Milwaukee Bucks boycott Game 5 vs Orlando

AMS25

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I am going to find common ground - I don't know your background but as someone who isn't part of the aggrieved class, I am choosing to let those people decide how they want to make statements. They don't need my help or anyone else's in terms of defining the problem or the response.
This is a good point. As someone who studies the effectiveness of social movement strategy and tactics, it's hard to predict "what works." Each group has to decide for itself how it wants to effect public change.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Hard to judge much of anything now before seeing how this all plays out. If this ends up just having all games today (or even, say, this week), I certainly have no issue with the players choosing to express themselves that way but ultimately it will be a footnote to the season if things just proceed as planned from here, but just delayed a bit.

On the other hand, if the players just straight up say "we're done with the season, we all want to focus on using our social position to try to effectuate change" - that would be a massive deal and would put the NBA in a very bad position where they'd either have to just accept it and the resultant financial loss, or litigate it and risk coming across as entitled rich assholes suing their players.

Edit: also, I'm very interested to see if this has bleed over into other sports. I tend to think that the people who would be most pissed off by this walkout are the same people that probably wouldn't be NBA fans in the first place. But if the NHL and MLB players also start refusing to play, that would likely reach a much different, potentially more conservative audience.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Probably sets a strong precedent for not only other NBA games, but all athletes/teams competing in American sports right now.
It's different for the Bucks because it's their hometown (essentially).
 

cornwalls@6

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Hard to judge much of anything now before seeing how this all plays out. If this ends up just having all games today (or even, say, this week), I certainly have no issue with the players choosing to express themselves that way but ultimately it will be a footnote to the season if things just proceed as planned from here, but just delayed a bit.

On the other hand, if the players just straight up say "we're done with the season, we all want to focus on using our social position to try to effectuate change" - that would be a massive deal and would put the NBA in a very bad position where they'd either have to just accept it and the resultant financial loss, or litigate it and risk coming across as entitled rich assholes suing their players.
Even if it is just today's games, I think it's impactful. But not in a direct, cause and effect way. Of course, one day of postponed games won't itself bring about meaningful change. That's going to be a longer slog. But I think it will be a major addition to the cumulative effect of the culture declaring the status quo to no longer be acceptable. And that effect would be augmented even further if the other sports allowed suit.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Do we imagine part of the reason the Magic didn't immediately join the boycott is their owner is, what, brother of a cabinet secretary? Cousin?
 

OurF'ingCity

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Even if it is just today's games, I think it's impactful. But not in a direct, cause and effect way. Of course, one day of postponed games won't itself bring about meaningful change. That's going to be a longer slog. But I think it will be a major addition to the cumulative effect of the culture declaring the status quo to no longer be acceptable. And that effect would be augmented even further if the other sports allowed suit.
Yep, no disagreement there. Could be regarded historically similar to the Olympics medal ceremony black power salute - which is to say, no direct effect on anything but came to be regarded as a defining symbol for something much larger.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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This would be interesting, as I am sure the demographics of baseball players definitely leans conservative (at least in relation to the NBA).
unfortunately I have to say that the Trumpist cohort on the Red Sox roster is one of several reasons why I just don't follow as closely as I used to. I hate that it has come to that, but it has.
 

JCizzle

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Do we imagine part of the reason the Magic didn't immediately join the boycott is their owner is, what, brother of a cabinet secretary? Cousin?
I don’t think so, I imagine they just want to get home to families as a team about to get booted and the Bucks players didn’t give them a heads up
 

singaporesoxfan

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Yep, no disagreement there. Could be regarded historically similar to the Olympics medal ceremony black power salute - which is to say, no direct effect on anything but came to be regarded as a defining symbol for something much larger.
I like this comparison. The ability of sports to effect direct change is always limited, but sports have outsized symbolic value
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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I don’t think so, I imagine they just want to get home to families as a team about to get booted and the Bucks players didn’t give them a heads up
I think this conversation is going on among players around the league in real-time on texts and private social media. No way the Magic got sandbagged.
 

