Most Disappointing Sox 2017

Who left you most disappointed this year?


  • Total voters
    236

mwonow

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Gotta be X. I got to watch last night's 'performance' from right behind home plate. The results were awful - a Golden sombrero plus a weak dribbler to the pitcher. The approach was at least as bad.

Not so honorable mention for Mookie. Didn't he used to kill inside heat? Why is he now taking, or bouncing harmlessly to the infield?

There's no doubt that the others on the list haven't covered themselves in glory, but personally, I had lower expectations for Hanley and Price and (to a somewhat lesser degree) Porcello than for Mookie and X. Panda wasn't a disappointment - like Dennis Green once said, he was who we thought he was.

Edit - on reflection, I'm sorry to have focused only on Mookie's bat, he's been a joy to watch in the field this year.
 
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Buzzkill Pauley

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Hanley for me, although that's only because I fully believed Panda would give the team yet another season of suck.

Hanley's not getting it done with the stick, and doesn't bring anything to the table defensively to make up for that. Plus he's about the worst baserunner in MLB.
 

Marbleheader

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Xander and Mookie have been tough to watch at the plate. I kept waiting for them to come out of it and have resigned myself to the fact that they won't this season. It really limits their chances to win a series in the postseason with so many holes in the lineup now.
 

SoxJox

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Xander, slider outside and down, whiff. Slider outside and down, whiff. Slider, outside and down, whiff. The pattern seemingly has now become chronic in nature. I haven't looked at his stats in depth, and base my vote on a SSS of games watched over the last month or so, but man it has been frustrating.
 

Bergs

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It has to be X for me. It looked like last year was going to be his breakout season. He started out great, but his approach of seemingly always being off balance diving over the plate was driving me nuts. Just too much going on to have a repeatable & successful swing. But still, he flashed more power, so I was hoping that would continue in 2017. (1st half: .329 .388 .475 .863, 2nd Half:.253 .317 .412 .729)

In the first half of 2017, though...when he was diving over the plate, it was just to slap Jeter-esque oppo singles, with little power save the occasional gapper. This led to a respectable 1st half slash-line, but almost completely devoid of the power potential he flashed in the past (.303 .359 .447 .806).

Since the all star break, though...just complete garbage (.209 .282 .311 .593). I'm pretty sure Mike Trout could do that batting lefty. If it's his hand, then he shouldn't be playing. If its not, he shouldn't be playing.

He had a brutal August last year, too (.219 .274 .325 .599), but recovered nicely in Sept/Oct, so maybe there's some hope, but he has been the biggest disappointment for me based on my expectations going into the season for all of the players in this poll, how much I really like X, and the impact I think it's had on team success.

Late edit:
2016: 1 HR for every 31 ABs
2017: 1 HR for every 59 ABs
 
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tims4wins

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Personally I am more disappointed in Mookie because I thought he was on the super star path, whereas with X I thought he was merely a pretty good player. Plus I am giving X some slight benefit of the doubt for his hand.
 

Bergs

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Personally I am more disappointed in Mookie because I thought he was on the super star path, whereas with X I thought he was merely a pretty good player. Plus I am giving X some slight benefit of the doubt for his hand.
That's certainly a respectable stance. Personally, I was expecting some regression from Mookie (and his D has been fantastic), whereas I was expecting X to get better, not worse.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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I'm having trouble voting here, because there really isn't one guy. It's been an across-the-board letdown from last year; aside from Pomeranz, Edro, Vazquez and most of the bullpen, there isn't a single returning player who hasn't been worse in terms of either performance level, availability, or both, than they were last year. Nobody has flat-out sucked, the way Hanley and Panda did in 2015 or the way Xander and JBJ did in 2014. Everybody's been average-ish or better. But they've all been disappointments. So I voted "Other", and my write-in answer is "Everybody."

The weirdest thing is that we're having this conversation when they're 4 games up in the division. I can't remember the last time such an apparently meh Sox team was winning so much--and that is almost 100% due to three guys: Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz. (A neutral observer might ask whether the manager deserves any credit for it. But I know better than to do that here.o_O)
 

Cesar Crespo

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Of course, over the last 30 games Devers and Nunez have helped tremendously in the win column but that would be like voting Palmeiro for Gold Glove.
 

