Mookie redux

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I’m curious. Living out here in the Berkshires, I don’t get the daily dose of the Boston media.
If the Red Sox don’t make the playoffs, where are the usual media suspects going to assign the blame?
Cora/Bloom/Ownership/Players?
The media barely cares about the Red Sox. Shaughnessy is the only general columnist that pays them any attention.

It’s nothing but the New England Patriots all day, every day. And if the Sox do choke this week, it couldn’t have come at a better time with Tom Brady returning to Foxboro.

The Sox are fighting for second with the Celts and Bruins. It’s kinda what happens when you trade your generational player and build for the future.
 

scottyno

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The media barely cares about the Red Sox. Shaughnessy is the only general columnist that pays them any attention.

It’s nothing but the New England Patriots all day, every day. And if the Sox do choke this week, it couldn’t have come at a better time with Tom Brady returning to Foxboro.

The Sox are fighting for second with the Celts and Bruins. It’s kinda what happens when you trade your generational player and build for the future.
Or what happens when one is a football team and one is a baseball team, especially a football team that was the greatest dynasty in NFL history for about 20 years. You think if they'd kept Betts and still won 25 games last year people would have cared more?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Or what happens when one is a football team and one is a baseball team, especially a football team that was the greatest dynasty in NFL history for about 20 years. You think if they'd kept Betts and still won 25 games last year people would have cared more?
Yes.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Or what happens when one is a football team and one is a baseball team, especially a football team that was the greatest dynasty in NFL history for about 20 years. You think if they'd kept Betts and still won 25 games last year people would have cared more?
Absolutely.

I can't count the number of people I know who have completely stopped following the Red Sox after the Betts trade. Dozens and dozens of my friends have cut off the team. It was so obviously a cynical explanation and money-driven move that many fans were physically repulsed. I have never seen anything like it in all my years of following the team, the overwhelming emotion surrounding them was/is total disgust.

This didn't happen when Clemens left. Or Nomar. Or Pedro. Or Manny. Only Mookie.

I don't think the front office has any idea about the depth of residual anger that still lingers around that deal. And I don't think ownership really cares, they're focusing on their multi-use development on Van Ness Street.

The only way to overcome something like that is to win and win and win and win some more, and to make sure your team is filled with smart, talented, likable players who aren't terrible human beings. That's hard enough to assemble without the spectre of the now-departed homegrown superstar lingering over the organization, but the Red Sox are now trying to do things the hard way.

Winning the division this year, after the cluster that was last year, would have gone a fair ways into healing some of those emotional wounds, but they bottled it. Now they're life and death to even make the playoffs. This is a pretty critical time for the club, and I'm not sure anyone involved realizes how quickly the fanbase will fall if they fail to get into the postseason this year.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Absolutely.

I can't count the number of people I know who have completely stopped following the Red Sox after the Betts trade. Dozens and dozens of my friends have cut off the team. It was so obviously a cynical explanation and money-driven move that many fans were physically repulsed. I have never seen anything like it in all my years of following the team, the overwhelming emotion surrounding them was/is total disgust.

This didn't happen when Clemens left. Or Nomar. Or Pedro. Or Manny. Only Mookie.

I don't think the front office has any idea about the depth of residual anger that still lingers around that deal. And I don't think ownership really cares, they're focusing on their multi-use development on Van Ness Street.

The only way to overcome something like that is to win and win and win and win some more, and to make sure your team is filled with smart, talented, likable players who aren't terrible human beings. That's hard enough to assemble without the spectre of the now-departed homegrown superstar lingering over the organization, but the Red Sox are now trying to do things the hard way.

Winning the division this year, after the cluster that was last year, would have gone a fair ways into healing some of those emotional wounds, but they bottled it. Now they're life and death to even make the playoffs. This is a pretty critical time for the club, and I'm not sure anyone involved realizes how quickly the fanbase will fall if they fail to get into the postseason this year.
Also the Pats were 7-9 last year (third in the AFC East) and looks like they're settling in for a similar season. So as sad is it is to say, that dynasty is over. The Sox had a real good opportunity to grab the sports conscious of New England back and they more than kinda blew it for the reasons SJH mentioned above.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Also the Pats were 7-9 last year (third in the AFC East) and looks like they're settling in for a similar season. So as sad is it is to say, that dynasty is over. The Sox had a real good opportunity to grab the sports conscious of New England back and they more than kinda blew it for the reasons SJH mentioned above.
Check out the New England Revolution if you want to watch an exciting and dare-i-say dominant team?

