Nate Solder out for the season

Seels

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JerBear said:
Which LTs would you prefer to Solder over the past 2 years?

He makes a few boneheaded mistakes every season but he's solid to excellent outside those plays.
Honestly like at least 10. Without looking at rosters, TSmith, Whitworth, Thomas, Staley, Penn, Glenn, TWilliams. Probably a few others.
 

amarshal2

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Put me in the camp of being curious if they try Vollmer at LT.  I know he hasn't played there in forever but there's a lot of the season left.  If it takes him a little while to make the adjustment it's still worth it to have the stronger tackle on the left side when it counts.  Vollmer is good enough to be within the range of an average LT and Cannon is good enough to be within the range of an average RT (but he's a below average LT).  That's a rare spot to be in for a team who lost an above average starter if they can make it work.  
 

DaveRoberts'Shoes

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Marciano490 said:
 
 
 
Is this longer than other tears?  I tore a pec and was back in 2 months, though the ortho said I was lucky that it was just muscle tearing from muscle as opposed to off the joint or tendon, which would've required much more convalescence.  Biceps never tear down the middle, but always from the joint?
Sounds like you had a musculotendinous tear, which just requires rest and no surgery.  I had the same thing in both arms and look how awesome I am .  If you had torn it off the bone (as Solder did with his biceps, which is always the case), you would have had surgery, been in a sling for 6 weeks, no lifting more than 5 pounds for three months, and no benching for 6.
 
On a non-medical note, while it sucks to lose any starter to any injury, I do feel like the Pats can work around this relatively effectively.
 
But what do I know, I'm just a goddamn orthopedic surgeon.
 

Marciano490

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Yeah sounds correct. I just remember asking the doctor if surgery would speed up recovery and the doctor told me that itd be like trying to stitch hamburger meat together.
 

Super Nomario

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
That's true, but he did workout at guard for a stretch recently, so I think he'd be flexible enough to move across the line I'd needed. I really hate the idea of Cannon on Brady's blindside. He may get Brady killed.
Cannon might be a problem at LT, but at least Vollmer is solid at RT. If you move him, you could end up with questions at both OT spots. I think you leave Vollmer where he is and slide protection / chip / line up a TE on the left side more if you need to.
 
Cannon's liabilities might show up more in the run and screen game; he's not nearly as athletic as Solder. They haven't run the ball terribly much in 2015, but I was kind of hoping they could in some matchups if they wanted to. That might be tough to do now.
 

Toe Nash

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Folks massively underrate the quality of their team's OL and DBs.  We expect Chandler to routinely get pressure on LTs and we expect Edelman to have about a 100 yards but then heaven forbid our corner gives up a hundred yards or Justin Houston/Khalil Mack/Hardy get some pressure on our QB.
They also underrate the importance of Brady getting the ball out quickly.
 
Peyton Manning consistently takes near the fewest sacks in the league and it's not because he's hard to tackle or has had a great OL for his entire career.
 
Edit: A good example: Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007. Cassel led the league in sacks taken in 2008 with 47 with most of the same offensive line personnel. Then Brady took 16 in 2009.
 

MarcSullivaFan

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Super Nomario said:
Cannon might be a problem at LT, but at least Vollmer is solid at RT. If you move him, you could end up with questions at both OT spots. I think you leave Vollmer where he is and slide protection / chip / line up a TE on the left side more if you need to.
 
Cannon's liabilities might show up more in the run and screen game; he's not nearly as athletic as Solder. They haven't run the ball terribly much in 2015, but I was kind of hoping they could in some matchups if they wanted to. That might be tough to do now.
FWIW, FO has them as the best rushing offense in football by DVOA. Also, Lewis is averaging 5.0 y/a and Blount is at 4.7.

But, as you point out, it hasn't been a huge part of the offense yet. Overall, they are only 23rd in rushing yards and 27th in attempts.

They've run more successfully recently: the past two games they've rushed for 234 yards on 55 attempts (including non-RB attempts), after rushing for only 136 yards on 39 attempts in the first two games.

I haven't checked the game logs to see when they're running. My impression is that it's been more clock-killing/change of pace than an integral part of the offensive game plan. That's fine so long as the quick passing game is working--but I agree that it's troubling to think about Plan B when the current approach is stymied. Denver in particular seems like a game in which running early could be critical, considering how quickly that pass rush gets to the QB.
 

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Toe Nash said:
They also underrate the importance of Brady getting the ball out quickly.
 
Peyton Manning consistently takes near the fewest sacks in the league and it's not because he's hard to tackle or has had a great OL for his entire career.
 
