National Celtics discourse
- Thread starter RorschachsMask
- Start date
Don't know how far we want to go down this road in this thread, but... anyone have any guess why conditioning and laziness is such a big talking point with Zion? Or why it was with Shaq back in the day? And why it isn't with Luka?
I feel like Ive heard a ton of discussion about Luka's conditioning over the past few years admittedly not as much as Zion (I cant speak to the Shaq stuff). I realize there may be other factors at play, "further down the road" so to speak, but Im wondering if Luka's conditioning isn't discussed as much simply because he plays a lot more? In his 2nd year he played 61 games, but otherwise has been between 65-71. Combined with playoffs he's played a total of 447 games in his 6 years. Zion is at 184 over 4 seasons.
Coach Thorpe with an article about Luka's defense here: The Mavericks’ weak point: Luka’s defense - by CoachThorpe (truehoop.com). I don't subscribe; maybe someone does here?
I presume the film breakdown is everything we've been posting the last couple of days. I do kind of wonder if he talks about Luka's conditioning.
I presume the film breakdown is everything we've been posting the last couple of days. I do kind of wonder if he talks about Luka's conditioning.
For Zion, it's easy - he's missed over 200 games in his 5 year career, and has never played in the playoffs (even though his team has been there twice since he was drafted). His career has been a giant disappointment thus far, and it's clearly some combination of conditioning, laziness, injury and bad luck (the reports about him haven't been great). It'd be one thing if he were Greg Oden who only looked ok when he played, but Zion plays like a top 20 player (with a higher ceiling than that) when he's actually on the court. No one would ever call Luka's career disappointing, even with his fairly large flaws.
Shaq, I can't say. I remember him getting hit for not focusing on basketball and not taking his body seriously, but I don't know exactly how early that started. When he was Luka's age, he had just finished his first season in LA (and had been to the finals already with Orlando).
After the great Russell Westrbook debates of the 2010s, I thought we were all past the discussion point of triple doubles equaling greatness, but man I see a lot of people basically saying that Luka got a triple double so he really couldn't be doing any more to help his team win.
I don’t really enjoy Luka as a player and agree with most everything being raised here but it’s not like if Luka suddenly became Jrue on defense for the rest of the series that it would make a tremendous difference. He’s still playing with a playoff ghost and several random dudes. Dallas isn’t the team this year.
When Luka made two of his one footed threes.. he hopped up and down on one leg with his hands in the air.. perhaps that was him showing us he was injured with an homage to the karate kid?
Shaq was pilloried far more when he was making terrible movies and rapping. Kobe publically shamed him for being out of shape and as we have seen the public forgave Kobe for stuff, more than Shaq. Zion is a physical freak and may have the best vertical jump recorded by an NBA player so criticizing the physical prep of perhaps the best athlete ever would have been out of place. The sharp decline from a Kryptonian to Big Baby Davis (an exaggeration for effect) was alarming. I will go as far to say if Shaq had an above average work ethic he would be the undisputed GOAT right now. I am on record as anti-Kobe, but Shaq did everything to make peace, except work out more. People, coaches, reporters, hate the talented guy who doesn't train (unless he hit homers for the Yankees then he was just colorful) as squandering talent.
The reverse is true of American stars, Bird, Kobe, MJ, Magic, KD, Curry, were routinely praised for their off season effort. NBA has a bit followed the NHL narrative Americans are tough and physical Euros are smart and skilled.
There is an easy narrative that Euro players are skilled, smart, savants and not physical phenoms, or particularly tough. In hockey it is rare for Euro players to get credit for being physically tough. I don't think Genobli, Dirk, the Gasols, were ever praised for being in great shape, just for skill and creativity.
In a way this attitude is reflected in reality of the two types of basketball. American ball is fast paced aggressive dunk on somebody or find the three. You better be guarding the ball and blowing by guys or dunking and protecting the rim. Each of us can probably know a big kid who went to the next level just by getting in shape. The FIBA game is fast too, but based on passing, and the big guys are more skilled. Defence is more physical so strength can make up for lack of foot speed.
