Much like Newman, the Sox are not “Ready to deliver”– The 2025 Offseason News (& rumors?) Thread

8slim

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
28,964
Unreal America
Devizier said:
It's too bad this post didn't get more engagement. It's a pretty fair-minded take and a decent counterweight to the prevailing winds these days. I suppose you can see this as an endorsement.
Click to expand...
I agree, it was a fair take by @Snoop Soxy Dogg .

However, signing premium players to rich, long contracts is also the way the game is currently being played. If the Sox choose not to participate in that market, then it seems unlikely that we'll win titles.

I'm also not sure that doing so means we have to "reset" every X years. The Sox purposefully chose to follow the path they've been on for the past 5 years. There were other options. Yes, those options involved spending more money. But it strikes me as odd that a fan base who also has a lot of Celtics fans in it wouldn't hold this ownership group to the same expectation as that one. Money is money. Ownership has a freaking TON of it. Getting taxed to account for the last couple years on a deal isn't a huge deal, unless they allow it to be.
 
8slim

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
28,964
Unreal America
Auger34 said:
EDIT: I did want to add that I am not sure that this is Breslow's doing. After reading the recent Athletic piece with multiple quotes from Breslow, he really seems to be strongly hinting that ownership isn't willing to pay the premium that is needed. His quote about getting comfortable being uncomfortable seemed to be either directly aimed at ownership or aimed at the fans to prepare them for a trade where someone (Casas?) is dealt for pitching
Click to expand...
I didn't read that piece. Now I'm not sure I want to! ;)

I'm repeating myself, but this offseason is the line in the sand for me. My expectation is that this franchise spends, trades and starts playing to win again. If not, then I'll calibrate my fandom accordingly.
 
MikeM

MikeM

Member
SoSH Member
May 27, 2010
3,276
Florida
YTF said:
That won't be enough. I think Boras asks for more as an opening bid.
Click to expand...
My first instinct would be the assume we are buckling in for a very long and drawn out (into at least late January at the min) game of chicken on Burnes as he holds out for one of Boston/SF/TOR to be his go 9 years sucker.

But I'm also curious to see how much of an impact not finding the big payday contracts last winter for Montgomery/Snell might potentially factor in to how Boras plays this hand out.
 
jon abbey

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
75,026
MikeM said:
My first instinct would be the assume we are buckling in for a very long and drawn out (into at least late January at the min) game of chicken on Burnes as he holds out for one of Boston/SF/TOR to be his go 9 years sucker.

But I'm also curious to see how much of an impact not finding the big payday contracts last winter for Montgomery/Snell might potentially factor in to how Boras plays this hand out.
Click to expand...
I think TOR gives him a massive deal in the next 24 hours.
 
B

brownsox

New Member
Mar 11, 2007
61
curly2 said:
Thanks. The SoxProspects guys don’t think he’s getting picked.
Click to expand...
The conventional wisdom (and I basically agree with this) is that teams are unlikely to pick and keep a guy in MLB who hasn’t made it out of Single-A. You don’t see that many draft-and-stashes of developmental prospects these days.

But as we see on this board and elsewhere, the people who like Monegro love him, and it only takes one team to decide they love him. I guess I would be surprised but not shocked if he did get picked.
 
RS2004foreever

RS2004foreever

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2022
1,611
ESPN says Passan reports - Red Sox are finalizing a trade for Crochet.
If you do that Buehler is a good second addition.
Crochet
Buehler
Belo
Houck
Crawford/Giolito
 
Max Power

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
9,006
Boston, MA
8slim said:
I think you nailed it. Attendance may not be down a ton in absolute terms, but it's very clear that the revenue generated from ticket sales is down meaningfully. The Sox were practically giving tickets away most of last season to put butts in seats.

And your NESN point is also dead on. Ratings have tumbled farrrrrr more than both national MLB games and local games on the few other powerhouse RSNs in NY and LA.

Not signing Soto didn't bother me in the least. Missing out on Fried pisses me off. Burnes is the only FA left that I really want. And they need more than one starter.
Click to expand...
How do you figure? Bello, Houck, Crawford, and Giolito are all under contract. Who gets bumped from the rotation to get that sixth starter?
 
Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2022
1,855
8slim said:
I agree, it was a fair take by @Snoop Soxy Dogg .

However, signing premium players to rich, long contracts is also the way the game is currently being played. If the Sox choose not to participate in that market, then it seems unlikely that we'll win titles.

I'm also not sure that doing so means we have to "reset" every X years. The Sox purposefully chose to follow the path they've been on for the past 5 years. There were other options. Yes, those options involved spending more money. But it strikes me as odd that a fan base who also has a lot of Celtics fans in it wouldn't hold this ownership group to the same expectation as that one. Money is money. Ownership has a freaking TON of it. Getting taxed to account for the last couple years on a deal isn't a huge deal, unless they allow it to be.
Click to expand...
This is what bothers me so much, but no, they really didn't. Heading into the 2023 season they spent (roughly) $19m per year on Yoshida. $8m on one year of Turner (they also had a buyout), $10m on Kluber and $7m on Duvall and $8m on Martin. They could have spent $59m on guys that had an MLB track record or would have been part of the team for more than a season.

