Pro, i7, 256GB SSD, 16GB RAM = $1999 for a system that runs Windows 10 and OSX
 
Is having a detachable screen really worth an extra $100? It doesn't appear to have HDMI, either, and can only be expanded to 512GB for the SSD. 
 
The Surface Book with 16GB RAM and a 512GB SSD costs the same ($2699) as the MBP with a 1TB SSD.
 
The MacBook Pro you're comparing also has a 15.4" screen vs 13.5" and a 47W quad core i7 vs a 15W dual core i7.
 

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A Lost Time
derekson said:
So it turns out that the SurfaceBook is using ULV dual core processors, not the LV 28W TDP processors I had assumed it was using when they compared it to the MacBook Pro. These are the same processors used in the MacBook Air and other "ultrabooks". The MBA is using Broadwell chips at the moment and these are the next generation Skylake chips, but they're still ultraportable chips not workhorse laptop chips. I can't believe they're only getting 3 hours quoted battery life out of the tablet portion despite using ULV processors. That's pretty weak, and it makes this a much less unique proposition. It's a 3.4-3.5 lb. laptop using chips that are in most 2 lb. laptops that costs way more than those laptops. It is adding a discrete GPU, but most people who want a dGPU are going to want a higher powered CPU than this.
 
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2989906/laptop-computers/here-are-the-details-of-the-surface-book-and-surface-pro-4-chips-and-why-they-matter.html
 
This is happening because most of the batteries reside in the keyboard frame.
 

derekson

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Jun 26, 2010
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Nick Kaufman said:
 
This is happening because most of the batteries reside in the keyboard frame.
 
I'm well aware of that, but not having enough batteries in the tablet portion to get more than 3 hours (on paper, probably less real world) with an ULV chip is a design failure IMO. To me, it was an understandable if disappointing limitation if it had a 28W chip but with the ULV chip it's just a failure.
 
Hell, compare it to a Surface Pro 4. You get the same processors (except the i7 is the version with Iris graphics since no dGPU) and you get a quoted 9 hours of battery out of a 1.73 lb package with a 12.3" screen vs 13.5". If you want more than the 3 hour battery life out of the Surface Book, you need to take the entire 3.4 lb device along with you. And the Surface Book costs substantially more.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Mar 26, 2005
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derekson said:
 
I'm well aware of that, but not having enough batteries in the tablet portion to get more than 3 hours (on paper, probably less real world) with an ULV chip is a design failure IMO. To me, it was an understandable if disappointing limitation if it had a 28W chip but with the ULV chip it's just a failure.
 
Hell, compare it to a Surface Pro 4. You get the same processors (except the i7 is the version with Iris graphics since no dGPU) and you get a quoted 9 hours of battery out of a 1.73 lb package with a 12.3" screen vs 13.5". If you want more than the 3 hour battery life out of the Surface Book, you need to take the entire 3.4 lb device along with you. And the Surface Book costs substantially more.
 
Does this mean that the IPad Pro isn't really "faster than 80% of the processors of portable PCs that were shipped in the last 12 months, and faster than 90% of the graphics of the portable PC shipped"?
 
The only reason to get a Surface Book, in my opinion, is for the custom NVIDIA graphics chip.  When you take that into account, the SB should have remarkable graphics performance.  Of course, most of us mere mortals don't need anything close to that in terms of performance, so people who buy the top end SBs will probably be doing so based on form and not whether the SB is really "twice as powerful" as any MacBook Pro.
 
And in fact, the top-end SB is already sold out apparently (for whatever that is worth): http://www.techradar.com/us/news/computing/pc/top-end-surface-book-sells-out-on-microsoft-store-1306546.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Nov 16, 2004
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Looks like a bit of a rocky start
 
http://www.zdnet.com/article/surface-book-suffers-from-launch-day-bugs/#ftag=YHFb1d24ec
 


Note that Microsoft doesn't seem to have set up an official support forum for the Surface Book as of yet, so many of these reports are coming via third-party sources.
Here are some of the issues affecting the Surface Book as reported by new owners:
  • Dead on arrival (or badly limping on arrival) Surface Books 
  • Random crashes and lockups
  • Surface Book systems working fine until they're updated, following which they fail to load 
  • Surface Book systems failing to boot when in the dock 
  • Detaching the Surface Book from the dock results in an error (the most common being related to SearchUI) 
  • Weird screen color temperature issue when scrolling web pages (see video below) 
  • Random display driver errors displayed every 10 to 20 minutes 
  • Random trackpad freezes