Merkle's Boner

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I'll put in a vote for Price. I understand injuries, but it's disappointing that he's had a lost season, and really disappointing to think there's a chance next season is lost as well if Tommy John is in his future.
 

chief1

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Its X for me. in addition to him failing to make any adjustments as a hitter as he keeps failingly away at sliders, he is not great fielding SS and now is making boneheaded plays. Tonight he runs into a ground ball. Last night he forgot to signal Nunez to slide or slide away from the catcher on a bad throw. Never got in position. Total loss of focus. It looked like he went right up to Nunez to apologize after the play. Did anyone else notice this? Am i wrong about that?
 

chief1

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Its X for me. in addition to him failing to make any adjustments as a hitter as he keeps failingly away at sliders, he is not great fielding SS and now is making boneheaded plays. Tonight he runs into a ground ball. Last night he forgot to signal Nunez to slide or slide away from the catcher on a bad throw. Never got in position. Total loss of focus. It looked like he went right up to Nunez to apologize after the play. Did anyone else notice this? Am i wrong about that?
And now he misses a sign, but gets bailed out by a bad throw What is up with this guy?
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Definitely Bogaerts. It wasn't that long ago that he seemed to have the potential to be Nomar Jr. Recently, he's looked more like Glenn Hoffman. And its not like his glove makes up for the bat. At least Mookie is still giving us great outfield play.
 

grimshaw

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X just can't seem to decide what kind of a hitter he wants to be. He has had stretches of being a batting champ, along with 20+ home run season, and then the dink and dunk-fest of this year.

This is the second season in a row he has looked dog tired in the second half. He needs to find a way to stay strong all year.

The Mookie pop-up thing this year may be the most baffling, but he is so good in other ways, it's hard to pin the tag on him.
 

canyoubelieveit

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Sure, Mookie has had his share of pop-ups and strike outs lately (compared to his 129 at bat streak without any), but he's had countless well-hit balls right at defenders (or not right at them, in the case with Pillar's catch) and excellent stats with RISP all year. I wish his numbers looked better, but factoring in his defense and baserunning it's hard to be too disappointed in Mookie.

Xander, on the other hand (which may literally be his problem in the second half) hasn't hit the ball hard even when he was going well. During the first half of the season I thought he might have stumbled onto a unique recipe for success, which is to ensure solid contact with a less-than-full swing for a high average and OBP. When it worked it was okay, but now it looks weak and helpless. It's not just the flailing on the two strike sliders away, it's the guarantee that he'll take the first pitch (or second pitch) fastball down the middle to get behind in the count.

(X gets a pass for getting hit by Devers' ball, by the way...he was ducking to avoid getting hit by a shattered bat...not his fault on that play)

edit: but the correct answer to the poll question is easily Pablo Sandoval. He performed so poorly that everyone has convinced themselves after that fact that we were sure he'd be as bad as he was, but his all-around ineptitude was far worse than even the pessimists expected. He came into the season looking fitter and healthier, and there had to be some expectations that he would be a major league player. For heaven's sake he was our starting third baseman. Devers and Nunez have allowed us to partially repress the Panda part of the season, but Pablo was off-the-charts terrible. He easily wins the title of the most disappointing player on the team in 2017.
 
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EllisTheRimMan

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I'm having trouble voting here, because there really isn't one guy. It's been an across-the-board letdown from last year; aside from Pomeranz, Edro, Vazquez and most of the bullpen, there isn't a single returning player who hasn't been worse in terms of either performance level, availability, or both, than they were last year. Nobody has flat-out sucked, the way Hanley and Panda did in 2015 or the way Xander and JBJ did in 2014. Everybody's been average-ish or better. But they've all been disappointments. So I voted "Other", and my write-in answer is "Everybody."

The weirdest thing is that we're having this conversation when they're 4 games up in the division. I can't remember the last time such an apparently meh Sox team was winning so much--and that is almost 100% due to three guys: Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz. (A neutral observer might ask whether the manager deserves any credit for it. But I know better than to do that here.o_O)
Yep. Weird team, weird year. Remarkably, they just have to win 3 of 5, 4 of 7 and 4 of 7 to become all time greats, and never have to go halfsies on a pizza in this town ever again. So much unrealized potential this year from everyone except Sale, Pom and Kimbrel (All pitchers). I've never seen such a successful team like this. Manager and front office have to get some credit, given the vacuum of consistent on field performance throughout the season.