Going into 2022 they spent $5m on Rich Hill, $7m on Wacha, $3m on Strahm and $18m - factoring in both years for Jackie Bradley Jr (Hamilton and Binelas). That's $33m they could have spent elsewhere.

It's not that they haven't been spending, it's that they've been allocating the money they do spend on pieces that have done nothing to bolster the medium term of the franchise while staying relevant while waiting on prospects.
 
8slim

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
28,964
Unreal America
Max Power said:
How do you figure? Bello, Houck, Crawford, and Giolito are all under contract. Who gets bumped from the rotation to get that sixth starter?
Click to expand...
Seriously? We can't "bump" Crawford (who wasn't good for the last 2/3rd of the season) or Giolito (who... well, duh).

There's definitely no chance that we'll need a 6th starter during the year.

Why are we still playing this game?
 
8slim

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
28,964
Unreal America
Big Papi's Mango Salsa said:
This is what bothers me so much, but no, they really didn't. Heading into the 2023 season they spent (roughly) $19m per year on Yoshida. $8m on one year of Turner (they also had a buyout), $10m on Kluber and $7m on Duvall and $8m on Martin. They could have spent $59m on guys that had an MLB track record or would have been part of the team for more than a season.

Going into 2022 they spent $5m on Rich Hill, $7m on Wacha, $3m on Strahm and $18m - factoring in both years for Jackie Bradley Jr (Hamilton and Binelas). That's $33m they could have spent elsewhere.

It's not that they haven't been spending, it's that they've been allocating the money they do spend on pieces that have done nothing to bolster the medium term of the franchise while staying relevant while waiting on prospects.
Click to expand...
I was thinking more about their decisions to part with the core of the 2018 team.
 
RS2004foreever

RS2004foreever

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2022
1,611
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
12,791
nvalvo said:
I think it would be more than the offer you list, yes, but not wildly more. (Mostly, I just think that Bleis is kind of untradeable right now because of his terrible 2024; if he gets off to a hot start in 2025, he could change his outlook very quickly.)

White Sox leadership said that they want multiple MLB-ready starting position players, so the return depends in part on how serious they are about that. I'd expect it to be something like
  • Wilyer Abreu, David Hamilton, Jhostynxon García, Yoeilin Cespedes, and Yordanny Monegro (if they want a lot of players, two of whom could break camp)
  • Marcelo Mayer and García/Cespedes (if they want the highest-ceiling centerpiece they can get)
  • Abreu and Kutter Crawford (presumably part of a three-team deal that involves Crawford heading elsewhere for more prospects)
But I think it's important to think about what other teams might offer. E.g., the Orioles could build a deal around Coby Mayo, but if I'm the White Sox I'd rather have an Abreu+ or Mayer+ package; Mayo's bat looks great, but there's position risk and they just got a young 3B, Miguel Vargas, back from the Dodgers.

They need to trade him. They will take the best package offered.

(Still, just give Burnes $300m: it sounds like the competition is the Giants and Blue Jays. We can win this one.)
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, it looks like they gave up more than we both thought they would
 
S

skip wright

New Member
Jan 4, 2018
66
Big Papi's Mango Salsa said:
What Boras says.

What Boras is thinking while he says that "...because my client Yoshida is one of them. Boston paid him twice as much as anyone else offered and three times what he's worth. Had never even tried a lobster roll before. Now he can't get enough of them. He loves that place.



At least someone is learning to stop (at present count) quadrupling down on telling fans they're going to deliver. That's progress, I suppose.
Click to expand...
my guess is that the red sox will deliver the exact same thing next season as they delivered this past season.they will make big offers to certain players that are lowball offers to players that they know wont come to boston.they will publicize the fact that they are all in on these players yet those players wouldnt even come to boston if we offered twice the money and half the years.the front office will appear that they are all in yet not a snowballs chance in hell of signing anyone good enuff to make a difference.we will probly trade a couple prospects for 35 to 40 year olds that are 4 or 5 years past their productive years.kinda like the pats did this year,the pats supposedly were all in on dhopkins...calvin ridley and tee higgins how long do henry and kraft think the fans will play this game and keep buying season tickets to teams that have no chance of competing.
 
Last edited:
Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Big Papi's Mango Salsa

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 7, 2022
1,855
One thing I realized in looking back at the comments of various people associated with the Red Sox (which always is tough):

It's ownership that talks up the game about spending (Werner; Kennedy).

Breslow talked about delivering and sacrificing the future for the present, and I don't think he ever mentioned anything to do with spending. All of which lead to "trade" talk and not FA spending. Breslow got his guy and delivered, massive credit to him. I adore the trade and think it will be a win for both teams (because I really like Teel).

Crochet, Houck, Bello, Gio, Crawford is a much better rotation than the Sox have had in a looooooong time.