They have a chance to catch the attention of a ton more people this fall.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I highly doubt the region would be riveted watching this current Sox team with Betts and Price but without Verdugo, Hernandez, and whomever else they wouldn’t have signed because of the payroll needed for those two. I mean, the last Sox version that had Mookie wasn’t as good as this team.

Interest has waned in the Sox but it’s hardly unique to the Sox or really has much to do with Betts being traded (which had to be done). People certainly don’t seem as in to sports as they used to be but the country has had its fair share of distractions the last few years that has made our leisure pursuits a bit less enjoyable.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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I highly doubt the region would be riveted watching this current Sox team with Betts and Price but without Verdugo, Hernandez, and whomever else they wouldn’t have signed because of the payroll needed for those two. I mean, the last Sox version that had Mookie wasn’t as good as this team.

Interest has waned in the Sox but it’s hardly unique to the Sox or really has much to do with Betts being traded (which had to be done). People certainly don’t seem as in to sports as they used to be but the country has had its fair share of distractions the last few years that has made our leisure pursuits a bit less enjoyable.
You might be right. But here's a good comparison, after 1967 until 1975, the Red Sox weren't great. They were always pretty-good to really good, but they were never great. From what I understand (I wasn't born yet) tehthing that kept the Sox in the Boston sports zeitgeist was Carl Yastrzemski. I don't have to tell you this, but even though the Sox weren't winning pennants, he was still performing at an excellent level. He was the reason why people tuned into the Sox. He WAS the Sox for all those years. You could say the same thing for Nomar and Pedro prior to 2003.

I don't think that we need to pick this scab again, but trading Mookie in 2020 would be like trading Yaz in 1969. Mookie had established a connection with this region that hadn't been seen in some time and Boston fans especially love that stuff. It's why you see Pats fans rooting for the Bucs. Trading him away took away a ton of star power and a lot of what made the Sox so watchable from 2016-2019. Yeah, Verdugo is fine and Wong and Downs may be decent players; but Mookie had something else. He gave people a reason to watch.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Obviously Mookie was great but were people really really into him when he was on the team? I think, sadly, the days of the entire area being into the Sox and Pedro, Nomar, Manny, Yaz, whomever is gone, at least for a while. I don’t really know what it is- part of it may just be that the Sox became like every other team (wasn’t that all we ever wanted?) and those days of living and dying with the team are all but over except for a very small percentage of fans (many of whom are in this thread). That generation of folks who lived and died with the Sox who hadn’t won are rapidly aging, younger people aren’t as interested since sports, and certainly not baseball.

I live in NYC and wore a Bogaerts shirt around the other day and not one person came up to me and told me the Sox sucked. 15 years ago, that wouldn’t have happened.

We were fortunate to experience the golden era of sox fandom and the Sox - Yankees rivalry and hopefully it comes back strong again someday, but to me, it’s just not quite the same anymore.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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You might be right. But here's a good comparison, after 1967 until 1975, the Red Sox weren't great. They were always pretty-good to really good, but they were never great. From what I understand (I wasn't born yet) tehthing that kept the Sox in the Boston sports zeitgeist was Carl Yastrzemski. I don't have to tell you this, but even though the Sox weren't winning pennants, he was still performing at an excellent level. He was the reason why people tuned into the Sox. He WAS the Sox for all those years. You could say the same thing for Nomar and Pedro prior to 2003.

I don't think that we need to pick this scab again, but trading Mookie in 2020 would be like trading Yaz in 1969. Mookie had established a connection with this region that hadn't been seen in some time and Boston fans especially love that stuff. It's why you see Pats fans rooting for the Bucs. Trading him away took away a ton of star power and a lot of what made the Sox so watchable from 2016-2019. Yeah, Verdugo is fine and Wong and Downs may be decent players; but Mookie had something else. He gave people a reason to watch.
Except Yaz wasn't a pending free agent likely to leave for the highest bidder in 1970. I get the sentiment you're going for with this analogy, but the financial landscape of the game was entirely different in 1969 compared to 2020. To the point where your comparison doesn't hold a lot of water. Times have changed and we can't view 2021 athletes through the lens of how they were treated and/or behaved 50+ years ago.
 

BroodsSexton

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You might be right. But here's a good comparison, after 1967 until 1975, the Red Sox weren't great. They were always pretty-good to really good, but they were never great. From what I understand (I wasn't born yet) tehthing that kept the Sox in the Boston sports zeitgeist was Carl Yastrzemski. I don't have to tell you this, but even though the Sox weren't winning pennants, he was still performing at an excellent level. He was the reason why people tuned into the Sox. He WAS the Sox for all those years. You could say the same thing for Nomar and Pedro prior to 2003.