Isn’t Lee considered the better Head Coaching prospect? There is a reason why Lee is Mazzulla’s lead assistant and not Cassell. I don’t know the reason I’m not in the room but there’s reasons I’m sure.
Well, Lee actually got hired as a head coach by the Hornets, so af least one organization thought he was a much better prospect
The only reason Lee wouldn't be considered a better HC prospect is because...he's no longer a prospect. The Hornets hired him 5 weeks ago.
*edit - a beat too slow.
We're gonna have to remain this thread if things continue the way they are. "National Tatum discourse" seems a logical next step.
I wasn’t even the person who made the initial coaches statement lol. I just said Cassell as a half joke, I assumed he was talking about Cora.
I know this and Cassell is gone after The Finals too. I was referring to at the start of the season with Lee > Cassell and Lee being the top Asst.
This is no time to joke Mask!!! It’s game time in 20 minutes!! We are stressed!!!
Bud if you want to see a joke, Luka on defenseThis is no time to joke Mask!!! It’s game time in 20 minutes!! We are stressed!!!
wait, why is Cassell gone? It doesn’t look like he’s getting a head coaching job anywhere
There was a report that another team wanted to make him the highest paid assistant in the league. There wasn’t any follow up I saw on him accepting.
It is amazing the floodgates of people trying to get around the narratives now. Luka is getting murdered on the Ringer Live. Cowherd is claiming Brown and Tatum are top ten players in the league, comparing Brown to D Wade. It is amazing flipping around and seeing Boston finally getting their flowers.
Edit - Everyone is hitting on the maybe the Mavs were lucky to get here not the Celtics.
Edit - Everyone is hitting on the maybe the Mavs were lucky to get here not the Celtics.
It's going to take nothing less than a title to change the narrative around this Celtics team. Evidence is coming in that the narrative will indeed change overnight if they bring out the brooms on Friday.
Still can’t make this shit up. People on the media are losing their fucking minds when talking about this team.
View: https://twitter.com/marktitusshow/status/1801099280804991002?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
View: https://twitter.com/marktitusshow/status/1801099280804991002?s=46&t=IVL2VrlFgLlpc3mjGGto8Q
That was incredible. Finally someone called him a moron for trying to draw a charge with 5 fouls.
Yeah, that was as stark a takedown as I have heard on National TV. "Unacceptable performance", "a complete hole on D", "Will never win a banner unless he changes", etc, etc
Damn, he went after him in a way I haven’t heard any media member do.
Basically called him a baby who is costing his team with his attitude and demeanor towards refs. Said that coaches and team execs have begged him to change the way he acts.
Said that complaining about the refs when he’s the one who is making dumb decisions shows he’s not ready to be a champion. Also mentioned that his effort on defense is pathetic and isn’t championship worthy.
That had all the makings of Adam Silver going up to Windhorst and telling him to do that. The money gesture cannot have gone over well, and Windhorst brought up some "secret" info about the league having begged him to stop the shit on numerous occasions.
Fuck these front running NBA writers. Every one of them knew this shit about Luka’s defense and what his team thinks about his antics before this series started. But it’s not until the Mavs and Luka get curb stomped that they’re willing to say it.
The Mavs getting swept combined with someone in the national media finally taking him to task may actually prevent the auto MVP he was about to get next year.
There is a real chance Luka is not playing Game 4. I am sure the Mavs will be suggested to tell him the ribs are no good. Otherwise me might see the quickest foul out in NBA history if he doesn't get two techs before six fouls. After getting away with the take tackle and making the refs look like assholes the whole game for not Ting him... I think they had enough
Fwiw, Haralabob has been saying some negative things about Luka on Twitter for awhile, and he was obviously quite close to the situation.
The correct move from Dallas' POV is to bench him because of the "injury he has been playing through, which has clearly affected his performance on defense" or some other bullshit in a lame attempt to make more excuses for the losses.
Zidane had a lot more to back it up though.. and in fairness, as I recall, the guy he head butted said a slur about his mom or sister who had just passed... after fouling the shit out of him.