Edit: A good example: Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007. Cassel led the league in sacks taken in 2008 with 47 with most of the same offensive line personnel. Then Brady took 16 in 2009.
This is hugely important.

Take this Sunday for example: "In the first half, Brady averaged 2.19 seconds from snap-to-attempt, but that number went down to an average of 1.78 seconds in the second half. It’s no surprise the Patriots offense scored touchdowns on their first two possessions of the second half, compared to not scoring a touchdown until their fifth offensive series of the game."

http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/10/12/tom-brady-adjustment-with-snap-to-throw-time-keys-win-over-cowboys/

Brady's average this season remains below 2 seconds. It's nearly impossible to get to a QB in 1.78 seconds no matter who is at LT.

The issue, of course, is against defenses that can play man-press and otherwise prevent those quick throws. I don't think the Colts are that team, but I sure hope they have the line sorted out by the time the Pats head to Denver.
 

Byrdbrain

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So Doug Kyed tweeted out that Vollmer was at LT and Canon was at RT but when I went to copy it the tweet was gone.
I was kind of questioning my sanity but then I heard the producer from Zo and Bertrand say the same thing.
 
So did Kyed get told to take it down because it was super secret, was he just wrong? Who the hell knows.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Super Nomario said:
Cannon might be a problem at LT, but at least Vollmer is solid at RT. If you move him, you could end up with questions at both OT spots. I think you leave Vollmer where he is and slide protection / chip / line up a TE on the left side more if you need to.
 
Cannon's liabilities might show up more in the run and screen game; he's not nearly as athletic as Solder. They haven't run the ball terribly much in 2015, but I was kind of hoping they could in some matchups if they wanted to. That might be tough to do now.
 
I think that the fundamentals of LT vs RT are pretty similar. There is obviously some of the small intricacies that need to be reworked (opposite first step, opposite body angle), as well as some of the key tasks, but I think Vollmer would slide over to the LT and be perfectly suitable. 
 
I agree that Cannon's lack of athleticism will hurt in the screen/run game, but it also hurts in the pass game. Slow foot work against the opponents best pass rusher is a nightmare. Leaving the TE in to help block kind of neuters what the team does. It means either losing Gronk on passing routes, or going 2 TE/2 WR/1RB (or 2TE/3WR), and that hasn't really been their strong suit this year. They've certainly worked single back on occasion, but leaving a TE in or forcing the RB to stay home goes pretty counter to everything their passing offense is this year.
 

Super Nomario

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Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I think that the fundamentals of LT vs RT are pretty similar. There is obviously some of the small intricacies that need to be reworked (opposite first step, opposite body angle), as well as some of the key tasks, but I think Vollmer would slide over to the LT and be perfectly suitable. 
Maybe. They're going to have to try Vollmer in practice at LT since they don't have anyone else if Cannon gets hurt, so they can see how that goes.
 
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
I agree that Cannon's lack of athleticism will hurt in the screen/run game, but it also hurts in the pass game. Slow foot work against the opponents best pass rusher is a nightmare.
Sure, but some of the best pass rushers are on the other side. Von Miller, J.J. Watt, and Cameron Wake typically line up on the RT. If Cannon terrifies you on the left side, I don't know how you'd feel great about him over on the right.
 
Kenny F'ing Powers said:
Leaving the TE in to help block kind of neuters what the team does. It means either losing Gronk on passing routes, or going 2 TE/2 WR/1RB (or 2TE/3WR), and that hasn't really been their strong suit this year. They've certainly worked single back on occasion, but leaving a TE in or forcing the RB to stay home goes pretty counter to everything their passing offense is this year.
I agree, but it's a tradeoff. If Cannon is getting killed, no matter where he's lining up, they'll have to do something.
 

tims4wins

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Let's keep in mind that (per Football Outsiders) Cannon has logged nearly half of the offensive snaps this year - 49.7%. So he has already gotten a ton of playing time and while he may have had some bad plays here and there, overall it clearly hasn't hurt the offense much.
 

SumnerH

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Toe Nash said:
They also underrate the importance of Brady getting the ball out quickly.
 
Peyton Manning consistently takes near the fewest sacks in the league and it's not because he's hard to tackle or has had a great OL for his entire career.
 
Edit: A good example: Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007. Cassel led the league in sacks taken in 2008 with 47 with most of the same offensive line personnel. Then Brady took 16 in 2009.
And the Colts:
2009: Manning takes 10 sacks
2010: Manning takes 16 sacks
2011: Manning is out injured, Colts QBs take 35 sacks.
 

singaporesoxfan

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One random factoid about Solder being out - this means when the Patriots, likely the best offense in football, lines up on offense, they have no one who was a first rounder.
 

mauf

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JerBear said:
Which LTs would you prefer to Solder over the past 2 years?