I don't think that we need to pick this scab again, but trading Mookie in 2020 would be like trading Yaz in 1969. Mookie had established a connection with this region that hadn't been seen in some time and Boston fans especially love that stuff. It's why you see Pats fans rooting for the Bucs. Trading him away took away a ton of star power and a lot of what made the Sox so watchable from 2016-2019. Yeah, Verdugo is fine and Wong and Downs may be decent players; but Mookie had something else. He gave people a reason to watch.
Mookie wouldn't be here this year anyways. Wasn't his contract up after 2020?
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Except Yaz wasn't a pending free agent likely to leave for the highest bidder in 1970. I get the sentiment you're going for with this analogy, but the financial landscape of the game was entirely different in 1969 compared to 2020. To the point where your comparison doesn't hold a lot of water. Times have changed and we can't view 2021 athletes through the lens of how they were treated and/or behaved 50+ years ago.
Disagree. Yaz may not have been a free agent, but he wanted to get paid. If the Sox didn't want to or couldn't afford to pay him, they'd trade him. Baseball is littered with players who were dealt because their clubs felt that they couldn't afford their stars. The Philadelphia A's did it twice, the Red Sox have done it.

And honestly, what Mookie could bring to the team in terms of star-power and eye balls far outweighs what he got in his new contract. Look, the Sox are in a neck-and-neck race for a wildcard birth with three other teams. No one really cares. I think that the more stars you have, the more people want to watch. The Red Sox are one of the few teams that can't play "Little Engine that Could", it comes off as disingenuous.
 

Spud

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We were fortunate to experience the golden era of sox fandom and the Sox - Yankees rivalry and hopefully it comes back strong again someday, but to me, it’s just not quite the same anymore.

I agree. The rivalry, at least in the hinterlands, has not been the same since 2004. I've worked in the same office in Hartford since 1993 and had a lively but friendly adversarial relationship with co-workers who were Yankee fans. The standard retort to any Sox support used to be "1918" which, thank goodness, is no longer applicable. I can't really describe the dynamic or why it changed, but it has. Perhaps it will return, but I don't think it will ever quite be the same.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Disagree. Yaz may not have been a free agent, but he wanted to get paid. If the Sox didn't want to or couldn't afford to pay him, they'd trade him. Baseball is littered with players who were dealt because their clubs felt that they couldn't afford their stars. The Philadelphia A's did it twice, the Red Sox have done it.

And honestly, what Mookie could bring to the team in terms of star-power and eye balls far outweighs what he got in his new contract. Look, the Sox are in a neck-and-neck race for a wildcard birth with three other teams. No one really cares. I think that the more stars you have, the more people want to watch. The Red Sox are one of the few teams that can't play "Little Engine that Could", it comes off as disingenuous.
Except Yaz's only leverage would have been to hold out, which means the Sox don't pay him and no one else does either. So I still don't think the situations are comparable.
 

tims4wins

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Agree with others who have posted that not only does the rivalr not matter as much, sports don’t matter as much. I don’t think putting Mookie on this team increases interest / viewership by a material amount. I don’t know of anyone who “loved” the Sox solely because of Mookie. It’s nothing close to the degree of TB12 and the Pats. The general public probably loved Papi like 10x more than Mookie.
 

ColdSoxPack

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I’m curious. Living out here in the Berkshires, I don’t get the daily dose of the Boston media.
If the Red Sox don’t make the playoffs, where are the usual media suspects going to assign the blame?
Cora/Bloom/Ownership/Players?
Shank already has Chaim in his crosshairs. I'm sure the column is already written.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Agree with others who have posted that not only does the rivalr not matter as much, sports don’t matter as much. I don’t think putting Mookie on this team increases interest / viewership by a material amount. I don’t know of anyone who “loved” the Sox solely because of Mookie. It’s nothing close to the degree of TB12 and the Pats. The general public probably loved Papi like 10x more than Mookie.
Mookie was clearly the best all-around athlete the general Boston area teams have seen in decades but never had a stretch where it seemed he was carrying the team to a victory all upon his own shoulders. Without even going into Brady's Super Bowl heroics... Ortiz's playoff heroics... both of them are seen as the main figure in bringing the first championships to Boston (for ever for the Pats... and almost forever for the Sox). I don't think ANY sports figure will be able to capture that again unless the championship victories go dormant for a looong time.
 

tims4wins

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Mookie was clearly the best all-around athlete the general Boston area teams have seen in decades but never had a stretch where it seemed he was carrying the team to a victory all upon his own shoulders. Without even going into Brady's Super Bowl heroics... Ortiz's playoff heroics... both of them are seen as the main figure in bringing the first championships to Boston (for ever for the Pats... and almost forever for the Sox). I don't think ANY sports figure will be able to capture that again unless the championship victories go dormant for a looong time.
Forget about the heroics. He wasn’t seen as THE FACE of the organization the same way as Papi, Brady, etc.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Forget about the heroics. He wasn’t seen as THE FACE of the organization the same way as Papi, Brady, etc.
Not sure I agree here. He really had a great personality on the field. Who do you think was during Mookie's time if not him? Papi was still here for the first 3 seasons but it was clearly handed off to him. He was a superstar. But just not to their level, nor could he ever become that.
 

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FWIW, NESN's ratings have been up this year overall. By 74% over 2020 but also by 15% over 2019.

So at least by one measure, interest in the team has not been diminished by one star player's absence. That measure suggests it's simply the overall product on the field that drives interest and eyeballs.
This somehow misses the dozens and dozens who have rejected the Sox due to Mookie!

One player doesn’t drive loyalty in baseball to the vast majority. And I agree that Papi was way more universally loved than Mookie.

Quite a derailment of the already foolish thread though.
 

tims4wins

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Not sure I agree here. He really had a great personality on the field. Who do you think was during Mookie's time if not him? Papi was still here for the first 3 seasons but it was clearly handed off to him. He was a superstar. But just not to their level, nor could he ever become that.
Yes he was a star, yes he was the most prominent player, but there is another level of popularity / superstardom in Boston that Mookie never achieved. He never got to that Papi, Brady, Bird type level where he was universally adored by the fandom. I liked him well enough and enjoyed his tenure and production, but I never felt that same type of emotional attachment. I may be in the minority on this one but I am guessing there are a lot of Sox fans out there with a similar viewpoint.
 

RIFan

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I don't think that we need to pick this scab again, but trading Mookie in 2020 would be like trading Yaz in 1969. Mookie had established a connection with this region that hadn't been seen in some time and Boston fans especially love that stuff. It's why you see Pats fans rooting for the Bucs. Trading him away took away a ton of star power and a lot of what made the Sox so watchable from 2016-2019. Yeah, Verdugo is fine and Wong and Downs may be decent players; but Mookie had something else. He gave people a reason to watch.
Trading Mookie in 2020 was much more analogous to trading Fred Lynn in January 1981. Yaz was a god, but Lynn was the player almost every kid in little league wanted to be. He made the spectacular plays and looked like he was having fun doing it. The team from 75 - 80 had firepower so you can't say Lynn was the reason attendance and interest in the team popped (even more so than the post Impossible Dream years) but there was something undeniable about Lynn as a magnetic attraction for that team. I think the 10-12 year olds whose fandom came of age in 2018 and saw their idol traded will feel the same way 30 years from now as many of us do about the Lynn trade. @Chad Finn should probably write the book on it. The only thing muted the ire for trading Lynn was that they screwed up Fisk's contract offer and 3 weeks later Fisk was a free agent ultimately signing with the White Sox. Attendance peaked at 2.35 million in '79 and dropped to just under 2 million in 1980, but cratered to 1.060M after trading Lynn, Burleson, Hobson and losing Fisk.
 

brandonchristensen

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Why are we all worried about Mookie? He's a 260 hitter now.

In all seriousness, the doom and gloom of the franchise is so overstated. Yeah it sucks they traded him, but they were in a bad financial position where retaining him would have hurt them in the long run unless they could have gotten their budget down. I'm a big Verdugo fan and think he has filled in admirable (except when he's forced to be in CF)...but the Sox wouldn't be doing any better if you flipped Mookie and Verdugo right now.

I don't think this current team is Chaim's final draft.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Quite a derailment of the already foolish thread though.
I hope the person who has the gun to your head that's making you read this thread gets tired soon. Thoughts and prayers to you during this most stressful time.

Trading Mookie in 2020 was much more analogous to trading Fred Lynn in January 1981. Yaz was a god, but Lynn was the player almost every kid in little league wanted to be. He made the spectacular plays and looked like he was having fun doing it. The team from 75 - 80 had firepower so you can't say Lynn was the reason attendance and interest in the team popped (even more so than the post Impossible Dream years) but there was something undeniable about Lynn as a magnetic attraction for that team. I think the 10-12 year olds whose fandom came of age in 2018 and saw their idol traded will feel the same way 30 years from now as many of us do about the Lynn trade. @Chad Finn should probably write the book on it. The only thing muted the ire for trading Lynn was that they screwed up Fisk's contract offer and 3 weeks later Fisk was a free agent ultimately signing with the White Sox. Attendance peaked at 2.35 million in '79 and dropped to just under 2 million in 1980, but cratered to 1.060M after trading Lynn, Burleson, Hobson and losing Fisk.
You're right, Fred Lynn might be a better analogy.
 

brandonchristensen

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Do you have an evil twin who posts in game threads?
Yes. I call him GAMBLOR!

(Doom and gloom about the franchise as a whole, and the direction it's heading, isn't the same as doom and gloom about our current manager and where this season is heading)
 

joe dokes

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This somehow misses the dozens and dozens who have rejected the Sox due to Mookie!

One player doesn’t drive loyalty in baseball to the vast majority. And I agree that Papi was way more universally loved than Mookie.
One player doesn;t drive local loyalty. But if Ohtani's pitching, I might stay up late to watch an Angels game on MLBN that I otherwise wouldn't give a shit about.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Yes he was a star, yes he was the most prominent player, but there is another level of popularity / superstardom in Boston that Mookie never achieved. He never got to that Papi, Brady, Bird type level where he was universally adored by the fandom. I liked him well enough and enjoyed his tenure and production, but I never felt that same type of emotional attachment. I may be in the minority on this one but I am guessing there are a lot of Sox fans out there with a similar viewpoint.
He wasn't here long enough to be allowed to become a sports God because unlike those other players the ownership decided they didn't want to pay him to stick around.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Why are we all worried about Mookie? He's a 260 hitter now.

In all seriousness, the doom and gloom of the franchise is so overstated. Yeah it sucks they traded him, but they were in a bad financial position where retaining him would have hurt them in the long run unless they could have gotten their budget down. I'm a big Verdugo fan and think he has filled in admirable (except when he's forced to be in CF)...but the Sox wouldn't be doing any better if you flipped Mookie and Verdugo right now.

I don't think this current team is Chaim's final draft.
Mookie has a 4.5 WAR this year. Verdugo has 2.4 WAR. Of course the team would be doing better if they flipped the two players.

Also, and I know you're kidding, Mookie has a 132 OPS+ with that .260 BA. Verdugo is hitting .290 but only has a 108 OPS+. The production of the two players isn't remotely comparable.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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FWIW, NESN's ratings have been up this year overall. By 74% over 2020 but also by 15% over 2019.

So at least by one measure, interest in the team has not been diminished by one star player's absence. That measure suggests it's simply the overall product on the field that drives interest and eyeballs.
Did you miss the tidbit in the article that noted that cable subscriptions have nosedived? A higher percentage of a much lower number means fewer eyeballs on the team.

Fewer people overall are watching the Red Sox play. Interest is down because they had two shitty years in a row and their best player is gone.

I would love to see how those ratings break down by month. My guess is that they have nosedived in the second half due to the team's 3 month swoon out of the division lead.

Again, I don't think ownership gives a damn about any of this, to be honest. We haven't heard a thing from Henry and Werner in a long while, and they appear to be pursuing the Atlanta Braves' idea of building up a commercial empire around the baseball team's stadium so that actual baseball results won't effect their bottom line.
 
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Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Mookie's WAR seems to always be inflated by his defense. For 30+M less I'm fine with Verdugo.
That is not the case this year: Mookie has a 3.8 offensive WAR and 0.4 defensive WAR. (Given the way B-ref calculates WAR I'm unsure where the missing 0.3 WAR comes from, but the 4.5 is def their overall number for him). This is a change from some of his previous years.

Also, defensive WAR is something this year's Red Sox team could badly use, doncha think?
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Okay. So you don't take him at his word. I do. Do we both win? Or Lose? I forget how this turns out.
Just means that to me that I think they just about always say that and it doesn't necessarily mean it's true. I think Mookie is a very smart man who says the right thing just about all the time because you never know what's down the line.

And that Brady knows exactly what's down the line and knows he is at a place in life where he can say exactly what he really means.
 