BTW, I have been a vocal advocate of getting rid of Farrell since early 2014. However, credit where credit might be due.
 

soxeast

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I went with Price. I was expecting this year an innings eater plus a cy young type of pitcher. In other words one of the best pitchers in baseball. Sale and Pomeranz have sort of hidden Price's "no show" this year.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm having trouble voting here, because there really isn't one guy. It's been an across-the-board letdown from last year; aside from Pomeranz, Edro, Vazquez and most of the bullpen, there isn't a single returning player who hasn't been worse in terms of either performance level, availability, or both, than they were last year. Nobody has flat-out sucked, the way Hanley and Panda did in 2015 or the way Xander and JBJ did in 2014. Everybody's been average-ish or better. But they've all been disappointments. So I voted "Other", and my write-in answer is "Everybody."

The weirdest thing is that we're having this conversation when they're 4 games up in the division. I can't remember the last time such an apparently meh Sox team was winning so much--and that is almost 100% due to three guys: Sale, Kimbrel, and Pomeranz. (A neutral observer might ask whether the manager deserves any credit for it. But I know better than to do that here.o_O)
Do you think Ben10 is having a disappointing year or about what is to be expected?
 

streeter88

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After reading all the posts here, and after tonight's game which has continued a positive trend for two players I was extremely disappointed in this year's (Porcello and Hanley), I have to change my vote to X. He was an OK singles hitter first half, but has really tanked since he hurt his hand.
Which raises a question, is it unfair to be disappointed in someone you know is playing hurt, as Hanley and X, not to mention Mitchy 2 Bags have been?
 

EllisTheRimMan

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After reading all the posts here, and after tonight's game which has continued a positive trend for two players I was extremely disappointed in this year's (Porcello and Hanley), I have to change my vote to X. He was an OK singles hitter first half, but has really tanked since he hurt his hand.
Which raises a question, is it unfair to be disappointed in someone you know is playing hurt, as Hanley and X, not to mention Mitchy 2 Bags have been?
David Ortiz's 2009 wrist says trust your first instincts.
 

jerry casale

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Hanley, Hanley and Hanley
He's left over 200 men on base and plays a position part time and runs poorly.
All this for $19M. At least Betts and X play a position.
Porcello a close second.
 

Byrdbrain

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And now he misses a sign, but gets bailed out by a bad throw What is up with this guy?
I agree that X is the answer but I also am not going to assume that X missed a sign there.
It is possible but there are several other options as well.

It isn't Hanley in my opinion because this is more or less what I expected from him, I expected more from X.
 

Savin Hillbilly

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Do you think Ben10 is having a disappointing year or about what is to be expected?
Probably what is to be expected, maybe just slightly disappointing. I'd compare his 2017 to Ellsbury's 2008--kid comes in and makes a big splash in the stretch run, then regresses to just-pretty-good the next year, which is hardly shocking. But I didn't make an exception for him because he, too, has not been as good as last year (even if the sample size discrepancy puts an asterisk on the comparison).
 

Flunky

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Hanley is older and there's a wild expectation of him channeling Ortiz, which is an unfair ask (possibly unfair to ask of any other active player to be honest).
X is young and he was an important offensive component in the first half of the season.
Price is injured. So I'm disappointed he's inured? /shrug

It's Panda. Nothing was more maddening with this team than the 3rd base suckitude pre-Devers.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Probably what is to be expected, maybe just slightly disappointing. I'd compare his 2017 to Ellsbury's 2008--kid comes in and makes a big splash in the stretch run, then regresses to just-pretty-good the next year, which is hardly shocking. But I didn't make an exception for him because he, too, has not been as good as last year (even if the sample size discrepancy puts an asterisk on the comparison).
Other than coming in and making a splash during the stretch run, I'm not sure the two are all that similar. Benintendi hasn't fallen off all that much compared to his splashy debut, and certainly not as far as Ellsbury did (aside from lead the league in SB, I wouldn't classify Ellsbury's 2008 as "pretty good" at all)

Ellsbury in 2007: .353/.394/.509, 131 OPS+, 33 G
Ellsbury in 2008: .280/.336/.394, 88 OPS+, 145 G

Benintendi in 2016: .295/.359/.476, 118 OPS+, 34 G
Benintendi in 2017: .275/.354/.436, 107 OPS+, 124 G (on pace for ~150)
 

Rovin Romine

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I voted Porcello.