He makes a few boneheaded mistakes every season but he's solid to excellent outside those plays.
 
I'm not sure Solder's 2013 performance is relevant -- he wasn't that guy last season, and the first 3-4 games of this year looked like more of the same.
 
This bit from Bleacher Report rated Solder 21st in the league among LTs, with below-average pass blocking partly offset by good run blocking. That sounds about right to me.
 
My main concern here is the effect on depth -- if the Pats' remaining tackles stay healthy, they'll be OK without Solder, but one more injury could put them in a tough spot.
 

JohnnyK

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I think this is a bigger deal than people make it out to be because a tackle rotation of Vollmer/Cannon/Fleming (I'd wager they bring him up before the Indy game) to me looks much more vulnerable than the group from the first few games of the season. 
Solder hasn't been great and at times pretty awful, but that's when they could rotate Cannon in; now it'll be Fleming, and they probably want Vollmer to play more snaps too.
 
Maybe they should give Matt Light a call?
 

wiffleballhero

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Maybe this is misplaced here, but the Pats seemed to have signed someone named Brennan Williams to the practice squad to bolster the OL.
 
6'6'' 310 North Carolina 2013
 

NickEsasky

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He went to my HS. First guy who played there to make it to the NFL. We were not a football powerhouse. 
 

Super Nomario

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wiffleballhero said:
Maybe this is misplaced here, but the Pats seemed to have signed someone named Brennan Williams to the practice squad to bolster the OL.
 
6'6'' 310 North Carolina 2013
He was a third-round pick just two years ago (taken two picks before Duron Harmon) but has never suited up in the NFL due to injuries.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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wiffleballhero said:
Maybe this is misplaced here, but the Pats seemed to have signed someone named Brennan Williams to the practice squad to bolster the OL.
 
6'6'' 310 North Carolina 2013
Son of former Patriot Brent Williams, who was on the squad from 1986-1993

Brennan Williams, 24, entered the NFL as a third-round draft choice of the Texans (89th overall) in 2013 and spent his rookie year on season-ending injured reserve. He was released by the Texans on July 21, 2014, was out of football last season and went to training camp with the Jaguars in 2015.
 
Born in Easton, Massachusetts, he attended Catholic Memorial High School and then the University of North Carolina.
 

Otto

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Moderately interesting note is that he wasn't brought in via "tryout," which is the designation for players who work out for coaches to evaluate.  He was a "visit," which means just a physical.  Re-reading that, moderately interesting may be overstatement.
 

Super Nomario

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Otto said:
Moderately interesting note is that he wasn't brought in via "tryout," which is the designation for players who work out for coaches to evaluate.  He was a "visit," which means just a physical.  Re-reading that, moderately interesting may be overstatement.
It might be one of those "they like him if he's healthy" kind of things. Kyed posted an image of part of the Pats' draft board from 2013 and they apparently had a high grade (a 7, while Harmon had just a 5.5) on Williams coming out of UNC:
 

 
They also still have one PS spot open after promoting King and Fleming recently, so this is low investment / low risk. They get a chance to kick the tires on Williams for a couple weeks and can cut him if they don't see much.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Awful news indeed. @jeffphowe: Awful news. Nate Solder announced tonight his infant son, Hudson, has kidney cancer. He has completed a few rounds of chemotherapy.
 
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Makes me oddly glad Nate is on IR - that he can be completely present for his son and family is profoundly more important than anything else. Really, it's the only thing he should be doing. Bless them all. Fuck.
 

dbn

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Shit, that's awful. Cancer sucks, full stop - but when a child has it, it's so much more awful.
 

LogansDad

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Fuck, this news is awful. I know posting in an internet thread doesn't really make a difference, but here's hoping he can get through this.
 

Ralphwiggum

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It's cliche but man that really puts everything in perspective. Not only the silly kids games that adults play that take up so much of our time and that we all sometimes care about too much, but the rest of life's problems.

Fight on little Solder.
 

bakahump

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Solder had Testy cancer right?

Does the timeline workout that he had it about the same time this guy was conceived?

Is it even possible to for cancer to spread to an unborn child like that? (Like a women with Ovarian cancer? Or Nate with Testicular?)

I know it sounds stupid but jezus that a weird coincidence.
 

fiskful of dollars

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Awful news. But my goodness what a cutie! I wonder if this is a Wilm's tumor…pretty rare type of pediatric kidney cancer. Most common renal cancer in kids but rare overall. Prognosis is generally favorable so fingers crossed for the Solder's.