PC Drunken Friar said:
I was at Game 1 of that series. What a turnaround. Of course, Grady left Pedro in a bit too long in Game 5, too...
My Favorite Non-Pedro Red Sox Pitching Performance
- Thread starter jacklamabe65
- Start date
I was at Game 1 of that series. What a turnaround. Of course, Grady left Pedro in a bit too long in Game 5, too...
Schilling's bloody sock starts have been mentioned, but they need to get more love. Pure guts and guile, when most other pitchers would have been out for the season, with the highest possible stakes, and he came through so big.
Game 6 against the Yankees in New York was mythic-- that Yankee offense was loaded with stars, they were a 101-win team back at home, and Schilling could barely walk. If he gets hit hard, the season's over and it's 87 years and counting. But he delivers 7 innings, with one run, 5 Ks, no walks. Just pure guts and greatness.
And then he came through against the Cardinals in the World Series too. It is the definition of heroic and legendary.
Lowe's start in Game 7 is really underrated as well.
Game 6 against the Yankees in New York was mythic-- that Yankee offense was loaded with stars, they were a 101-win team back at home, and Schilling could barely walk. If he gets hit hard, the season's over and it's 87 years and counting. But he delivers 7 innings, with one run, 5 Ks, no walks. Just pure guts and greatness.
And then he came through against the Cardinals in the World Series too. It is the definition of heroic and legendary.
Lowe's start in Game 7 is really underrated as well.
At the time, it looked like another chapter in the cursed Red Sox history but Tim Wakefield in the 2003 ALCS was amazing. If he had somehow pulled out game 7, he would have won 3 out of the 4 games and been the series MVP. Alas, it wasn't meant to be.
He ended the series with 14 IP, a 2.57 ERA and 10 Ks.
He ended the series with 14 IP, a 2.57 ERA and 10 Ks.
glasspusher said:
I was at this game in 1983.
I recall Bill James saying that as good as the Red Sox bullpen was (and it included Clear, Burgmeier and Aponte having great years in 1982), the way Houk used it was hurting the young pitchers. He was constantly yanking Tudor and Ojeda in the second inning if they gave up a couple of runs.
Honorable mention to Curtis Leskanic in Game 4 of the 2004 ALCS.
It's not so much that he was great, but I still remember the way I felt with every pitch he threw.
It's not so much that he was great, but I still remember the way I felt with every pitch he threw.
A lot of good ones, I'd also like to nominate the Jon Lester no-no. Having just come back from cancer at the end of the previous season, it was still up in the air how he was going to respond, and then he threw that thing... I was ecstatic for him.
Thank you. I remember listening to this on the radio and being amazed at Siebert's two home runs, both of which were off breaking balls, if the announcer was correct. I was all of eight years old. Siebert's became one of my favorite players due to this game.rlsb said:
Another gem was a 78 pitch complete game shutout by Bill Lee around 1974 or 1975. I had the pleasure to watch that game on TV. I tried to find it on Baseball Reference but could not locate individual game pitch counts for Lee in those years.
1918stabbedbyfoulke said:
I think the Lee 78 pitch game was from May 8, 1974, against the Yankees on a Friday night. (Home games on Friday were televised before Channel 38 took over with an expanded schedule in 1975). Lee had just one K, allowed just 5 H and 1 BB, but 4 of the baserunners were erased on DPs
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS197405080.shtml
To bend the rules, I'd nominiate Tim Wakefield's 1995 season.
Context: The Sox appeared in the post season in 1990 - after that 88 win season, they were systematically mowed down by the A's in the ALCS.
1991 - 84 wins for a distant second in the AL East.
1992 - 73 wins for dead last.
1993 - 80 wins for 5th out of 7 teams in the AL East.
1994 - 54 wins (4th of 5th in the strike shortened season) (Dan Duquette's first season and Hobson's last as manager.)
In 1995, the Sox had a new manager in Kennedy. The pitching looked weak, featuring a gimpy Clemens, widely seen to have lost his sparkle after a lackluster 93, and a good (but shortened) 94, a young Aaron Sele, and not much else. The staff was full of other people's cast-offs like Erik Hanson, Mike Maddux, Stan Belinda, Rheal Cormier, but we did have Ken Ryan in the bullpen. Offensively, Vaughn, Valentin, Naehring were in their primes. Greenwell was old but decent. DD had picked up some kid named Troy O'Leary, and signed the even-then-scandalous Canseco from TX to DH. So in some ways, it was what the current incarnation of the Sox was supposed to be - probably a good offense, some potentially good pitchers, but a weak rotation full of question marks, and a very unimpressive bullpen. (And Clemens was injured to start the season - wouldn't be back till June, when he was not dominant at all.)
Wakefield had done well for the Pirates in '92, but had lost his touch in '93. By '94, the Pirates had lost confidence in him and sent him to AAA, where he turned in a 5.15, 5.84 ERA season). In 95, as a 28 year old who hadn't been effective (arguably) for two years, he started 4 games for Pawtucket with a 2.5 ERA. He was called up and started his first game for the Sox on May 27th, and it's a fair bet to say, prior to the game, he was completely unheralded, and most likely seen as a stopgap starter. By Aug. 14 (to cherry pick) he was 14-1 with a 1.65 ERA.
I think the correct word to describe Wakefield's effect in June, July, and early August was "euphoria." The Sox (without Clemens) were riding the coat-tails of a trick-pitch specialist, a scrapheap ace, who hadn't been on anyone's radar for a couple of years. It's not like Wakefield was singlehandedly responsible for the season; the Sox were 16-10 when they called Wakefield up, 3 games up on Detroit, and 3.5 up on the Yankees, but their starting pitching to date was: Sele, Cormier, Hanson, Frankie Rodriguez, Vaughn Eshelman, and Zane Smith. You had the distinct feeling the wheels could come off. But Wakefield was implausibly unstoppable, and by Aug. 14, they were 9 games up on NY. While Wakefield did fade toward the end of the season, we were clearly headed to a pennant.
I was around for Clemens' 86, 88 and 90 campaigns, but with the exception of some of Pedro's seasons, I honestly can't remember the sort giddy-glee that surrounded Wakefield's '95 starts. I'm not sure why it was that way. The newspapers were full of knuckleball articles and speculation on his future and career. Everyone looked forward to the next Wakefield start. If he had the same stats at any other time, it may not have been the same. He really was a scrapheap ace after the strike season. In some ways he also symbolized the end of the awful early '90s teams. He was also a kind of "everyman ace" - in the sense that he relied on a skill-pitch, rather than a "physical prowess pitch" (if one can make that kind of distinction.)
Anyway, that's my nomination. It was so quirky and unexpected, I think it won a lot of people back to the Sox/baseball, post-strike.
Context: The Sox appeared in the post season in 1990 - after that 88 win season, they were systematically mowed down by the A's in the ALCS.
1991 - 84 wins for a distant second in the AL East.
1992 - 73 wins for dead last.
1993 - 80 wins for 5th out of 7 teams in the AL East.
1994 - 54 wins (4th of 5th in the strike shortened season) (Dan Duquette's first season and Hobson's last as manager.)
In 1995, the Sox had a new manager in Kennedy. The pitching looked weak, featuring a gimpy Clemens, widely seen to have lost his sparkle after a lackluster 93, and a good (but shortened) 94, a young Aaron Sele, and not much else. The staff was full of other people's cast-offs like Erik Hanson, Mike Maddux, Stan Belinda, Rheal Cormier, but we did have Ken Ryan in the bullpen. Offensively, Vaughn, Valentin, Naehring were in their primes. Greenwell was old but decent. DD had picked up some kid named Troy O'Leary, and signed the even-then-scandalous Canseco from TX to DH. So in some ways, it was what the current incarnation of the Sox was supposed to be - probably a good offense, some potentially good pitchers, but a weak rotation full of question marks, and a very unimpressive bullpen. (And Clemens was injured to start the season - wouldn't be back till June, when he was not dominant at all.)