I had hopes, but zero solid expectations, for Panda, so he wasn't truly a disappointment. Xander and Betts are both still young guys and they haven't a track record of sustained excellence that they're falling off from - downtick seasons aren't the end of the world. Hanley is 33, has done everything anyone asked him to do, and has seemed to be just plain snakebitten this year. As for Price, he's the least disappointing; injuries happen and thus, I'm more disappointed in random fate than I am with Price personally. Same thing re: any injured player.

Porcello though - he's 2015 suckatude in a slightly different package. Curiously, as of this post, he's started the same number of games as he did in 2015 - 28. His ERA is slightly better than 2015, and he's striking out slightly more guys, but the HRs are absolutely killing him. While W/L is rightly panned, it does somewhat reflect what a starter does on the mound. He's 9-15, his same final record in 2015.

I had hoped for a Price/Sale/Porcello dominant rotation, with Pom and Edro more than adequately filling in the back end. Porcello, despite not being injured (as far as we know) has unfigured it out just as fast as he figured it out last year.

We're 13-15 when he starts, as opposed to last year's 25-8. If he had regressed from his Cy Young form to something like 18-12 overall, we'd likely be up 4 more games at this point in the season, and we'd be able to work in some rest for our key guys down the stretch.
 

PrometheusWakefield

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I voted Porcello.

I had hopes, but zero solid expectations, for Panda, so he wasn't truly a disappointment. Xander and Betts are both still young guys and they haven't a track record of sustained excellence that they're falling off from - downtick seasons aren't the end of the world. Hanley is 33, has done everything anyone asked him to do, and has seemed to be just plain snakebitten this year. As for Price, he's the least disappointing; injuries happen and thus, I'm more disappointed in random fate than I am with Price personally. Same thing re: any injured player.

Porcello though - he's 2015 suckatude in a slightly different package. Curiously, as of this post, he's started the same number of games as he did in 2015 - 28. His ERA is slightly better than 2015, and he's striking out slightly more guys, but the HRs are absolutely killing him. While W/L is rightly panned, it does somewhat reflect what a starter does on the mound. He's 9-15, his same final record in 2015.

I had hoped for a Price/Sale/Porcello dominant rotation, with Pom and Edro more than adequately filling in the back end. Porcello, despite not being injured (as far as we know) has unfigured it out just as fast as he figured it out last year.

We're 13-15 when he starts, as opposed to last year's 25-8. If he had regressed from his Cy Young form to something like 18-12 overall, we'd likely be up 4 more games at this point in the season, and we'd be able to work in some rest for our key guys down the stretch.
The BABIP gods are laughing at you. HR% goes from 9.3% to 14.7%, LOB% goes from 74.3% to 69.9% and BABIP goes from .269 to .327 and all of a sudden he's teh suck.

Look behind the numbers and he's close to the same pitcher all three years, it's Fortuna's favors that have changed.
 

Reggie's Racquet

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I'm having trouble voting here, because there really isn't one guy. It's been an across-the-board letdown from last year; aside from Pomeranz, Edro, Vazquez and most of the bullpen, there isn't a single returning player who hasn't been worse in terms of either performance level, availability, or both, than they were last year.
So let's keep the manager and the GM out of this. I voted Big Papi.
 

Rovin Romine

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The BABIP gods are laughing at you. HR% goes from 9.3% to 14.7%, LOB% goes from 74.3% to 69.9% and BABIP goes from .269 to .327 and all of a sudden he's teh suck.

Look behind the numbers and he's close to the same pitcher all three years, it's Fortuna's favors that have changed.
I'd agree if his pitch usage and approach was the same - but he's using his sinker significantly less often than last year - about 30% of the time this year as opposed to 40% last year. He's also giving up more fly balls overall (as has been the trend for him.) Trouble is, if enough of those fly balls carry for homers, it's a step backward. He's taken that step.

I wouldn't say he's been the same pitcher in terms of stuff - in 2015 he threw slightly harder with less movement, in 2016 he lost speed and gained movement (and used his four seam a lot less than 2015 and 2017), while this year he's close to his 2016 numbers in terms of velocity and movement, but the pitch usage is very different. In terms of usage, 2015 and 2017 are much closer to each other than either is to 2016.

All that said, some of the bad outcome may certainly be luck.
 

8slim

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I went with Price. It's Labor Day weekend and he's given us 7 quality starts for the year. Thank goodness for Pomeranz.
 

Hoodie Sleeves

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The BABIP gods are laughing at you. HR% goes from 9.3% to 14.7%, LOB% goes from 74.3% to 69.9% and BABIP goes from .269 to .327 and all of a sudden he's teh suck.

Look behind the numbers and he's close to the same pitcher all three years, it's Fortuna's favors that have changed.

His BB% went up by roughly 30%
His K% went down marginally
His LD% went up
His HR/FB went up
IFFB/FB went down

About the only stat that looks good is k/9.


Dude isn't getting unlucky. He's walking way more people, and his groundballs have turned into hard hit flyballs and line drives (the GO/AO decreasing is a long term trend). Fangraph's batted ball data (BIS) has a 10% increase from last year in the "hard hit" category for him (which all comes from med, "weak" is the same as last year).
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Hanley, Hanley and Hanley
He's left over 200 men on base and plays a position part time and runs poorly.
All this for $19M. At least Betts and X play a position.
Porcello a close second.
Hanley's hitting with runners on is just bizarre. He's played too long for squishy things like "pressing" or psychological factors to be at play. I just think it's an anomaly.

I keep waiting for it to revert to the mean. He has a month left. The Red Sox have some really weird 2017 stats, but this may be the most difficult to understand. His clutchness stats are actually all pretty good and close to his mean except for 2 out RISP. I'm not saying I expect that Hanley's men on and RISP OPS is going to end the year in the high .700s. (If it does, we'll likely have a very good September.) But I do think it has to improve. Well, doesn't have to, but it would just be really unusual if it didn't smooth out a little.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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...(aside from lead the league in SB, I wouldn't classify Ellsbury's 2008 as "pretty good" at all)
I agree with your overall point/comparison of Ellsbury and Ben10, but not this parenthetical. OPS undervalues good basestealers. If you added Ellsbury's net steals to his total bases, his OPS would have been about 40 pts higher, more than enough to put him in the "pretty good" category.

Back to the main topic, I voted X. Subjectively, I expected and hoped for greater consistency and a step closer toward stardom for X, and that hasn't happened. I had no such comparable expectations for Panda or Hanley.
 

phenweigh

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Disappointment starts with expectations. I foolishly thought that Panda was finally taking getting in shape professionally and would be decent if healthy. So for me, he has to be the answer.
 

dbn

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That I fully expected Sandoval to be awful at both the plate and in the field this season yet still voted for him as most disappointing says a lot about 2017 Pablo Sandoval.

edit: just for whatever, I looked at his 2017 stats with SF. His OPS+ is 5 pts worse than his 2017 BOS OPS+. He's avoiding errors relatively "well", though: his fielding % at 3B with SF, were it qualified, would not be dead last among 3B in the majors!
 
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MikeM

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Disappointment starts with expectations
This, except you should really be a lot more disappointed in yourself then with Panda imo. Reasonably expecting him to do anything but suck this year was completely unrealistic since day 1 of last off season.

Like i said in the other thread, if I'm giving the cop out'ish pass to Price here for getting injured then my pick boils down to Mookie. He went into the season will all the makings lined up to be our next great stud, and who unless you are hanging your hat on that B-Ref WAR total simply isn't with his tick above average offense.

Xander is close, but ultimately it was easier to see that coming there after his second half in 2016.

Porcello and Hanley also both register in of course, although the surrounding coming off a fluke factor was fairly strong in both cases. Hanley is not as obvious there, but he is aging and it's not like he's been money in the bank since 2010 either.
 

strek1

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I put Mookie because even though X has been really bad, Mookie has a much higher ceiling than any of the other guys. And he is a LONG way from it.
 

czar

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and my opinion is those who vote Mookie are drunk. Even in a down year offensively (and while the IFFB are concerning, they can't explain all the BABIP luck), he's a top-10 WAR hitter in the AL. I guess he's a massive disappointment if you assumed he'd be Troutian year-in-and-year-out.