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Not that this has anything to do with Alex Cora, but the way I look at it is:

- Verdugo (2.4) replaced Benintendi (2.3)
- Renfroe (2.5) replaced Betts (4.5)
- Hernandez (4.4) replaced Bradley (-0.4)

That's a Red Sox outfield @ 9.3 versus a Former Red Sox Outfield @ 6.4, which is somewhat unfair since Bradley's situation is kind of non-comparable.

Another way to look at it has Renfroe + Hernandez cancelling out Betts + Benintendi in 2021
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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That is not the case this year: Mookie has a 3.8 offensive WAR and 0.4 defensive WAR. (Given the way B-ref calculates WAR I'm unsure where the missing 0.3 WAR comes from, but the 4.5 is def their overall number for him). This is a change from some of his previous years.

Also, defensive WAR is something this year's Red Sox team could badly use, doncha think?
Mookie has a lower OPS than JD, whom everyone seems to hate, and he’s missed like 30 games. If he were doing that for the Sox for $32M, I’m sure there’d be a lot of complaints.

Regardless, of course he’s a better player than Verdugo. But the presence of Betts and the half of Price that the Dodgers are paying would add +$50M to this years payroll alone. So if those two were here, who wouldn’t be? I doubt the team would be any better than they are now.

Mookie is gone, time to get over it. It has nothing to do with this years team.
 

joe dokes

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Regardless, of course he’s a better player than Verdugo. But the presence of Betts and the half of Price that the Dodgers are paying would add +$50M to this years payroll alone. So if those two were here, who wouldn’t be? I doubt the team would be any better than they are now.
This is true. My sense is that SJH's point would be that 50M is couch cushion money to Henry, and if he gave a shit, he'd spend it on great baseball players.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Mookie has a lower OPS than JD, whom everyone seems to hate, and he’s missed like 30 games. If he were doing that for the Sox for $32M, I’m sure there’d be a lot of complaints.

Regardless, of course he’s a better player than Verdugo. But the presence of Betts and the half of Price that the Dodgers are paying would add +$50M to this years payroll alone. So if those two were here, who wouldn’t be? I doubt the team would be any better than they are now.

Mookie is gone, time to get over it. It has nothing to do with this years team.
Mookie has a higher OPS+ than JD (132 vs 127) despite the lower OPS because he's doing it in a much harder stadium for hitters. It's logical to think that if he were playing half his games in Fenway like JD his OPS would be higher. And of course Mookie plays stellar defense while JD does a mean impersonation of a hat stand in the rare moments he's allowed to play in the field.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

All Hail King Boron
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May 20, 2003
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This is true. My sense is that SJH's point would be that 50M is couch cushion money to Henry, and if he gave a shit, he'd spend it on great baseball players.
And honestly I don't know what JWH gives a shit about now. He used to appear to care that the team won and won a lot, and spent a lot to do so. With Liverpool and Roush Fenway Racing and the development around Fenway going on, I honestly don't know where his primary focus is these days. Getting some insight from him would be quite the get from our intrepid sports media.
 

E5 Yaz

Transcends message boarding
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Regardless, of course he’s a better player than Verdugo. But the presence of Betts and the half of Price that the Dodgers are paying would add +$50M to this years payroll alone. So if those two were here, who wouldn’t be? I doubt the team would be any better than they are now.
This is always the point that is glossed over by this who can't let go of Mookie. People think the bottom third of the roster is a patchwork quilt now; imagine it with $50M less to spend
 

shoelace

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Jun 24, 2019
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Okay. So you don't take him at his word. I do. Do we both win? Or Lose? I forget how this turns out.
Wasn't he saying "I would have been happy to stay in Boston if they had given me 12 years, $420,000,000"? I don't think his sentiment about staying in Boston is particularly meaningful when it's tied directly to that contract demand. Mookie also said that he wanted to max out his earnings. There's no reason to think that he wouldn't have left for a better offer even if he hadn't been traded. As he said, “I don’t care if you’re working at Waffle House or for the Red Sox or for the Dodgers,” he told Schube. “You should just get paid what you’re worth.” I realize that this is an intractable issue for certain posters, but I don't understand why we should weight his "I want to stay in Boston" statements more heavily than his (completely correct and rational) desire to earn as much money as he possibly could.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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He wasn't here long enough to be allowed to become a sports God because unlike those other players the ownership decided they didn't want to pay him to stick around.
He played 6 1/3 seasons, roughly. I'd say that Brady and Papi were both gods in New England after 6 seasons (2000-2005 for Brady; 2003-2008 for Papi).