Also, to be fair, I think @chawson should get to change the thread title back. Breslow did exactly what he said he was going to do, and he was the "ready to deliver" quote. Werner and Kennedy still look tone deaf and I have no idea what Kennedy was thinking doing that in a sit down interview, but Breslow gets a pass as he delivered a bold move to make the 2025 and 2026 Red Sox a **** of a lot better.
 
Last edited:
Auger34

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
12,791
nvalvo said:
Maybe? Teel feels like less than Mayer or Abreu (to me), but Montgomery feels like a lot more than Bleis or Hamilton.
Click to expand...
I would say that it’s Mayer then Teel then Abreu (if I had to guess).

Montgomery and Meidroth are definitely more valuable than the 2nd and 3rd pieces we proposed.
 
HangingW/ScottCooper

HangingW/ScottCooper

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,831
Scituate, MA
Crochet set to make around $3 mil in arbitration this year per Cots. If he's willing to do an extension, does the CBA automatically re-value it for Luxury Tax purposes or could you get around that for 2025 like they did with Adrian Gonzalez?
 
Jake Peavy's Demons

Jake Peavy's Demons

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 13, 2013
656
A thought I just had I haven't seen here yet was what if they use the Burnes money to allocate for a Crochet extension. Then, go for/sign Sasaki in a full-court-press plan. Still 'no pitchers 30+' plan.

Edit: I know there's only so much they can give to Sasaki. ~$6.5MM?

But I guess Sasaki is likely SD/SF/LAD bound.
 
RS2004foreever

RS2004foreever

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 15, 2022
1,611
Boston now has 2 of the top 14 pitchers by WAR in the majors last year. PHI and SEA are the only two other teams that has 2 pitchers in the top 19.
93086
 
nvalvo

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
22,771
Rogers Park
Auger34 said:
I would say that it’s Mayer then Teel then Abreu (if I had to guess).

Montgomery and Meidroth are definitely more valuable than the 2nd and 3rd pieces we proposed.
Click to expand...
I'm strongly in agreement on Montgomery, but Meidroth is a weird one. He's a divisive player whom I think some teams would value highly and others very little. I'm a big Meidroth skeptic, personally, so I am glad we found him a contact-obsessed landing spot. He fits right in with Nicky Lopez and Lenyn Sosa.

I live in Chicago, so I'll get a chance to see up close whether he can prove me wrong.
 
chrisfont9

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 2, 2007
8,452
seattle - Avatar is Koji, born in October 2013
Were we bidding against anyone for Burnes? At some point there are others but with the chatter of him getting more than Fried it started to sound like the negotiations consisted of just squeezing the Sox because they were desperate. Not desperate anymore.

Oh also those teams selling one year of a guy, Framber or Cease? Now the price comes back down on that bullshit too. Great pitchers but if they are bound for free agency, then no top 25 prospects are going back for them.
 
Hank Scorpio

Hank Scorpio

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 1, 2013
8,181
Salem, NH
In light of the Teel trade, a deal with Atlanta for Sean Murphy makes a TON of sense. Massively upgrades C defense, and probably offense if his down year was an injury related aberration.

He’s got negative value on BTV, but not sure how he’d be valued in the real world, by ATL.

He’d be a fantastic pickup IMO. What would the Braves want for him?
 
Yelling At Clouds

Yelling At Clouds

Post-darwinian
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
4,114
Hank Scorpio said:
In light of the Teel trade, a deal with Atlanta for Sean Murphy makes a TON of sense. Massively upgrades C defense, and probably offense if his down year was an injury related aberration.

He’s got negative value on BTV, but not sure how he’d be valued in the real world, by ATL.

He’d be a fantastic pickup IMO. What would the Braves want for him?
Click to expand...
They have a hole in LF, Abreu could plug right in there, Kelenic notwithstanding.
 
snowmanny

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
16,968
Annoyed to lose Teel, although I would have been completely pissed off if they had traded one of the other three. But I wish they could have just spent money on someone.
RS2004foreever said:
And Boston is still way below the luxury tax.
Click to expand...
Oh goody! So are the Pirates btw
 
nighthob

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
13,107
nvalvo said:
Maybe? Teel feels like less than Mayer or Abreu (to me), but Montgomery feels like a lot more than Bleis or Hamilton.
Click to expand...
I mean, probably. But when guys have zero time on a professional diamond it’s tough to pimp them as the centerpiece.
 
Max Power

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
9,006
Boston, MA
It would be a little nuts, but I'd kind of like to see Scherzer signed now. He hasn't pitched much the last couple of years, but he's still been good when he has and he's a fun guy to root for. Maybe his healthy time would coincide with time missed by the other 5 pitchers in the rotation.
 
Fishy1

Fishy1

Head Mason
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
8,424
I really doubt Murphy costs as much as Abreu, tbh, he just came off an age 29 season where he was hurt and he hit way worse than Wong, and he's signed all the way through 2028. There's a real risk he's never the same offensive player again, and any deal for him will have to factor that in.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom