Mookie redux

[Rovin Romine]

Hypothetical certainly but if we assume that the Dodgers gave us less because we demanded that the Price contract be stapled to the deal, but I would love to know what kind of deal the RS could have extracted had the Dodgers said no to the Price inclusion.

Verdugo's given us 7.3 bWAR in the OF since 2020 and has one year of control left.
Wong is 1.1 bWAR in limited catching time - 6 years of control left.

Dodgers top 30 in 2020: https://www.mlb.com/prospects/2020/dodgers/

Lux wouldn't have been a great fit, given his primary value is at SS. And then there's the injuries, which is perhaps why he never tapped into the offensive potential suggested by his MiL numbers. But he may recover and evolve into a great player.

May looks good as a starter. . .but is more injured than Arroyo.

Gray's had a bumpy road as a starter, but may be coming into his own.

Ruiz turned into a very serviceable catcher, but he and Wong seem to be close to a push. If you think Wong can stick in the majors and evolve into an average bat.

Graterol has been very good in the pen. . .but he's a pen arm.

Now consider their 2019 list - https://www.mlb.com/news/dodgers-2019-top-30-prospects-list

Verdugo jumps out at you.



I think Verdugo was probably the best fit for the club at the time, and the book certainly isn't closed on many of these players. If we had gotten the 2023 Verdugo in 2022, I think the outcome would be clearer.

 

[scottyno]

Hypothetical certainly but if we assume that the Dodgers gave us less because we demanded that the Price contract be stapled to the deal, but I would love to know what kind of deal the RS could have extracted had the Dodgers said no to the Price inclusion.

The Padres were the only other team bidding, and weren't willing to take Price, wanted the Sox to take Myers, and if I remember right weren't offering a huge haul in terms of prospects. So probably not a ton more. Price at 16m a year didn't seem terrible at the time, it just worked out that he sat out a year and then was fairly useless for them after that so it looks terrible now.

 

[nighthob]

Uh, yes, I am aware. In the post you're responding to I quite clearly wrote "economic or competitive necessity," plainly implying that I was looking beyond economic costs.

Where I would disagree with you is in the characterization of them as "significant." Both the amateur draft and international free agency are incredibly labor-intensive, time-consuming, and uncertain methods of building a team. An MLB org signs upwards of 50-60 players through those mechanisms every year, and it's considered an excellent return if just one of those guys turns into a sometime all-star five years down the line. Compared to merely using money to purchase the services of a hall-of-famer in his prime, it's a much more inefficient way of building a team.

What it is, though, is a cheap way of building a team. And that's why the owners fought tooth-and-nail for decades to make sure it was the only way teams could be built, have spent the last several CBAs trying to turn back the clock, and continually insist that it is the only "smart" way to build a team.

But it seems pretty clear from your posting in here that you're certain that it's settled law that I'm wrong, that discussion time is over, and it's time to just post dank memes mocking people that disagree with you. So I think I'll step away from this conversation, to the extent that it is one.

Signing free agents for every position is an awfully expensive way to assemble an old team given that most teams do everything in their power to lock up their good players until their post-30 years. See Rafi's extension.

Also, the point isn't to assemble a team of superstars via the draft and international signings, it's to build a talent pipeline that makes it possible to hand out those anchor deals when the opportunity comes. The more cost-controlled talent you have, the more you can pay superstars.

 

[ookami7m]

How does this thread keep getting bumped? It's been 3+ years. Someone please lock this

 

[Remagellan]

How does this thread keep getting bumped? It's been 3+ years. Someone please lock this

But where would the Miss Havishams of the board gather whenever they want to grouse about Chaim's "original sin"?

(To be clear, I'm with you on this.)

 

[absintheofmalaise]

This is getting old again.

 

[LogansDad]

This is getting old again.

 

[jezza1918]

View attachment 64957

First off, and most importantly, that's use of Smokey The Bear is phenomenal. I almost wonder if it's something that should be unlocked for a week at the end of each season so long as the players involved are still relevant. Rehashing it every few weeks when one of the players has a hot, or cold, streak, gets old. But given the nature of it being a franchise altering trade, that was never going to be "won or lost" in the short term, I could see revisiting it sometimes?

 

[joe dokes]

This is getting old again.

ReRedux?
Tridux?
Infinidux?

 

[BigSoxFan]

I don’t post about .250 hitters…

\varitek

 

[jezza1918]

I don’t post about .250 hitters…

\varitek

ok...now lock the thread!

 

[Deweys New Stance]

But where would the Miss Havishams of the board gather whenever they want to grouse about Chaim's "original sin"?

Great, now I'm going to picture Bernie wearing a wedding dress while crafting one of his snarky (but witty as always) posts about John Henry's unwillingness to go above the luxury tax.

We're definitely seeing why it takes years to properly evaluate this (or any) trade. I didn't like it when Graterol was swapped out of the deal, and he still looks like a pretty valuable pitcher, but at this point it looks like the Sox were correct in assessing that he's always going to be a bullpen arm, not a starter. And when Downs and Wong were swapped in, I was fairly excited about the former and viewed the later as just a throw in.

And not that my opinion matters, but I agree with the sentiments posted above about locking the thread in season and opening it in the fall.

 

[absintheofmalaise]

Or people could just not post in the thread until after the season is over. Locking a thread is the last step.

 

[dhappy42]

Here’s an idea: If the thread annoys you, don’t read it.

 

[uncannymanny]

First off, and most importantly, that's use of Smokey The Bear is phenomenal. I almost wonder if it's something that should be unlocked for a week at the end of each season so long as the players involved are still relevant. Rehashing it every few weeks when one of the players has a hot, or cold, streak, gets old. But given the nature of it being a franchise altering trade, that was never going to be "won or lost" in the short term, I could see revisiting it sometimes?

It’s “Smokey Bear”. It’s his name.

 

[MuppetAsteriskTalk]

Here’s an idea: If the thread annoys you, don’t read it.

That makes way too much sense.