Wakefield had done well for the Pirates in '92, but had lost his touch in '93. By '94, the Pirates had lost confidence in him and sent him to AAA, where he turned in a 5.15, 5.84 ERA season). In 95, as a 28 year old who hadn't been effective (arguably) for two years, he started 4 games for Pawtucket with a 2.5 ERA. He was called up and started his first game for the Sox on May 27th, and it's a fair bet to say, prior to the game, he was completely unheralded, and most likely seen as a stopgap starter. By Aug. 14 (to cherry pick) he was 14-1 with a 1.65 ERA.
I think the correct word to describe Wakefield's effect in June, July, and early August was "euphoria." The Sox (without Clemens) were riding the coat-tails of a trick-pitch specialist, a scrapheap ace, who hadn't been on anyone's radar for a couple of years. It's not like Wakefield was singlehandedly responsible for the season; the Sox were 16-10 when they called Wakefield up, 3 games up on Detroit, and 3.5 up on the Yankees, but their starting pitching to date was: Sele, Cormier, Hanson, Frankie Rodriguez, Vaughn Eshelman, and Zane Smith. You had the distinct feeling the wheels could come off. But Wakefield was implausibly unstoppable, and by Aug. 14, they were 9 games up on NY. While Wakefield did fade toward the end of the season, we were clearly headed to a pennant.
I was around for Clemens' 86, 88 and 90 campaigns, but with the exception of some of Pedro's seasons, I honestly can't remember the sort giddy-glee that surrounded Wakefield's '95 starts. I'm not sure why it was that way. The newspapers were full of knuckleball articles and speculation on his future and career. Everyone looked forward to the next Wakefield start. If he had the same stats at any other time, it may not have been the same. He really was a scrapheap ace after the strike season. In some ways he also symbolized the end of the awful early '90s teams. He was also a kind of "everyman ace" - in the sense that he relied on a skill-pitch, rather than a "physical prowess pitch" (if one can make that kind of distinction.)
Anyway, that's my nomination. It was so quirky and unexpected, I think it won a lot of people back to the Sox/baseball, post-strike.
Amen. What balls it took for Varitek to call it and Lowe to throw it. With Lowe that pitch often broke on the same plane -- if he misses his spot by 3 inches over the plate, Long drives it. If he misses by three inches inside, it's ball 4 and likely game, set and match.AlNipper49 said:
I remember screaming with joy.
Hank Scorpio said:
Remember him yelling at Farrell to stay in the game (WS game 6), Farrell relenting, Lackey giving up another baserunner, and it all somehow seeming endearing? Entirely bizarre.
Have to go with Keith Foulke during the '04 ALCS/World Series. From Game 4 of the ALCS until he threw the clinching pitch in the World Series, he pitched 10 scoreless innings in some of the highest-leverage situations imaginable. The Game 4/5/6 stretch where he threw 5 innings in 48 hours across three games without allowing a run was probably the most under-appreciated contribution to the 2004 championship, at least with the average Sox fan. It wasn't always pretty, as he did walk a half dozen batters, but the results - 10 IP, 0 ER, 7 games finished, 7 wins for the Red Sox - were spectacular. That stretch might've sapped Foulke for ever after, as he never was the same guy going forward.
He Who Shall Not Be Named's 20k performance was the best single game I've seen live, but Foulke's 04 postseason takes the cake for me. Stakes couldn't have been higher and it effectively ended his career. 04 changed the way I viewed sports, so in hindsight it takes on a greater relevance for me.
For one of my favorites I'm going to go with a relief performance I will always remember just for the wow, dominance factor. Very early in 2007 vs TEX. http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TEX/TEX200704080.shtml Paps came in with 1 out in the 8th, first and third situation up one run, got M Young and Teixeira to end the inning, then had a 1-2-3 ninth. For me it really signaled his dominance that would last the season, and that Tito would bring him in in the 8th if needed. For 2007 at least, it was his highest WPA performance of the year, at 0.546.
Then there was a game on 8/16/2012 where Clay had an immaculate inning- which was just a footnote in the game but very cool to see. It also fits here because the only other Sox to accomplish that feat was... Pedro in 2002.
Then there was a game on 8/16/2012 where Clay had an immaculate inning- which was just a footnote in the game but very cool to see. It also fits here because the only other Sox to accomplish that feat was... Pedro in 2002.
I'm not going to quote Romine's post, but he made a good call with Wakefield in 1995, and I'll add a specific game: his second start for the Red Sox.
His first start was at the Angels and he pitched seven innings of one-run ball on May 27 in a 12-1 win.
On May 30 on two days rest(!) he pitched in Oakland. He went seven innings gave up no runs and Boston won 1-0. He saved the staff and ultimately the season. He was incredible.
His first start was at the Angels and he pitched seven innings of one-run ball on May 27 in a 12-1 win.
On May 30 on two days rest(!) he pitched in Oakland. He went seven innings gave up no runs and Boston won 1-0. He saved the staff and ultimately the season. He was incredible.
Gator4MVP88 said:
Cool.
Clemens did it for Toronto, against the Sox, K'ing Nomar, Valentin, and Vaughn on 9 pitches.
I was there, so I'll nominate the most exciting baseball experience of my childhood, quickly ruined by the events of that Monday.
Eck and Tiant on the last two days of the 1978 regular season with back-to-back CG's. Eck 5 h, 1 r, Tiant 2 h, 0 r.... 4:20 combined time for the two games. Eck tossed 268 innings that season. How times have changed!
Eck and Tiant on the last two days of the 1978 regular season with back-to-back CG's. Eck 5 h, 1 r, Tiant 2 h, 0 r.... 4:20 combined time for the two games. Eck tossed 268 innings that season. How times have changed!
I remember that game very well. Pap came running off the mound after the 8th, pointing at Tek and screaming, "Great job! Great job!" As if Tek had done the heavy lifting by doing all the thinking.Gator4MVP88 said:
(Hmm, Beckett did used to refer to Pap as a dumb Mississippi redneck. Affectionately, I'm sure.)
Beckett should talk. So, the pecking order for states/rednecks in that part of the south is something like Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi?HriniakPosterChild said:
Nomo nono.
4 April 2001 @ Baltimore.
That one always sticks in my memory. Schilling's big games and Clemens 20K are up there for me too, but the Nomo game was a great way to start the year.
4 April 2001 @ Baltimore.
That one always sticks in my memory. Schilling's big games and Clemens 20K are up there for me too, but the Nomo game was a great way to start the year.
Rovin Romine said:
I never really gave it much thought, but prior to the 1995 season (I was 12), I was more of a fan of good teams and good players. I knew the Red Sox were terrible, and openly rooted for stars like Jeff Bagwell and Frank Thomas. At one point in my childhood, I disappointed a couple of uncles by proclaiming the A's and Jays were my favorite teams, because they won the most. I remember booing Jack Clark at Fenway, because he had a bad batting average. The first time I was legitimately excited to root for the Red Sox was the day they signed Jose Canseco (who wound up having two VERY good seasons here, despite being much maligned).
Wakefield, I think, to an extent sealed the deal for me. Getting John Valentin's autograph on the day he went 5 for 5 with 3 HR against Seattle in early June while I was at Fenway also helped. But Wake in 1995 was that "hook" that made every fifth game "must see TV".
Shawn,to be honest, at 80 my memory has become dreams within dreams with a soupçon, of reality in a seamless fashion but El Tigre is my choice...
Life on the line ...hand the ball to Luis...
In 75 ,at Fenway, The Baby Bull (Cepeda) knowing Luis was long in the tooth....yelled out to Luis,"hey old man throw me your fastball Luis did, Cepeda swung ,too late.
I know his betters but I'll take the old magic spin man...
Life on the line ...hand the ball to Luis...
In 75 ,at Fenway, The Baby Bull (Cepeda) knowing Luis was long in the tooth....yelled out to Luis,"hey old man throw me your fastball Luis did, Cepeda swung ,too late.
I know his betters but I'll take the old magic spin man...
Tops for me will always be Pedro's Game 5 against Cleveland and then pretty much everyone who pitched in Games 4-7 in '04. But one of my fave less talked about games was this one from June 1986. The Sox had swept the mfy at the stadium a week earlier, the Yanks were one game away from returning the favor at Fenway. Leaving the park after the 2nd game, the scoreboard listed "??????" as the Sox starter for the next game. Nip came off the DL weeks ahead of schedule and gutted out 7 innings on one leg to get the W....and the icing on the cake was Sambito picking off Rickey in the 9th before getting Griffey Sr. to fly out to end the game. That started a 6 game win streak for the Sox and the division race only got tighter than 5 games a couple times the rest of the way.
Another game I think about often - I always thought Ramon's performance in Game 2 against the mfy in '99 was terrific even tho he came up a bit short in the end - Pedro definitely got some of his warrior heart from his big bro who fought like a champ that day. That game probably had the same effect on Ramon's career as '04 did on Foulke's too, as Jimy left him out there for 120+ pitches in just his 6th start back from shoulder surgery.
Another game I think about often - I always thought Ramon's performance in Game 2 against the mfy in '99 was terrific even tho he came up a bit short in the end - Pedro definitely got some of his warrior heart from his big bro who fought like a champ that day. That game probably had the same effect on Ramon's career as '04 did on Foulke's too, as Jimy left him out there for 120+ pitches in just his 6th start back from shoulder surgery.
I was standing behind the Sox dugout at Tiger Stadium in September of '96 when Clemens struck out Travis Fryman for his 20th K. I had a good look all night, and he didn't get some calls that could've been. Could've been 21 or 22.....just an unbelievable performance.....
Hurst was my favorite till Pedro. A lot of the great games he pitched seem to have merged in my memory, but I definitely recall this one, especially his two-armed salute after the final K to end the game. It clinched a tie for the division with about a week to play. Since I was pretty young in 1975, this was the first time I was really able to enjoy the Sox making the playoffs. From here he was on fire all the way through October.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS198609270.shtml
But yeah, this game is probably more important. I think I'll sit and watch it now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dpCJP5zQnc
http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS198609270.shtml
But yeah, this game is probably more important. I think I'll sit and watch it now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dpCJP5zQnc
For me, the Clemens April 1986 20K game was amazing. It felt like we finally had a big-time pitcher, even if it was the weak-hitting Mariners.
I listened to the game on the radio and remember being so excited when Baylor dropped the foul popup because it gave Roger a chance for another K.
I know things turned ugly after he left, but his pitching from 86-91 was incredible. He was basically jobbed out of the Cy Young Award in 1990, meaning he should have won 4 Cy Young awards in a Red Sox uniform in a six-year span.
I listened to the game on the radio and remember being so excited when Baylor dropped the foul popup because it gave Roger a chance for another K.
I know things turned ugly after he left, but his pitching from 86-91 was incredible. He was basically jobbed out of the Cy Young Award in 1990, meaning he should have won 4 Cy Young awards in a Red Sox uniform in a six-year span.
Should have won that World Series (in the all time no shit Dick Tracy category).chrisfont9 said:
Yeah, well, we got Schiraldi'd, but even so, if MLB had any stones they'd have stuck with Hurst for MVP. What did Knight do besides run around the bases?Al Zarilla said:
Schiraldi was victim of some cheap hits in game 6 though. Just noticed that he pitched for the Mets in '84 and '85. Did I know that at one time and forgot about it from grief? Embedded Metser? Metsonian?chrisfont9 said:
Al Zarilla said:
Read Pearlman's The Bad Guys Won, which is the story from the NYM perspective, and the story is that they knew he could be beaten, which is why they traded him. (Of course, any pitcher can be beaten, but it's an entertaining book for the offseason.)
Derek Lowe Game 5 2003 against the A's--1 pitch
Edit: hadn't read the thread all the way through. Still I probably see that pitch more clearly in my mind than any other called strike in baseball history.
Edit: hadn't read the thread all the way through. Still I probably see that pitch more clearly in my mind than any other called strike in baseball history.
Lot of very memorable moments here, but I have to pick Lowe in G7 2004 ALCS. IMHO, that was not only the biggest game in Red Sox history, but you can argue it was the most important in MLB history, and perhaps in American sports annals. It's up there. It changed everything.
And Lowe, on just 2 days rest, was absolutely fucking nails. The pressure was off the scale, and he came through.
And Lowe, on just 2 days rest, was absolutely fucking nails. The pressure was off the scale, and he came through.
I will give Roger some credit, for his pre darkside days.http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/TOR/TOR199008250.shtml
Jays had crept to within two games. He shut them out on 5 hits.
He was nails that year. get's lost because the A's beat him. That games was part of a streak of 9 starts where ha gave up a total of 7 runs.
Jays had crept to within two games. He shut them out on 5 hits.
He was nails that year. get's lost because the A's beat him. That games was part of a streak of 9 starts where ha gave up a total of 7 runs.
Great idea for a thread!
Babe Ruth should be high up on this list, and for multiple games. Hope I get these numbers correct. In 1916,he beat the great Walter Johnson 1-0 in 13 innings! In the same year, he pitched a complete game 14-inning 2-1 victory in the wrold series, a record that still stands for longest ws complete game. In the 1918 world series, he had those 29 1/2 scoreless innings that stood as a record for a long time.
I'll also throw in Dave Morehead's 1965 no-hitter for interest simply as a reminder of how shockingly weak a fan base this franchise once had because it was in front of only 1200 Fenway fans. It was memorable - probably most memorable - for that reason and when mentioned, is always along with his piss-poor tunrout
Babe Ruth should be high up on this list, and for multiple games. Hope I get these numbers correct. In 1916,he beat the great Walter Johnson 1-0 in 13 innings! In the same year, he pitched a complete game 14-inning 2-1 victory in the wrold series, a record that still stands for longest ws complete game. In the 1918 world series, he had those 29 1/2 scoreless innings that stood as a record for a long time.
I'll also throw in Dave Morehead's 1965 no-hitter for interest simply as a reminder of how shockingly weak a fan base this franchise once had because it was in front of only 1200 Fenway fans. It was memorable - probably most memorable - for that reason and when mentioned, is always along with his piss-poor tunrout
But no one knew he was going to throw it or more people would have shown up.RoDaddy said:
The good thing back then of course is you could get cheap tickets for good seats any time (they tell me). 1967 must have been a hoot.
Schilling in Game 6 has already been mentioned. It's hard to top that one, in my view. I think Game 2 against the Cards deserves a lot of love, too. His foot just as shredded by the time Game 2 rolled around and if anything, after having survived Game 6, his Game 2 performance was even more uncanny.
But here's a nod to Josh Beckett in Game 5 of the 2007 ALCS. The Sox were down 3-1 in games at the time, as we know.
Beckett was immense. 8 innings. 11 Ks, 1 BB, 5 hits. 109 pitches. On the road. The Sox won 7-1 but it was 2-1 after 6 innings, meaning he was pitching in a very close game until the Sox broke it open in the final three frames.
Beckett was also amazing in Game 1 of the World Series that year. The first inning set the tone for the series, as the Sox jumped on Francis for 3 runs and Beckett struck out the side.
But here's a nod to Josh Beckett in Game 5 of the 2007 ALCS. The Sox were down 3-1 in games at the time, as we know.
Beckett was immense. 8 innings. 11 Ks, 1 BB, 5 hits. 109 pitches. On the road. The Sox won 7-1 but it was 2-1 after 6 innings, meaning he was pitching in a very close game until the Sox broke it open in the final three frames.
Beckett was also amazing in Game 1 of the World Series that year. The first inning set the tone for the series, as the Sox jumped on Francis for 3 runs and Beckett struck out the side.