MLB sends memo to teams laying out new steps to curb intentional HBP’s

soxhop411

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View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1229944631732981760
MLB recently sent memo to teams laying out new steps to curb intentional hit-by-pitches. Umps will now confer to determine if they deem intent. Managers will be held more accountable for these incidents, too. Rule unrelated to Astros new concern, but they should welcome change.


“Unrelated” my ass.
Like that will stop players from throwing at them.

MLB is literally making the Astros a victim in all of this.
 
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BaseballJones

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View: https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/1229944631732981760



“Unrelated” my ass.
Like that will stop players from throwing at them.

MLB is literally making the Astros a victim in all of this.
You're exactly right. The very first thing I thought of was that they're such a bunch of hypocritical liars. "Unrelated"? Give me a break.

And you're also right about the Astros being victims. They're going to be protected like no other team in the league. Every time an Astro gets drilled, people will assume it's because of their cheating, and therefore it's intentional. But if the Astros drill someone, what possible reason would they have of doing that?

So Astro players get to cheat and win a championship and suffer no consequences from the league and then are protected if the other players who feel cheated by the Astros try to police themselves.
 

scottyno

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Honestly this should have happened years ago. "I'm going to intentionally throw a fastball at you that you have almost no chance to dodge and you better hope I don't hit you in the wrong spot" has always been stupid.

Of course the problem is how do you determine intent a lot of the time, but if you throw at a guy because he pimped a home run on you and you didn't like it then get off the field
 

cornwalls@6

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Yeah, this is a good rule. Particularly if curbs the idiotic “code” thing of drilling a hot hitter, or because someone celebrated a dinger with too much enthusiasm for the keepers of the game. Not every effing thing is about the Astros, and even it was, having a season full of frontier justice isn’t in anyone’s best interest.
 

tims4wins

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Yeah, this is a good rule. Particularly if curbs the idiotic “code” thing of drilling a hot hitter, or because someone celebrated a dinger with too much enthusiasm for the keepers of the game. Not every effing thing is about the Astros, and even it was, having a season full of frontier justice isn’t in anyone’s best interest.
It might be a good rule but maybe it should have been announced months ago
 

snowmanny

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I don't like rules that are built on "intent." I think any pitch that ends up within six inches of where the batter's head was positioned should be treated as an HBP. If you want to make a pitch >90mph that hits a batter a trip to second base instead of first that's fine as well.
 

Harry Hooper

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Time for the catcher to accidentally hit the batter with the throw back to the pitcher.
 
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jtn46

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Yeah, this is a good rule. Particularly if curbs the idiotic “code” thing of drilling a hot hitter, or because someone celebrated a dinger with too much enthusiasm for the keepers of the game. Not every effing thing is about the Astros, and even it was, having a season full of frontier justice isn’t in anyone’s best interest.
Yes the way it was done before was really stupid because it gave the first team to throw at a hitter a pass and if both benches were warned gave the team that was thrown at no chance to retaliate.

Also the "can't throw inside" statement is not true because the umps determine intent.
 

BaseballJones

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Well the Astros should have the other teams’ signs figured out so they can just show the umps how they know the HBP was intentional.
 
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Honestly this should have happened years ago. "I'm going to intentionally throw a fastball at you that you have almost no chance to dodge and you better hope I don't hit you in the wrong spot" has always been stupid.
How many years was it before there was any clamp-down on throwing up and in to batters? While some clubs experimented with plastic inserts, the actual requirement for wearing helmets didn't take place until 1956 (AL), 1958 (NL). As time went on, the armor started but there were a bunch of players with .400+ averages or high HR totals who got dusted off quite frequently. Don Drysdale was a good example. Orlando Cepeda said, "The trick about Drysdale is to hit him before he hits you." And Drysdale said, "My own little rule was two-for-one--if one of my teammates got knocked down, then I knocked down two on the other team." Early Wynn said, I'd knock down my grandmother is she dug in on me." Ted Williams once said he was the toughest pitcher he ever faced.

Today, players crowd the plate and mostly don't make much effort to get out of the way of pitches. They get out of the way of pitches near their head and generally try to avoid getting hit on fragile parts of the body but otherwise will just turn and let the pitch hit a "padded" area even though the rule says they are required to make an effort to avoid being hit. Personally, I prefer the old style baseball.
 

grimshaw

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If by "making managers more accountable" means the possibility of them being suspended for the idiotic actions of their players, I can certainly see that as progress. I'm sure occurrences would still happen, but it would make the pitcher think twice.

Accountability has to start coming from the top more.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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MLB is literally making the Astros a victim in all of this.
The MLB should absolutely be preemptively protecting the Astros from getting beaned, as they should be taking measures to protect any player from getting beaned. Unless you're one of the Twitter muppets who's declared to the world that you're going to put one in Alex Bregman's back you can feel free to pitch inside and maybe even let one come a little too far inside. Unless the MLB's stance is going to be a zero tolerance policy toward any Astro getting hit, which has happened every single season since that franchise came into existence, an umpire still has to make the judgement that it was purposeful. It will have to be incredibly blatant like Correa taking one in the thigh on the first pitch of the season or you're one of the aforementioned internet tough guys in order to get suspended. I'd put the over/under on a pitcher getting suspended for targeting the Astros at 1 and happily bet the under.

Either way bean ball wars suck and should go away.
 

edoug

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The MLB should absolutely be preemptively protecting the Astros from getting beaned, as they should be taking measures to protect any player from getting beaned. Unless you're one of the Twitter muppets who's declared to the world that you're going to put one in Alex Bregman's back you can feel free to pitch inside and maybe even let one come a little too far inside. Unless the MLB's stance is going to be a zero tolerance policy toward any Astro getting hit, which has happened every single season since that franchise came into existence, an umpire still has to make the judgement that it was purposeful. It will have to be incredibly blatant like Correa taking one in the thigh on the first pitch of the season or you're one of the aforementioned internet tough guys in order to get suspended. I'd put the over/under on a pitcher getting suspended for targeting the Astros at 1 and happily bet the under.

Either way bean ball wars suck and should go away.
Great post, public shunning is very appropriate.
 

joe dokes

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In exchange for the "hit an Astro you're ejected" rule, maybe the Astros shouldn't be allowed to wear protective gear (except a helmet and cup) while batting.
 

opes

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So you're telling me Manfred is giving the Astro's another pass? Whats next, give them automatically 2 free runs before the game starts? Or maybe pull all the defensive players, and just make it a pitcher/hitter duel. If you get a hit, you win the game!
 

Comfortably Lomb

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This should have happened years ago and the punishments if intent is determined should greatly surpass PED punishments. The potential harm throwing 95 mph rocks at people is way more severe than someone taking a designer cocktail.
 

Fred not Lynn

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This should have happened years ago and the punishments if intent is determined should greatly surpass PED punishments. The potential harm throwing 95 mph rocks at people is way more severe than someone taking a designer cocktail.
Tell that to Steve Belcher and Ken Caminiti's families...

Doping is every bit as harmful, it just plays out away from the spotlight and over a longer period of time.
 

Marciano490

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Tell that to Steve Belcher and Ken Caminiti's families...

Doping is every bit as harmful, it just plays out away from the spotlight and over a longer period of time.
Anything is harmful if overdone, even water or sun. Stallone and Arnold are still kicking in their mid-70’s and I’m guessing still gassed, too.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Anything is harmful if overdone, even water or sun.
Well, these ARE elite athletes. It’s not like they’re going to take any chances and overdo something potentially harmful to their health just to get a leg up on the competition...
Stallone and Arnold are still kicking in their mid-70’s and I’m guessing still gassed, too.
And not every beanball recipient is a Ray Chapman.
 

Marciano490

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Well, these ARE elite athletes. It’s not like they’re going to take any chances and overdo something potentially harmful to their health just to get a leg up on the competition...
And not every beanball recipient is a Ray Chapman.
My understanding is there are diminishing returns for higher doses and longer uses. Which means that a lot of times people who mess themselves up by taking too much for too long weren’t even really benefiting from it.
 

mauf

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Tell that to Steve Belcher and Ken Caminiti's families...

Doping is every bit as harmful, it just plays out away from the spotlight and over a longer period of time.
Belcher was (iirc) taking over-the-counter supplements that were legitimately dangerous, and have since been banned. Caminiti died from ingesting a combination of cocaine and heroin. I wouldn’t describe either of those as “doping,” and it’s apples-to-oranges to compare either to abuse of anabolic steroids.

Edit: Not expressing an opinion one way or the other on the scientific evidence that steroid use is harmful. I’m sympathetic to the argument that there should be an exemption for short-term use while recovering from injury — particularly in professional football, where the risks inherent in the sport are so great that it’s hard to imagine that a cycle or two of steroids moves the needle.
 

Fred not Lynn

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My understanding is there are diminishing returns for higher doses and longer uses. Which means that a lot of times people who mess themselves up by taking too much for too long weren’t even really benefiting from it.
Well, you know how an athlete’s brain works; If you’re supposed to take one, I know my competitor is taking two, so I better have three...
 

Fred not Lynn

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Belcher was (iirc) taking over-the-counter supplements that were legitimately dangerous, and have since been banned.
Ephedrine and Pseudoephedrine had been banned in pretty much every sport for some time. Had they been banned in baseball, perhaps Steve Belcher would still be alive.

Caminiti died from ingesting a combination of cocaine and heroin. I wouldn’t describe either of those as “doping,” and it’s apples-to-oranges to compare either to abuse of anabolic steroids.
Caminiti’s use of drugs of abuse may well have been exacerbated by damage done by previous doping. No way to know for sure.

Edit: Not expressing an opinion one way or the other on the scientific evidence that steroid use is harmful. I’m sympathetic to the argument that there should be an exemption for short-term use while recovering from injury — particularly in professional football, where the risks inherent in the sport are so great that it’s hard to imagine that a cycle or two of steroids moves the needle.
Agreed in theory, but good luck enforcing that. The TUE (Therapeutic Use Exemption) abuse would be epic.
 

djbayko

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Well, you know how an athlete’s brain works; If you’re supposed to take one, I know my competitor is taking two, so I better have three...
True, but I don't think athletes are being left to their own devices anymore. There's too much money involved. They have doctors / pseudo-doctors (a.k.a. "trainers") who have experience dosing people and analyzing blood, stool, etc. to monitor their progress. BALCO wasn't a one off. Maybe some players aren't hooked up with such individuals, and yeah, an unregulated environment is certainly less than ideal. But I'd bet it's a lot safer today for players smart enough not to buy their gear in Tijuana and go it alone.
 

Marciano490

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Well, you know how an athlete’s brain works; If you’re supposed to take one, I know my competitor is taking two, so I better have three...
Fair. But my larger point is, by the time these dudes are in the majors, they should be getting blood work overseen by doctors and not doing bro stacks with 3 cc’s over 20 weeks.

I’d get it if it were dudes in high school or the minors croaking, but by the time you’re in the bigs, if you’re OD’ing on juice, it’s your fault, not the drugs.
 

Fred not Lynn

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Fair. But my larger point is, by the time these dudes are in the majors, they should be getting blood work overseen by doctors and not doing bro stacks with 3 cc’s over 20 weeks.

I’d get it if it were dudes in high school or the minors croaking, but by the time you’re in the bigs, if you’re OD’ing on juice, it’s your fault, not the drugs.
Sure, but for every guy in the majors with the resources to do it right there’s a thousand kids on a shoestring who’ll do anything to get there. Protecting their health is important, too.

The question isn’t whether Performance enhancing drugs CAN be used safely, it’s whether they WOULD be...