Soxy

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I like this comparison. The ability of sports to effect direct change is always limited, but sports have outsized symbolic value
I don't know if it's even merely symbolic. A professional sports league and its players have taken more of a lead in response to COVID-19 and police brutality than our own federal government. Just marinate on that for a minute.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think this conversation is going on among players around the league in real-time on texts and private social media. No way the Magic got sandbagged.
There was front-page reporting on ESPN a day ago about Celtics and Raptors discussion a boycott. I agree it is not likely Magic were unaware of the discussion.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Well they certainly are *whiter*, and I'm going to assume that matters.
FWIW the Bucks seem to be one of the whiter squads out there, top to bottom:

https://www.google.com/search?q=milwaukee+bucks&oq=milwaukee+bucks&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l4j69i60l2j69i61.2822j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=t;/m/0jmbv;3;/m/05jvx;pl;fp;1;;
Kyle Korver wrote a good piece in April 2019 where he came out strongly in support of BLM:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/kyle-korver-utah-jazz-nba
 

GoDa

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I'm not sure how you come up with that first take. This is their form of doing something, on a national spot like they basically refuse to do their job that's a protest that's a picket whatever you want to call it That's a step towards change. I'm sorry you don't see it that way, sorry you feel that they're just taking a night off. But I'd have to say that's off base.
Because I can think quickly and realize it doesn't seem particularly consequential (there appear to be none) or sacrificial (again, a night off). Jaylen is a very "involved" person. If he and Giannis left the bubble to go to Kinosha/DC/wherever and said they'll be back to basketball after they do some things. That's badass. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

This is taking a night off.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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I don't know if it's even merely symbolic. A professional sports league and its players have taken more of a lead in response to COVID-19 and police brutality than our own federal government. Just marinate on that for a minute.
These players and their families are more on the knife's edge of these threats than the people sitting in the stands.

I'd include some of the overseas players like the Eastern European and Turkish players in there.
 

gammoseditor

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They should demand to address the nation tomorrow from 9-11 with Lebron’s time slot overlapping another speech being given tomorrow night.
 

johnmd20

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Because I can think quickly and realize it doesn't seem particularly consequential (there appear to be none) or sacrificial (again, a night off). Jaylen is a very "involved" person. If he and Giannis left the bubble to go to Kinosha/DC/wherever and said they'll be back to basketball after they do some things. That's badass. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

This is taking a night off.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
This is garbage. I have considered it and found it to be faulty and ridiculous.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
I've considered it and it's terrible.

Also, telling people who are taking action how to be more impactful is a classic strawman. Or worse.
 

Jungleland

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Calling it a “night off” doesn’t feel like an attempt to respond in good faith. Will a one or two night delay of games make a big difference? Perhaps no, but that also doesn’t mean the players are frauds for taking this one step at a time right now. It’s only not putting their money where their mouth is in the most literal of senses.
 

djbayko

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Because I can think quickly and realize it doesn't seem particularly consequential (there appear to be none) or sacrificial (again, a night off). Jaylen is a very "involved" person. If he and Giannis left the bubble to go to Kinosha/DC/wherever and said they'll be back to basketball after they do some things. That's badass. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

This is taking a night off.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
This is a take.
 

GeorgeCostanza

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Because I can think quickly and realize it doesn't seem particularly consequential (there appear to be none) or sacrificial (again, a night off). Jaylen is a very "involved" person. If he and Giannis left the bubble to go to Kinosha/DC/wherever and said they'll be back to basketball after they do some things. That's badass. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

This is taking a night off.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
Considered and summarily rejected.
Why are you “ “-ing Jaylen Brown’s civil rights efforts?
 

BaseballJones

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FWIW the Bucks seem to be one of the whiter squads out there, top to bottom:
Yes but still much less white than typical baseball teams, and obviously the NBA as a whole is a lot less white. And obviously for Milwaukee, this is a "hometown" issue.
 

bankshot1

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I think between the Celts-Raptors boycott discussion and Doc Rivers emotional press-conference last night, IMO players probably started a broader boycott discussion last night.

IMO2-a 1or 2 day boycott may not be sufficient to make their point. as we've seen it will be called a "day-off".