For me it's Hanley. Coming into the season he was expected to be a 1B who could lead the offense, particularly helping the power side. His ISO is bad, his command of the strikeout rate has gone the wrong way, and to put the cherry on top, his inability (or lack of desire, whatever) to play 1B has pinned the Red Sox into a position where they now A) can't use the DH slot to give regulars rest from playing the field and B) are forced to use the occasionally flawed Mitch Moreland in situations where he is like to hurt the team offensively because he is occasionally flawed.

I'm kind of shocked he's so low down the poll right now -- I guess people really didn't expect much of him because he's been barely above replacement this year.
 

scottyno

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We're 13-15 when he starts, as opposed to last year's 25-8. If he had regressed from his Cy Young form to something like 18-12 overall, we'd likely be up 4 more games at this point in the season, and we'd be able to work in some rest for our key guys down the stretch.
Sox average 4.37 runs in his starts and 4.92 runs when anyone else starts. While he's certainly regressed, that they're 13-15 when he pitches isn't really his fault.
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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For me it's Hanley. Coming into the season he was expected to be a 1B who could lead the offense, particularly helping the power side. His ISO is bad, his command of the strikeout rate has gone the wrong way, and to put the cherry on top, his inability (or lack of desire, whatever) to play 1B has pinned the Red Sox into a position where they now A) can't use the DH slot to give regulars rest from playing the field and B) are forced to use the occasionally flawed Mitch Moreland in situations where he is like to hurt the team offensively because he is occasionally flawed.
Can't argue that Hanley has been disappointing, but the bolded hasn't been true at all in the last six weeks. Since Sam Travis was sent down on July 18, Hanley Ramirez has gotten EVERY start at 1B against LHP (13 starts).

The last time Moreland started against an LHP at all was June 28. Now, there is a case to be made that Moreland played too much through his broken-toe-induced slump, but that wasn't because Hanley couldn't or wouldn't play 1B. Travis was around to take up more of the slack at the time and yet Moreland still played. It would seem the mistake there was letting Moreland play at all while injured, not that Hanley wouldn't or couldn't play the field himself.
 

grimshaw

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For me it's Hanley. Coming into the season he was expected to be a 1B who could lead the offense, particularly helping the power side. His ISO is bad, his command of the strikeout rate has gone the wrong way, and to put the cherry on top, his inability (or lack of desire, whatever) to play 1B has pinned the Red Sox into a position where they now A) can't use the DH slot to give regulars rest from playing the field and B) are forced to use the occasionally flawed Mitch Moreland in situations where he is like to hurt the team offensively because he is occasionally flawed.

I'm kind of shocked he's so low down the poll right now -- I guess people really didn't expect much of him because he's been barely above replacement this year.
If it were disappointment relative to paycheck, then he would be far and away my #1. But he has been declining and injured, so the drop wasn't shocking. The in their prime guys dropping off is a lot more unexpected.

That he was moved off the left side of the infield immediately killed his value, so that's more on Cherington than anyone. He was bottom tier, at worst defensively at SS but maybe if he was signed to play 3b. The contract would have been more palatable.

Sandoval rightly gets killed, but in retrospect how the front office intended to use Hanley (in a non premium defensive role over his decline years) while still paying him 20 million, looks dumber. Especially in a market where 3/4 of the 1b are lapping his production for half the cost or less.
 
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tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
25,633
Hingham, MA
Hanley has a .779 OPS and 103 OPS+. Last year he was .866 and 126
Mookie has a .777 OPS and 103 OPS+. Last year he was .897 and 133

Given that Hanley is aging, and that Mookie has declined more offensively, to me Mookie is easily the bigger disappointment.

Also, whoever said that Mookie is only a disappointment if you expect him to have Trout-esque years is flat out wrong. His 2016 OPS ranked 18th in MLB. It ranks 94th this year. It's not like expecting him to be a top 20 hitter is some insane expectation IMO. Maybe he wasn't going to duplicate 2016 but is top 50 too much to ask? (that would be a .845 OPS this year)