I really think these guys should use the platform they have available to them to discuss, teach and dare I say engage the public at large with a discussion about social change and a political statement.

Protest-call your senator-congressman- Register to vote-VOTE.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Because I can think quickly and realize it doesn't seem particularly consequential (there appear to be none) or sacrificial (again, a night off). Jaylen is a very "involved" person. If he and Giannis left the bubble to go to Kinosha/DC/wherever and said they'll be back to basketball after they do some things. That's badass. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

This is taking a night off.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
You are perfectly entitled to your opinion assuming you are posting in good faith. That said, have you considered that, perhaps, Giannis Antetokounmpo and Jaylen Brown know better than you what actions and choices they need to take for the issues they consider important?

Is your issue that they aren't playing or that athletes really shouldn't be engaging in social protests? I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here but it feels like its not being reciprocated.
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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Colin Kapernick lost the prime years of his career, tens of millions of dollars, and has been made out as a villain and traitor for most of the country, for taking this stand.

This is not without risk for the players.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Do we think the players would even consult with the owner on something like this?
Definitely not. I think it is conceivable if they know the owner's poltiics and if they like theowner thatmight impact choices. Or it could not be a factor at all. I find it an odd choice by them so just trying to think about why.
 

AimingForYoko

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Because I can think quickly and realize it doesn't seem particularly consequential (there appear to be none) or sacrificial (again, a night off). Jaylen is a very "involved" person. If he and Giannis left the bubble to go to Kinosha/DC/wherever and said they'll be back to basketball after they do some things. That's badass. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

This is taking a night off.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
Those are certainly words.

The "" around Jaylen's involvement is a particularly nice touch.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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They should demand to address the nation tomorrow from 9-11 with Lebron’s time slot overlapping another speech being given tomorrow night.
Yeah, this is exactly what they need to do. They also need to pressure Warner and Disney to do better coverage of police brutality. No more "officer-involved shooting" but real reporting on what's actually happening. It needs to be a media thing more than anything.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Colin Kapernick lost the prime years of his career, tens of millions of dollars, and has been made out as a villain and traitor for most of the country, for taking this stand.

This is not without risk for the players.
Today is four years to the day since Kaep began his protest. Wild—his impact in retrospect is going to be so much larger than seemed possible in the moment.
 

BaseballJones

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Gee, Rosa Parks, only sat at the front of the bus. Couldn't she have done something more practical?
Actually, she sat in the first row of the "colored" section of the bus. A white man demanded that she (and a couple others) move anyway so he could have the seat. She didn't comply and was fined $10. For sitting in the "colored" section and not moving when a white person told her to.

What's kind of crazy is what MLK and others demanded: "Black passengers should be treated with courtesy. Seating should be allotted on a first-come-first-serve basis, with white passengers sitting from front to back and black passengers sitting from back to front." (from: https://www.ushistory.org/us/54b.asp)

They weren't even demanding equal treatment. Just to be treated with a modicum of respect. Which is incredible that they weren't receiving. I cannot imagine what a racist a-hole that guy was to demand that she get up out of her seat (in her section of the bus, no less) just because he wanted it. That goes against everything I was taught as to how to act as a gentleman.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I have to assume this is either the end of the bubble or something, and I don’t know what it is, is going to have to happen for the players to be comfortable with playing again. Otherwise I don’t see the point of sitting out just one game. If they’re going to protest by sitting out they should totally burst the bubble. Just sitting out one game and pushing out the schedule doesn’t seem like a strong message.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Also, does this extend past the bubble? If nothing fundamentally changes between now and December, do the players take the court on Opening Night?
 

OCST

Sunny von Bulow
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I have to assume this is either the end of the bubble or something, and I don’t know what it is, is going to have to happen for the players to be comfortable with playing again. Otherwise I don’t see the point of sitting out just one game. If they’re going to protest by sitting out they should totally burst the bubble. Just sitting out one game and pushing out the schedule doesn’t seem like a strong message.
Go ask the TV guys who sold ads for these games, and the advertisers who expect a captive audience, whether it's a big deal or not. I assure you they'll say it is.
 

ManicCompression

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I don't know your background but as someone who isn't part of the aggrieved class, I am choosing to let those people decide how they want to make statements. They don't need my help or anyone else's in terms of defining the problem or the response.
Off the bat:
- I support the players right to sit out tonight and be active in this way
- I support players uniformly over owners in nearly every single labor dispute and believe they should take home the lion's share of money.
- I don't agree with the poster you're responding to

But your response encapsulates what is so confusing to a lot of people. You're choosing to define class by one definition, and it's a popular definition right now rooted in a political bent. By any other measure, NBA players are not part of an aggrieved class. They are wealthy and have very large and influential platforms. In terms of power dynamics, they are a part of the powerful. Lebron James could very easily change Ohio politics if he chose to spend his money that way.

The idea that people can't voice an opinion about the way their city is policed because of their identity is pretty corrosive. And that's what we're talking about when we're talking about the NBA players trying to "change' things. If change means holding police accountable, I think a vast, vast majority of America agrees with them. If it means defunding police departments, that's a very different story and one that a majority of Americans, including those in aggrieved classes, do not agree with, particularly because there's not a lot of evidence behind it. So if I live in NY, LA, Chicago, Seattle, Atlanta, wherever, yeah, I should be thinking about the problem and the response to it and voicing that opinion even if I'm not in the aggrieved class because it impacts the safety of the people in my community. Insulting these players is not cool, as their intentions are obviously good, but we should have the flexibility as a civil society to allow people to disagree with parts of the end goal.

So I don't know what the answer is here and I don't think a lot of people do, including the players. I'm glad they're making people ask the question. But I just disagree that people who aren't in socially defined classes need to sit on the side of these conversations and nod along in agreement.
 

BaseballJones

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Go ask the TV guys who sold ads for these games, and the advertisers who expect a captive audience, whether it's a big deal or not. I assure you they'll say it is.
This isn't gonna change the attitude of the racists out there - they'll just be more emboldened like they were with Kap's protests. But it could change things if they go after the people with the money and the influence and the ability to make waves.
 

Pollard's Spartan Beard

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Because I can think quickly and realize it doesn't seem particularly consequential (there appear to be none) or sacrificial (again, a night off). Jaylen is a very "involved" person. If he and Giannis left the bubble to go to Kinosha/DC/wherever and said they'll be back to basketball after they do some things. That's badass. That's putting your money where your mouth is.

This is taking a night off.

I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion. I hope you'll consider it.
I considered your opinion, don't like it, and don't respect it. I suspect you're just trolling, but if you aren't, the fact that you're jumping to this conclusion as the situation continues to develop makes you look especially foolish. With Woj reporting that a bubble wide players-only meeting will take place tonight, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire postseason is in jeopardy. Pump the brakes on your dumb hot takes. Per Woj:

Emotions are raw, players were already worn out of bubble environment prior to the Jacob Blake shooting and sources say discussions within teams are ongoing about postponing tomorrow's three games too -- and beyond. "The season is in jeopardy," one vet player here tells ESPN.
And yeah, as AimingForYoko, said, I'm not totally sure what you're trying to suggest about Jaylen Brown, but kindly fuck right off. You can disagree with him politically if you choose to - and I would strongly disagree with you, but that's a separate issue - but to question Jaylen's history of working towards social justice efforts, especially since George Floyd's murder, is a real tough look for you.

(Edited to include Woj quote)
 

djbayko

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Definitely not. I think it is conceivable if they know the owner's poltiics and if they like theowner thatmight impact choices. Or it could not be a factor at all. I find it an odd choice by them so just trying to think about why.
I think it's very possible that the Bucks' plan was to make a statement by taking a forfeit, and only after the fact did the Magic decide that they didn't want to win that way. So maybe there is no odd choice - or any choice at all - by the Magic here.
 

singaporesoxfan

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View: https://twitter.com/alexanderlasry/status/1298722513304748032?s=21


Bucks SVP and Obama White House alum Alex Lasry: “Some things are bigger than basketball. The stand taken today by the players and org shows that we’re fed up. Enough is enough. Change needs to happen. I’m incredibly proud of our guys and we stand 100% behind our players ready to assist and bring about real change”